I've got the suppressor itch


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Roadwild17
December 19, 2008, 07:52 PM
Ive come up with the cash and I think im ready to pull the triger on my first NFA item so a few questions:

Does anyone know of a site that deals strictly with suppressor issues?

Can I buy a supressor online and have it shipped to a local dealer?

Is there a listing of Class III dealers anywhere, or do you know any in east Texas?

I know you can make your own, when exactly does it become more than the host (peace of pipe) Ex. do you get a peace of pipe, serial number it, do the paper work, then put in baffles?

IO realy would rather buy though.

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TexasRifleman
December 19, 2008, 07:59 PM
I know you can make your own, when exactly does it become more than the host (peace of pipe) Ex. do you get a peace of pipe, serial number it, do the paper work, then put in baffles?

I looked into it a while back, seemed more trouble than it was worth unless you own a machine shop. I thought about doing it for the educational value as much of anything, but changed my mind.

But yes you can build your own on a Form 1, $200 tax.

As for when it becomes the NFA item who knows. Personally I wouldn't even start til I had the Form 1 back.

Dealers in your location I dunno about.

Gunnerpalace
December 19, 2008, 08:19 PM
Tons of good info here.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=20

husbandofaromanian
December 20, 2008, 12:22 AM
As you research silencers, be aware that there is a crap throwing contest going on between Gemtech & AAC that AAC started.

Also be aware that the only thing close to silent is 22lr.

I personally own a Tac-65 22lr silencer (www.tacticalinc.com) and a Gemtech M4-02.

Its worth the money, wait & hoop jumping!

Mr_Rogers
December 20, 2008, 01:53 AM
Silencertalk.com has some useful stuff but it seems to be virtually run by the AAC company so be careful of the opinions.

Most suppressor manufacturers have technical pages on their websites. The most controversial issue seems to be the best way to judge suppression. Some manufacturers favor instrument measured noise levels, other advocate "perceived noise" which is how loud the shot sounds as opposed to how loud it is measured on an instrument.

I have an old generation Gemtech. Works great as a suppressor but you still get the "Ker-chuck" of the slide on a semi-auto cycling. However, the feeling of freedom from not needing ear defenders is incredible.

expvideo
December 20, 2008, 04:12 AM
Silencertalk.com is not as well behaved as THR, so be careful at work or around the kids. There's nothing too bad, but there are some less than work appropriate avatars.

Anyway, I'm secretly getting into suppressors as well. I know exactly what I want, but the stock is limited so I'm keeping it as close of a secret as I can. Anyway, as soon as I get my tax return, I'll be busting my NFA cherry!

MGshaggy
December 20, 2008, 12:05 PM
Roadwild17-

I think the first thing you need to do is think about what guns you want to use it on. Most handgun 'cans' these days have a built-in Niesen device to boost the recoil enough to ensure reliable cycling which can be compromised by the additional weight of the can at the end of the barrel. If you're not already an expert engineer with experience in suppressor design, you're not going to be able to make a properly functioning Niensen device that won't damage the firearm but still give you reliable cycling. With rifles or handguns with a fixed barrel you won't need one since the extra weight of the can at the end of the barrel won't impact cycling.

I own a few cans - an AAC Evolution-9 (9mm), SRT Arms Cheyenne XL (.22), AWC M10 (9mm), and I love shooting with them, especially the AAC and SRT (used on a G17 and a P22).

Roadwild17
December 20, 2008, 12:20 PM
Ive always hurd AAC all the way. What about some brands like YHM and AWC ?

taliv
December 20, 2008, 12:30 PM
YHM is a pleasure to work with, but they produce basic "value" products. good stuff. you won't have a problem with it. but it won't be as strong, quiet, sexy, lightweight, cool looking as the expensive cans. It' a great "first suppresor"

I like my AWC can. but it's nothing special

ultradoc
December 20, 2008, 01:03 PM
I heard that along with a supressor you should use sub sonic ammo

Mike Sr.
December 20, 2008, 01:12 PM
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=7&page=1

==========================

**STUDY** THIS FORUM

Roadwild17
December 20, 2008, 02:22 PM
So what happens if I cant get a local LEO to sigh off on it. Im pretty new in town and I think that is going to be my greatest problem.

I got some info for a few dealers around my local that have some in stock.

