[kry_90]

in just about every action shooting movie
there always many people in the movies using two handguns at the same time
of course they have perfect aim and apparently never have to reload
while i know this is far from realistic
I'm just wondering if there is any tactical or realistic benefits
from using two handguns at the same time
i see the reason why some one would carry two handguns
one for a back up or something
but as far as shooting two handguns at the same time
seems very unrealistic

[The Lone Haranguer]

Movie guns fire blanks and have no recoil. Particularly in scenes where there is a lot of flying through the air, rolling on the ground, etc. there is often a stunt double performing the "shooting" instead of the actor. In many cases nowadays a human does not even wield the guns; everything is done by CGI.

There is validity to the technique of carrying a matched pair of guns and transitioning to the other one when the first is shot empty. Such a tactic is often called a "<fill in name of large American city here> reload."

[dagger dog]

:DYeah I think you're right , heck Roy and Gene both carried double rigs but I never saw either one shoot them both at the same time:D

[Kman]

Heck, Shane didn't need two guns.

[Lurp]

Well if they only have one gun what are you suppossed to do with the other hand while diving through the air shooting? :D

[Diamondback6]

Well, for me having a second loaded iron in the other hand means I can "reload" faster by shifting my attention to the weak-hand gun and continuing the engagement, or if I need suppression-fire or a lot of lead I can do a left-right-left-right-left-right firing sequence,or if a second goblin approaches from the other side I can just bring the closer iron to bear on them--my peripheral-vision's better than normal, and I'm actually working on training myself to shoot using it. Note, though, that I'm not pulling two triggers at once in any of the above examples, and my "targeting focus" is only on one goblin at a time--this just allows me to transfer that focus a bit faster.

As shown in the movies is pure Hollyweird bovine-scatology, though.

----------------
Now playing: John Williams - The Battle of Hoth (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/john+williams/track/the+battle+of+hoth)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[Isher]

All -

Hell, I thought the other hand was dedicated to the single finger salute!

isher

[jpatterson]

I've shot a pair of .22 pistols at the same time: no accuracy was involved. Pure Rambo fun :)

[Diamondback6]

Mine was 1911 .45 strongside, S&W 9mm weak--think I got a few .45-caliber hits on the paper that string, of course I was then shooting for a "Debunking the Myth" illustration for a class a friend was teaching.

[X-Rap]

Heck I thought everyone shot with a gun in each hand:confused:

[CWL]

If you watch those movies more carefully, you'll notice that the action star never has both barrels aimed in the same direction. Sure helps when the on-screen bad guys aren't shooting real bullets.

Movies are for entertainment, not for education. If that's all it took, every American would already be Special Forces qualified by age 18 just from watching movies and playing video games.

[innerpiece]

in the movies, yeah, you definetly need a gun in each hand... I mean serious, look how many bad guys ladden in kevlar you hafta take out with 2 9mm's!

a 2nd pistol as a BUG in some real world instances is quite relevant tho.. but not in all.

ip.

[PRM]

On a serious side, it was a practice during the percussion era to carry multiple revolvers. Not for dual shooting - but for the time factor of reloading under fire. There are accounts of Southern cavalry troops and partisans carrying up to eight or more revolvers. Some of which were carried in holsters on their saddles.

[atblis]

I've had two of the exact same hand gun a few times.

Here's the results.

2xWitness 10mms. 30 rounds of full tilt 10mm. 180 gr @1370fps
Complete joke. Truthfully hard to keep your footing shooting both at the same time. :what:

2x Cz75s. No where near as bad but. 32 rounds fired at a cinder block at about 15 feet. 1 hit. :o

Amusing none the less.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Well, for me having a second loaded iron in the other hand means I can "reload" faster by shifting my attention to the weak-hand gun and continuing the engagement, or if I need suppression-fire or a lot of lead I can do a left-right-left-right-left-right firing sequence,or if a second goblin approaches from the other side I can just bring the closer iron to bear on them--my peripheral-vision's better than normal, and I'm actually working on training myself to shoot using it. Note, though, that I'm not pulling two triggers at once in any of the above examples, and my "targeting focus" is only on one goblin at a time--this just allows me to transfer that focus a bit faster.

