Remington's Quality

[WJR]

I keep reading here and other places that Remington's Quality has slipped over the last 10 years.

My questions are these:

1. In what aspects has the quality slipped?
2. How did this happen?
3. How can it be remedied?

Being a Colt 1911 fan, I am aware of the problems that they have had. After losing a great deal of market share, they seem to be back on the right track. Some people have even claimed that they are now making the best 1911's that they have ever made.

Has Remington lost market share? If people continue to buy new Remingtons then I guess they will not have any incentive to produce better quality shotguns.

I really like both my brand new Express Home Defense with the factory mag extension and my 10 year old Police. The Police is smoother to operate, but it is 10 years old and has had some rounds through it. The only thing I really dislike about the Express is the goofy safety which I am planning to replace with an oversized Wilson.

Thanks for any insight to this issue.

WJR

[mete]

Sadly the quality of Remington guns has gone down in the last 10 years due to the new owners who apparently want to make a fast buck rather than make good guns.You can't do much about it , it's how the management operates. If you want details -- bore not concentric with barrel, barrel threads not parallel to barrel, bore not straight , etc, etc. S&W is another that I wouldn't recommend for the same reasons. There is nothing you can do about it . Just buy something else - savage, browning, ruger or sako .

[dfariswheel]

Like all gun companies, people believe Remington's quality has slid.
I personally haven't seen any real slippage in the Wingmaster or Police models.

Most of the quality complaints concern the Express models.
Many people buy the budget-price Express models, and complain that the finish isn't up to Wingmaster standards. Interestingly, I've encountered several cases of people bitterly complaining about the cheap hardwood stocks and the rough black finish, but weren't taking into account that they had bought a budget gun made to compete with the cheaper Winchester and Mossberg guns.

The problem is, people are comparing the top-of-the-line Wingmaster and Police models to the Express.
The Express uses the same forged and milled steel receiver and parts as the more expensive guns. In order for Remington to offer a gun priced to compete with the Winchester and Mossberg models, they had to figure out how to offer a steel gun at a price close to the much cheaper to make aluminum Winchester and Mossberg.

What had to give was the quality of finish, stocks, and smoothness of the metal. The Express IS rougher and less well finished than the Wingmaster and Police models. It was DESIGNED to be.

Comparing an Express to a Wingmaster or Police model is like comparing a Civic to an Accord. The Wingmaster is the premium sporting gun, and the Police is really nothing more than the Wingmaster with a duller, tougher finish. The Express in no way should be compared to them for fit or finish.

As for production levels, the most recent numbers show Remington making far, far more guns than their nearest competitor, Mossberg. As I recall, Remington made almost TWICE the numbers of shotguns as Mossy.

[Wildalaska]

The best quality of any shotgun out there, except for the higher priced Brownings..

I've seen em work under conditions that would make a Tommy at Passchendaele give up.....

WildtheyarebuilttoughAlaska

[HSMITH]

I have not seen any problems in the 870's except for choke bores cut crooked in the barrel, bent barrels, and choke tubes that are 3 full constrictions from what is marked on them. The 11-87 has the same problems and then some. Burrs in the reciever large enough to jam the gun HARD, gas pistons that the relief sticks open or the relief won't open at all, burrs in the gas ports big enough to jam the piston when they come loose, bent mag tubes, loose ribs and bent action spring tubes. I have not played with the new 1100's.

The only shotguns Remington makes anymore that is a sound bet is the Express line.

[9mmMike]

My beef with the modern Remington is the PC mag tube dimples and non-optional locking safety. It really ticks me off that they offer one model to the police and another to non-police.
I do not agree with mete's post above about not being able to do anything. I have found that the vast majority of folks who whine about Remington's quality have never, even once, written or called to express their concerns to Remington. They go on and on, post after post, crying about the injustice of it all and yet have never done a single thing to try to make a differnence.
You ask what can be done? Call or write IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. Do not spread what you've "heard".
My Express guns run like freight trains.
Mike

[sm]

Personally not seen much slip on the new ones, other than the "made on Monday (hungover) or Fri ( let's party) syndrome. I hate the new safety with the "j" shape key, that thing is a weapon in itself.

Don't shop, or compare much, just what I see out and about,or at gunsmith's.

Still , like dfarriswheel touched on I prefer the Wingmaster and Police models, preferebly older ones. Most of the older have character, nice wood and slick as a whistle...less money too.

Metal to wood fit not a priortiy for mfgs as once was, but agree that Browning still seems to incorporate the metal to wood fit symbolic of the care of internals.

Kinda like having a watch cleaned and the watchmaker does not polish and clean the case. How much care did he take with the movement?

[45auto]

I don't know whether the quality has slipped over the years, but IMHO, they suffered the typical large American company syndrome that had huge market shares way back when. They "pump" them out for as long as they can without investing in design changes that may improve them.

They make changes in production I suspect, but often to keep the cost down and profits up- which is a good thing. But, you do have to look into the future and make improvements just in case of the competition.

Case in point, the 1100. A great shooting auto that virtually had the entire market at one point. But, then as now, they were not known for their durability, after a certain point. They also had to be kept clean.

Beretta comes in and smacks them around with a better functioning, more durable auto that doesn't need the attention of the 1100. Remington tried a little too late and too little with the 1187.
They should have spent some of those millions of dollars they made on the 1100 to improve the obvious durability problems. That should have been done when sales are good, not declining. The "cat is out of the bag" when your sales start to decline.

The 3200 O/U is another minor example. A popular shotgun that could have "evolved" into a continued good seller even today. Discontinued over 15 years ago. From what I understand it required too much "hand work" and basically didn't fit in with their completely automated manufactureing process, i.e. 1100, 870 etc. That's fine because auto and pump sales dwarf O/U sales, but potential buyers of O/U's also buy autos and pumps. So, when they pick up their new Beretta O/U and like it, what auto might they buy next? Friends try your new gun and so-on.

That's a one sided view perhaps. I think they could have done better over the years. I am tired of most of the innovations coming from other countries. As always, I could be wrong.

On the flip side, Remington's revenues are between 350-400 million dollars and they post decent profits. :cool:

Side note: I don't how much of their business is in ammo and which area contributes the most to the bottom line??

[WJR]

Thank you for the replies, gentlemen. As I said in my original post, I really like both of my Remingtons, old and new. I plan to add a Wingmaster to the collection and possible another Police down the road.

Just wanted to see if anyone could put a finger on exact quality issues.

Thanks again.

WJR

[Dave McCracken]

Interesting....

Will be able to add something on this shortly. Picked up my B-day present a little early. The family was overjoyed to give me(Once I told them what I wanted) a 30" Light Contour barrel with Remchokes. This will go on my TB for trap and skeet, on Frankenstein for waterfowl, and Heaven knows what others here.

I'll shoot at some skeet tomorrow night and do some trap Sunday, along with some patterning to establish POI and best spread with my current loads.

Will advise....