Sig P250 vs FNP 9


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matai
December 19, 2008, 02:28 AM
Hi, I'm looking to buy my first "real" handgun. I've shot tons of different handguns and rifles, but only own .22's. I hope to spend a lot of time at a local indoor range to practice with a 9mm which I figure will be a lot cheaper to train with than a .40 or .45 which I'll get later. I'm really liking the Sig P250 and FNP 9, they both feel great but my range doesn't have either of them to rent. Do any of you experts have any advice on a good first 9mm? Especially between the Sig P250 and FNP 9?

Thanks

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bpsig
December 19, 2008, 03:56 AM
I would go with a proven one the fn has been out a while. It works the 250 is new not a lot of reports or feedback out on it.

matai
December 19, 2008, 04:40 AM
That makes sense, how do you think that XDM would compare?

basicblur
December 19, 2008, 05:11 AM
XD's are great firearms-I'm pretty picky 'bout the grip, and the XDM just has too much hanging out the bottom for me. I much prefer the "old" XD line-my main CC is an XDSC40 with Pearce grip extender (backup mags are the extended versions). If I had it to do over again, I'd probably go for the 9 just for reduced muzzle flip on a sub-compact XD40.
Unless you have some compelling need for the extra rounds afforded by an XDM and/or big hands, I'd handle different XD's and see what you think.

Grips are getting a bit on the big side (I wear medium gloves), but I'd check out the SIG SP2022. I've checked out a P250 and wasn't impressed at all-first SIG I can remember holding that left me feeling like it was a cheap gun! The modular stuff's interesting to read about, but I'd rather stear clear and stick to the simpler stuff!

Didn't really need one, but I'm short on 9mm and the last gun I bought was the SP2022 since many dealers apparently have a special on 'em-$495 includes night sights and 3 magazines.
http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=33&productid=121

RonAMOK
December 19, 2008, 10:31 AM
First my bias, I like my Sigs, a lot. Bought a slightly used FNP 9, to have the little brother to my FNP 45. Had it for 2 range sessions, 300 rounds. My experience was all good, 100% reliable with fmj and the hollow points I use, good accuracy, and good feelings about it, would carry it. But traded it for a used Sig 250 in 9mm. It felt and pointed better IMO. I’ve only had one range session with it, 160 rounds of hollow point, also 100% reliable with good accuracy. Neither will replace my Sig 229 at the top of my 9mm carry list and both rank under the Sig 2022 and K9 Kahr as carry choices.

I’d also recommend checking out the Sig 2022. It doesn’t have the classic Sig feel; buts points right and shoots good, for me. I’ve never shot an XD so my opinion is based on how they feel and the grip feels small, not enough web contact.

I’d rank the guns discussed so far as fallows:
FNP 9 – good gun / best value
Sig 2022, XD/XDM 9 – good guns / good values
Sig 250 – good gun / interesting concept (may become more than “one” gun)
K9 – good “small” 9mm / surprisingly accurate, not light
Sig 229 9mm – best gun / IMBO (in my biased opinion)

Even if you picked one of the above guns out a hat and bought it, you wouldn’t get a bad gun. So pick something YOU like about one, best deal, best feel or most interesting and buy it. Then get out to the range and enjoy it. If you don’t like it as much as you thought you would you can buy something different or trade it for something different. I have, lots of times, even on my modest income.

Have fun shopping and don’t worry so much about buying “the best gun,” YOU will determine that on the range, over time, more fun.

After all that yakking, I think I’ll recommend the FNP 9, because it has a more “standard” setup, for a first/learner pistol.

Personal note: Looks like I’m having a “good” day.

Jim Watson
December 19, 2008, 10:48 AM
Consider the action type.
The FNP9 is a DA-SA. For target shooting you can leave it cocked and shoot SA. For carry, you will have to work on the DA - SA transition. There is a SA version, if you can find one.
The P250 is a DAO with long reset. Like shooting a pretty good DA revolver. I like it but then I have shot a fair amount of revolver.
The XD family has a consistent trigger action, not quite DA or SA, but at least the same all the time. I think they made a mistake bringing out a new variant with non-interchangeable magazines and similar model designations. That is going to bite some people in the butt.

Marcus L.
December 19, 2008, 11:06 AM
I am a huge Sig fan, but I would pass on the P250. If you want a Sig, get the P210, P226, P228, P229, P232, or the P239. I have not been very impressed with the polymer Sigs or the P220 .45acp.

gglass
December 19, 2008, 01:23 PM
I almost went with the P250 for the feature that would allow you to drop in different caliber guts as needed. Then, I found out that those drop in caliber change outs cost $350+ whick is nearly the cost of a new gun in many other brands. After doing even more research I discovered that the P250 has been a veritable "flop" and that the company is considering a redesign of the P250 trigger assembly for the US market.

I chose instead to go with the M&P line for the reasons stated in the reviews below:


http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=777
http://www.gun-tests.com/issues/20_1/features/Full-Size-Pistol-Comparison5574-1.html
http://www.handgunsmag.com/featured_handguns/polysh_032707/
http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/mp_080806/
http://www.handgunsmag.com/featured_handguns/swmp_032906/
http://www.policelink.com/products/products/368-smith-wesson-mp-40

basicblur
December 19, 2008, 02:16 PM
I’m basing my comments on the fact that I’m assuming you have an eye on SD and CC for your choice?

