What is the most unreliable semi auto you have shot ?


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M&PVolk
March 23, 2009, 10:13 PM
Kahr CW-40. Stove pipes, slide running back past the stop, and crushed brass were at least a 2 to 3 round per magazine experience. Biggest POS ever...

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Handgunner
March 23, 2009, 10:35 PM
Lorcin .25 :cuss:

mtarnold5
March 24, 2009, 12:12 AM
Sig Mosquito!!

PT1911
March 24, 2009, 12:15 AM
Rohm .22 lr... it was the most amazingly un-accurate gunI have ever fired... never have I attempted to shoot a gallon jug at 5 yards and missed by a foot... it was amazing... needless to say, though it was given to me, I didnt keep it very long...followed closely by a friend of mine's bryco/jennings 9mm....

Claude Clay
March 24, 2009, 12:17 AM
a mid 70's PPK/S. after chambering a round IT was the only one i could count on to fire. 10/10 for pretty--1/7 for what it was built as.

ScareyH22A
March 24, 2009, 03:07 AM
After seeing that the PM9 was mentioned on here a couple of times, I thought I was gonna see what FTF's were all about. I went to the range with my new PM9 and 200rds of WWB. No FTF's or FTE's to speak of. But who knows... maybe it needs to be really broken in to start having problems. I'll report back after about a 1000rds or so.

Sapper771
March 24, 2009, 08:58 AM
A $1200 Kimber Eclipse Target II, nothing but junk. Kimber couldnt fix it. I took a nasty hit when I traded it for a Glock 22 , spare mag, holster, and ammo......but at least the Glock worked. I vowed to never own a Kimber again.

Cliff123
March 24, 2009, 11:57 AM
Springfield Ultra Compact, High Capacity. Would not feed a full mag. Also multiple FTE's in 600 rounds or so.

Was told another 500 rounds to "break it in." Maybe some new (read: expensive) mags. Polish feed ramp, etc etc.

Sooooo, I felt I did not want to "invest" further or trust my life to this handgun, and whent with a Glock 26.

Raines
March 24, 2009, 04:35 PM
This gun sucked from the word go. From research this had to do with rather soft, early stainless steel and "galling". I traded it off. I dont care what you attribute it to...if it doesnt go bang every time I want it to, I dont want to keep it around.

Has surprised me how many kimbers I have seen on here, have never owned one myself, but sounds like I havent been missing much.

Hikingman
March 24, 2009, 04:43 PM
Beretta Bobcat 21A, Bought various expensive ammo, and still...

BENELLIMONTE
March 25, 2009, 01:49 AM
My buddys Kimber Ultra Carry. Jammed routinely until he sent the clips back to NYC. Now it only jams once in awhile:confused:

marano35
March 25, 2009, 10:39 AM
I have never shot one that was reliable and I have shot three. A lot of people like them and swear by them but you could not give me one after the experinces I had with them.

jaysouth
March 25, 2009, 11:00 AM
#1 Remington Rand 1911A1 that I was issued in Viet Nam in 1966

#2 Colt S70 gov model purchased 1971. Pin holes misaligned, Colt would not make good. I have not allowed a colt product in my house since and will not pass up a chance to bad mouth the company. They are S&%t!

#3 Every Lorcin and hipoint that I ever attempted to shoot

lesterg3
March 25, 2009, 11:02 AM
Glock 23, FTFeed, less than a hundred rounds and it started to fall apart.

BTW these were standard rounds, FMJ nothing fancy, 155 GR.

This experience really sold me on Glock's NOT!!!

afvoo52
March 29, 2009, 11:54 AM
Older Ruger P89, what a jamming POS. Not accurate and even jammed with some ball ammo.

Dan Crocker
March 29, 2009, 01:36 PM
A guy brought an old 1920's-era 1911 to a class once. Horrid. Actually, I seem to now recall that it had a 20's frame, a mismatched slide...so it was probably a cobbled gun. But still, just awful.

Coltman 77
March 29, 2009, 03:23 PM
A Walther PPK/S made in Germany in 1974 (IIRC) which I bought NIB.

Chambered in .380 it was a jamomatic even with hardball ammo.

The pistol was later stolen from my home and I used the insurance money to buy my first Colt .45 auto - a series 70 Gov Model which has been a winner!

skeeter_08
March 29, 2009, 06:27 PM
During vacation a few years ago I tried to shoot an AMT Lightning .22lr rental gun at a range down in Clearwater, Florida; the gun was a total Jam-O-Matic!

hadmanysons
March 29, 2009, 07:37 PM
KelTec P-11. Hated that thing. Sold it for a Taurus pt-111. Big improvement, same price.

gary vale
March 29, 2009, 10:40 PM
Beretta Bobcat 21A ... uses 22LR

I have to agree with Mr. Hikingman...I went to the range the other day with my Beretta Bobcat 21A, and had a jam with just about every magazine I poped in...I was hoping that it was just the ammo I was using....but that post worries me...also found the gun to be very inaccurate...no it couldn't be me...

Bufford t. Justice
March 30, 2009, 02:57 PM
Easy. A Jennings 9mm. JunkOmatic

thunder173
March 30, 2009, 03:02 PM
Absolute worse,..hands down,...Charter AR-7

Stew4570
March 30, 2009, 05:34 PM
I had a Taurus .44 Special snub. I couldn't hit a tree stump at 15 yards. In fact everybody who shot it couldn't hit Sh** with it. Same for my buddies Taurus PT940. I wont look at anything made by Taurus.

My Para P14 broke every few hundred rounds before I replaced everything inside with Ed Brown's hardened steel parts. I guess it was just cheap steel or something. I have put around 3k rounds through it without any problems. So now when I buy a new 1911 I just go ahead and swap out everything with Ed Brown's parts.

Jesh66
June 7, 2009, 04:30 AM
I had to register just because I think some people are missing some things...

I own quite a few firearms. I won't get into the rifles but handgun-wise I have the following:

I carry an H&K P2000 SK 9mm
I own a Kimber Custom II Stainless TLE/RL II .45 ACP
a Beretta 90-TWO 9mm
a Walther P22

First the reliable... The H&K and the 90-TWO perform flawlessly. Just incredible firearms.

The Kimber is amazing also if you don't use the magazines that come with it. Here's the thing... the mags that ship with it don't have a the piece to keep it level on both sides. Not sure what it's called - the ramp? I find that when it's missing the piece to keep it level on both sides of the magazine it tends to feed improperly. When it has the side piece on both sides it works perfectly. This is probably why someone in the thread said when they switched to Wilson Combat mags they never had a problem.

Here's what I'm talking about:

http://www.theskinsfactory.com/tsf-clients/DSC00608.jpg

If you look at #1 you can see that floating "lip". That tends to snag on the side of the mag. On #2 you can see that piece that runs deeper into the mag and helps stabilize it. That's the Kimber after-market magazine.

The Walther P22. It's just picky with the ammo. Once you find the ammo it likes it will work flawlessly. Would i trust it to save my life. Only if it was that or nothing. But then i wouldn't count on a .22LR to do much but punch paper.

So I think some people don't take the time to recognize that some of the issues can be fixed and just give up.

I've been looking for a smaller carry since i live in South Florida and the H&K tends to print on t-shirts a bit too much when its hot out and you sweat. I have been looking at the Sig P232 which everyone raves about but i hear it's rather big and the Walther PPK pr PPK/S.

Anyway my 2 cents.

Regards,

Jeff

2ndamd
June 7, 2009, 10:57 AM
A Kimber Gold Match. It was very expensive for back then.
Man, I tried alot of different magazines. That thing just loved to jam. I think the gun actually looked forward to jamming? It was horrible and I will never own another one.

Over priced papereight IMO. They look good but, they just love to jam. Or, at least mine did.

Taurus model 85UL. Not a good gun and I will look forward to never owning one of these again.

Omaney
June 7, 2009, 11:01 AM
Kahr MK9...hated it.

benderx4
June 7, 2009, 11:41 AM
Jennings 22

You get what you pay for.

Keb
June 7, 2009, 11:51 AM
Wouldn't it be neat if somebody with more energy than Me, would make a summary table of these findings!

weisse52
June 7, 2009, 12:46 PM
I am sure a summary table could be made, but what would it's value really be.
We have many pages of peoples personal experience but no real way of knowing what the problem was in most cases. Unless you look at the ones where the gun just blew up what does it really tell us?
I traded for a Colt many years ago from a good friend who swore that it was the biggest piece of c every made. I took same pistol with my mags and a good cleaning and never had a failure.
Now I am sure many people can repace the name Colt with the handgun of the moment and share the same experience.
The discussions of what gun is best and which is junk in so many cases is just a matter of personal experience, no more, no less.
As I read the posts it was fun to see a big name get mentioned and then two posts later a fanboy of that brand had to jump to the defense and claim that they would trust their life to the very hand gun the first had dared to post a less than stellar report.

One of my favorite comments for all these threads is when a fanboy responds with the comment that goes something like "everyone knows you cannot believe what is written on the Internet"
By my logic that means I cannot believe what they say in defense either.

Pops 1
June 7, 2009, 12:52 PM
Ruger P345

murph50
June 7, 2009, 01:04 PM
Remington 597--22lr rifle.
Jams on every mag. They improved the mags--I got some--still jams.
It's a shame--I like the gun--it's accurate and all but just jams too much.

My 1st Kel Tec P3AT
Had some serious FTE problems after about 150 rds.
It took a 2 week trip to Kel Tec and has been 100% since and is in my pocket every day.
My 2nd P3AT has been 100% since day one

mljdeckard
June 7, 2009, 01:09 PM
I might have already responded to this thread, but it bears repeating. Sigma .40.

claiborne
June 7, 2009, 01:28 PM
Walther P-22 and S&W 1911 Target model

wditto
June 7, 2009, 01:32 PM
only two really trashy pistols in 50 years, so they are (to me anyway) worthless copies of a good model - they were both Kimber

christcorp
June 7, 2009, 02:34 PM
I have found that most of the so called "Unreliable" semi-autos usually had problems with feeding, (Including magazines), extraction, and ejection problems. I have bought quite a few of these used to experiment with. Knowing I could resell it at a gun show. One of the biggest problems I've found is finding the RIGHT AMMO. And going along with that, I have found, If it's a EUROPEAN GUN; get EUROPEAN AMMO. If it's a USA gun, use USA AMMO. I have 3 guns that people supposedly had feeding, ramping, and ejection problems with. One is now one of my 2 carry weapons. An FEG AP-MBP 7.65 (32auto). If you put USA brand ammo in it, after the 4th round in the magazine, the nose of the rounds will start facing downward. Some misfeeds when chambering. And extraction can be a bit hit and miss because the base of the rim on USA/European brass is also noticeably different. Changing to Fiocchi or S&B ammo, and I can't make the damn thing jam or misfeed if I TRY; including Hollow-Points. Plus, European guns and ammo tend to be and handle hotter better. The 32acp Fiocchi 60 grain Hollow point ammo is pushing 1200 fps and 205 ft/lbs; Which is pushing it faster and with the same amount of energy as just about any 380 on the market.