[from same person:]

As shown in the movies is pure Hollyweird bovine-scatology, though.

^
|
|
Good stuff, Maynard. You just can't make this up; thanks for putting a big smile on my face! :scrutiny: :)

[Prepster]

It's just plain fun, although it is a waste of ammo. I dual wielded a G19 and a Sigma 9 once to see how quickly I could empty both. If we assume the backstop was the target, I shot perfectly!

I did once see a guy with a pair of 1851 Colts (replicas) who was actually hitting stuff most of the time, and that was pretty cool.

[makarovnik]

Not unless you're Wild Bill Hickock.

[janobles14]

hell...just looks cool. and looking cool will scare the baddies better than marksmanship! believe it!

[Geezer59]

Yeah I think you're right , heck Roy and Gene both carried double rigs but I never saw either one shoot them both at the same time

Hoppy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopalong_Cassidy) could do it, shooting from the hip! I once saw him (in an old Western) walk up a hill in the open, under fire from three outlaws with lever action carbines under cover in a log cabin, steely-eyed firing alternate-hand shots that never missed. :what:

Even at age five I was just a little skeptical. ;)

[jackstinson]

The SAS Cowboy Action Shooting guys do it all the time.
I believe it is called Gunfighter Class; one in each hand.
10 shots fired successively, alternating guns usually.

[JImbothefiveth]

approaches from the other side
Seems like if someone aproached you from the other side, he could take your gun from you.

[SuperNaut]

Duel-wielding went out of fashion in the 18th century.

Dual-wielding is currently a Hollywood and video-game trope du jour.

[edSky]

Yeah I think you're right , heck Roy and Gene both carried double rigs but I never saw either one shoot them both at the same time

Gene Hackman and Roy Scheider in "The French Connection?" I don't think ... Wait, my Pa is telling me something ... Oh, never mind.

[dagger dog]

ed,

Them guys are NYC cowboys, and they were definitley lookin' for a different kind of HORSE!

[possum]

duel wielding handguns-any purpose?
none.

the only way that i see having two guns out at once is if one is empty and you are doing the quickest reload possible, which is another gun, and you haven't yet holstered the one empty. there is never ever any need to shoot 2 handguns at the same time. what a waste of time and energy and money.

[Bad Penny 03]

no.


shoot one at a time if you want to hit anything.

[Kind of Blued]

If one were to have a brain operation and remove the part that allows cross-communication between the left and right hemispheres, one might be able to use one eye on each set of sights, effectively employing two handguns.

I believe this to be an understood premise for every Angelina Jolie movie ever.

So until you get your brain hacked up, just shoot the one, and feed it with the other hand.

[barry960]

I agree with the sentiment that dual wielding is only for fun and to look cool in a movie, but I saw a program on History about fancy pistoleros and there's a couple guys out there who can very effectively and accurately dual wield, firing both handguns at once. It would be worth it to me to practice enough and be able to effectively do it, if my income was like tripled or I had magical bottomless mags, because I know it would take crates of ammo for me to be able to do that and keep all my shots on a barn even.

[Mat, not doormat]

It's beyond pointless with autoloaders, as it's slower to switch sights than to switch targets. Also, you lose your ability to reload, and much of your ability to control recoil.

With double action revolvers, it has a little more value, but not much. It allows for a twelve round string of fire, instead of six.

