AR15 Purchase Question


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HammerG26
December 20, 2008, 12:29 PM
I live in Georgia, but made my annual pilgrimage to Michigan. I found several AR15s at a local Gander Mountain (we REALLY need one north of ATL), but I digress. Question is this: if I want to buy an AR15, the guy there said I had to have it shipped to a FFL (since I was not a Michigan resident nor was I from a contiguous state)... can anyone verify this?
Second question: if my mother-in-law buys it for me (she is a resident of Michigan), can I buy it from her (or can she gift it to me)?

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Canuck-IL
December 20, 2008, 12:35 PM
Interstate transfer beyond a contiguous state, whether from the dealer or a relative, will have to go through a licensed FFL. As you moted, I don't think they'll sell it directly to you as an out of (contiguous) state resident.

To minimize shipping costs, you could buy it in MI (MIL buys it), disassemble, find a willing FFL from the home area and ship only the lower; ie. take the upper, barrel and stock with you - only the lower is serialized and must go to an FFL.

I have the name of one in Dawsonville that I used, if that's not too far north of ATL.
/Bryan

HammerG26
December 20, 2008, 12:52 PM
Does this also apply to my wanting to gift her a S&W 642?

Canuck-IL
December 20, 2008, 01:22 PM
It's even more so with a pistol, if that's possible. No 'contiguous state' exceptions for handguns!
/B

MGshaggy
December 20, 2008, 01:58 PM
the guy there said I had to have it shipped to a FFL (since I was not a Michigan resident nor was I from a contiguous state)... can anyone verify this?

Interstate transfer beyond a contiguous state, whether from the dealer or a relative, will have to go through a licensed FFL.

I can verify that its not the law. It may be their company policy, but nothing in federal law restricts FFLs to selling long guns only to residents of their state or a contiguous state. An FFL can sell a long gun to a resident of any state so long as the sale complies with the law of both states.

Canuck-IL
December 20, 2008, 02:17 PM
"(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]"

Source: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b3

Note - the purchaser needs a licensed shop in their own State.
The linked page has further definitions of one's state of residence and other details.
/B

rdhood
December 20, 2008, 03:14 PM
I have the name of one in Dawsonville that I used, if that's not too far north of ATL.

What he said hammer. I live about 8 miles from a pawn shop in Dawsonville that does $10 transfers. It is the lowest I have seen anywhere.

MGshaggy
December 20, 2008, 04:54 PM
Note - the purchaser needs a licensed shop in their own State.
The linked page has further definitions of one's state of residence and other details.

Canuk - I fail to see the point of your post; what were you trying to prove? Note the use of the word "may" in the BATFE explanation (and note, the section you quote is NOT the actual statute) - one may acquire a firearm through a seller in another state (FFL or non-licensee) by sending the firearm to an FFL in the purchaser's home state to be transfered there. We know this already - there never has been much debate on that issue. Was there a point to posting the obvious?

I will say, however, that the US Code section you cited was correct, although its obvious you didn't read it, as it proves what I said in #5.

18 USC 922(b)(3):

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

Canuck-IL
December 20, 2008, 06:15 PM
...shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States...

Skipping your condescending tone, the OP would like to get the gun home. As an example, one cannot bring a longarm into IL from a non-contiguous state w/o use of an FFL and cannot bring in a handgun at all. I believe GA is the same - most states, if not all, are.

The attitude in your posts doesn't do much credit to the notion of 'High Road.'

...and the spelling is 'Canuck.'
/B

MGshaggy
December 20, 2008, 06:33 PM
Skipping your condescending tone, the OP would like to get the gun home. As an example, one cannot bring a longarm into IL from a non-contiguous state w/o use of an FFL and cannot bring in a handgun at all. I believe GA is the same - most states, if not all, are.

He's trying to get the gun from a shop in Michigan and he's a resident of Georgia. What I quoted is federal law. State law may apply and prohibit such sales, and that situation is addressed in the federal statutes as I pointed out and posted the appropriate section of the US Code. As it is, most states do not have such prohibitions against buying a firearm in another state, despite your assertion to the contrary. Georgia or Michigan may have such a law, but I doubt it. Please feel free, however, to cite to a section of state law from either jurisdiction proving me wrong.

The attitude in your posts doesn't do much credit to the notion of 'High Road.'

Sorry if I bruised your delicate ego, but what you said was wrong and I want the OP to know correct federal rules. As I said in post #5 , under federal law it is legal for him to purchase a long gun from a licensee in another state if the sale complies with the law of both states. Many FFL's won't however, as a matter of store policy, since they rarely know the gun laws of a state other than their own. There is nothing in federal law about contiguous states. There may be applicable state laws that allow sales only to contiguous states, but to my knowledge niether GA nor MI have such laws. But again, please feel free to prove me wrong by citing to one of those state's laws.

...and the spelling is 'Canuck.'

Wow, you got me there on a typo. Red letter day, huh?

Bubba613
December 20, 2008, 08:01 PM
MGSHaggy is correct. There is nothing in Federal law prohibiting a resident from one state from getting a long gun in another state, as long as the dealer in the selling state abides by all the laws in the buyer's home state.
Thus if I sell a long gun to a NJ resident, I must make sure he has his FOID card or whatever nonsense they have to go through. That's why I won't sell long guns to people from states like that.
If state law forbids it, as MGshaggy rightly says, then it can't be done.
Sorry, Canuk, grow up.

Canuck-IL
December 20, 2008, 10:39 PM
MI - http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf

"Firearms Laws of Michigan - Statutes

3.112 Rifles and Shotguns: purchases by nonresidents.

Sec 2. Residents of a contiguous state may purchase rifles and shotguns in this state if they conform to the federal gun control act of 1968 and the regulations issued thereunder as administered by the secretary of the treasury and the laws of the state wherein the purchaser resides.
History: 1969, Act 207, Imd. Eff. Aug. 6, 1969."

Likely the same in GA but their code is less organized and harder to search. Hardly a 'red letter' when I waste this much time verifying what I said in the first place and what Gander Mtn essentially told the OP on the sale - no can do. They're in business to sell so I doubt they declined his purchase capriciously. Split the hair as to whether it's a federal or state dictate ... the contiguous state restriction is pretty common.

Bubba, you have to abide by the laws of BOTH states. Perhaps you'll become better informed when you grow up.

Have a nice evening.
/B

Bubba613
December 20, 2008, 10:45 PM
Bubba, you have to abide by the laws of BOTH states. Perhaps you'll become better informed when you grow up.
My post referenced Federal law only. Please learn the difference between a Federal law and a state law. It would make your posts more meaningful.
Thanks Canuk.

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