On the other hand, some of the larger rounds where HP is about the ONLY effective round; e.g. 45acp; the LLama 45acp 1911A clone (not 100%) was terrible with ANYTHING other than FMJ European ammo. It never missed once. However, HP and ANY American ammo was almost a guarantee for a misfeed somewhere in the system.

SrDedosRapidos
June 7, 2009, 02:41 PM
Beretta 21 Bobcat.

COMPLETE POS.

6x6pinz
June 7, 2009, 04:15 PM
funny that the list includes some that are also on the most reliable lists also.

I have a Accu-tek 380 that is very reliable. I know that it will not shoot two rounds in a row no matter what ammo or what has been done to it. Accu-tek did nothing about the issue so now it is just a pile of stainless steel to hold doors open, the only thing it can reliably do.

BK
June 7, 2009, 06:57 PM
An extremely dirty one. When their clean, they never have issues.

mesinge2
June 7, 2009, 07:01 PM
My first gun was a Cobra Patriot .45ACP. I took it shooting the day I bought it. I had a jam every round. Well, more of a lock-up. It would feed but the trigger would not reset after a shot was fired. Everyshot. I'd have to pull the slide back about an 8th of an inch to reset the trigger. I went right back to the store I purchased it from, and got rid of it.

poilu
June 7, 2009, 08:22 PM
beretta 21a bobcat

SharpsDressedMan
June 7, 2009, 08:39 PM
AMT Backup .380, Michell Stainless Luger 9mm

BillCh
June 7, 2009, 09:14 PM
My USMC issue M16-A1. A true jam-o-matic. :cuss:

sidheshooter
June 7, 2009, 10:16 PM
Irma toggle-action "luger" clone in .380

jambo545
June 7, 2009, 10:36 PM
Taurus 24/7 oss Thing was the bigggest pos ever was probably the most accurate pistol I have ever had If you could get it to fire

PT1911
June 7, 2009, 10:38 PM
so.. in summary, someone has had a bad experience with just about every semi-auto that has ever been produced.

blackops
June 7, 2009, 10:51 PM
I'd have to say kimber and I also noticed kimber seem to be throughout this whole thread. Sorry kimber your unreliable.

PT1911
June 7, 2009, 10:54 PM
I do not own a kimber, but I am curious if these malfunctions took place within the first 500 rounds as I have heard MANY times. Kimbers have a 500 round break in period during which they jam quite frequently, but once they loosen up I have never seen one that didnt run like a dream. I may be mistaken here but I have seen many people lose a lot of money after only putting 50 rounds through the gun because they didnt read the manual.

BK
June 7, 2009, 10:54 PM
I've been luck that the junk that I own still operates.

tuckerdog1
June 8, 2009, 09:26 AM
Beretta Bobcat. Even after being returned & supposedly "made right", my old Jennings J22 was more trustworthy.

Tuckerdog1

yeti
June 8, 2009, 01:34 PM
Savage 1905, if you don't pull the trigger, in exactly the manner it prefers(pull from the upper half of the trigger, not from the bottom half), all it does is drop the hammer, but not fire. Hell, it's a safe queen anyway, I keep her around for her looks, not her fighting abilities.

Olympus
June 8, 2009, 01:53 PM
Jennings 22

You get what you pay for.

Same here. My grandma had one that she had never told any of us about and that she kept in her nightstand for home defense. She brought it out one day and I just couldn't believe it. She said it hadn't been shot in like 15 years or something. I took it home and that little thing was the biggest POS that I've ever seen. It wouldn't even make it through a full magazine without jamming. I even took the little thing apart and covered it in RemOil. Still wouldn't make it through a full mag. I told G-ma to get rid of that thing.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 8, 2009, 01:56 PM
Ones that I tried to "improve" ; i.e. that I tinkered with (aftermarket barrels & such).

GPStak
June 8, 2009, 04:48 PM
Grendel P-12. I had a G17 and the baby Glocks weren't out yet. Purchased this .380 since it looked similiar to the Glocks and held 12 rounds, I think. It would jam while trying to chamber a round. As I started looking to see why, the magazine lip was too long and the bullit would try to enter the chamber at too much angle. I removed a little material from the lip and it worked fine after that. I never regained the confidence I needed in that gun. Sold it when the G26 came out.

fedlaw
June 8, 2009, 06:56 PM
I have had 3 guns that were not 100%: Taurus .22 about 85%; Sig P220 about 95%; and Kimber Stainless Target II w/ee about 98%. The Taurus soured me on that brand. The Sig was very accurate, but not in my hands. (My P226 was 100%, but not very accurate). The Kimber was very accurate, but the external extractor prevented it from acheiving 100%.
By way of comparison, my Springfield Loaded has more than 12,000 rds through it and has never even had a hiccup.

76shuvlinoff
June 8, 2009, 07:33 PM
Guess I've been pretty lucky, the only unreliable bottom feeder I've had was a SA Ultracompact V10 .45 and after I dropped in a new Wilson extractor and a recoil spring it was running like a sewing machine.
My auto sidearm list is short:
Walther P38 from WWII, Dad's bring-back.
Taurus 92 9mm I actually loved this gun and should not have sold it. With 15 rd mags this really was a sewing machine.
SA ultracompact V10 45 hated the porting, had to go.
XD 40 service, totally reliable but sold for XD45
XD 45 service, looking for something more compact, sold
XD40sc for edc this one takes a licking, no issues. nada.

And finally.... a Kimber 5 inch Raptor II with internal extractor. The way I read these threads it must be worth a freakin mint as it seems to be very rare with just over 1000 rds so far and zero failures from day 1. I feed it 230 FMJ or Federal Hydrashoks.... and I ain't gonna mess with success.

As they say, Your mileage may vary.... and I oughta buy a lottery ticket but can't afford it because I don't reload.

2nd 41
June 8, 2009, 10:30 PM
All of my Gold Cups

Just kidding.....Early edition Sig Mosquito is a Blue Ribbon loser

HKGuns
June 8, 2009, 10:43 PM
I still own all the pistols I ever purchased and all have performed flawlessly.

1911user
June 8, 2009, 10:45 PM
charter arms made AR-7. Jam-o-matic supreme

Bought it used for $35 or $40 and happily sold it for $20 a few weeks later. I was honest and told the buyer how bad it jammed. I still think I got the better deal on that sale.... What a POS, good riddance!

Theojt
June 9, 2009, 12:01 AM
Jennings .22. Stovepipes every round.

I was going to destroy it, but then I figured I'd wait until I could find a gun buy-back. I'll turn it in, they'll detroy it, I'll take my money (don't they usally give $200 flat?) and go get something better. Pretty good deal considering I spent $60 on it a long, long time ago.

OrangePwrx9
June 9, 2009, 12:47 AM
Amazing thread. Read every post. Never woulda believed the big names could put out so much junk. Y'all sure you're not just passing the same few clunkers around to each other??

Anyway, I've got 3 centerfire semi-autos (DW 1911, Kahr K9, BHP) and a couple of Ruger Mark IIs...and they all work. But, being a revolver guy, I always expect them to fail. They seem to delight in proving me wrong.

Was thinking about a new P345 but, after reading this, I figure the odds are against me & I better quit while I'm ahead.
Bob

legumeofterror
June 9, 2009, 01:00 AM
Colt MK IV Series 80 Officer. it failed to feed a lot, especially with hollow points.

10-Ring
June 9, 2009, 02:33 AM
The only lemon I've ever owned was a P220 but even that thing ate up everything I fed it -- most unreliable....might got to a little Beretta 21a I once had -- very finicky w/ ammo

Dr.Rob
June 9, 2009, 06:02 AM
Worst pistol I've handled was a Steyr GB 9mm. While gas delayed blowback was neat, dirty ammo would not only jam it, it would LOCK it up solid on a fired case. Only solution was to let it cool off, then you could rack the slide. Seems like a serious design flaw in a pistiol designed for military use.

Worst ones I own:

Lugers are just finicky when it comes to ammo. Hotter 124gr ammo seems to = less jams. Last pistol I'd take out of the safe for home defense. More so because of HOW it jams, always seems like you need 3 hands to clear a Luger.

Custom Seecamp style DA ODI/Viking/Colt gave me fits for a long time, not reliable enough to use as a defensive arm, just a range toy, and an expensive range to have built at that. Still a neat piece that I tried like HELL to run as my IDPA pistol.

Only other issues I've had have been with bad ammo or a broken/improperly cleaned gun. Had a brick of WW Wildcat 22's that turned my Ruger Mk2 into a jamming misfiring zip-gun. Tossed the ammo, no more problems. Still leary about buying that brand. Also broke the extractor tip off my FEG BHP clone after 5,000 rounds or so, which made it FTE and led to double feeds and other nonsense. One I realized I had a broken part, no problem. Also pays to clean UNDER the ejector once in a while with a toothpick or dental tool. That spring isn't very big and over time powder/primer residue can affect the function of the part.

Guns, like cars require cleaning and maintenance, sometimes stuff breaks.

maddy345
June 9, 2009, 11:44 AM
Ruger P345. Never dry fired without the mag in yet one out of every six DA trigger pulls the hammer would drop and the gun wouldn't fire. :fire:

bkjeffrey
June 9, 2009, 12:08 PM
I had a Jennings 22 that jammed every other shot.

I traded it for two cans of Copenhagen.

Olympus
June 9, 2009, 12:35 PM
I had a Jennings 22 that jammed every other shot.