Where it came from, and where it still has some value is in single action revolvers. When shooting one of them one handed, it takes time to cock between shots. You can make use of that time by shooting the gun in your other hand, and then cocking it whilst shooting the first one again. It's considerably faster between shots that way, than shooting one gun in one hand. Still marginally slower than one gun in two hands and slip hammering, though. But, it does give ten rounds instead of five, followed by a very slow reload.

~~~Mat

[MyTFAL]

Whats wrong with you people? What a buncha pansies. Didn't ya hear me say "FILL YOUR HANDS YOU SON OF A BITCHES!!!"
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj153/MyTFAL/twoguns.jpg

[Justin]

You can learn to dual wield; Ed McGivern had a chapter about it in his book Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting. Here's the condensed version of how to learn to dual wield: Learn to shoot extremely well with your dominate hand. This involves shooting tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition. Then learn to shoot equally well with your weak hand. This involves several more tens of thousands of rounds. Then start shooting with both hands and learn to handle the weapons that way. This will involve even more ammunition.

As for my actual experiences with it, the times I've tried it with a center fire pistol ended with results that were less than spectacular. At this year's Rocky Mountain 3 Gun match, one stage required the competitor to dual wield a pair of .22 revolvers and hit two IPSC steel targets six times each at about seven or so yards. This turned out to be pretty easy, with some competitors turning their head to index the sights on each target, and others just staring straight ahead and aligning the guns with their periferal vision.

[SuperNaut]

As a counter to Justin's well-considered reply; don't forget to criss-cross your arms while dual wielding. This action frightens your enemies and excites the ladies.

By enemies I mean NPC's in a video game, and by ladies I mean your male buddies.

[jpatterson]

If one were to have a brain operation and remove the part that allows cross-communication between the left and right hemispheres, one might be able to use one eye on each set of sights, effectively employing two handguns.

Count me in!

[Justin]

By enemies I mean NPC's in a video game, and by ladies I mean your male buddies.

LOL!

[MikePGS]

Ed McGivern had a chapter about it in his book Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting. Here's the condensed version of how to learn to dual wield:
Right, I was going to say that I thought Ed McGivern would dual wield, but on the other hand HE WAS ED McGIVERN!!!!

[okespe04]

The only thing I could think dual wielding may be useful for in real life is suppressing fire in a pinch where another more viable firearm is not available.

[X-Rap]

Crossed arms with pistols canted 90deg. from verticle will scare the goblins and bring the ladies. To bad the only man alive to do it is Chuck Norris. And of course Angelina but she is a woman.:D

[hankdatank1362]

Not to lend the practice any legitimacy, but I know of at least one instance where someone wielding dual Beretta 92 Inoxs successfully repelled several armed attackers attempting to kill him outsie his home.

Granted, it was in the 80s, and the guy was a drug dealer, and the guys trying to kill him were rival dealers. I don't think he landed any hits, but he put enough lead in the air to turn them around.

I saw an interview with him, and the responding police on a show about the cocaine epedemic. He wsn't even an action-hero type... just a fat, middle-aged white guy.

[Gunfighter123]

jackstinson
Senior Member



Join Date: 12-13-07
Location: Altair 4
Posts: 447 The SAS Cowboy Action Shooting guys do it all the time.
I believe it is called Gunfighter Class; one in each hand.
10 shots fired successively, alternating guns usually.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jackstinson; Today at 07:16 AM.

Such a good reply needs a photo;

[WardenWolf]

A very few people can get away with dual wielding and pull it off effectively. Most can't. You have to be either ambidextrous or almost ambidextrous to pull it off, you must have identical pistols (or with identical grip angles), and with no eye dominance issues or too-strong eye dominance that will prevent you from switching your primary eye on the fly.

For these reasons, most people who CAN pull it off are left-handed, as they tend towards ambidexterity and adaptability more out of necessity. I am left-handed and can do it, but I have also trained myself for it. The most important thing is being able to coordinate the grip angle for your hands to ensure both guns are level even when not sighting one of them. You must practice mirroring both hands to each other so you can coordinate them together. Once you have done this, it comes much more naturally. If you are planning on doing this, you should practice with a mirror.