Apparently others feel the same as I regarding the P250 :barf:, which means if your tastes change you may have problems selling it down the road.
As someone else stated, when you start talking ‘bout conversions I’ve usually found the price is so high I’d rather just buy another gun instead of the conversion. Also, since most of my guns are bought with an eye towards SD, the thought of (constantly) changing out parts in a SD gun just doesn’t really appeal to me.

My recommendations were based on trying to save you some money, but if money's not a problem, nuttin' wrong with a SIG P229R!
The pragmatist in me says go with the cheapest, quality gun that you think you like, since you're on a steep learning curve (being your first “real” gun). Chances are good that while folks in here can steer you to a fine sidearm, you're going to develop likes/dislikes down the road. It would be nice for yourself if you at least pick your first one with an eye toward selling it later as you learn what you like/dislike.

With that in mind, IMHO in no particular order:
1. SIG P229(R?) One o' my main CCW in winter, but pricey!
2. SIG SP2022-check grip size, and it is slightly bigger than the P229R. Starting to get a bit big for CC in warmer weather. A good buy for $495 with night sights and 3 magazines!
3. XD "old" line-probably wouldn't have any trouble re-selling as they're extremely popular, and despite what some will tell you, the grip safety is a viable feature (remember Plaxico?). There seem to be a lot of discharges with Glocks-I don’t know if folks are doing so with their finger or something is hanging the trigger while re-holstering. With a grip safety, conventional wisdom says in addition to keeping your finger out of the trigger, you place your thumb on the back of the slide as you re-holster, which will remove the web of your hand from the grip safety and also prevent the slide from moving rearward should the gun hang on something while re-holstering.

You're going to have to decide which trigger style you prefer, and what type of safeties you'd like (if any). My SIG's are the DA/SA type since that's what I grew up on and am used to (as well as the heavier trigger pull of DA revolvers).
Remember, there appears to be a “problem” with folks going off the deep end AFA wanting a (hair) trigger good for shooting targets. In a SD weapon, you want a trigger pull heavier than on a range queen. If you can’t shoot just because of a heavy trigger pull, you need to learn!

Also, might not hurt to get a copy of Massad Ayoob's Book of Concealed Carry!

justsumguy12
December 19, 2008, 05:46 PM
I rented the P250 at the range the other day along with the P229, and I loved the 229, and hated the 250. The main problem with the 250 to me is it had a very long trigger pull. It also just had a cheap feeling to it somehow. So I'd probably go with the FNP over the p250 - but I haven't shot the FNP so I'm not sure how that one feels. I'd also take a look at the M&P's as well, as I really like how those shoot.

Marcus L.
December 19, 2008, 05:50 PM
If Sig would get rid of the awful DAO trigger and install a classic DA/SA trigger with decocker......it might be a real winner.

Jim Watson
December 19, 2008, 06:20 PM
If they would get rid of the DA-SA crunch-tick with a proper thumb safety, it would REALLY be Right.

Marcus L.
December 19, 2008, 06:40 PM
If they would get rid of the DA-SA crunch-tick with a proper thumb safety, it would REALLY be Right.

Yeah, one of those thumb safeties......

"...the ideal police pistol would essentially be of simplistic operation akin to that of a service revolver. The pistol should not require any additional steps to fire other than simply pulling the trigger." -Officer Alex Clayborne in 1968 in his journal called "The Ideal Police Pistol".

"We recommend that law enforcement agencies move towards pistols that do not have manual safeties or other devices that require additional action other than pulling the trigger. Under combat stress conditions it is of more benefit to the operator to be able to unholster and fire with limited muscle memory than any added safety conditions offered by manual safeties or single trigger condition benefits. Decades of field observations support this finding."
-Agent Urey Patrick of the FBI from "Law Enforcement Firearms Briefing" at Quantico, VA in 1989.


There might be a few poe-dunk agencies that still authorize the use of manual safeties, but savvy agencies have been transitioning away from manual safeties for years.

basicblur
December 19, 2008, 07:02 PM
If they would get rid of the DA-SA crunch-tick with a proper thumb safety

By "crunch-tick" I'm assuming you mean the de-cocker action (and not the DA/SA trigger)? If so, I think SIG's have one of the better de-cockers around. I much prefer the crunch-tick when decocking as opposed to a de-cocker that just drops the hammer all the way when de-cocking. With that arrangement, I'm never 100% sure the sucker ain't going to go off whenever de-cocking! The SIG's two stage de-cocker gives one a bit of assurance that when you de-cock, it ain't gonna go off.

Safeties are a double-edged sword. Most folks only argue one way (whatever their opinion happens to be), but there are good/bad reasons to have one. There's really no way to tell if you're going to find yourself in a situation where it would be good or bad. I also might think differently 'bout safeties depending on one's circumstances (private citizen vs. LEO etc).