I traded it for two cans of Copenhagen.

:D:D:D

ahazen001
June 9, 2009, 03:49 PM
Kimber Custom Covert II. Spent a fortune on the thing cause it looked so cool...replaced the mags with wilson combat when I started having problems...and then shot 1500 rounds through it to "break it in"...complete POS. Jammed once almost every mag.

Traded it in on a S&W M&P with lasergrips...smartest thing I ever did.

harmon rabb
June 9, 2009, 04:22 PM
i've seen very few little mention of glocks, xd's, or sig's in here...

MJZZZ
June 9, 2009, 06:29 PM
Kel Tec PF-9

alpha6164
June 9, 2009, 07:05 PM
My Kahr PM9 is the only hand gun i have purchased and sold because it was such a piece of crap. Actually my best friend and I both purchased a PM9 because it was size wise great for a 9mm CCW but the constant FTFs and stove pipes pissed me off. I put over a 1000rnds thru it and there would a failure at least one every three or four magazines which is unacceptable for a carry peace. Needless to say we both sold ours.

ATF3goodthings
June 9, 2009, 09:29 PM
1)-1980's Walther PPK/S jammed every other magazine at least once-I was told I was holding it too tight or too loose-Fine but in a tight spot I don't really want to think about my grip.
-Traded the Walther in on a Beretta 92FS pre ban for those of you old enough to have bought one back then.---Best 9mm ever!!! I have loaded every type of 9mm round made and re-loads and it has NEVER failed-- I think it would shoot twizzlers if you loaded it with them. Dirty, clean, hot, cold, loves it all.
2)-Beretta Tomcat .380-not as bad as the Walther but I refuse to own something that jams.
-Traded the Tomcat for my Kel-tec P3AT and its been a trooper-no problems at all.
-Never had a problem with my Taurus 1911 and its so smooth.
-Lastly my sweetheart--Remington Model 51 .380-no problems and it was made in the 1920's. What an instinctive shooting and well made gun.

I agree that there are always guns that are overlooked at the factory with problems, I do find it interesting that some factories seem to overlook worse than others. I also think that another factor is how many are being sold. If you sell 10 guns none of them may come back, if you sell 10 million I think its safe to say you are going to have some lemons. Keep in mind that we all like and dislike manufactures for one reason or another and its personal to us, I just hope nobody here has bad mouthed any without actually having issues.

PhrankKastle
June 9, 2009, 11:38 PM
Back around 97ish I wanted something smaller than my Sig P226 so I got a Glock 19 and I never had a range session without some kind of feeding issue, nor was it very accurate, sold it to a friend who loved his G22 and wanted a 9 he sold it shortly after he couldn't get it to run consistently either.

Also had issues with a S&W M&Pc 9mm, I guess polymer and I just don't get along.

Still sticking with my P226 and P239 I picked up in 2001

easyg
June 10, 2009, 09:30 AM
I had a CZ75B .40 single-action that would frequently fail to eject spent brass.

But when it worked, it was the most accurate pistol I have ever owned.

wormserco
June 10, 2009, 10:14 AM
Beretta 92FS I purchased used.. loved to FTF or lock halfway through the magazine. With some wrenching it was a little better...

A Ruger P95 I purchased new was the worst. When it was clean it was good.. but even a little dirty and it got bad. Jammed or stovepiped constantly. I've owned a few Ruger P series and haven't been impressed...

phoenix79
June 10, 2009, 12:45 PM
I had a CZ75B .40 single-action that would frequently fail to eject spent brass.

But when it worked, it was the most accurate pistol I have ever owned.

Try changing the extractor spring. there was a known problem on some .40's

Guy de Loimbard
June 10, 2009, 04:39 PM
Ruger Mark III. The pistol club here at MTU has 8 of them, and I've never seen anything jam more than these. I really don't think that it's the guns' fault in this case though, because a good half of the failures can be attributed to crappy (deformed, misshapen) ammo. I think that a good percentage of the rest of the failures are due to the fact that they hardly ever get cleaned, and when they do, it's with Hoppe's #9 which seems to react with the soot the ammo leaves and turns into coat of gunk. I'd really like to see how one of these runs when cleaned properly (ie, after every shooting session)

Green Dragoon
June 10, 2009, 04:59 PM
One of the Astras that looked like a SIG. I cannot remember the model number but the thing would jam on round number 7 each and every time, no matter what mag i used

easyg
June 10, 2009, 06:09 PM
Try changing the extractor spring. there was a known problem on some .40's
Yeah, another fellow advised that when it first started malfunctioning.
So I had a gunsmith do just that, but it didn't make any difference at all.

I traded the gun.

larryh1108
June 10, 2009, 06:21 PM
It's funny that I own more than one or two guns mentioned here. Over the years and after working on many guns I have learned a few things. Cristcorp hit it right on the head.... European gun likes European ammo and vice versa.

Some guns require a break in period and some don't. That's how it is and I've read so many posts about guys getting upset because their new gun didn't run perfectly right out of the box. They feel the factory should be able to iron it out before they ship it. The tighter the tolerences the bigger the chance it needs to break in to be 100%. Most owner's manuals state there is a break in period but I'd bet a lot of guys don't read them because they've been around guns their whole life.

I have a Llama .45 1911 "clone" that I'd put against any 1911 out there in the under $1000 range. I also own a Kahr PM9 that has been flawless for nearly 1500 rounds. I also have a Ruger LCP with 1000+ rounds thru it without a hiccup. My HP22a was a finicky little guy until I found 10 mags that it likes, after I worked the base of the mags on the back side because the mag spring would hang up at times when it was compressed. When you load the mags you can almost feel which ones will give you feeding problems at the range. They are harder to load round 7-10. That's a mag spring bind. Last week I had 10 mags and I fired off 98 rounds without a hitch and the 2 that didn't fire had the cases hit with the firing pin but no go. I blame that on the cheap .22 ammo. If you get a FTE then you should save the casing and most often you see a hairline crack in it that caused it to expand in the barrel just enough to make it tough to extract. Also, the recoil springs in the .22s need changing more often because they are smaller and thinner. Neglect those and you get your FTEs, FTFs and stovepipes.

Most .22s are ammo sensitive. HP range ammo is silly in the .22LRs. Most .22s like the RN ammo. It's just simple mechanical symmetry.

My Raven .25 has eaten over 1000 rounds without flinching. They are also mag sensitive and a clean mag is all this little workhouse asks for along with fresh recoil springs after 500 rounds.

It amazes me that we'll spend $800+ on a nice handgun and then spend $30 on a mag and complain that the gun is garbage when it won't feed properly. 85%+ of feeding issues in the semis are mag related whether it is the lips, follower or the spring itself. If you have a gun that is a jam-o-matic then sell it to me for cheap. I'll have it running like a clock in a week or so and I'll sell it at 3x what I paid for it.

Oh, the original question. I've worked on a lot of Llamas and the .380s seem to have the worst percentage of issues. I've narrrowed down the reasons but if I tell you guys here I'll lose a source of income! They keep me busy. Sorry for the long post but as I kept reading I kept shaking my head thinking "if they only knew".....

MissouriCrowinMass
June 11, 2009, 07:24 AM
Very interesting series. I'm surprised to see the Sig P220's mentioned so often? I have the ST. It is by far my favorite range pistol. Never jams. However, the ergometics made me change my grip as my thumb in the straight forward position rode the slide release and it wouldn't lock back on the last round. Solved that problem with a new grip.

I was dumb enough not to read the directions on my Ruger P345. Dry fired it one night w/o a mag in it and wrecked it. Ruger fixed it for free - took 2 months. I like the ergonomics but if I slam a mag home.....the slide will release about 20% of the time. I don't like that. Plus, I think that Dry Firing sensitivity is a major design flaw for any pistol. Very accurate. Good price. I enjoy shooting it. (Adjusted the rear sight.)

The Ruger MK III's are not for everbody. Field striping is involved. Mine jammed all the time. Then I went to the a Rimfire Forum and got a great tip about rounding the edge lips of the mags with a Dremel Tool. That simple tip did it. My MK III never jams now and thats with 3 different modified mags I use. However, field striping still involves going to a Web Site to review the correct order of steps. Wish it field stripped easier...then it would be perfect.

My S&W M&P .40 was a fine SD or carry pistol. Never jammed or FTF. Good price and accuracy. I sold it as I wanted a Range Gun in .40. With the heavy trigger pull design in Mass.....it's not a fun range gun. Plus, after firing 50 rounds....it really gave a bad trigger bite. But.....for SD or Carry..... great value & reliable pistol.

S&WMP45
June 12, 2009, 12:28 AM
XD 45 mid size-BIGGEST PIECE OF CRAPOLA!

jammed constantly (ftf) with FMJ ammo. the accuracy was horrible too.

noticed too, that as the barrel heated up, the accuracy got noticeably worse.

only gun i owned for only a month and will never own another xd-anything, ended up replacing it with a sw mp 45 compact-great gun!

now i know why almost 400 police departments issue the m&p, but exactly ZERO issue an xd!!

rhubarb
July 29, 2010, 12:50 PM
Ok, I counted them:

Bersa 2
HK 3
Hi Point 4
Raven 4
CZ 5
Tanfoglio 5
Kahr 6
Glock 7
Sig 10
Llama 11
Para 11
Jennings 12
Taurus 12
Springfield 13
AMT 14
Colt 14
S&W 15
Beretta 17
Keltec 17
Ruger 17
Walther 22
Kimber 25

I have excluded in this list any manufacturer mentioned only once. I did not include posts that only included the name of the manufacturer and a pejorative. Ex: keltek yuk :rolleyes:. I tried to separate posts with experience from simple bashing. I might have miscounted a few, but the trend is there. Even if I over- or under-counted 2 Kimber posts, Kimber still has the highest number of complaints. I skipped a few manufacturers that are out of the mainstream (Daewoo, High Standard, etc).

A few things stand out:

Good luck finding a reliable .22 pistol. Many of the Walther, Beretta, and Sig posts referred to .22.

