(WA) SWAT shoots gun-weilding teen at school


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Andrew Rothman
September 23, 2003, 12:55 PM
http://www.startribune.com/stories/670/4113523.html

Angry Student Fires Gun in Spokane School
By NICHOLAS K. GERANIOS, Associated Press Writer

Published September 23, 2003 0923AP-STUDENT-GUNMA



SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) - A 17-year-old student who was "angry at everything" fired a handgun in a high school science classroom before aiming the weapon at a SWAT team officer, who then shot and critically wounded him, police said.

The boy took no hostages and no one else was injured in the incident Monday. All of the approximately 2,000 other students, plus faculty and staff, were evacuated.

The student was shot shortly before 1 p.m. inside a third-floor classroom at Lewis and Clark High School, annually one of the top academic performers in the state. Classes were to resume Tuesday with crisis counselors present.

Police Chief Roger Bragdon said authorities don't know why the boy brought the gun to school and have found no motive.

Citing two students who know the boy and a police source who asked not to be identified, The Spokesman-Review identified him Tuesday as Sean Fitzpatrick, a junior.

The teen was in critical condition at Sacred Heart Medical Center, police said in a news release. The newspaper quoted the police source as saying the boy was hit in the face, arm and torso.

Bragdon said the student entered the classroom with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun, ordered a student teacher and several students to leave.

"He just walked in, stuck the gun in my face and told me to get out the room," Marjan Khoee, 35, an Iranian exchange student, told The Spokesman-Review. "I asked him, `Is everything OK?' He just calmly told me to get out of the classroom."

Shortly afterward, not knowing what was happening, senior Lee Pearson, 17, opened the door to the chemistry and physics lab and found a metal bookcase blocking the entrance.

"I was going to move it to get in there. As I looked up, standing five feet in front of me was the kid," Pearson told The Spokesman-Review. "He had a black pistol in his hand. He waved it as a signal to get me out of the room. I was kind of dumbstruck."

The boy fired once into a wall and sprayed the room with fire extinguishers, making it hard to see, the chief said. The first officers on the scene had the shooter contained inside the classroom minutes after the first call, Bragdon said.

Negotiators talked with the boy for more than an hour, and SWAT officers surrounded the classroom, Bragdon said.

"He was angry at everything. He was making threats about everything" but did not appear to be angry at any particular individual, Bragdon said.

The boy propped open the door with the bookcase to talk with officers. At about 12:45 p.m., the boy abruptly stopped talking, put on his jacket, climbed onto the file cabinet and raised a handgun at officers, leaving SWAT officers no choice but to shoot, Bragon said.

Evacuated students were bused to the nearby Spokane Arena, where their parents picked them up.

"The school district has practiced evacuation drills and it worked amazingly well," Bragdon said.

The incident ended quickly because the first officers to arrive immediately entered the school and went to the area where the student was holed up, Bragdon said.

The massacre at Columbine High School in Colorado, where law enforcement officers waited outside to assess the situation, has prompted police to make aggressive entries in such situations, he said.

"From Columbine, law enforcement has learned if you are going to stop anything and save lives, you've got to act immediately," Bragdon said.

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Keith
September 23, 2003, 12:57 PM
How long until some moron writes the paper to ask why the cop didn't just shoot the gun out of the poor kids hand?

Keith

KMKeller
September 23, 2003, 01:02 PM
Suicide by cop.

TallPine
September 23, 2003, 01:11 PM
So how did he get past the "No Guns Allowed" sign ..... ?

:rolleyes:

4v50 Gary
September 23, 2003, 01:58 PM
Clearly the kid needs to talk with the Dean of Boys. Perhaps he'll buy him an ice cream cone and suspend him afterwards.

Quartus
September 23, 2003, 02:16 PM
Should have been capped by a teacher before SWAT got there.


Better yet, he should have known not to TRY, because of the high probability of being capped by a teacher.

50 Freak
September 23, 2003, 02:25 PM
Guns aren't bad, kids are.....

Seriously, I think the decline of this generation is due to the lack of physical punishment. Not abusive punishment, but a good swat (no pun intended) in the behind for bad behavior. None of this "time out" crap.

I was sitting at a restaurant this past weekend and a couple brought in their 10 ish little boy. The damn kid was screaming and crying he didn't want to eat there. This was disturbing the whole restuarant, and when the mother was leaning over to tell the kid to keep it down, that little f*cker slapped his mother in front of everyone. The dad didn't say anything as the whole restaurant just kinda gasped in unison. When the dad was forced by the maitre de to "keep the noise down" the kid started screaming "mind your own business..."