Now he didn't bring it up, but if money's not a problem he might consider an HK USPC? Got one in Variant 1, which is about the safest way for a civvie to carry (1 in the pipe, hammer down, safety on). 'Course, if he didn't want to carry that way, he has numerous options in Variant 1, as well as other Variants. The HK USPC also has one of the nicest thumb safeties I've seen (along with the 1911). Big enough to swipe, works in the "proper" direction, and has a nice, distinctive click to it.
Downside to the HK USPC is price and proprietary rail instead of picatinny.

Jim Watson
December 19, 2008, 09:00 PM
By "crunch-tick" I'm assuming you mean the de-cocker action (and not the DA/SA trigger)?

No, I DO use "crunch-tick" to mean the DA - SA transition, as did Jeff Cooper. But he is dead now and there are a lot of people coming up without his influence. I DO prefer the Sig-Sauer decocking system to the Walther slide lever as used by S&W, Beretta, and others.

Of course law enforcement management is going to promote the double action automatic, in order to simplify training. They like guns to operate by what another old fashioned expert, Jan Stevenson, termed "the convulsive response" based on the doctrine of those civilized Old Worlders, the Germans.

The H&K system has a flaw. If you get the AC-DC Variant 1 and decide to use it in Condition 1 (there goes Jeff Cooper again, meaning cocked and locked) you will likely find that if you disengage the safety function too vigorously, you will have inadvertently decocked your weapon. This will leave you with a surprise DA shot for the most important shot, the first one. How do I know this? Not only did I read another fossil, Ray Ordorica, I OWNED one and saw for myself.

23Glock
December 23, 2008, 11:49 PM
My $0.02 - ANYTHING but the P250.
It was one of the worst mistakes of my life and I'm very glad to be rid of that thing. I had it for about 6 months and put 2000 rounds through it...a total nightmare. Ergonomically it was fantastic, fit like a glove...that was all the gun had going for it. That's all I'll say unless my seething hatred for that gun boils over into a rant...

I would recommend a Glock 19, but I know it's hard to pick up a Glock once you've held the P250. You wouldn't regret the decision though... I'll also second the XD. The XDM is BIG, beefy...

Serial Crusher
December 24, 2008, 02:21 AM
Here's something to think about, the FNP has the trigger group AND the slide rails pinned into the frame. For some reason none of the FN literature mentions the slide rails, but definitely something to think about. I'm sure it would be an investment to wear the slide rails out, but they are replaceable. You can swap the trigger group for a DAO or SA group with a safety versus the standard DASA group with the decocker.

I'd like to see some precise measurements on the FNP-9 and FNP-40. I'm wondering if they would interchange. From the weight and length measurements they look to be the same, unlike the FNP-45 which is completely different.

rugerfreak
December 24, 2008, 02:34 AM
Ya---looked over a 250 the other day---that DAO just kills it---I'd stay away from it.

G19
P95
SP2022
M&P

Never warmed up to the XD---the FNP seemed "too" checkered--if that makes sence?? Just dug into my hand too much.

Serial Crusher
December 24, 2008, 02:40 AM
It can be a little rough in the cold, but it isn't too bad if you're using the straight backstrap as opposed to the contoured one. The additional length of the grip seems to make it worse. The XDM has a very similar grip texture.

R12GS
December 24, 2008, 04:38 AM
HK p30 - if you don't mind the DA/SA trigger system, this gun IMHO and first hand experience is bar none the finest made 9mm semi auto available. I'm extremely jealous that a family member has one but I as of this posting, do not.

ConstantineJ9
December 24, 2008, 04:55 AM
Ruger p89

atblis
December 24, 2008, 06:56 AM
I've shot a 250. While I generally can't stand SIGs, I found the 250 enjoyable to shoot. The trigger was very easy to shoot. I actually like the trigger much better than the usual SIG DA/SA setup.

gtmtnbiker98
December 24, 2008, 09:21 AM
Well, I own a P250 and simply enjoy it for what it is, a simple polymer framed pistol. I knew what it was when I purchased it and use it for a range/fun gun. I collect Sigs and really have found no problem with the pistol and the ergonomics are well thought out.

As others have stated, consider the M&P line when picking your next purchase.

Salty1
December 24, 2008, 10:25 PM
I own a 250 and have over 3000 rounds through it. It did go back to Sig for FTE issues early on, which were resolved, their customer service department was great. Even though it is a DAO trigger system it is smooth as silk and better than a lot of DA/SA's that I have shot and once used to it you know exactly when it will go bang with every pull. The 250 is also very accurate, even with my old eyes. I have never shot the FNP so I will hold back any "I heard, a friend of mine" comments since I personally have no experience with them. I did not buy the 250 because of the caliber conversion kits, although that could be a plus if I ever get interested in actually purchasing one, maybe when the release the 357 sig I may consider. I suggest finding a place where you can rent them, put 100 rounds through each if you can and decide what you like best.

Shipwreck
December 25, 2008, 08:19 AM
Make sure to check out www.fnforum.net if ya want to know more about the FNP.

The DA pull on the FNP is actually pretty nice.

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