Reloading 7.62x39.

I heard that, for better accuracy and performance, reloading a 7.62x39 can be a good deal. Some have told me that unless your buying Wolf ammo (or similar cheap-o ammo), reloading can be cheaper on a per-bullet basis.

So having never re-loaded a 7.62x39 before, how would you do it? Any particular primers, powders, bullet and brass I should be wary of? Is there any consensus on what set of said parts is good for accuracy and performance?

the ONLY powders a person needs to look at for loading 7.62x39 with 12X grain bullets is AA1680 or N-120

also most 7.62x39 rifles will shoot the much cheaper, more avalible and higher quality selection of .308 diameter projectiles with equal accuracy to .310 bullets. Just make certian to buy a set of dies that come with expander balls for both diameters. I use Lyman.

Lee dies come with both .308 and .311 expanders.

The down side of reloading x39 is that free/cheep boxer primed x39 brass is not abundantly available (almost all of what you'll find at the range is steel cased import cases).

That and most semi auto x39 rifles are pretty hard on the brass.

Mods can be made to the rifle to reduce/eliminate denting.

Casting your own is where the real economy comes in, as paying $.25/bullet pushes you over the cost of Wolf.

the ONLY powders a person needs to look at for loading 7.62x39 with 12X grain bullets is AA1680 or N-120

For accuracy, my CZ527 Carbine has a definite preference for H335, though velocity is higher with AA1680.

So having never re-loaded a 7.62x39 before, how would you do it? Any particular primers, powders, bullet and brass I should be wary of? Is there any consensus on what set of said parts is good for accuracy and performance?

I just got through loading 1700 rounds.
1. sort by head stamp.
2. I used WLR primers, no problems.
3. Use whichever powder you like. I use RL 7.
4. I used 3 different bullets: 123 grn .310 Lapua, 124 grn .311 Hornady, and a bunch of bulk .308 FMJ. (can't remember the brand because I bought them over a yr ago.

I also tried 1680, and H322 (I'll have to look in the shop tomorrow to verify the brand names.). My best shots came from RL-7. with the Hornady bullets. The working load ended up being 24.2 gn of RL-7.
Please, do NOT take my loads as a start point. Work your loads up based on the reloading manual.

H322 is a very good powder for the 7.62x39mm....

H322 is a very good powder for the 7.62x39mm.
The only thing I didn't like about that powder was it seemed to be dirtier than the RL. The 1680 didn't do that well for some reason, I'm not sure why yet.
I did the workup with the 3 different powders in 5 round batches and worked up to just below the maximum. I based all my loads in the Serria and Hornady manuals. The rifle is a CZ 527 carbine with a pretty cheap scope and everything was shot from the 100yd open range.

the cheap PMC brass-cased ammo doesn't shoot all that well but the cases are good for reloading.

I bought 1000 bullets when Midway had the big blemished bullet sales a few months back, but I have not reloaded any yet. I have H322 & H335, so that is what I will try first.

all my x39 loading (and I've experimented with several bullets now) has been w/ A1680, and I can't say that it has given me stellar results.

Well, I've had mediocre results with 1680, which is memory serves, was designed for this cartridge. I have a few SKS variants, but also a custom bolt action in .308 x 39 (barrel is .308, not .311, so I have more bullet options).

I have to wonder sometimes if I'm trying to put lipstick on a pig... :scrutiny:

I get darn good results with 1680 and my vZ-58, and disappointing results with H335 and H4895, so far, even though the manufacturer lists loads for both of those flavors. Hard to come by 1680 around here for some reason.
kasTX, what's the load your CZ likes the best? I've been using Hornady 123gr SP, but have a mould for a 160gr cast I am going to try someday...whenever I get around to getting the lead pot going again.

kasTX, what's the load your CZ likes the best? I've been using Hornady 123gr SP, but have a mould for a 160gr cast I am going to try someday...whenever I get around to getting the lead pot going again.

The results below are with the Hornady 123gr FMJ, 50 yards with the iron sights, but I get pretty much the same results with the spire points, which I have used with great success on deer. With a fixed 4x Sightron scope on it, I get the same groups at 100 yards. All loads are from the Speer 13 manual, but work up from starting loads, etc, etc. Velocity with 31.5gr was 2,241fps average.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e120/HeywoodJ123/CZ527123FMJH335.jpg

It obviously favors the middle load. I have another set of targets that tells the same story, but with 123gr Winchester Power Points (though the overall accuracy is not as good).

Hmm, will experiment with your data. Thanks!