Variants of the 1911 make up more posts than any other design. See Colt, Kimber, Para, and Springfield. Yes, I'm sure that it is due to tinkering with JMB's design. Don't shoot the messenger.:cool:

I couldn't find a source that lists quantity sales by manufacturer. That would be helpful in determining likelihood that a particular design would fail. You could compare sales numbers to failure numbers. However, one example where you could safely guess would be Ruger vs. Keltec. I imagine that over the years Ruger has sold many multiples of the amount that Keltec has sold. Since there were the same number of complaints, you could surmise that Rugers are several times more reliable than Keltecs. Another point that could be made is that Glocks have become so ubiquitous in the last couple of decades that finding them among the least complained about guns on a major gun board speaks volumes for their true reliability.

Just saying. Draw your own conclusions.:D

In the interest of disclosure, I own a Ruger and a Keltec only. Yes, the Ruger is more reliable.

MattDFW
July 29, 2010, 02:45 PM
Kimber Pro TLE II. UGH! :fire: Waste of time and money. 3 trips to Kimber and still was not reliable. Apparently, they spend more on magazine ads than quality control.

valorius
July 29, 2010, 03:00 PM
Bryco model 48.

akadave
July 29, 2010, 03:06 PM
Beretta 21 Bobcat .22 auto. Man I wanted to love that gun. Very tempermental and just not reliable enough to keep.

Jonah71
August 30, 2010, 05:21 PM
Chrome Llama pseudo-1911 (ghettofabulous)(not mine). It wasn't even that bad, though. I've had pretty darn good luck with autos. Maybe that's why I've never gotten into wheelguns.
Had one of those chrome monsters myself. About as reliable as a Jennings.

Ben86
August 30, 2010, 06:04 PM
Apparently, they spend more on magazine ads than quality control.

LoL! They do have some fantastic magazine ads.

It seems this thread will keep on going until nearly every make and model is mentioned. What I take away is that they all make some lemons, though some more than others. I haven't had an unreliable gun yet, but I have only been a gun owner for about four years now.

ruger1228
August 30, 2010, 07:06 PM
Sig P238-FTF, FTE, and stovepiping.

Alec
August 30, 2010, 07:13 PM
RG model 26. Never got through an entire mag without a jam. I was going to clean and lube it well, but when I learned the slide was made of zinc I put it away forever lest it one day embed itself in my face.

TomN
August 30, 2010, 08:18 PM
Colt Officer's Model. Thing stovepiped at least twice on every mag. Shot this thing over 20 years ago and have never wanted to own a Colt since.

fattboyzz
August 30, 2010, 08:41 PM
llama 45..........king of the stovepipes ;(

Dean1818
August 30, 2010, 09:28 PM
I had a CZ 27 that was 100% perfect with FMJ's

It ALWAYS hung-up on the second hollowpoint

Great little gun though

Surefire
August 30, 2010, 09:40 PM
S&W 457

Failed to feed at least once per magazine, sometimes as much as 50% per magazine.

I feel this was a lemon because 457s I've shot before buying it worked fine. Probably I got one of the worst of the worst.

Traded it for a new revolver many years ago.

handloader357
August 30, 2010, 09:52 PM
I had a Taurus PT 22 that would fail to feed and fire with various ammo... Damn thing wasn't even heavy enough to throw at somebody and inflict pain. I'm not a Taurus hater either, I love my pair of Taurus wheel guns. Traded it for a Smith 622 and love it.

I also built a pair of 1911's and bought quite a few parts from Numrich which I believe were Para Ordinance parts. Most of those parts failed, and the ones that didn't I threw in the trash before they did.

MikePGS
August 30, 2010, 10:00 PM
Ruger MKII. But in its defense it was a rental gun.

wow6599
August 30, 2010, 10:45 PM
Walther P22

Full Metal Jacket
August 30, 2010, 11:23 PM
XD45 midsize. what a steamy pile of crap that was.

Ben86
August 31, 2010, 12:21 PM
I've actually considered buying some of the cheap guns on this list I see over and over just to use as a tool to drill failures. Good idea? Knowing my luck it will be one of the few reliable ones.

dogsoldier0513
August 31, 2010, 12:23 PM
An AMT Longslide.

MTMilitiaman
August 31, 2010, 01:10 PM
HK USP Tactical 45...epic fail.

HOOfan_1
August 31, 2010, 01:44 PM
I have a Llama .45 1911 "clone" that I'd put against any 1911 out there in the under $1000 range.

Yeah, my dad has a 30+ years old Llama .45 ACP. It only likes round nose bullet, but many 1911s back when it was made had the same story. It will shoot round nose bullets like no one's business, which is fine with us because it is just a plinking gun anyway. We've fired 5,000+ rounds through it with maybe 2 or 3 failures to load and those were on extremely lightly loaded reloads. If you load it up fairly heavily, it is flinging empty brass 10 feet into the air

Dobe
August 31, 2010, 01:50 PM
Lately, it's been an HK P30, FTEs. After about a 1000 rounds, it seems to work just fine. I think the P30 is a wonderful handgun. This just seemed to be a problem with some of the first P30. I purchased a second, and have not experience any problems at all.

cracked junior
August 31, 2010, 02:21 PM
my wife has a pink sig mosquito 22lr. it is only reliable with cci lead round nose. its like they made the mosquito for the cci round. i tried the bulk 550 round packs. it wouldnt cycle the slide far enough to feed the next round.

i tried the cci stingers and with those it was to much power, basicly it would open the slide with so much force that it would feed the next round but it would smash the case in there and bounce the slide open and lock it back, while leaving a unfired round in the chamber that you had to pry out. i tried the heavy recoil spring( it came with the light spring installed, heavy is in the case) it still did it with the heavy spring.

so we only shoot the cci that it says in the manual. it came with a 10 dollar rebate if you bought 4 or more 100 round boxes.

saenzrich
August 31, 2010, 05:44 PM
.25auto sundance industries mag held 7 but would only fire reliably with 3 in the mag

doc2rn
August 31, 2010, 05:53 PM
Bersa Thunder .380 shot area of football field at 10 yds, sent it back because crown was messed up they refunded my money.

MikeNice
August 31, 2010, 06:23 PM
I would say a Davis P32 I had when I lived in N. Charleston. Somebody gave me the gun when they heard I was moving down there. At anything over ten feet that gun was "spray and pray." Pull the trigger as fast as possible and pray that you get lucky enough to hit the guy and pray the gun stays together.

The trick to getting it to feed a whole clip was to only load five bullets. I never could figure out the trick to make sure the thing hit with in eight inches of where you aimed it.

The one thing it was consistent in doing was failing to extract rounds. It would bull the case up just enough that the front edge would get rammed in place when the slide tried to return.

Mags
August 31, 2010, 06:26 PM
Glock 23

DocCasualty
August 31, 2010, 08:11 PM
by rhubarb

Ok, I counted them:

Bersa 2
HK 3
Hi Point 4
Raven 4
CZ 5
Tanfoglio 5
Kahr 6
Glock 7
Sig 10
Llama 11
Para 11
Jennings 12
Taurus 12
Springfield 13
AMT 14
Colt 14
S&W 15
Beretta 17
Keltec 17
Ruger 17
Walther 22
Kimber 25

(clipped for brevity)

Just saying. Draw your own conclusions.



Thanks for doing the count. I agree that there is absolutely no statistical significance to any of this. I think it is safe to say that all firearms have the potential for malfunction, even the best names in the business, out of the box.

The info that we would need that I doubt any firearms mfgr has nor would be willing to share if they did, is total number manufactured of any given model, types of problems, those satisfactorily fixed, number of rounds fired, etc. It would be interesting to see what this kind of data looked like though. Any gun board I've been to has bashers of any given make or model, some more than others. Hard to know really if any of that is based on good evidence, personal experience (which is always 100%) or simple prejudice and hearsay.

Interesting thread and no,I didn't read all of it. Stumbled on your post from a search I did. I own a Taurus PT99, Glock 26, SIG P220, S&W 2206, Soviet PM, P-64, P-83 and all of them are reliable. Luck might have something to do with it, IDK. For long arms, my Colt Sporter, Norinco SKS, Benelli SBE, SA M1 Garand and Marlin Model 60 are all reliable too. I can think of a couple of these that did have a little break-in period or didn't like some particular ammunition (forget Thunderbolt in an M60!) but don't really count that as an unreliable semi-auto.

DeepSouth
August 31, 2010, 09:29 PM
You can add another Walther P22 to the list.

Junk doesn't begin to describe the one I had.
Mag feed single shot might come close.

Shimitup
August 31, 2010, 09:38 PM
Jennings .22, any surprise. After smithing I actually got it to empty the mag a few times. I hope my cousin eventually took a sledge hammer and disposed of it.

Ala Dan
August 31, 2010, 10:23 PM
Bryco, Jennings, Raven, Hi-Point, etc. too the list and it overcomes all other's
combined~! :scrutiny: ;) :D

MikePaiN
August 31, 2010, 10:32 PM
The semi that gave me the most trouble both before and after it was sent to the factory for repair was a Kahr PM40. Both fte and ftf issues in every mag(what a joy) and when it did fire, it recoiled so hard the mag followers split....twice

Shadowdancer
August 31, 2010, 11:22 PM
Quantitative significance might not be possible, but the lack of any LB, WC, and EB should be noticed.

killchain
September 1, 2010, 02:24 AM
Sig Sauer P250 in .45ACP.

The gun itself would fire, and never did jam. Functionally, it was reliable. However, the trigger was absolutely horrendous, and the pistol was very inaccurate. I couldn't hit the backstop it was so bad.

I traded it off at a huge loss to get two Kel-tec P-3AT's for EDC. Those Kel-Tecs fire where I point them, and have yet to jam or act funny in any way.

FX
September 1, 2010, 06:43 AM
Tanfoglio Stock Custom 38ACP

Oceans
September 1, 2010, 12:19 PM
A toss up for me, both back in the 80s, I had a Universal M1 Carbine that would not feed half the time and a Randall 1911 commander sized pistol, I think they called it "The Raider". A true "Jamomatic". I traded the Universal carbine for a mostly full bottle of Vodka and a new Jennings .22 LR pistol, which did work fine, and the Randall I sold to a Randall freak. He did not get that stainless hunk of junk working either.

rockheadd
September 1, 2010, 12:21 PM
Back in the mid-70's I went through 3 Stoeger Lugar .22's. They looked awsome and were accurate, but couldn't eject anything after the first 3 rounds...