[22lr]

Its fun, I do it with 2 autos every now and again. I can actually get rounds on target after the first 2-3. Its fun after that.......

[Diamondback6]

Well said, Mike the Wolf--it takes certain physiological quirks. In my case, being a southpaw for a start, coupled with something similar to the previously-mentioned brain-surgery in that I've never had more'n a barely-functional frontal lobe (you'd never know it to see me in action, though, because the other 3 pick up the load) and the fact that my peripheral vision is better than normal, in point of fact I actually see better a bit off to the side than I do straight-ahead. So, since my peak visual acuity is just outside the "slice of pie" of binocular vision...

The corollary to knowing one's limitations is knowing what advantages or possible advantages you also bring to the table, and how to exploit the latter and work around the former. There is no one-size-fits-all answer here, folks...

[mgregg85]

The purpose? To look cool in the movie, thats about it.

[nwilliams]

Is there a point, no. But It looks really cool:D

[WardenWolf]

No, there is a point. And that's being able to have a gun pointed at 2 people at once.

[nwilliams]

I just remembered one of my favorite lines from Tombstone...


Billy Clanton: Why, it's the drunk piano player. You're so drunk, you can't hit nothin'. In fact, you're probably seeing double.
Doc Holliday: [takes out a second gun] I have two guns, one for each of ya.

[Wolfeye]

A while ago I came across a slow-mo youtube video of a guy firing two paintball pistols whilst flying through the air, and it's not nearly as dramatic as it looks in the movies. I can't find it now. The movies never show the part where the shooter flops on his side and tumbles awkwardly over his head.

[JFrame]

Heck, Shane didn't need two guns.

Yup...In fact, in the Jack Schaefer novel, Shane specifically says that using two guns is show-boating, and that (quoting from memory) "one gun is enough if a man knows how to use it." :)

Now, as a BUG, I think a second gun makes perfect sense...

[easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca]

in just about every action shooting movie
there always many people in the movies using two handguns at the same time

That's Hollywood entertainment for ya, much the same way the technique is good for fun, nothing more.

[Doc_Jude]

Justin, you beat me to it. Ed McGivern taught MANY Feds and police officers to "double gun".
As for the "HE WAS ED McGIVERN!!!!" response, he'd be the first one to tell you that all shooting tricks came easy (such as shooting dimes out of the air & shooting falling cans multiple times before they hit the ground) after he'd put TENS OF THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS INTO PRACTICING THEM. All of these shooters put in the work. Check out Ed McGivern's Book of Fast and Easy Revolver Shooting. It's an almost 500pg bible on revolver shooting (single & double action), & it's not the only good one out there, but in my opinion it's the most detailed. He has a funny stream-of-consciousness writing style, but once you get used to it, you'll find it invaluable.
Of course, this isn't some Chow Yun Fat double Beretta B.S., it's the real deal.

[4Freedom]

I think the virginia state massacre shooter used two handguns at same time. Not that it matters when all your victims are unarmed, scared and helpless.

[k9870]

yeah i can see training how to use a weapon 1 handed, train both hands in case your dominant arm is woune, but seriously not 2 at once, or 4 at once like in a collegehumor.com vieo i saw where he has 2 autos in each han

[coylh]

A gun in each hand, and your cutlass in your teeth. Arr!

[jjohnson]

No, not at least as far as I can see, even if the Lara Croft of Tomb Raiders makes it look cool. :cool: Most of us really aren't so adept with handguns that we can manage effectively two of 'em at the same time - better to be good with one and be able to reload if you have to.

How many of you guys SHOOT with your 'weak side?' I doubt most of you do.
Of those who do, can you actually HIT with one in each hand? Uh, huh, thought so. :scrutiny: I had enough Law Enforcement firarms training to actually hit a full sized silhouette at 15 yards, weak side, but it wasn't shooting back.

What do you do when both run empty, anyway? Doesn't that make reloading kinda awkward? Sure, if you're big into CAS trickshooting, and have time and money to practice A LOT you could do it for show, but most of us don't have that. If I were going to carry two sidearms, ONE of them would be a shotgun or carbine.;)