Personally I would have grabbed that kid and brought him to the car and severly tanned his hide. But that is not "correct procedure" now a days. Pair the way this kid is being raised with the overwhelming display of voilence on TV, and I think this kid will be the next Manson or Columbine shooter.

Just my .03 cents....

Ari
September 23, 2003, 03:26 PM
"Guns aren't bad, kids are.....

Seriously, I think the decline of this generation is due to the lack of physical punishment. Not abusive punishment, but a good swat (no pun intended) in the behind for bad behavior. None of this "time out" crap.

I was sitting at a restaurant this past weekend and a couple brought in their 10 ish little boy. The damn kid was screaming and crying he didn't want to eat there. This was disturbing the whole restuarant, and when the mother was leaning over to tell the kid to keep it down, that little f*cker slapped his mother in front of everyone. The dad didn't say anything as the whole restaurant just kinda gasped in unison. When the dad was forced by the maitre de to "keep the noise down" the kid started screaming "mind your own business..."

Personally I would have grabbed that kid and brought him to the car and severly tanned his hide. But that is not "correct procedure" now a days. Pair the way this kid is being raised with the overwhelming display of voilence on TV, and I think this kid will be the next Manson or Columbine shooter. "


I was just discussing this with my wife on our way to work today. We were talking about our situation with some of our friends that have rude tendacies and I drew it back to bad parents. I also noted that all of my friends that are compulsive liars all come from single family homes, aka lack of attention. I remember when they began making a big deal of spanking back in the 80's. Notice that it's this same generation of kids today that are so troublesome? And how kids now a days will threaten their parents on calling the cops if they spanked them. Kids now a days have absolutely NO respect for authority, which stems from not having respect for their own parents because they no longer fear them. Time outs just do not cut it. Get as close to hospitilizing them as possible. My kids will tremble at the sound of my name!! Because I love them and they will represent my family name properly in public!

jhisaac1
September 23, 2003, 03:31 PM
slapped his mother in front of everyone. The dad didn't say anything as the whole restaurant just kinda gasped in unison

:what:

ojibweindian
September 23, 2003, 03:39 PM
Discipline is very important to parents, their children, and society as a whole. Too many parents are abdicating this responsibility to school teachers and administrators, clergymen, the government, their neighbors (who are probably just as bad as themselves), et cetera.

My wife was somewhat like that to my 17 y.o. step-son. She'd set boundaries, and the kid completely ignored them. I stayed out of it for some time, waiting to see if she would stand up to this defiance. She didn't, and I had to step in. A few "confrontations" later and the house is much more peaceful, though not perfect.

She would also, in my opinion, over-indulge my 5 y.o. son and 9 y.o. daughter.

Intune
September 23, 2003, 03:46 PM
Levels of discipline. Stern look. Voice. Time out. Swat. Duct tape. Shock collar. (S.C. in bathtub.) The Rack. Pruning shears. Iron maiden. Guillotine.

You should see the list when it's MY kids. ;)

Don't blame the brat, blame the parents.

Andrew Rothman
September 23, 2003, 04:15 PM
Saying that corporal punishment is the only way to raise kids is ridiculous. By the time you have to result to smacking a kid, the battle has long since been lost.

Kids act up (like the little brat in this example) because they have learned that it gets them the results they desire. This lil` sweetheart has learned that he gets his way when he pitches a fit. So he throws a tantrum. This is a result of years of inadequate parenting.

It may be uncomfortable or inconvenient some times, but the response to a tantrum is immediate expulsion from the premises. A stern talking to, couple with threats of starvation, will usually do the trick.

Does that mean that you can never use a swat to get their attention? No. Running into the street or laying with blenders may warrant an "attention-getter".

It is also worth considering whether these parents had simply taken this kid past his point of tolerance. Was he tired? Hungry? Had they been dragging him around shopping for the last six hours? Kids don't have the same tolerance as adults for such discomforts, and once their tolerances are exceeded, all you can do is haul `em home and try again later.

As a parent and a former child myself (:)), I can assure you that fear and respect are not the same thing. Do you really want a relationship with your child based on fear? That's sick.

Matt

Bigjake
September 23, 2003, 04:18 PM
looks like the kid and his parents both need some sense beat into them.

SB1
September 23, 2003, 04:30 PM
Kids only know what they see every day. This child obviously saw that he could carry on without repercussions. I remember when I was small and was out of line, a crack in the but snapped me out of whatever mindset I was in, then I got the talking to boot. But they followed through on their "threats". To this day, the one that always broke me was when my parents would say that they were disappointed in me. That I let them down.