FruitCake
September 1, 2010, 08:25 PM
My worst experience ever was with a walther P22. I got so pissed at it and did not want to sell this POS to anybody. I ended up putting my diegrinder throught it and put it in my scrap metal bucket. I felt very good afterwards.

Captcurt
September 1, 2010, 09:00 PM
Desert Eagle 44mag. If you didn't feed it top-of-the-line ammo it was useless, and even with the high dollar stuff, it was picky.

huduguru
September 10, 2010, 11:59 AM
Kel Tec P11. Came from the factory a gunsmith special..

WillDe83
September 10, 2010, 12:16 PM
was it a high point or some unheard of fly by night outfit
BTW:i consider xds,mnps, an all the polymer pistols that came out after glock knock offs, so be specific about the comany, if you know.
Another, 'everything that has a polymer frame is a knockoff of the Glock"

I am thinking the Glock must be a knockoff of the HK VP70, seeing that it was around before the Glock. Right. The Glock is just another Knockoff, I guess.

Nushif
September 10, 2010, 02:31 PM
A para Carry 9. In all fairness though, it had not been broken in yet.

Rexster
September 10, 2010, 03:06 PM
Worst: ODI Viking. This was a 1911 licensed to use the Seecamp-patented DA conversion. The DA parts had nothing to do with the failures. I reckon many of these were bad, because they failed almost immediately, as a company. As this was before the age of the internet, poor reputation had to spread by word of mouth; it got back to me that ODI made junk, and I dumped this one. This was so long ago, I have forgotten the nature of the malfunctions, but I believe they were all or mostly misfeeds of various types.

To be clear, the Seecamps were not in any way involved in the production or quality control of ODI products!

Several autos have warped or broken a part during the first few rounds fired, but these were problems that could be fixed/corrected.

Several autos, notably all three of my Kimbers, and a Colt Lightweight Commander, malfed just often often enough for me to either not trust them, or gradually lose faith. Some may say user error, but then what of my other 1911s that NEVER malfed?

chez323
September 10, 2010, 03:15 PM
Can you say Bersa Thunder 380! Biggest piece of crapola I've ever handled hands down! I will not own one, shoot one, even touch one!

Jaybird78
September 10, 2010, 10:33 PM
A co worker had a Phoenix Arms .22 pistol. It literaly couldn't make it through a full mag without a jam.

Funny thing is he asked if I wanted to buy it. I said I was born at night, not last night. LOL

wojownik
September 10, 2010, 10:39 PM
Most unreliable was a CZ-50 that would jam or stovepipe every other round. Atypical for that pistol so I have heard, and I have a CZ-70 that has never had a hiccup (virtually the identical gun).

jaysouth
September 10, 2010, 11:32 PM
My worst was an issued 1911A1 in Viet Nam. If you dropped the slide it would ND. If you fired one mag, you got at least one two round burst. It's finish was totally gone and required half an hour per day to keep the rust off. Accuracy and trigger were terrible.

The holster weighted about 3 pounds when wet, which in Viet Nam was 7-8 months per years.

I "lost" it in a firefight and threw away the mags, holster and cleaning gear. I made up the weight with a couple of extra frag grenades which have a lot more utility than a pistol.

omegaflame
September 10, 2010, 11:45 PM
Glock 34, jammed every 3rd round or so. I attribute that to bad maintainance by the range I rented it from.

Confederate
September 11, 2010, 12:26 AM
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/Sterling22LR.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/DAVIS_380_2.jpg

Pictures are worth 1,000 words...each! I tried Sterlings in both calibers and neither worked. Yeeesh!

bad86ta
September 11, 2010, 12:39 AM
Colt 1991

mjb
September 11, 2010, 12:39 AM
Taurus 92 9mm. Jam o matic. :(

chardin
September 12, 2010, 02:27 AM
L.E.S. Rogak, for reasons previously stated on another thread. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6720672&postcount=329)

A friend of mine had an Iver-Johnson clone of a Walther pistol in .22, if I recall correctly. Sadly, a small downward pull on the trigger guard was sufficient to disengage the slide, and the recoil of firing a shot was often enough to make it so do. The slide would be pushed muzzleward by the recoil spring and go flying. We teased him about his proud ownership of a Class III weapon, the slide constituting a second projectile.

I never found the nerve to fire the gun, so can't claim it was the worst I ever shot, but it deserved a mention as well.

kokapelli
September 12, 2010, 01:21 PM
Diamondback 380

Ben86
September 12, 2010, 02:11 PM
Diamondback 380

I've been hearing a lot of negative about that gun. I hope it is just initial teething problems, because I really like the design.

kokapelli
September 12, 2010, 03:01 PM
I've been hearing a lot of negative about that gun. I hope it is just initial teething problems, because I really like the design.
I liked the design too but it was the most unreliable gun I have ever owned!

writerinmo
September 12, 2010, 04:17 PM
Interesting thread here. I was an old revolver guy, but sold everything off years ago for personal reasons. Just started back in a couple years ago, not much money after a bad divorce and thought I needed SOMETHING around the house, and the .40 caliber had been interesting me for some time. Went and picked up a Hi Point JCP .40. Yep, has a bit of a bad reputation, but I know some will say I must have gotten one of the good ones. Accurate as hell with the fixed barrel. Bought some more magazines from the factory and it turned into a jammin machine. BUT looked close at them, and man... dont know who makes their mags but they need to be beat. I cleaned them up, powdercoated them so they had a decent finish, dremeled the stamping flash off the body and set the mag ears to the same specs as the one good mag and haven't had ONE malfunction in over 1k rounds since.

Bought an abused C9 compensated model off a guy, called HP and had them send me (free) a new firing pin and spring assemble, recoil spring, extractor and spring. Not one problem with it, have around 1500 rounds through it now, accurate but noisy with the comp on it.

SW40VE was my third purchase. Smoothed out the sear assembly to get rid of the gritty trigger pull. Works fine and accurate as long as I stay with heavy grain bullets. It likes the 180 gr in FMJ and JHP's as well. Shoot a 155 gr and it will jam every round.

Picked up a Phoenix Arms HP22 for the kids and wife to plink with. Not a bit of problem unless you want to count misfires where the cheap ammo just doesn't fire. No problems, must have gotten a good one but I don't buy the super-cheap bulk packs unless I want to spend a little extra time clearing out the occasional stovepipes.

Worst ever firearm was my issue M16. Would either stovepipe or FTE like crazy.

Picking up an Armscor M1600 on the first just because it's so damned ugly...

45 t
September 12, 2010, 04:50 PM
kel-teck 9mm. Jams with every kind of ammo I've tried.Tried to save some money. That didn't work out.

gofastman
September 12, 2010, 05:04 PM
kel-teck 9mm. Jams with every kind of ammo I've tried.Tried to save some money. That didn't work out.
same here, my PF9 wouldn't feed WWB ammo no matter how many parts I replaced or polished.
sold it and bought a Taurus 709, best move ever.

1858
September 12, 2010, 05:12 PM
I might have miscounted a few, but the trend is there. Even if I over- or under-counted 2 Kimber posts, Kimber still has the highest number of complaints.

So I'd better sell my Kimber Tactical Entry II and forget about buying the stainless Pro Raptor II that I've been thinking about ..... NOT!!!

As for the OP's original question, the only unreliable semi-auto that I've owned was my first back in '88 which was an Erma .22LR. It was a Walther PPK clone and was great fun but picky about ammunition. When it worked it was great, when it didn't, it wasn't. The only other semi-auto that I owned and got rid of was a Ruger P90. It was very reliable but I didn't like the ergonomics. I traded it for a NIB P220 back in '92 and never looked back. I now have three SIG P220s and a SIG P225. All of the SIGs and the Kimber are keepers.

:)

aka108
September 12, 2010, 05:53 PM
Mauser built PO8 Luger. Beautifully built and finely finished. Loved to stovepipe on a variety of factory and hand loaded ammo.

MillCreek
September 12, 2010, 09:02 PM
That would be the Detonics Pocket Nine. Back when they were still making them in the Seattle area.

Arthur2001
September 13, 2010, 09:28 AM
Llama .380. and a Colt Mustang. Both jammed several times.

capitolpeak
September 13, 2010, 06:52 PM
"i consider xds,mnps, an all the polymer pistols that came out after glock knock offs, so be specific about the comany, if you know. "

an XD is not a kock off of a glock, totally different pistol.

FiveFiveSixFan
September 13, 2010, 07:41 PM
Diamondback 380

Was there only one issue with yours or did it have multiple problems? I've been looking at the DB and the Micro DE but I really like the feel of the DB.

Brian040
September 13, 2010, 10:51 PM
Worst was my Ruger Mark III. Had at least 2 or 3 stovepipes per magazine. That was until I disabled the loaded chamber indicator. Now it is as reliable as any .22 auto can be. On the rare occasion of a jam (maybe 1 every 500 rounds or so) I now blame it on the ammo.

If anyone is having problems with a Mark III at least try to remove the metal tab on the LCI (3 minute job). It's a flawed design that causes many extraction issues.

GLOOB
September 14, 2010, 02:30 AM
My MKIII has been perfect from round 1 to 1000+ and counting. Maybe it's not the design that's flawed. It could have been a flaw with your particular gun?

I must be lucky. I have owned nearly a dozen semiautomatic pistols over the years, and all of them have been extremely reliable. A couple were problematic out of the box, but I was able to fix even those to run 100%.

clem
September 14, 2010, 02:44 AM
XM16-E1, Vietnam, 1967.:barf:

Powerglide
September 14, 2010, 02:59 AM
22 was a joke and made by a drunken Brazilian I bet.A little pocket 22 and it jammed after any shot.Yuck, no Taurus I ever dealt with was worth a hoot.

ET
September 14, 2010, 11:19 PM
Yuck, no Taurus I ever dealt with was worth a hoot.

I own 3 Taurus handguns. I've never had a single problem with any of them. 100% reliable, accurate, good price. I guess mine would be worth a hoot.

AJChenMPH
September 15, 2010, 12:59 AM
Would you believe a Glock 27? Granted, it was a range gun (probably hadn't been cleaned in about 5 years), but it stovepiped at least one round per mag.

