Traffic tickets and NICS


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rjewell
December 17, 2008, 09:45 PM
So, i went to the gun shop a few weeks back, decided i wanted to buy a new pistol, well i fill out the 4473 and it comes back as a delay, Nothing new to me, happens every time, so five days go by and I go to pick up my pistol, got it home and had it for four days, well then then gun shop called me and told me that the FBI called him and it would be in my best intrest to bring the pistol back, which i did, and he is now holding it for me until i get this straightened out.. So i do the NICS appeal and they send a letter back saying im a fugitive from justice and i need to send a copy of my prints in.. So now im kinda like Eeek!! I go to my attorneys and have him pull my record and the only thing that he can find is that i have a bench warrent from Ohio for a failure to appear for a traffic ticket.. Will this seriously get me denied through NICS?? cause if so i took care of the warrent today, so thats no longer valid.. so should i be good to go back and fill another 4473 for my pistol or what?? I dont want to do anything illegal, I tried searching but didnt find anything that confirmed what i was looking for, so please dont flame too hard..

Thanx
-Ryan

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HeavenlySword
December 17, 2008, 09:59 PM
Prolly an anti agent whos on your case, retain your lawyer

Sinixstar
December 17, 2008, 10:15 PM
an anti-agent on someone's case?

No, not exactly - it's called an outstanding warrant. If you have an outstanding warrant for your arrest, regardless if it's for jaywalking or murder - expect to get denied until you straighten it out.

No conspiracy, no one trying to screw you over, no one being overly zealous. You have a warrant out for your arrest. What exactly are you confused about getting denied?

rjewell
December 17, 2008, 10:18 PM
i just didnt think traffic had anything to do with it!! the gun shop told me that wouldent be a reason, thats why im asking here.. I am a human here so excuse my ignorance...

BTW.. I no longer have a warrant out for my arrest.. I was just kinda asking if it would be wise for me to go back in and do the forms now that I nor my attorney can find anything else on my spot free record or should i wait till the nics appeal is done, because they are taking there sweet ass time..

I just find it confusing because I have had this warrant out for about two years, and have buying guns the whole time until about a month ago..

Bozo
December 17, 2008, 10:20 PM
Sounds like a load of BS to me. You either get denied or you get approved. You sure as heck do not get approved and take the pistol home and then the FBI calls the gun shop to tell you to bring it back.

Sinixstar
December 17, 2008, 10:22 PM
not trying to be rude - my apologies if it came out that way. It's not BS.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nicsappeals.htm


What Prohibits an Individual From the Transfer or Possession of a Firearm?

A deny message from the NICS indicates that either you or another individual with a similar name and/or similar descriptive features has been matched with either federally prohibitive criteria (listed below) or state law.

Are you or have you been:

Convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year, or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years?
Under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year?
A fugitive from justice (the subject of an active criminal warrant)?
An unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance?
Adjudicated as a mental defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution?
An illegal or unlawful alien; or a nonimmigrant who fails to meet certain exceptions to possess a firearm?
Discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions?
A renouncer of U.S. citizenship?
Subject to a court order restraining you from harassing, stalking, or threatening your child or an intimate partner or child of such partner?
Convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence?
NOTE : The NICS must also deny firearm transfers based on applicable state law.

rjewell
December 17, 2008, 10:30 PM
Well then, thank you, thats all I needed to know, im going to go fill my paperwork out and hope for the best this time around since everybody has got their monies and im outta trouble.. lol

-Ry

Sinixstar
December 17, 2008, 10:47 PM
I just find it confusing because I have had this warrant out for about two years, and have buying guns the whole time until about a month ago..


We're talking about a government managed database. Don't try to understand it. I doubt there's even very many people in the government that understand it.

rjewell
December 17, 2008, 11:00 PM
lol.. good point.. so does that mean if and when i have another traffic warrant, that i cant legally own any fire arms and that they can be taken away???

Frog48
December 17, 2008, 11:08 PM
so does that mean if and when i have another traffic warrant

So arrest warrants are a regular thing for you? :uhoh:

No conspiracy, no one trying to screw you over, no one being overly zealous. You have a warrant out for your arrest. What exactly are you confused about getting denied?

Agreed. Seems pretty cut and dried.

misANTHrope
December 17, 2008, 11:08 PM
Sounds like a load of BS to me. You either get denied or you get approved. You sure as heck do not get approved and take the pistol home and then the FBI calls the gun shop to tell you to bring it back.

It's a very plausible scenario, one which I have been party to before. On the first day, the FFL calls in and gets the delay. Three business days go by, during which the FFL does not hear back from NICS. At this point, the FFL is permitted to complete the transfer; an assumed "proceed" if you will. A day or two later, NICS calls the FFL back with the denial. Too bad, the transfer's done.

Though I wouldn't expect the dealer to be calling with this news after the transfer. Probably better than having the ATF show up at your door, though...

