Almost a reloader...and 9mm accuracy ???


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Navy joe
September 22, 2003, 10:20 PM
Well, about three weeks ago I got my 550B set-up and running, cranked out 1000 rds of .45 in two different bullet weights since I had the components. First reloads ever, so far 200 have gone bang without incident. The load I'm liking is a 200gr LRN over 4.6 Titegroup, WLP, 1.210"OAL and taper crimp to .472. Works great, any thoughts? That was old lead I had, from here on out it will be plated or FMJ, tired of smoke.

Tonight I got my 9mm dies and such in so I stuffed 200 of a likely load and ran to the range. They ran perfect, very consistent recoil. Accuracy at 25 yds was not quite there as compared to Magtech factory which is very accurate in my gun. ???
The load was Berrys 115gr over 4.2 Titegroup, WSP, 1.150 OAL. Now it may be I just need to re-program my mind to a different recoil impulse before I see great results but if I want to tinker what to do? Some ideas I have are to:
-Bring the OAL out as much as I can, probably 1.165 would be max.
-Lighten up the crimp, I pulled one bullet down and measured it and it crushed to .351 in the crimp area which swelled other points to .356.
-Load a lot in same headstamp brass, this truly was a mixed bag.
-the powder charge is about right, much less and I won't make power factor. I may try some a little hotter.
-Do all of the above to one lot and try it.
Any others?

I know my long term fix but it involves Montana Gold bullets and VV N330 which I have to drive to get both, just seeing for now if I can make an accurate minor Pf load with cheap components. Right now it's the perfect IDPA load, very smooth for follow-up shots.

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WESHOOT2
September 23, 2003, 05:10 AM
NOT 'Titegroup'.

3N37 (if you must use a Vihta), Ramshot Silhouette, AA5, HS6.
NOT 'Berry's'.
Gold Dot, XTP, W-W /R-P FMJ, Zero.

WAY less crimp; crimp does NOT secure the bullet; case neck tension secures the bullet.

Case? IMI, W-W, Starline.

OAL? 1.150" sounds good, but you can vary it as you see fit, as long as you remember shortening OAL increases pressure.

And most of the time I use and recommend (we're talkin' non-social ammo) a 124-135g bullet.

caz223
September 23, 2003, 07:21 AM
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33063
My thread on 9mm accuracy.
Another vote for HS-6.
Back off on the crimp, esp. with plated bullets.
Also, if you don't have a lee carbide factory crimp die, get one today.
I'm sure that if you search here or at TFL, you'll find some good loads.
When you look at charge weights, you won't want to use HS-6.
Get over it.
You still get over 1000 loads per pound, and I can load my ammo for less than $4.00 a box.
I started loading the rainier 124 HP recently, to shoot at steel plate matches where FMJ isn't allowed.
That's still under $4.00 a box.
I use titegroup, but not for 9mm, I use titegroup for .45 colt.
Each bullet weight in each caliber has it's own sweet spot.
I use a burn rate chart, combined with the Lee powder dipper slider to figure a good powder for a certain caliber.
You want to fill the case with powder with the specified charge weight so that the powder just barely touches the base of the bullet.
I'll see if I can dig up an online burn rate chart.
http://www.lasc.ca/PowderBurnRateChart.htm
You notice three of the powders that WESHOOT2 mentioned at 29, 30, and 31.
That's the sweet spot for 9mm.
You can go all the way up to power pistol at number 22, and after that, they get a litttle too fast burning for my tastes. (For 124 grain 9mm.)
I tried slower powders, all the way down to blue dot, I didn't like it.
A lot of people try a lot of different powders, and if bullseye or blue dot works for them, that's fine, more power to you.
But for me, it's a balancing act.
Using a too fast burning powder doesn't fill up the case to the right level, if you fill the case that full, your gun would prolly kaboom.
If you use a too slow burning powder, you either don't have room in the case for a max charge, or the load burns dirty, or is too weak, or flat uses waaaay too much powder to get the job done.

Sorry for the long post, but it took me too long to learn what works, and I wasted a lot of good components making bad loads.

If I can help someone understand, then my struggle wasn't totally in vain.

HSMITH
September 23, 2003, 08:30 AM
I load Clays with 115 FMJ in 9mm a lot and it is ACCURATE for me in a CZ-75, but a Taurus 92 does not think a lot of the load. The 92 likes Blue Dot but the CZ does not. Neither really care for Power Pistol. They BOTH like Universal Clays and Super Field.

Guns are like people, every one is different. Load a hundred with every suitable powder you have or can borrow.

caz223
September 23, 2003, 08:49 AM
WSF, Universal clays, and unique come highly recommended for .40 s&w, among other calibers. I confess that I haven't tried WSF or universal clays for 9mm, but I can tell you that they do have quite a following in .40.
Matter of fact, some time back I think I heard on this forum or maybe another, that WSF is what winchester uses for some of their .40 loads.

Your loads makes sense to me, HSMITH.
Lighter bullets like faster powders.

caz223
September 23, 2003, 09:00 AM
Sorry, guys.
I assumed you were shooting 124s.
115s are another story.
WSF/Universal clays would prolly be a great powders for 115s.

Mikul
September 23, 2003, 10:54 AM
Lighten up on that crimp! I set the crimp die a smidge further back than the deepest setting that will not mark the bullet.

