45-70 black powder loads


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fireman 9731
December 20, 2008, 10:08 PM
I have reloaded 45-70 for a while now with smokeless powder and have had good results.
There is a local gun range that a several ranges dedicated to black powder only. So I was interested in loading up some BP loads. I have no BP expeience at all.

I have Goex FF powder and remington 300 grain jacketed HP bullets. I have searched for some loads online and haven't found much info. I also read some load data with powder wads. what are they and do I really need them? compressed loads, powder charge weights ect.?

pretty much, what do I need to do?

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1858rem
December 21, 2008, 01:00 AM
i dont really see much as far as jacketed bullets and bp, hodgdon showes 65g(volume) 777 and a 300g lead rnfp at 1512 fps some of the wads help cut fouling and some provide additional lube(wonder wads).... maybe check out there site and see what you can find

1858rem
December 21, 2008, 01:02 AM
i dont really see much as far as jacketed bullets and bp, hodgdon showes 65g(volume) 777 and a 300g lead rnfp at 1512 fps some of the wads help cut fouling and some provide additional lube(wonder wads).... maybe check out there site and see what you can find



oh yah, be sure to read upon cleanin that thing, you really dont want a pitted barrel due to in experience with bp

Pokyman
December 21, 2008, 01:51 AM
I burn up approx. 25 pounds of black powder a year shooting black powder cartridge rifles.
Just a few suggestions if you are going to use black powder.
1. Smokeless powder solvents don't work as well for cleaning as one would hope. Simple soap and water work well enough. My favorite BP cleaning solvent is equal parts of Murphy's Oil Soap, rubbing alchohol, peroxide. All can be purchased at the grocery store for ~ $6.00. Cleans powder fouling and bullet lube (if you use cast bullets).
2. There are several books available for reloading black powder era cartridges. All are good, I would recommend Mike Venturino's book. He writes for Rifle magazine.
3. Make sure the case if full of powder. i like to use approx. 1/8 compression on the powder.
4. Just remember, smokeless powder is just a passing fad.

MMCSRET
December 21, 2008, 10:57 AM
And then there are "duplex" loads. I've never used them for jacketed bullets and I do not shoot hard cast but the duplex load sure makes cleanup easier. Check out books by Paul Mathews for black powder cartridge loading and shooting.

Jim Watson
December 21, 2008, 11:22 AM
Jacketed bullets and black powder are not a common combination, you are pretty much on your own. I saw a short piece in a gunzine about loading the .32 Winchester Special with black, as it is commonly said was intended, but it did not go into the details you need about wads, lubes, and endurance between cleanings.

Black powder should be loaded with no airspace. You can compress the dickens out of it, especially Goex, and it will just shoot better. With that light a bullet, a magnum primer might help.

Lots of good basic information at:
http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/Resources/Introduction%20to%20BPCR%20Loading.pdf
but it is entirely devoted to cast bullets.

You might need a lube wad or grease cookie under that jacketed bullet. Or you might not, it could scrape out enough fouling to keep going.

rcmodel
December 21, 2008, 12:51 PM
To me, black powder = lead bullets.

It generates all it's power almost instantly, gives the bullet a powerful thump, and then is pretty much done.

Jacketed bullets have much higher bore friction then cast & lubed lead bullets.

I don't suppose you could ever stick one in a bore with a full charge of black, but velocity might vary considerably, affecting accuracy.

The other thing is, the bullet lube grease on a cast bullet plays a major role in keeping the BP fouling soft and prevents a build-up.

Just me thinking out loud.

rcmodel

fireman 9731
December 22, 2008, 01:10 AM
ok, I just dove right in and figured that 70 grains of Goex FF would be a good place to start, loaded up 5 rounds and gave them a try....

Things went well I guess, I like the different sound and plenty of smoke... it was the first time I have shot black powder...

I am also interested in the idea of casting bullets, I have a lead source, and think it could be lots of fun. about how much equipment/money do I need to get started?

RugerBob
December 22, 2008, 05:56 AM
Lyman has a good casting bullet book out there. It is a lot of fun and I find it very rewarding.
Just for starters you'll need melting pot,(many differnt options).Ladle , molds, sizer and dies, flux of some sort and bullet lube. I personaly like to cast the 405 grain hollow base for my 45-70. Good luck, Bob

Seafarer12
December 22, 2008, 07:52 AM
To get out cheap all you need is a pot, mold, and a sizer. You can go with Lee maybe spend about 6o bucks depending on what pot you get. The molds are 20 and the sizer is 15. The sizer comes with lube. Scrounging lead can become addicting though.

Jefferson Herb
December 23, 2008, 02:08 PM
I find sizing is un-necessary,especially in older guns with a slightly larger bore dia,let them bump-up.you can experiment with lube as much as different bullet wt etc.

Afy
December 23, 2008, 02:10 PM
From what I have seen around here...

Fill the case with powder. Seat bullet... and shoot.

At least that is what it looks like to me.

Uncle Chan
December 24, 2008, 01:04 AM
I mark on the case where the bullet will seat and fill up the case to just below that. I then add a grease cookie and a card wad. I use the bullet to compress to about 1/8 inch. Sometimes I use card, grease, then card. Other times I use card then grease. Results don't seem to differ much from one combination or the other.

I have learned, though, not to use 777 and Oregon Trail bullets. In my Buffalo Classic and Marlin 1895 CB, the combination leads real bad.

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