Bozo
December 17, 2008, 11:09 PM
He was not denied. He was delayed according to his original post. Then after the mandatory wait period he picked up the firearm. Then they (FBI) called the gun shop and told them to call him and tell him to bring it back?? NO, the FBI does not do business thru a gun shop.

Something is not right with this post.

bensdad
December 17, 2008, 11:14 PM
I don't get suspicious too often, but I gotta go with bozo on this one.

rjewell
December 17, 2008, 11:29 PM
My boss and I do alot of business with the gun shop, he called me out of caution letting me know that the nics came back denied, even though it was past my mandatory 5 day wait period and that the ATF supposedly wanted my adress and phone number and that it would be wise if i just brought the firearm back till i straighten up what was going on.. He said he didnt have to call me and let who ever come and sieze the weapon, well i would rather not have atf or fbi or local pd knocking at my door, so i just returned it and he gave me my appeal form with my ntn number..

And Yes, i used to have alot of warrants out when i was alot younger for traffic cause the local pd didnt like my attitude so when i pulled out of my subdivision i was pulled over and could not afford to keep paying them back then.. i was pulled over every other day damn near until i sold my shiny sports car cause i couldent afford it anymore and got a pick up.. But thats all taken care of now.. The ticket in ohio was for not having a rear plate on a pick up, which had 18,000lb plates, and in the great state of Missouri they only issue you one 18k lb plate and its for the front of your truck.. So i got a ticket for that and a ticket for no operators licence, which made no sence cause it was a private truck with no dot numbers and no buisness name so i just said screw them and im not paying it.. but i guess i have to if i want my guns.. ughhh. there is the story for yall

-Ryan

beatcop
December 17, 2008, 11:55 PM
This isn't rocket science, you ended up with a warrant for "failure to plea or pay" or whatever they call it in your area.

Does it mean your right to own firearms is in jeopardy? No, only your ability to buy from a shop for the time being.

This is probably a regular event (motor vehicle issues) in the ATF's eyes, so unless you're a felon attempting to obtain a firearm, I doubt that they will pursue you for attempting to purchase one.

However, you mentioned you knew about this issue for 2 years, while you continued to buy firearms. If you take a look at a 4473, question 12 d, it says, "Are you a fugitive from justice?". Knowingly falsifying this document is a No-Go. I haven't read the fine print yet, but this could turn into a pile of pooo if you don't handle this properly. Time to clam up...before minor MV issues snowball out of control.

Your position should be, "Oh, I didn't pay a ticket...I forgot...here's a check".

IndianaBoy
December 18, 2008, 12:03 AM
Ah... Ohio traffic citation.


They have so many BS reasons to (generate revenue) write citations its a wonder their highway patrol doesn't run out of ink pens. How can they make a citation for plates stick when you are the resident of another state running lawful plates? I live in Missouri so I am aware of the front plate only for larger trucks.

misANTHrope
December 18, 2008, 12:04 AM
He was not denied. He was delayed according to his original post. Then after the mandatory wait period he picked up the firearm. Then they (FBI) called the gun shop and told them to call him and tell him to bring it back?? NO, the FBI does not do business thru a gun shop.

Something is not right with this post.

I agree with there being some fishiness on the shop calling him. When the store I worked with had this issue, there was no business with us contacting the buyer. In fact, we didn't have a bit of contact with him. Who knows what ATF did with the guy and the gun...

The only way I can see the OP going down as described would be if the dealer lied to ATF and told them he hadn't transferred the gun yet... which I don't see being a smart thing to do.

rjewell
December 18, 2008, 12:31 AM
well I didn't know it was going on two years nor did I even think about it till my attorney pulled up my "criminal" back ground and told me I had an outstanding warrant... I did the right thing and took care of it, hired an over priced attorney from ohio to handle the dirty work.. I hope I can pick up my pistol by the weekend.. I would like to put a few rounds through the s.o.b....

Cel
December 18, 2008, 12:33 AM
I was once denied pistol permits because I had not yet been to court for my traffic ticket. (Over the speed limit) They told me they would not be able to issue the permits until a decision was made in the court. Crazy huh? Of course they didn't have a warrant for my arrest or anything but it was inconvenient.

misANTHrope
December 18, 2008, 12:44 AM
Well, to the original topic: you're probably going to have to go through the appeal process before you can get your pistol, or any other firearm for that matter.

rjewell
December 18, 2008, 01:36 AM
ahh, hell!! don't tell me that, I sent my finger prints off to them almost two weeks ago and haven't heard back from them!! this makes me a sad person!!!

jon_in_wv
December 18, 2008, 05:40 AM
A traffic ticket won't get you denied but the criminal warrant for FTA will as you found out. As its a minor warrant its possible the cops in Ohio didn't report it to NCIC for some some so it didn't show up. Once it was on record and confirmed it showed up with the FBI. As long as you weren't convicted of a felony you should be good to go now. Take care of your ticket next time.