Praise your kids, yet be stern - don't be their best friend. That's what other kids are for. Be a leader.

I hope I rememeber all of this with my first. Coming in January.:eek:

El Tejon
September 23, 2003, 05:06 PM
Jeremy!

Thufer
September 23, 2003, 05:08 PM
I don't think the 17-year-old students problem was lack of discipline or poor upbringing. He just wanted to die and was unable to do it himself. According to the report he was something of an outsider and being an outsider means you can get a better picture of society then those who are a part of it.

Our society is decedent, corrupt, selfish and lazy and there is no end to it in sight. As it gets worse we will probably be seeing a lot more young men and women not wanting to live in this society. What’s worse still is that these young men and women are some of the smartest, which is why they are able to see our society so clearly and are so disheartened by it.

They don’t think there is anything they can do and there is no escaping from it.

Waitone
September 23, 2003, 05:34 PM
I hope the story gets past censors.

Kid brings gun to school bypassing all those signs, metal detectors, and whatnot. Kid get huffy and does something stoopid. Police respond with deadly force when kid draws a bead.

Imagine that. Paying the consequences for stoopid action. I know we live in a world where absolutes are criticized as being politically incorrect. But ya know? Permanent, irreversable, and highly unpleasant consequences may well be necessary.

But then again, my comments all assume media will not edit out the little detail of a gun being used to defuse a hostage situation.

Sisco
September 23, 2003, 06:03 PM
Personally I would have grabbed that kid and brought him to the car and severly tanned his hide.
Try it and the SRS and a LEO will be at your door the next day.
Ask me how I know this.

Jake
September 23, 2003, 06:04 PM
" when the mother was leaning over to tell the kid to keep it down, that little f*cker slapped his mother in front of everyone. "


If this had been me, in my not so long ago youth, I would have been dead. And I don't mean in pain, injured or anything like that. I truly believe that I would be in a pine box 6 feet under.

synoptic
September 23, 2003, 06:11 PM
WOuldn't it have been great if there had been a cop in the restaurant eating and he "arrested" the kid for assault or domestic violence and threw him in the back of the car for a bit just to scare him? That'd teach the kid a lesson. If I had slapped my mother my dad would have been all over me. My kids will know what it's like to get a spanking.....

pax
September 23, 2003, 06:12 PM
"He just walked in, stuck the gun in my face and told me to get out the room," Marjan Khoee, 35, an Iranian exchange student, told The Spokesman-Review. "I asked him, `Is everything OK?' He just calmly told me to get out of the classroom."
Suddenly occurred to me that I need to encourage my sister the public-school teacher to get herself into a handgun disarms class.

pax

Kukri
September 23, 2003, 06:29 PM
Well, I have to comment on this here incident. Lewis And Clark High School plays our school all of the time and I live in the same area. The police said in a conference that they are not going in to install metal detectors because of this fiasco. They said it was an isolate incident and that they don't want any of thoses things coming to Spokane. On the local news they asked parents what they would do to stop this from happening again and they said they would ban guns, install metal detectors and all this other stupid stuff. The little scum was in surgery after he was shot. He should have died in my opinion. The news went all the way to say it was a tradgedy. Columbine was a tragedy. This little punk acted like a big man, and got a hospital visit for his efforts. He used a semiautomatic handgun.

On another note, CNN reported this story and said the kid used a "semiautomatic rifle." Agenda anyone?

Ari
September 23, 2003, 06:44 PM
" As a parent and a former child myself (), I can assure you that fear and respect are not the same thing. Do you really want a relationship with your child based on fear? That's sick. "

Hey, it works for the military. And I've seen plenty of my knuckle head friends come out of it being an actual human being after a couple of years in the Marines. I'm not saying it will work for everyone. One thing for dam sure, there is an absolute night and day difference between my nephew that's got 10 colleges looking at him after he graduates, 4.0 student, top of the class, whom was brought up in sports, church and a military family and father that was a CO in the ARMY, and my little brother in law that's his exact same age that is barely making it in high school, gets picked up all the time drunk, high, going to jail for stealing cars, clothes and DWI and constantly arguing/fighting/stealing with his single parent mother. I know that for a fact. In all the years I've been in my neices and nephews lives they have never DARED say anything remotely challenging to my sister. While my little brother in law will call her a bitch, whore and what ever else in PUBLIC. But he does know better than to do that when I'm around. And my MIL has already given me permission to put his ??? down if he gets out of line.