[30mag]

I think dual wielding is one of the primary requisites of mall ninjas.

[Boba Fett]

Awww....you mean my favorite Black Lagoon anime character toting dual berettas isn't based on real world gun wielding techniques?? :p

http://shisouka.com/THR/Image00001.jpg
http://shisouka.com/THR/Image00002.jpg
http://shisouka.com/THR/Image00005.jpg
http://shisouka.com/THR/Image00007.jpg
http://shisouka.com/THR/Image00009.jpg
http://shisouka.com/THR/Image00010.jpg
http://shisouka.com/THR/Image00011.jpg
http://shisouka.com/THR/Image00015.jpg
http://shisouka.com/THR/Image00016.jpg
http://shisouka.com/THR/Image00017.jpg

Just kidding if there is any doubt. :neener:

[James T Thomas]

I don't know if I want to add my post along with an Old Gezer, but when "Hoppy" got the drop on the guys wearing the black hats, he had a devil of a time with his old shoulder muscles; holding those heavy SA sixguns up until the law arrived!

Advantage? With enough pleasurable shooting practice, this discipline can
help correct strabmismus.

[k9870]

i noticed my hands can get around 2 browning hi powers and my fingers can get through both trigger guards, witth 2 in each hand, thats 13+1x4, so 56 rounds of 9mm. all four barrels blazing:D

[-v-]

Simple, dual-wielding is so that you can utilize eXtreme-Shock ammo to its full potential. There's a small notice on the back of the..umm.."box" that states that extreme shock ammo is only effective out of dual-wielded handguns, and using a single firearm will severely compromise the performance of the ammunition.

There you go.

[Boba Fett]

i noticed my hands can get around 2 browning hi powers and my fingers can get through both trigger guards, witth 2 in each hand, thats 13+1x4, so 56 rounds of 9mm. all four barrels blazing

I just have to ask, have you tried actually firing them like this yet?

[Doc_Jude]

No, not at least as far as I can see, even if the Lara Croft of Tomb Raiders makes it look cool. Most of us really aren't so adept with handguns that we can manage effectively two of 'em at the same time - better to be good with one and be able to reload if you have to.

I would agree with this sentiment. Of course, that doesn't prevent one from learning to effectively use two handguns, or rather, using one at a time, one in each hand. It's just like "double tapping", it's two aimed shots in rapid succession, not just some form of abrupt rapid fire.

How many of you guys SHOOT with your 'weak side?' I doubt most of you do.
I do, and most of the hand-gunners that I know do too. Not all of the time of course, probably 25%-30% of the time.

Of those who do, can you actually HIT with one in each hand? Uh, huh, thought so. I had enough Law Enforcement firarms training to actually hit a full sized silhouette at 15 yards, weak side, but it wasn't shooting back.

I can. Relatively accurate off-hand shots at 8-10 paces. After reading Ed McGivern's book, I'm starting to practice his methods for double-action shooting (one- & two-handed). When I get good enough to allow myself to be taped, I'll think about posting some vids ^_^

What do you do when both run empty, anyway? Doesn't that make reloading kinda awkward?

I believe that the SOP is to sheath the weak-hand weapon at that point and reload the strong-hand weapon. Of course, if you've emptied not one but two guns and the problem isn't taken care of, I wonder how many mistakes you made in your situational awareness to get into so much trouble???

Sure, if you're big into CAS trickshooting, and have time and money to practice A LOT you could do it for show, but most of us don't have that. If I were going to carry two sidearms, ONE of them would be a shotgun or carbine.

I agree with both points. However, how often are we able to just stroll down the road with a long gun? We are able to carry two sidearms relatively easily when compared to carrying long guns. Many folks practice a "New York" reload, thus they are carrying two handguns. How difficult would it be to have two guns in hand, taking aimed shots alternately or just emptying one gun and then transitioning to the other?

[Boba Fett]

Well said Doc ^_^

+1 to pretty much everything he said

[Doc_Jude]

Well said Doc ^_^

+1 to pretty much everything he said

Why, thank you! :D

[Diamondback6]

Well said, Doc. As for "what happens when you run out?"... well, if the bullets do their part, the guns do their part and I do mine, once my doublestack longslides are built if I run empty after almost three dozen rounds of .45ACP or .450SMC, I don't need more ammo, I need either A-10 and Apache support, immediate evac or an emergency absolution and last rites, 'cause whatever I'm facing ain't human... unless it's a mob, large street gang or a squad-size or larger military unit, in which case the order of the day is "tactical withdrawal".