Speaking of being over-gassed and hard on brass, there's a good thread on Cast Boolits about modifying the SKS gas system so it isn't so hard on brass.

Here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=30428&highlight=modify+sks+gas

Well, I've had mediocre results with 1680, which is memory serves, was designed for this cartridge. I have a few SKS variants, but also a custom bolt action in .308 x 39 (barrel is .308, not .311, so I have more bullet options).


I've had the most excellent results with AA1680, perhaps it's the small rifle primers that make the diffrence. My 5 shot AA1680 groups from my .30x39 typically run in the .3's

kasTX, I found that 2450fps was attainable with that bullet weight in a CZ carbine but only with AA1680

I found that 2450fps was attainable with that bullet weight in a CZ carbine but only with AA1680

Are the 123gn bullets .308 dia??. I have a box of Sierra .311 left and haven't decided which powder to use, 1680 or the 322. When I loaded the RL7 at 24.2gn I was right at the bottom of the neck (except the Starlines which have more volume). If were to push 322 or RL7 to 2450fps I'd be compressing the loads. On the other hand the 1680 is flake and I could do it.

They work great with cast bullets and 2400.

CDD

I loaded some back in 1999, and still havent shot them.

I don't get out much.

Are the 123gn bullets .308 dia??. I have a box of Sierra .311 left and haven't decided which powder to use, 1680 or the 322. When I loaded the RL7 at 24.2gn I was right at the bottom of the neck (except the Starlines which have more volume). If were to push 322 or RL7 to 2450fps I'd be compressing the loads. On the other hand the 1680 is flake and I could do it.

I used either diameter just depending on what I wanted to do, accuracy was the same either way

've had the most excellent results with AA1680, perhaps it's the small rifle primers that make the diffrence. My 5 shot AA1680 groups from my .30x39 typically run in the .3's

Wow, good for you! :what:What bullet are you getting that sort of result from? It's reloading time (winter! In Minnesoviet!) so I'd like to give it a whirl. Most of my brass uses Large Rifle primers, but I do have some Small Rifle brass. I have plenty of AA1680 left.

Do let me know, if you please. That's a standard of accuracy worth pursuing!

Every one I have is large. I think I may have a single small on left. And I have no small rifle primers.

Is there any data listed for 2400?

Wow, good for you! What bullet are you getting that sort of result from? It's reloading time (winter! In Minnesoviet!) so I'd like to give it a whirl. Most of my brass uses Large Rifle primers, but I do have some Small Rifle brass. I have plenty of AA1680 left.

Do let me know, if you please. That's a standard of accuracy worth pursuing!
__________________

My bullet of choice that's produced the smallest groups is the 125grn Speer TNT hp.

Stoked by a stiff bolt action only charge of 28.0grns of AA1680 as per the old Speer No12, lit off with a CCI br4 primer. From my 26" 1-15 twist barrel this load motorvates out at 2700fps


H355 produces even better groups (.258" all time best) but velocity is down a good deal from what aa1680 achieves. In the little CZ carbine for hunting loads I would gladly compromise a tiny bit of accuracy for 200fps more MV




I'm quite curious. What are the specs on your .30x39mm bolt gun?

The Hornady 123gr Sp are packaged in boxes that actually say 7.62x39mm, and are .311 in diameter. I have not tried any .308 in any one of my 7.62x39mm rifles, as they are all combloc.

28gr 1680? According to my Loadbook, Speer data says that is the max load for thier 125gr, and it's compressed.

ar10, I have 10 Remington cases that take small primers, and oddly enough, I always find all 10. they have had about 5 or 6 loads through them so far, and in great shape.

28gr 1680? According to my Loadbook, Speer data says that is the max load for thier 125gr, and it's compressed.

in newer manuals that particular load has been greatly reduced, it's been my experiance that semiautos start to get unhappy with charges over 26.0grs

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2274479#post2274479
more on .308 vs .311 bullets through a .310 bore

and tests of various loads and ammo in rifles with vastly differing barrel lengths
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5111739#post5111739

Thanks for your tip on the bullet and load you're doing so well with. I'll wind up ordering some components in the next few days and will add those to the list.

You asked about my boltgun - I had a Turkish Mauser converted with a kit available from Numrich - .308 x 39 barrel, mag plug (to shorten it). I had a smith glass bed a stock he had on hand, had the bolt bent and put a Timney trigger and new safety, scope mounts. When I'd paid for the parts and work, I just could have bought a CZ carbine instead :scrutiny: but hey, everybody who's into firearms should have something built custom at least once in their lifetime.