Yuck, no Taurus I ever dealt with was worth a hoot.
FWIW, I've had two Tauruses (Tauri?) -- a 709 Slim that had no issues, and a TCP-738 (I traded the 709 for it) which had to go back to Taurus for work on the trigger (look up "TCP light strikes" on TaurusArmed.net). Since I've gotten it back, no issues. (I keep in touch with the guy with whom I did the trade, he says the 709's going strong.)

Big Bill
September 15, 2010, 02:40 AM
Bersa Thunder 380. I traded it off...

G27RR
September 15, 2010, 09:52 PM
Diamondback DB380, which was a shame because it was accurate, a nice pocket size, and pointed nicely. Couldn't keep it though due to all the feeding and extraction problems.

Utahusker
September 15, 2010, 10:11 PM
First Generation S&W Sigma - would have made a decent trot line sinker.
Agreed!

Thorgrim
September 18, 2010, 01:39 AM
Brand new Detonics .45, their first model. It didn't improve with age, either.

4sooth
September 18, 2010, 06:10 AM
Wilson Accu-Comp LE. Would not feed anything--even Federal Hardball from brand new Wilson magazines. Wilson would not even look at the gun--sold it to a local shooter after telling him about the guns issues. He still bought it--saw him some months later and he had gotten it to work.

Had a first gen Sigma which was broken out of the box--firing pin was missing the front half!! Smith fixed it and a friends gun which had the same issue--hand delivered both guns to us and the rep went to a match with us to make sure the guns worked. I eventually sold it--terrible trigger.

M2MikeGolf
September 23, 2010, 07:25 AM
Davis .380. Firing pin broke before I even fired a live round.

Thorgrim
September 23, 2010, 06:27 PM
I've been looking back through the posts, and it makes me wonder if the gunmakers really think about how much damage to their company occurs when they release a new gun that just isn't ready for production. Those things tend to stick in my mind - I won't buy a Brand X, for instance, even though they seemed to have fixed the problems, as I no longer trust them. Pushing that one gun out the door too quickly probably cost them the sale of ten or more over the years since.

Zerodefect
September 23, 2010, 07:56 PM
I've been looking back through the posts, and it makes me wonder if the gunmakers really think about how much damage to their company occurs when they release a new gun that just isn't ready for production. Those things tend to stick in my mind - I won't buy a Brand X, for instance, even though they seemed to have fixed the problems, as I no longer trust them. Pushing that one gun out the door too quickly probably cost them the sale of ten or more over the years since.

Often not the guns fault, but a problem with manufactuing that occurs after that machine makes 10,000 models or so.

And alot of gun companies are pushing things real close. Trying to get away with cast parts, when forged or billet would be surely better. The closer you get to that line, the less wiggle room they have when manufacturing screws up just a hair.

John_galt
September 23, 2010, 10:25 PM
Kahr P40. Only gun I've ever had trouble with. I bought it for carry. Wanted something thin single stack and larger caliber than 9mm. Was my first .40.

Part of the problem was I'm left handed. Largely the design I don't think handles the caliber well. Even after the break in it had lots of problems. FTF, stovepipes. And once a magazine the recoil would drop the magazine. It may have been me being left handed - but that again to me is a design issue. Should be able to fire either hand without a problem like that. When I fired it right handed it happened as well but not as often.

When you field strip and reassemble the slide stop must go in just right. Easier to do it wrong than right. If little leaf of a spring slips underneath the slide stop it locks it open with every shot. It was fairly accurate when it would work - as much as I could expect for the size. Just never trusted it to carry. Really wanted to. I am trying to work up the guts to try a Kahr 9mm. Replaced the Kahr first with a G26, now have a SA EMP .40 which I love and is great. Carry it all the time.

heathen
September 24, 2010, 04:08 PM
My most unreliable auto that I have had experience with was a Kahr P9 Covert. It was beautifully made and very accurate wiht a splendid trigger but you could never get through a full magazine without at least two failures to eject. I tried everything that the company suggested and even replaced the springs but to no avail the problem still persisted. Such a shame as it it the perfect dimensions and fit for a conceled carry gun. I sold it and will probably never own another Kahr.

788Ham
September 26, 2010, 12:45 AM
Bensdad, go onto Wolff Gunsprings .com, give them the make, model and any other pertinet names/numbers, they'll get you fixed up.

Stasher1
September 26, 2010, 01:28 AM
Kimber Stainless Pro Carry II. I've owned a bunch of guns over the past 15 years, and that POS was the only one to give me any real problems. I became obsessed with making it run right (it's the mechanic in me) and pumped several hundred dollars into it instead of getting rid of it. By the time I got it working well, I had pretty much doubled my initial investment in it.

Steve 48
September 26, 2010, 06:17 PM
An XD 45 cal that I bought used that just shoots well and 100% reliable.

kokapelli
September 26, 2010, 06:28 PM
An XD 45 cal that I bought used that just shoots well and 100% reliable.
The Most unreliable gun you have is 100% reliable???

Ben86
September 27, 2010, 02:29 AM
The Most unreliable gun you have is 100% reliable???

Maybe he misread the title.

MrWesson
September 27, 2010, 02:45 AM
A used highpoint c9 would jam every few rounds

after a warranty claim and a replacement it was 100%. I traded it for some ammo at some point.

A ratty marlin 60 I got for $20 would jam every other shot but once I replaced a couple parts its 100%(still have it)

doorman
September 27, 2010, 05:10 PM
Had a Barretta 9000s in .40. Had extractor problems and would leave the spent round partially extracted while trying to feed the next. Thought a product from a company like Barretta should be better out of the box. Traded it for a Glock 17 and never looked back.

pisquali
December 22, 2010, 03:21 AM
Biggest piece of crap bought when drunk. Had firing pin custom made 'cause mf outa bus. Still stalls every other round. JUNK... I'd be better off hittin' myself in the head w/ a ****in' hammer

Lobo_79
December 22, 2010, 06:13 AM
My Kimber Tac Pro II was my most disappointing handgun ever. It caused me to wander away from the 1911 design all together.

atlanticfire
December 22, 2010, 07:17 AM
Well Im not alone. First gen Sigma 40. Im sure the new ones are better but the one I had was a door stop.

PabloJ
December 22, 2010, 09:08 AM
Norinco Model 213 about 2% failure to eject with FMJs (no failure to feed) and depending on brand of slug 10% to 30% failure to feed with JHPs.

fedlaw
December 22, 2010, 09:47 AM
1. Sig P220: Never was able to run an entire magazine. After 1000 rds. I traded her in on a S & W 625.
2. Kimber SS Target IIe with the external extractor: She never was 100%; close, but never made it to 100 in a row. I kept trying, however, because she was so accurate. I eventually sold her after 20,000 rds.
3. The S & W 625: A great gun that eventually was ruined by the "Gun Butcher", a local gunsmith who did the impossible: turned a Smith revolver into a paperweight.

crashbuell
December 22, 2010, 11:02 AM
Sadly, a Colt Govt. 380. What a piece of $#!%... Cleaning it, didn't help. New magazines didn't help. All-new springs didn't help. It gave me new meaning to the phrase, "What's in a name?"

crashbuell
December 22, 2010, 11:10 AM
Second place goes to the S&W SW9m. Also garbage...

milq
December 22, 2010, 11:55 AM
Taurus 709slim. Couldn't get more than 3 consecutive shots out of it without extraction failures, mag catch didn't always work, etc. Back to the maker twice: new extractor, barrel, mag catch and still function issues (multiple shooters had same issues).

HKGuns
December 22, 2010, 02:39 PM
Updated totals....I only updated based on the MFG's listed in the original total. I also discredited one HK vote because the term "epic fail" indicates a high schooler who's vote shouldn't count.

HK 4
Raven 4
Bersa 5
Hi Point 5
Tanfoglio 6
CZ 7
Kahr 9
Glock 9
Para 12
Sig 13
Jennings 13
Llama 15
Springfield 15
AMT 15
Taurus 17
Colt 18
Beretta 19
Ruger 19
S&W 20
Keltec 20
Walther 25
Kimber 30

Looks like Kimber is the big loser here. Especially given their pricing. Also, remember, everyone makes a dud and you're likely to find more duds from MFG's who have a high number of sales. (Beretta, S&W, Colt & Ruger are likely higher because of their sales volumes.) But, this is all unscientific anyway so take it with a grain of salt.

mopar92
December 22, 2010, 03:01 PM
Sadly, my Ruger .45 , P97. The rounds that didn't fail to feed, you could feel that massive slide chunking rounds in. Low recoil, but jammed with every ammo. I traded it for my Springfield xd 40... No ftf ever.

Jonah71
December 22, 2010, 03:23 PM
Bersa Thunder .380 Del. But to be fair, it may have been a design problem with the mag.

Kachok
December 22, 2010, 03:28 PM
S&W Sigma. Worst handgun ever made, will never touch another one.

Cemo
December 22, 2010, 04:16 PM
70's era Browning Hi-Power when trying to shoot HP ammo.

Creature
December 22, 2010, 04:25 PM
Astra A-75 in 40S&W...never made it through a single mag without a jam. And it was completely random at which round it would jam up.

GCBurner
December 22, 2010, 04:29 PM
Beretta .22 Minx. Rimfire autos in general tend to be ammo sensitive, but this one in .22 Short was worse than most.

Howard B
December 22, 2010, 04:54 PM
Add a Kimber 5" in 9mm to the list. Sent it back twice, ended up with a substantial financial loss when I was able to part company with the beast.

Babarsac
December 22, 2010, 05:04 PM
FEG PA-63

Eventually I sold it and picked up a true Russian Mak.

samurai
December 22, 2010, 05:40 PM
Taurus PT145

Stevie-Ray
December 22, 2010, 08:32 PM
AMT Govt. model .45

I really wanted this gun. Waited for it for a week or so while it was ordered. It was never reliable for a full magazine. In fact at first it jammed about every other round. Nothing, including a pounding breaking in with UZI ammo, worked. Sent it back to AMT and it came back only puking once or twice a magazine. Didn't feel like sending it back the 2 or 3 more times it was going to require to get it right. Sold with full disclosure, and traded on a Colt Mark IV.

Mr.Squinty
December 22, 2010, 09:24 PM
The very worst gun I ever tried was my buddy's Charter Arms AR7 take down rifle in .22.

It jammed constantly. Failures to feed, failures to extract, jams, everthing.

It was a rusty can of worms.