Plated bullets at high velocity can lose their plating. Look carefully at the holes if they're not round, you're pushing them too fast.

Your OAL should be fine as long as it feeds well.

I recommend Winchester Super-Field.

Jim Watson
September 23, 2003, 11:32 AM
Well, Joe, I think you summed it up in your last paragraph. Plated bullets are suitable for coarse shooting like IDPA. If you want real accuracy, get some Sierra JHPs. The MG and others may do as well, but Sierra is a known quantity. The only FMJ I got accuracy even close to JHP with was Nosler... which they do not list any more.

I see less effect from powder, but if you want to give it the best, use Vihtavouri. I have not shot any N330 but N340 did very well for me.

Navy joe
October 9, 2003, 07:37 PM
Well, thanks for the advice so far. All I had time to do so far was to back the crimp off and try one batch with .2gr less powder. Both were markedly more accurate than the heavy crimp loads. Ignition was noticably different with the lighter crimp.

Accuracy was as good or better than factory on my best day shooting so I think I'll keep this load for awhile, the idea being to keep cost down so I can burn more ammo. This puts me at $54/1000. I don't count my time since as a gov't employee I have time, but getting more money is next to impossible(no time for second job).

I thought this load might be a little light for Pf, but after knocking down steel in two matches I say I need not worry. I will get chronoed this weekend, I'm betting on 135. Think I need to back it down.

Zak Smith
October 9, 2003, 08:13 PM
FWIW, my standard 9x19 load is this

124gr West Coast plated RN,
4.2gr Titegroup,
"any" case and primer,
1.135" nominal.

Soft shooting, about 1060fps.

If you want something more "full power", go get some 3N37.

-z

P95Carry
October 9, 2003, 08:15 PM
Another vote here for Vhit N-340 .. good powder ... tho mine pushes a 125 grn home cast with 5.5 grns. Plenty acceptable accuracy and cycling.

C.R.Sam
October 10, 2003, 02:23 AM
200 rounds on first test batch of nines....WoW.

Whenever changing a componant or powder lot...
Like to load a dozen rounds each of several likely combinations.
Then test for accuracy and speed.
Log results of each test batch.

If find a winner in the litter...
Then load up a bunch.

Sam

Navy joe
October 10, 2003, 09:40 AM
Yeah, 200 was a little excessive, but I had a plan. Plan was if they were too light I'd use them for malfunction practice. I guess I'm now one of those non-artisan handle yankin' monkey progressive reloaders and until I start stuffing my 6.5jap I see no point in a single stage press or low volume anything. :D

Damon of Baltimore
October 11, 2003, 01:06 AM
My Ruger KP95 is very accurate and reliable. My favorite load is:
124gr Rainier Flat Points over 3.7gr of bullseye in S&B brass with F100 primers OAL-1.075 with a semi heavy crimp(maybe I will try a lighter crimp too, although I am getting excellent accuracy now). Be forewarned though... It is a very dirty load!!

Damon

Navy joe
October 12, 2003, 09:49 PM
Well, I just can't stand myself. I have now stuffed 2K of these things and 1K has been shot this week. Ran 200+ in a match today, flawless.
Interestingly enough it was my first access to a chrono for this load, always nice to bet the match on something unproven right?

Well,
Shot #1 1130fps
#2 1132
#3 1132

I'd like to take this opportunity to say how much I love a Dillon powder system, very consistent. With the bullet weighing114.9 my Pf was 129.9. I need to up this a little for cold weather, was about 65 at time of chrono. This load drops steel much better than that Pf would indicate, I'm thinking it's because the bullet is softer than jacketed and spends more energy deforming on the steel and less energy flying off to parts unknown.

Fed168
October 12, 2003, 11:15 PM
My load, which has worked for myself and a couple other shooters in my league who finished ahead of me:

115 grain hollow base Winchester FMJ, or a 121 grain Hornady HAP
3.6-3.8 grains of Titegroup

This round will hold the X and 10 ring at 25 yards.

C.R.Sam
October 13, 2003, 12:00 AM
Nice consistancy there Navy Joe.

Sam

GooseGestapo
October 17, 2003, 04:01 PM
Like another poster said, the Berry's are good for "Course" accuracy.
For match grade accuracy, either the mentioned 115gr Sierra,or Hornady 115XTP, Nosler 115 JHP, Montana Gold 115 JHP or Zero 115 JHP, will all give superior accuracy. I use 4.4gr of TiteGroup and found accuracy to be on par with either 5.1 Clays Univ. or 5.3 WinSuperField.

Brass is a fickle issue with 9mm.
I only use Federal or Starline (various proprietary head stamps) for "Match" loads, particulary the Federal. Win. is relegated for short range and practice. Rest is tossed into "giveaway bin".

I've found powder choice to be least significant issue for 9mm accuracy, only slightly ahead of primers for insignificance. Most critical is bullet, and then brass and most important is "HOW" it all is put together.

And, of course if your gun is only capable of ~3" at 25yds, all this is MOOT. Just throw some plated/fmj's together and if they cycle and fire, just shoot them. Spending $$$ on premium bullets/brass, ect. is only "gilding the lily".

If you like the Dillon system, thank Dick Lee; Dillon licenses the patent from Lee.

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