I do a lot of reloading anyway, and have .308 bullets of several kinds for the other 30 caliber firearms I have on hand. Having a solid boltgun with a long
enough mag to use longer bullets, I figured I could have some fun with some
150 grain stuff. Some folks will point out that the Russian round is only overshadowed a bit by the .30-30, and with good handloads and no worries
about detonating everything in your tube mag by using Spitzer bullets, I figure
it'll do okay on anything you'd want to do with a .30-30. I just haven't played with loads for it enough to get the kind of accuracy you're getting.

Thanks again for sharing - long winters up here means a bunch of time at the loading bench. :D

I just haven't played with loads for it enough to get the kind of accuracy you're getting.


My rifle has a lot to do with my results. It 's a Stevens200 action that started out life as a .223 that now wears a 26" Shilen bull barrel. It's a full on 18lb bench only proposition with a 1lb trigger and a Leupold 36x scope that I obtained in trade for my cz527

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/HPIM1990.jpg

more on hunting with 7.62x39

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=405210

ar10, I have 10 Remington cases that take small primers, and oddly enough, I always find all 10. they have had about 5 or 6 loads through them so far, and in great shape.

Thanks, but nope. I got rid of a bunch of the Remington BECAUSE they were small primers a few months ago. Of course back then I was dumber. :uhoh: I'll stick with what I have for now and pick up some more when it thaws out next spring. I do have about 200 more Win cases that I'm going to try with 1680 as soon as I get my Sierra order sometime next week.

LOL AR10 aren't you the fellow who sold a bunch of small primed range pickups to me...... if so sorry bout that

I don't have a clue. I dumped a bunch of brass awhile ago. But since you brought it up. I've got a boat load of .45's you can have IF you would take a look at a couple of sample .308 cases I just finished if you're interested.

(I traded an xd 9mm sub for a new xd45 and hated it, after I collected a bunch of .45APC cases. I traded that for a new new xd .40sub. which I'm a lot more comfortable in shooting).

I have no .45 of my own my handguns are chambered in .32acp and 30-30

What do you need done with the 308 cases?

Since I was putting in a Midway order, I went ahead and got the Lee .314" sizing die.

My Saiga slugs at .312 and I just haven't been able to get good results from my 312-155 mold with WDWWs, when checking and sizing w/ the .311 die.

The bullets drop from the mold at .312, so all I'm looking for the .314 die to do is seat and crimp the checks, and I'll shoot the bullets as cast.

I looked at both Cabella's and Kittery Trading Post on several occasions, and no one stocks it.

So, I guess it's time to visit Bob and Rog, down and the garage and replenish my wheel weight inventory.

Might's well get my brake light fixed while I'm at it :), I'm happy to toss these guys a bone whenever I can, as they're always fair and I'm not much interested in working on the truck in a snow bank.

the ONLY powders a person needs to look at for loading 7.62x39 with 12X grain bullets is AA1680 or N-120BTDT for a number of years, and frankly my rifles prefer H4198 for 123-125gr and 150gr bullets. I use H322 for the 174gr RN. I only use CCI primers, and I use Remington small primer brass.

At this point, I'm using mostly Hornady bullets, altho I took a 500lb hog with the Sierra 125gr SP.

I've tried IMR 4227 and some Golden West Brass 124gr FMJs out of my 16" Model 1 upper on my AR. Didn't really shoot any better than the com bloc ammo I have. They were more consistent. No 3" flyers wrecking the groups. Not sure if it was the powder or the bullets. I now have some of those loaded over 23.5grs of AA 1680 and some Hornady .310 123gr V-max bullets with the same powder charge. But for the last 3 weeks, the weather has been just horrible, so I haven't tried them out yet. Right now it's 4 degrees outside. Hard to test when you're shivering.

When I was preparing to start loading the 7.62 Short (x39) I bought 500 Federal once-fired cases from an Ebay seller.

The brass looked fine, but the neck-wall thickness varied all over the map. Some cases didn't contact the expander ball at all after sizing, some felt "normal", and some were very tight to withdraw over the ball after sizing.

I disposed of all the Federals and now have only Winchester brass, which exhibits none of the above faults. Neck thickness is important to me because I'm loading for a bolt-action Ruger and using cast bullets. Consistency under these circumstances is rather critical.

I hasten to add that I've used plenty of Federal brass in other calibers, and it was just fine.

Now that you mention that, I used the 308 expander ball for my brass as some bullets were too loose with the 310 ball. After that, no problems. I was surprised they seated just fine. Thought I'd have to use my universal expander die to flair the case a little but I didn't.