[withdrawn34]

Hmm, dual wielding Desert Eagles works perfectly in counter strike, as does reloading them... so it must work in real life, obviously!

[SoCalShooter]

Its increases your SKILLS +6 when you dual wield although it lowers you accuracy by -4 but your total coolness and badass rating go up +5000

[Mr Kablammo]

Unless you conduct expensive and relentless practice, trying to shoot as fast as you can with a gun each hand is worse than useless.

[Doc_Jude]

...once my doublestack longslides are built...

Are you being sarcastic? Of course, if you're not being sarcastic, you plan on actually carrying "your doublestack longslides" en leu of something more concealable? Concealability is mostly about a low-profile handle, and a 15+round doublestack magazine isn't very concealable. Two of them, even less so. Unless you're an Anime character...

[LightningJoe]

Marty Feldman might have gotten some use out of the two-gun technique.

[notorious]

To answer the question definitively for you and only you, go to the nearest range where you can do it and try out dual-wielding yourself. Unless you are very skilled, I can guarantee you will land 1 or 2 lucky hits out of 2 full mags. Then there's the matter of reloading since you have wasted all your bullets.

However, like I said, it's only for you. There might be people that can and have a need to do it. I don't know of any but that's not to say never.

Easy and cheaper way to answer your question without trying it yourself... just ask yourself... look at people who sling guns for a living and who live and die by their firearm, e.g. soldiers and police. Do you see any of them dual-wield and if it is of any use, do you not think there would be some official training program?

[notorious]

Another thought, most shooters can't manage their one gun in their hands to be consistently good in their shooting, why would having 2 make any difference other than doubling your rate of misses?

Here's a thought on dual-wield though, there is a valid use for holding two guns but only shooting 1 at a time while using the other one to hold as a ready in hand reload. I guess you can also use one gun to hold one guy at gunpoint while shooting the other guy to make a point but that's a very rare situation as well unless you are a drug dealer or something.

[Doc_Jude]

Notorious: you have a very negative opinion of "shooters". Are you aware of what the popular definition of this word "shooter" is? Beyond the criminal sense, of course...
Shooters are those who have gone through the paces, those that have put in the range time & the dry-fire time to develop serious, serious skills, skills that can easily impress, easily entertain, and easily kill people.

http://showmanshooter.com/assets/images/Video_Tape_box_cover_picture_small.jpg


***Being a straight shooter doesn't make you in the NRA,
& being in the NRA doesn't make you a straight shooter.***

[notorious]

How many of those guys in the posters live among us and qualify for the general question of what the OP is asking about?

I have the utmost respect for Ed McGivern and any of the trick shooters who mastered the craft but it is neither practical nor probable for 99.2384% of us to come close to any semblance of their skill levels.

[Doc_Jude]

How many of those guys in the posters live among us and qualify for the general question of what the OP is asking about?

Well, they're all dead. They all qualify as examples of what the OP was asking. Especially Ed McGivern, being a civilian that shot as a hobby until he had many years of experience and began writing and instructing LEOs.

I have the utmost respect for Ed McGivern and any of the trick shooters who mastered the craft but it is neither practical nor probable for 99.2384% of us to come close to any semblance of their skill levels.

Funny that you say this. I also have the utmost respect for Ed McGivern, & I've read his book. Have you? because he says in his book that his skills are not inborn but earned through practice. The biggest hurdle is the dry-fire aspect of the practice, THEN the accuracy and range time.
Even guys like Jelly Brice, who was in law enforcement for years but was a most excellent shot before ever getting into service, spent many many hours doing dry fire drills in front of a mirror. Is it neither practical nor probable for some 99% of us to practice these skills? I would say no.

"Even the Journey of 10,000 miles began with the first step"

[Brian Williams]

Nope, work hard at shooting one at a time and hitting what you aim at, throwing a storm of bullets downrange only works for missle defense for large ships.