Old Scratch
December 22, 2010, 11:02 PM
Colt Government Model Series '70

Factory-new, it stovepiped 40% of the time...took years and many hundreds of dollars to "fix" while other things continued to break along the way.

Erik M
December 22, 2010, 11:51 PM
The second auto I ever owned was a Taurus PT140. It did not even like to function with 180 grain FMJs. Only gun I wish I had never invested in.

hemiram
December 23, 2010, 05:45 AM
I would have to say that the most unreliable gun I ever shot is a friend's Kimber 1911. I don't know the model, but if it shot more than twice, it was a shock. It cost a lot of money for a pretty gun that jammed constantly. It works fine now, but it should have worked without having to send it back twice.

Of the guns I actually have owned, the Colt Combat Commander was the worst .45 ACP gun I ever owned, but the worst of all was the .22LR FTL Auto Nine, which broke both times I shot it. It was a very nicely made little gun, but the extractor broke, the first time because I put stingers in it, but the second time, I had the exact brand and type of ammo they recommended and it happened again. There was no third time. To be honest, none of the little .22 BUG candidates I tried were reliable at all. I ended up with a Beretta 950 .25, a totally reliable little gun. I still have it, about 30 years later.

Ecrevisse
December 23, 2010, 06:51 AM
Glock 23. That was the first and last Glock I've ever owned.

Pete D.
December 23, 2010, 07:32 AM
For me, it was a Beretta Bobcat in 22LR.

About drawing conclusions.......I was happy to see the note that this poll is less than scientific or balanced. As noted, some of the firearms are very common and thus are more apt to have a higher rate of reported failures. If Colt sells 100,000 1911s and there are 20 reported failures that is one thing. If Astra sells 10,000 guns and has three reported failures that is a 50% higher rate of reported failures.
If you list the numbers without production figures, you get skewed data.
Colt 20
Astra 3
Which appears to be worse?
Hope that everyone reads that.
Still......doesn't look good for Kimber.
Pete

da3394
December 23, 2010, 12:47 PM
A DAVIS .380, it resides in the back of my safe and sleeps 24/7. It has FTF, FTE, safety sticks closed and stickes open, trigger will skin your trigger finger after 10 to 15 shots. It is a nice looking firearm though.

gpwelding1
December 23, 2010, 12:52 PM
for me it was a jennings .380.everything from ftf to brass not ejecting.and occasionaly when you chambered a round it would fire as soon as the slide closed!:cuss:

kokapelli
December 23, 2010, 12:56 PM
for me it was a jennings .380.everything from ftf to brass not ejecting.and occasionaly when you chambered a round it would fire as soon as the slide closed!:cuss:
Firing pin probably stuck sticking out because of debris in the firing pin hole.

Paul7
December 23, 2010, 03:50 PM
Kahr P40, followed by Ruger LCP.

Ky Larry
December 23, 2010, 04:11 PM
Tossup between a TEC-9 and a Taurus PT-92, both 9minimeters.
The TEC-9 was a Jam-O-Matic P.O.S. Cheap trash. Traded it for a T/C Contender. Great trade.
Taurus lasted all of 4 rounds before the slide locked up and the rear sights fell off. Traded it for a minty S&W Model-19 4". Another great trade.

TXiceman
December 23, 2010, 06:32 PM
Baby Desert Eagle 9mm...never a miss fire or a miss feed.

Stevie-Ray
December 23, 2010, 10:49 PM
Baby Desert Eagle 9mm...never a miss fire or a miss feed. So what then? FTEs?:confused:

Kymasabe
December 23, 2010, 10:53 PM
Was my old Kel-Tec P3AT. Two trips back to Kel-Tec and I still couldn't get that thing to work right. Sold it.

toocool
December 24, 2010, 01:22 AM
I had an Astra A-80 in .45 that would jam two to three times per magazine, and it had a horrendous trigger to boot. Can't remember if I traded it in or sold it...it was about 30 years ago...

chardin
December 24, 2010, 01:35 AM
I had an Astra A-80 in .45 that would jam two to three times per magazine, and it had a horrendous trigger to boot. Can't remember if I traded it in or sold it...it was about 30 years ago...
LOL! My Astra from 1990 was reliable enough, but I remember its foul trigger far too well. It's like there were bungee cords and marshmallows in the mechanism.

XxWINxX94
December 24, 2010, 01:39 AM
My Luger is a hit and a miss, certain ammo works better, certain ammo doesn't. Overall, it doesn't jam that much to a point where I don't like it.

Also a little Walther model 5 in 6.35mm (.25ACP) jams exactly every 3 rounds. Haven't tried too many kinds of ammo but with a new clip and inheriting it, I'm not sure what the deal was, so I don't shoot it that much.

XUSMICO
December 24, 2010, 12:33 PM
A Walther (not S&W) PPK/S .380

glassman
December 24, 2010, 01:55 PM
Jennings .22

Browns Fan
December 24, 2010, 07:33 PM
Kimber ultra carry. I have a friend who bought a Carry pro that loves it and insists I shoot it one day.

CZ52 until I polished the ramp and a couple of other enhancements recommended by the CZ forum.

HKGuns
December 24, 2010, 08:16 PM
Wrong Thread.

carborfi
December 24, 2010, 11:47 PM
The American Firearms Manufacturing Inc. .25 auto. A real pimp gun made during the 1970's. It will not feed more than one round no matter what I try.

PuddlePirate
December 25, 2010, 12:27 PM
Both Walthers. A PPK and a P99. I have no idea how James Bond has managed to stay alive so long.

Balrog
December 25, 2010, 02:21 PM
Kimbers, by far, are the most unreliable guns I have ever fired.

mopar92
December 25, 2010, 02:39 PM
You can add Taurus .45 to the list if you try to shoot anything flat nosed.... Great pistol on ball or hollow points..

pappi
December 25, 2010, 02:50 PM
My Kimber Gold Combat is totally unreliable.

KosmicKrunch
December 25, 2010, 02:50 PM
Most of the new Smith & Wessons, I am shocked at the trigger actions on the revolvers, they feel like they have sand embedded into the metal. For $600, I want a guns trigger to be as smooth as a babies bottom. Also, the other day, I shot a gun called a "COMPACT - BLOW," Honestly the absolute worse gun I ever fired....A cop brought it into the shop to ask me if I had ever seen one. I said NO. He said they are all over the streets right now in BG hands. This one was a 9mm, so I took 2 rounds of 9mm and shot it into the water chamber. After the 3rd shot, I went to see how the gun faired. I picked it up and the slide literally came off when I pulled the slide back. The trigger had broken and it was made out of POT Metal. I handed it back to him, stating, "If it were me, I would give all the bad guys one of these and 5 rounds of ammo," that should take care of a few bad guys off the streets.

Lobo_79
December 25, 2010, 02:50 PM
You can add Taurus .45 to the list if you try to shoot anything flat nosed.... Great pistol on ball or hollow points..

I know it gets away from this thread a little...but - LOL - you could almost start a food fight by asking who has had 1911 reliability issues when:

Shooting any model that deviates from the basic Mil-Std-1911 specification (i.e. shorter barrel/action length,...).

Or, simply using anything but 230 gr. FMJ ammo.

From a subjective point and shoot perspective my Kimber was a great gun (as are most 1911s) but it's reliability issues were down right scary.

JTH
December 25, 2010, 04:40 PM
This topic just goes to show you that many fairly high end weapons can be POS or until you can figure out what the problem is and have it corrected. So if money and your ego isn't an issue a good old chicom Tokerev is decent investment, glad I bought mine in the mid 90's NIB $110 or even a Hi-Point. Now extra mags cost about 25% of what I paid for the pistol new.
JT

McCall911
December 25, 2010, 05:07 PM
Three:

1. F.I.E. TZ-88 in .41 AE. (Yes, .41 AE) A hallmark of unreliability!
2. Auto-Ordnance 10mm 1911 clone. Dreadful!
3. EAA Witness in .45 ACP. One of the first models. This one soured me on Tanfoglio semi-autos!

Patriotme
December 25, 2010, 05:36 PM
Springfield V10 (.45 ACP)
Total POS and the company never made it right. Unreliable with all ammo brands, loads and mags that were tried.

strmday
December 25, 2010, 07:18 PM
Kel-Tec P-11 9mm. Really wanted this to work but physically broke or jammed so much I absolutely could not trust it. Sold it.

rightside
December 25, 2010, 08:13 PM
Kimbers, by far, are the most unreliable guns I have ever fired.

POS Kimbers:cuss:

btaylor73
December 25, 2010, 11:39 PM
kel tech p3at was my headache gun

SMITHWESS
December 26, 2010, 02:24 AM
Lorcin 380

Prosser
December 26, 2010, 03:20 AM
"Unreliable semi-auto I have shot?"

All of them. Why? I've always bought quality firearms. Semi-autos I've shot, likewise.
Walther PPK/S and P-38
Browning Hi-Powers
Beretta 950 not a single FTF
Sig Sauers
Detonics
Kimbers: both have been flawless, even though I sold one.
Kahr PM9
Colt 1911's
Even Mac 10's, etc. have worked flawlessly for me.
etc.
In short, they have all been equally unreliable, which is another way of saying all have been flawless.

Now, that said, as a reloader, I have managed to make many autos fail to function properly by feeding them ammunition that was not built suitably for their specs. Thats operator, or loader error, MY fault, not the guns.

Merry Christmas
Take the High Road

throw1out
December 26, 2010, 11:28 AM
lorcin 380

mopar92
December 26, 2010, 11:32 AM
That's weird, my V10 .40 is unreal reliable...

SlamFire1
December 26, 2010, 11:58 AM
Also, the other day, I shot a gun called a "COMPACT - BLOW," Honestly the absolute worse gun I ever fired....A cop brought it into the shop to ask me if I had ever seen one. I said NO. He said they are all over the streets right now in BG hands. This one was a 9mm, so I took 2 rounds of 9mm and shot it into the water chamber. After the 3rd shot, I went to see how the gun faired. I picked it up and the slide literally came off when I pulled the slide back. The trigger had broken and it was made out of POT Metal. I handed it back to him, stating, "If it were me, I would give all the bad guys one of these and 5 rounds of ammo," that should take care of a few bad guys off the streets.

Maybe that was a replica gun converted to shoot real ammunition?