I'll go with the tried and true proven process here. Besides, I'm not saying treat the kid like a gimp. Just let him know that ???? won't fly here. I'll kick his butt so no one else will have to. This is how I was raised, and have thanked my mom and dad MULTIPLE times for doing what they did to me. Took me a long time till I realize everything they did was for my good. This tradition will continue on in our family. Besides I see where some of my friends are now that I grew up with since kids, absolutely no sense or direction. And the type of parents they had shows.

pax
September 23, 2003, 06:58 PM
Hey everyone,

Y'know, there are an awful lot of posts in this thread trying to tiptoe around the cuss filters.

Don't do that, please. Either find a non-profane way to say what you mean, or don't post.

pax

greyhound
September 23, 2003, 07:01 PM
Jeremy!

I was waiting for someone to bring that up! Guess you gotta be a certain age to think of that one, do they still play that on the radio?

El Tejon
September 23, 2003, 07:08 PM
grey, wasn't Pearl Jam from Seattle? Copycat killing?

techmike
September 24, 2003, 10:17 AM
" As a parent and a former child myself (), I can assure you that fear and respect are not the same thing. Do you really want a relationship with your child based on fear? That's sick. "

I don't agree. IMHO Respect is a concept that young minds can't quite grasp. When I was a teenager I interacted with my parents based on two emotions...Love and Fear. As an adult I love and respect them, but as a youth fear got the job done.



If this had been me, in my not so long ago youth, I would have been dead. And I don't mean in pain, injured or anything like that. I truly believe that I would be in a pine box 6 feet under. :D

I know that feeling...I am plenty removed from the days of my youth but I remember calling my Mother a name that Art's Grammaw would not have approved of. Then Next thing I remember is sitting on the floor with my head ringing and wondering where that semi came from.


And I won't EVEN go into the time I thought I could take my dad in a fight.

p35
September 24, 2003, 10:30 AM
My oldest son was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at age 5. To watch the way he acts when his meds are off or he's having mood swings, you would think that his mother and I are the worst parents in the world and he's the biggest brat. Now, he's doing well in school and acting like the great kid he is, but it's taken an incredible amount of time and work to get him there.

I've gotten all the dirty looks and rude cracks from people who have no idea what we're dealing with. Walk a mile in my shoes before you start condemning people for how their kids act. Parenting may be at fault in a lot of cases, but not all of them.

Ari
September 24, 2003, 11:34 AM
That's something I didn't know about. And it's something I'll take into consideration next time I see something like that in public. It must be very rough. All the best to your son.

illuminatus99
September 24, 2003, 12:41 PM
my mother is irish and cherokee, if I would have slapped her like that her grandchildren would be born bruised.

I grew up going to school with lots of these kids who were never physically disciplined, every one of them I've known has ended up being a screwed up adult. my sisters ex-boyfriend for example was raised that way too, he wouldn't spank his kid for anything but he had no problem hitting my sister...

LiquidTension
September 24, 2003, 01:21 PM
I saw the discipline change firsthand in high school. When I was a freshman, you'd never dream of trying to start something with an upper classman - you'd probably get your butt beat down and trying to fight someone for no reason is just plain rude. By the time I was a senior, the freshmen were talking all kinds of trash to everyone - other freshmen, upper classmen, teachers, adults. It must be that stuff in the 80s about spanking. My parents spanked me and I turned out fine.

Wait, the underlying problem has just occurred to me! Since these little brats were not spanked as children, they have a subconscious desire to get beat down as they get older to make up for what they didn't receive when they were younger! Maybe I'll take a walk through the mall and try to help some of these kids out :evil:

Sisco
September 24, 2003, 02:51 PM
P35; Been there, done that.
Usually held my tongue when I'd hear people say something like "If that was my kid I'd give him a good asswhippin' for doing that".
Finally told a guy one day that next time his kid had an asthma attack, he should just give him a "good asswhippin'" and he wouldn't ever do that again.
Both are medical problems, different symptoms.
Not saying they're aren't a lot of brats out there that would benefit from corporal punishment, just isn't useful in some cases.

Standing Wolf
September 24, 2003, 10:12 PM
Nobody was quoted as saying, "But he was a good boy." I was disappointed.

p35
September 25, 2003, 10:10 AM
I was just hearing another kid with the same problem describe it as "having a bomb go off inside your head". I tried everything in the way of discipline short of abuse with this kid, and it didn't have the slightest effect. It was only when we figured out that it was a medical problem and got him the right treatment that he settled down. He doesn't like being out of control or having everyone else angry at him any more than anyone else would, but it's something he has no control over without help.

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