So do I go there with the $$$ and put down, have my paperwork sent off, get it back to have local sight off, then send it back with the tax stamp money, then get it back, then go pick up my can???

hankdatank1362
December 20, 2008, 02:28 PM
You can circumvent the CLEO (i.e. Sheriff) signoff if you go the trust route, but I'm not incredibly familiar with that.

From what I hear, it's easier than it sounds to form a trust.

MGshaggy
December 20, 2008, 05:23 PM
So what happens if I cant get a local LEO to sigh off on it. Im pretty new in town and I think that is going to be my greatest problem.

There's several local officials that can do the signoff for you - the sheriff, chief of police, district attorney. If you can't get one of those to sign off there are other individuals that can, but you may have to call the NFA Branch at BATFE to get a complete list. That said, if those three fail, chances are slim that someone else will.

My advice is to do what tens of thousands of NFA owners have done for years; call up the sheriff's office and request a meeting. Dress nice (leave the "bong hits for Jesus" T-shirt at home), mind your manners, and above all else be polite and pleasant, even if they deny your request. You may get a signoff, you may not, but no sense in aggrevating the local CLEO. In my county the sheriff (who is a woman BTW) is always friendy and helpful and gives me a signoff. The deputies are usually happy to see me and ask what kind of cool guns I'm getting this time. Its a very republican county and theres a lot of gun owners. when she initially took office, the sheriff didn't want to give signoffs but the deputies just had to explain to her how the county worked and that she'd be a one-termer if she ever crossed the gun owners in the county. Now she's all too happy to see us and give a signoff.:evil:

So do I go there with the $$$ and put down, have my paperwork sent off, get it back to have local sight off, then send it back with the tax stamp money, then get it back, then go pick up my can???

The normal proceedure is to make sure you can get a signoff first, and if not, see that you can do a trust or corporation. Once you know how your going to take ownership, go to the dealer & pay for the can. He should give you a form 4 (in duplicate) to complete and get signed by the sheriff/CLEO. Once thats done, you either take the form back to the dealer to send off or you send it off to BATFE yourself (work that part out with the dealer - some like to check over your paperwork before its sent out to make sure you didn't do anything wrong). In a 2-3 months your dealer will get one of the two form 4's back approved and stamped. At that point you can go to the dealer and pick up your new toy. Make a copy of the form 4 for keeping with the can and put the original in a safe deposit box or secure area.

expvideo
December 22, 2008, 09:50 AM
I heard that along with a supressor you should use sub sonic ammo
That depends. A suppressor does quiet down the round quite a bit, but it's not anything like the movies. It's still going to be kinda loud, but it will be quieter with subsonic, since it doesn't break the sound barrier.

Some integral suppressors will bleed off the gas and slow down the round so that you can use regular ammunition, and it will only hit subsonic speeds. In fact, some integral .22 suppressors can't use subsonics because they won't reliably cycle the firearm.

Ranb
December 22, 2008, 10:49 AM
I can say that it is definitely worth it to make your own silencer. It is easy to do and I learned how to operate a lathe while making my first aluminum silencer for a 300 whisper. I think the two best sites that deal with silencers are http://www.subguns.com and http://www.silencertests.com . You can buy a silencer online. Here is a list of links to manufacturers; http://www.silencertalk.com/links.htm . You can find a dealer here; http://www.subguns.com/c2c3/c2c3.htm . Contacting the silencer manufacturer can also result in a dealer recommendation. It is very common for a silencer to be bought online then sent to a local dealer.

As soon as you start to cut or shape a piece of material that is intended to be a silencer part, you are making a silencer. You must have the approved ATF form 1 in your hands before you start making it to be legal. I just use a hand held vibrating engraver to put the serial number on my silencers now. But when I made my first can, I bought the empty tube to an engraver and they engraved it for me.

Silencers work just as well on supersonic ammo as subsonic. Since all they do is reduce muzzle blast noise, anything shooting supersonic ammo or using a recoil, blowback or gas operated action is going to be louder. Even a mediocre silencer is going to reduce noise by 20 decibels, or lower it by 99%. If a rifle is very loud to begin with, such as 160 decibels, then it will still be loud when suppressed, just much less so.

Making my own silencers gives me the same satisfaction as loading ammo; times ten.