Jeff White
December 18, 2008, 07:43 AM
So i got a ticket for that and a ticket for no operators licence, which made no sence cause it was a private truck with no dot numbers and no buisness name so i just said screw them and im not paying it..

Guess you showed them....:rolleyes: Warrants (as you just found out) don't go away on their own. I have arrested people on warrants that were much older then two years. I think my personal record was a woman who had a FTA warrant for a speeding charge that was 18 years old.

expvideo
December 18, 2008, 08:16 AM
A fugitive from justice (the subject of an active criminal warrant)?

Traffic usually isn't criminal. Was this traffic ticket a criminal citiation, like reckless driving or DUI? Sorry if this has already been answered.

I am not sure if an FTA is automatically considered a criminal warrant, btw. That might be the case, and if someone who knows the answer could clarify that, it would be very nice to know.

So i got a ticket for that and a ticket for no operators licence, which made no sence cause it was a private truck with no dot numbers and no buisness name so i just said screw them and im not paying it..

LOL, I've said that before. Turns out, it didn't screw them at all, but it did a pretty good job of screwing me. Can you guess my credit score? lol

ETA:
WAIT a minute. You don't usually get an FTA for not paying something. Usually that goes to collections, unless the payment was a term of probation. Something doesn't add up here.

Jeff White
December 18, 2008, 10:25 AM
I am not sure if an FTA is automatically considered a criminal warrant, btw. That might be the case, and if someone who knows the answer could clarify that, it would be very nice to know.

Failure to appear is a criminal warrant here. No discretion for the officer, must arrest and bring before the court (although it usually amounts in paying bond at the jail once the subject has been booked).

WAIT a minute. You don't usually get an FTA for not paying something. Usually that goes to collections, unless the payment was a term of probation. Something doesn't add up here.

Here a warrant is issued for failure to pay and the subject must appear before the judge to explain why he didn't pay.

I don't know how they do it in Ohio, but here a traffic ticket is issued and on most charges the subject can plead guilty by mail and send in the fine, or they can plead not guilty by mail and get a court date. The officer marks a court date on the citation and the subject has the option of showing up in court on that day. If the subject doesn't plead guilty and pay by mail, plead not guilty by mail and show up in court, or show up in court on the day that's written on the citation, then a bench warrant is issued.

expvideo
December 18, 2008, 11:57 AM
Maybe it's just a WA state thing then. I have gone to collections over a ticket before and I've had my license suspended due to not paying a ticket (actually a clerical error, but as far as the court saw it I didn't pay the ticket), but I've never had an "FTA" on a ticket just for not paying it. I guess this could vary from state to state.

ETA
I wasn't going to go into the ticket, but what the heck. It's a frustrating story and it bears repeating.

I got two speeding tickets. I wanted to talk to a judge to get them lowered. I missed the court date due to work, so they were automatic guilty tickets, and they had $18 fees applied to them for missing the court date. I was in high school at the time and I didn't have a checking account. I gave my mom cash and she wrote two checks, one for each ticket (+$18 fee). I went to drop off the checks, and the office showed that one ticket had not applied the $18 fee. They took the checks anyway and told me that they would send a refund check of $18. The refund was sent, and cashed. I never heard from the court again.

The court then applied the $18 fee, didn't bother telling me about it, and suspended my license when I didn't pay it, which they ALSO didn't tell me. I found out when I got pulled over.

Long story short, I was CONVICTED of driving on a suspended license that I had no idea was suspended and shouldn't have been suspended in the first place.

ServiceSoon
December 18, 2008, 12:16 PM
A bench warrant can be issued for civil or criminal proceedings. What does the law say about denying sombodies RKBA...

(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—
Title 18 Chapter 44 §922
Unlawful acts

...
(2) is a fugitive from justice;
...

Whether I agree with the law or not, by my interpretation, it appears you need to clear up your civil infraction before practicing your RKBA.

jon_in_wv
December 18, 2008, 05:50 PM
Some of you guys are missing the point. A traffic citation is usually not criminal. FAILING TO APPEAR FOR A COURT SUMMONS is a criminal act in many states and can result in the issuance of a warrant which makes you a fugitive from justice. It varies state by state but that is the case in many. Some states will simply issue a judgement against you and try to access the fine civilly.

rjewell
December 18, 2008, 06:19 PM
I see!!

beatcop
December 19, 2008, 01:51 AM
The horse is groaning....

Your statute may read something like this:

Failure to pay or plead. (a) Any person charged with an infraction who fails to pay the fine and any additional fee imposed or send in his plea of not guilty by the answer date or wilfully fails to appear for any scheduled court appearance date which may be required shall be guilty of a class C misdemeanor.

(b) Any person charged with any violation specified in subsection (b) of section ****** who fails to pay the fine and any additional fee imposed or send in his plea of not guilty by the answer date or wilfully fails to appear for any scheduled court appearance date which may be required shall be guilty of a class A misdemeanor.

This is how a traffic ticket (aka infraction) comes around to bite you.

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