This company is selling the Blow Magnum 9mm.

http://www.votesprout.com/blow-magnum-blank-firing-gun-9mm

http://www.votesprout.com/replica-images/replica-weapons-MOD2000B.jpg

buddah
December 26, 2010, 04:22 PM
Taurus PT-22 in 22LR. caliber. Biggest POS I ever owned. Bought it NIB and had nothing but troubles. Even bought a new magazine to see if that would fix the gun. Sent back to Taurus twice to no avail. Finally traded it in to one of those Police gun buyback programs for $200.00 debit card. Tried different ammo. (FTF, FTE, FTF) Couldn't shoot 2-3 rds. in a row w/o malfunction.

Snakum
December 26, 2010, 04:26 PM
Kahr CW series, both the 9mm and the .40. Never again.

Snakum
December 26, 2010, 04:38 PM
Just browsing thru the list I saw Kimber mentioned a few times. This is interesting. One of the guys who runs in my redneck gun-nut/musician/biker circle bought a brand new 1911 style Kimber something or other that was was the most gorgeous 1911 I've ever seen. Just absolutely flawless finish and beautiful wooden grips. Made me want another 1911. But the thing never got thru a single mag with a malfunction, even after sending it back for FTEs. He's ex mil and had experience with 1911 Colts, as do I. We tore it down and couldn't see anything amiss. Tried other mags. Nothing. The thing just wouldn't feed nor eject reliably.

For what he paid and how long he waited for to get it back after the first trip back to Kimber, and having read so many other posts here and elsewhere about Kimber reliability, I'm a little perplexed by the popularity and the price. Everyone makes a dud sometimes. Even Glocks are not infallible. But the sheer number of complaints about Kimber 1911s lead me to believe the problem is rather widespread and common. Why wouldn't Kimber have addressed these by now?

Rollo
December 28, 2010, 12:19 PM
My Colt Series 80 1911 until I my dad game me some Chip Mccormick power mags.

ol' scratch
December 28, 2010, 12:30 PM
A Glock 22 that when ka BOOM while I was standing behind a friend who was shooting it. No reloads, by the way.

A Glock 21. That one ended up being the owners fault. He limp 'wristed' it we found out. It was the only Glock I have ever seen jam. He told me he just bought it to make noise anyway. He bought it as a defensive gun and just wanted to 'scare' people who wanted to cause him harm. Sad really.

ol' scratch
December 28, 2010, 12:35 PM
Just browsing thru the list I saw Kimber mentioned a few times. This is interesting. One of the guys who runs in my redneck gun-nut/musician/biker circle bought a brand new 1911 style Kimber something or other that was was the most gorgeous 1911 I've ever seen. Just absolutely flawless finish and beautiful wooden grips. Made me want another 1911. But the thing never got thru a single mag with a malfunction, even after sending it back for FTEs. He's ex mil and had experience with 1911 Colts, as do I. We tore it down and couldn't see anything amiss. Tried other mags. Nothing. The thing just wouldn't feed nor eject reliably.

For what he paid and how long he waited for to get it back after the first trip back to Kimber, and having read so many other posts here and elsewhere about Kimber reliability, I'm a little perplexed by the popularity and the price. Everyone makes a dud sometimes. Even Glocks are not infallible. But the sheer number of complaints about Kimber 1911s lead me to believe the problem is rather widespread and common. Why wouldn't Kimber have addressed these by now?
I have a Custom II that has been great. I think one of the biggest problems with them are the Mags. The other is the recoil spring. It needs to be heavier.

Before switching from the Kimber mags, my pistol would screw up. It still won't function with the Kimber Mags. My RIA won't either. I use Wilson Mags--No more problems.

savage1911
December 28, 2010, 12:54 PM
I have a kimber pro carry II and have had no problems, but my dad has a cdp II and it had to be sent back to kimber's custom shop to be fixed. Which is odd because cdp stands for CUSTOM defensce pistol? Who knows. He got it back and it runs like a champ. But my base model kimber for about $500 less ran great right out of box. My dad wants to sell and get a Wilson.

Prosser
December 28, 2010, 05:38 PM
My two cents. I think Kimber's really are great, 700-800 dollar guns. The slide, barrel, and major parts are well made. It's the garbage MIM parts that do them in, and yes, the magazines are pure junk.

I have only one Kimber magazine. It runs in my Custom II, but, it jammed my Detonics. The
mouth of the magazine seems to have warped outward, and it locks the gun up.

Wilson mags, no problems.

I think the major problems are when Kimber tries something different, and adds 400-600 dollars on top of the original gun price. People expect them to run like they should for that amount of money. Kimber doesn't test their guns, I guess, like other custom builders, and, they turn out stuff that doesn't work every once in awhile.

I think the vocal nature of the Kimber protests is due to the COST of the guns, and their reliability.

I bought a Custom II to build a .45 Super custom on, and I pretty much replaced everything that counted with Ed Brown parts, most of these forged. Likewise magazines, etc.

1911's have been around for awhile, and, the quality parts are well known. Putting them together in a gun isn't that hard. It's when you try and use mediocre parts, and charge
premium prices that people go through the roof.

I missed Dan Wesson. They now are charging Brown/Wilson like prices for a gun that has all the good stuff in it, and, used to be a couple hundred less then a Kimber Custom.

Guess it gets to a point where what kind of life style you want to live becomes an issue, both for maker and buyer.

Ben86
December 29, 2010, 01:05 AM
Finally traded it in to one of those Police gun buyback programs for $200.00 debit card.

That's a deal! I'll have to remember that option if I ever want to get rid of a POS that I can't sell otherwise!

Tomcat47
December 29, 2010, 01:14 AM
LLama 45 - Shoot 3 rounds....slide locks about mid stride..hold it, hold it, hold it,....about 3 seconds slide would fall back forward, rack another round in it....then fire 2-3 more shots. and thats the way it worked!

Jennings .22 - Stingers make the slide fly through the air in two pieces!

vanguard7
December 29, 2010, 08:55 AM
a phoenix arms 25 auto. 3 safetys then a ftf.

thehootman
December 29, 2010, 11:33 AM
Kimbers are the biggest POS to ever have been made. They took a bad design from Browning and made it even worse.

larryh1108
December 29, 2010, 12:19 PM
Kimbers are the biggest POS to ever have been made. They took a bad design from Browning and made it even worse.

LoL, a funny way of looking for attention. Makes me wonder if you're old enough to own a handgun

savage1911
December 29, 2010, 12:37 PM
I think the name hooterman says it all.

Wishoot
December 29, 2010, 03:02 PM
Kimbers are the biggest POS to ever have been made. They took a bad design from Browning and made it even worse.

Slander Kimber all you want. But to say something bad about Browning??? That's just wrong.

Jaywalker
December 29, 2010, 03:24 PM
Interesting old thread.

Do people with unreliable semi-autos try a change in ammo? I read a couple of comments about 70's Browning Hi-Powers not being reliable with hollow points, for instance. Mine won't chamber 147g or exposed lead rounds even once, so I don't use them - Remington 115g HP have the jacket wrapped into the cavity and so they work 100%. Does that make my HP "reliable" or "unreliable?" I guess it depends upon whether you want it to "feed everything including jagged rocks," or just want to be sure the piece will fire when expected with ammunition with which I've practiced.

The only unsatisfactory autos I've owned were Seventies Colt Commanders, but even they were pretty reliable; I just couldn't take having empties ejected into my face.

JohnD13
December 29, 2010, 03:25 PM
A LLama .45. Gone for about 30 years now, just thought of it when I saw this thread!

PUT'CHA
December 29, 2010, 03:36 PM
I just thought that I would put-in my 5 cents. I once had a star 45, it went south when the slide came-off at the range..:cuss:

easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca
December 29, 2010, 06:59 PM
Vega 1911. I bought it because it looked good, at a time when stainless 1911s were rare. It would fail-to-chamber, fail-to-eject, fail to cycle on even military hardball and with any magazine. Had a good gunsmith go over it and still it remained a Total and Complete POS. Glad I got rid of it.

Customtrigger
December 29, 2010, 07:15 PM
This is a good question, because I had to think hard, so here I go.

I have two specimens: 1. Glock 23 and 2. S&W .22lr.

The Smith had to be repaired around the 400 round marker and with the Glock, I could not hit the broad side of a barn!

However, I have not experienced severe unreliability with an auto loading pistol. At least not yet. Revolvers and long guns I am good to go.

Jackal1
December 29, 2010, 07:21 PM
Honestly: a local sheriff deputy's duty Glock 22, .40cal.

Jammed almost every shot. The deputy stated he only cleaned it once in awhile, the last time was a "year or so ago", even though he practices at the sherrff's range every week. I don't know how he can trust his life to it... He knows it jams and yet he doesn't clean it.

SpaceFrank
December 29, 2010, 07:38 PM
From reading several pages of this thread, the only thing I can say is this: if your gun is
1. From a generally reputable manufacturer (not Jennings, Bryco, etc.)
2. Performing as badly as most internet complaints seem to indicate, and
3. You have tried multiple types of ammunition, cleaned the gun thoroughly, and gotten instruction on proper shooting technique, then

You probably were unlucky and just got a Friday gun that you need to send back under the warranty before you swear far and wide never to buy a product from that company ever again. As has thankfully been stated many times before, every manufacturer makes a lemon sometimes. Some more than others. Some early designs also take a few runs before they work the kinks out, unfortunately due to lack of mfr. testing.

Sgt_R
December 29, 2010, 07:41 PM
The Beretta M9 that I had to qualify with a few years ago. Failure to feed every 2-3 rounds. I still shot expert that day, but I'm glad I never had to carry that POS in the real world.

A close second goes to a 10/22 I once owned. At least one FTF or FTE in every magazine, factory mags included. I sold it (after telling the buyer about my problems with it, of course).

R

magnumman44
December 30, 2010, 12:10 AM
Any AMT!!!

Ben86
December 30, 2010, 01:32 AM
My H&R pardner was a POS when I first bought it. Shells would get stuck in the chamber and the feed latch was out of spec so at random times it would fail to chamber a round when racked. I sent it back and 1 month later it came back and works 100% now. They polished the chamber and replaced the feed latch (as I recommended). It sucks getting a lemon, but sometimes they really can fix it.

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