Ranb

rfurtkamp
December 22, 2008, 11:06 AM
My advice is to do what tens of thousands of NFA owners have done for years; call up the sheriff's office and request a meeting. Dress nice (leave the "bong hits for Jesus" T-shirt at home), mind your manners, and above all else be polite and pleasant, even if they deny your request. You may get a signoff, you may not, but no sense in aggrevating the local CLEO.


Come with the carrot and the stick IMO. If legal in your jurisdiction (and check before you meet with them), know you can do the trust and/or corp route - and if the CLEO is resistant in any form to a signoff inform them that you will be purchasing the item regardless.

And ask if they'd like to be kept in the loop on what you're buying - which their signature would do. A trust or corp purchase never touches their desk- they have zero idea of what toys are in their jurisdiction.

This, of course, assumes your local sheriff is not a notorious local drunkard who crashes official vehicles and somehow remains in office thanks to the good old boy network - and someone you wouldn't beg permission of anything from.

Mike OTDP
December 22, 2008, 11:20 AM
I'm not an advocate of making your own can...not these days. The designs are too sophisticated for anyone other than a good machinist to manufacture. If you want to make a can purely for the pleasure of making it, feel free (do it legally, of course). But for shooting? Buy it.

The subguns.com boards are THE place to go for information.

My advice is to buy the best suppressor that you can afford. The $200 transfer tax and the dealer's fee ($75-100 where I live) are sunk costs. You pay them whether you are buying a piece of steel tubing with a few washers in it, or the latest titanium suppressor with 3-D asymmetric baffles. Which means that the total cost of a can that cost $100 to make is $400...while a can that cost $400 to make costs $700. But the latter is (roughly) four times better. Lighter, quieter, more compact.

Unless you are strongly inclined otherwise, I would recommend a .22 suppressor. Light, efficient, lots of competition. And you can afford to shoot it. There's a debate going on over the merits of sealed vs. dismountable designs. A sealed can has the baffles welded in. These are made to tight tolerances, and are usually more compact and lighter. But they are very hard to clean...and there are reports of sealed cans clogging up with significant lead deposits after 10,000 rounds or so. The current fad is for cans that can be disassembled. Which increases weight and size. Personally, I'm happy with a sealed suppressor - but I don't pump thousands of rounds through it.

Ranb
December 22, 2008, 11:37 AM
Here are a few examples of simple designs that are easy to make on a lathe. They have not been shot by a sound meter but work well. It takes me about an hour to make one baffle on a lathe.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u320/ranb40/suppressors/510W.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u320/ranb40/suppressors/baffles2a.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u320/ranb40/suppressors/photos_510w_2.jpg

Ranb

Dogwatch Dale
December 22, 2008, 01:00 PM
Lots of good resources here, thanks!

alaskanativeson
December 22, 2008, 01:38 PM
I just purchased a Badlander suppressed .22 Ruger pistol and a Nexus .45 suppressor from AWC Systems (http://www.awcsystech.com/AWCPistolSuppressors.html) and they were great about helping with all the paperwork.

erict
January 13, 2009, 02:17 PM
I just purchased a Gemtec outback II for my Mark II and future 10/22. Shooting with a suppressor is loads od fun and much more pleasureable because you don't have to wear hearing protection.

I can use regular high velocity .22lr in the Mark II with a 4.5"barrel but we have to use subsonic with a .22 rifle because the standard ammo still reaches velocity from the longer barrel.

you can still shoot it without hearing protection though since the "crack" of the round seems to be 50 or so yards downrange when it is heard from your ear. I have 2 friends with suppressors as well, we shot around 300 rounds last week in the yard about 10 feet from my back door and my wife said she could not hear a single sound while sitting in the house.

It is definetely money well spent and I figured I'd go with the .22 model because that is what I plink with the most.

unspellable
January 13, 2009, 08:03 PM
Any one have any idea how much a suppressor will quit down a revolver? I know there will be noise from the cylinder gap, but how much? The idea would be to put it on a 44 Mag not to "hide" the noise but just to save the ears.

What would happen if you ran 357 bullet through a can made for a 44? (.429)

Ranb
January 13, 2009, 09:12 PM
I think but am not sure that the gas escaping from the gap would be loud enough to damage your hearing if ear protection was not used. I think it is a waste of time unless you use a revolver with minimal gap or one that seals the gap like the 1895 Nagant.

Lots of people commonly use silencers that are made for larger calibers. They are just a bit louder (at least 3 db, 2x louder) than they otherwise would be.

Ranb

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