parallaxing question


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coldtrail
December 21, 2008, 12:03 AM
I have been trying to do my research on scopes and have narrowed it down to a u.s.a. made scope in the mid price range. What I haven't figured out is some have AO's and some don't. At least not that I can tell from the pictures or comments. So my question is how do variable power scopes (3.5-10 or so) compensate for parallax if they don't have an AO on the front? I know some of the more expensive ones have a knob along with the elevation and windage but what about the rest? :scrutiny:

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taliv
December 21, 2008, 12:15 AM
typically, the ones that aren't "side focus" or AO have parallax fixed at a given range. or rather, are "parallax free" at a fixed range. e.g. most rimfire scopes are fixed at 50m. you usually have to read the really fine print to figure out where that is

lipadj46
December 21, 2008, 12:17 AM
If they don't have a focus on the eye piece or side then they cannot be adjusted for parallax. Honestly I cannot think of a good quality variable scope that does not (besides shotgun and rimfire scopes). Don't forget that Zeiss Conquest scopes are made in the US (if that fits your definition of mid price range). The only others I guess would be Burris and Leupold (US Optics not exactly Mid priced). It is a noble thing to buy US, but in the world of mid priced high quality optics the Japanese pretty much own the market with some other European brands as well. Unless you go with the Zeiss Conquest you will be limiting yourself.

rangerruck
December 21, 2008, 01:11 AM
most centerfire scopes are prllax free at 100 or even, 150 yds. That is why I like fixed power scopes, or scopes with a prllax adjust on it.
Rimfire scopes, such as the Tasco Golden Antler, can be adjusted down to 7 ft, since a lot of airgun competition takes place at 10 ft. , 7 meters, or 10 meters.

Ratshooter
December 21, 2008, 04:54 AM
Bob Milek and John Barsness have pointed out many times that you will have no paralax issues IF you stay exactly behind the scope lense.

Paralax comes into play when you do not place your eye centered behind the occular eyepiece.

The adjustable eyepiece will let you make a minor amount of paralax adjustment but it is mainly to make focusing the scope easier.

If you are shooting small targets at super long range a PL adjustable scope is good to have.

lipadj46
December 21, 2008, 09:41 AM
Yes but what good centerfire rifle scope these days does not have a focus on it? If you do find a mid price range scope with no focus (side or rear) it is probably over priced. That said I've never fiddled with mine while out hunting

JWarren
December 21, 2008, 10:07 AM
Unless you go with the Zeiss Conquest you will be limiting yourself.


What does the OP want to do with the optic? I ask this because there are significant circumstances where GETTING a Ziess Conquest will be limiting yourself.

The Ziess Conquest has a poor range of internal adjustment. That limits how far you can "dial out" if you are sighted in and zeroed at 100 yards.

To illustrate:

My Mark 4 needs a 20 MOA canted base if I want to dial out to 1,000 yards. However, WITH the 20 MOA canted base, I can still sight in and zero at 100 yards, but have the internal movement available to dial to 1,000.

With the Ziess Conquest, you also need a 20 MOA canted base if you were to try a shot at that distance. However, in reaching 1,000, you cannot sight in and zero at 100 yards due to the lack of internal adjustment.

I mention the above as an illustration of the adjustment range. Now, 1,000 yard shots don't mean much to the vast majority of us. But I repeatedly see people her asking about optics with the idea that they'd LIKE to be able to do that if they were in the position.

The Ziess Conquest fails at that.


However, the Ziess Conquest is an excellent, American-made optic that has amazing clarity, resolution, and consistency in the sight picture. It's a great hunting optic. I've got a couple firearms that I have in mind to put Ziess Conquests on one day. I actually want to put on on my Ruger 10/22 as well!


Just something to throw into the discussion. Probably won't matter, but knowledge is what its all about.



-- John

Walkalong
December 21, 2008, 11:49 AM
Bob Milek and John Barsness have pointed out many times that you will have no paralax issues IF you stay exactly behind the scope lense.and is pretty small anyway. For a hunting rifle at the range most folks shoot, parrallax is a non issue with scopes set parallax free at 100 or 150 yards.

What are you going to use the scope for?

hksw
December 21, 2008, 03:14 PM
Paralax comes into play when you do not place your eye centered behind the occular eyepiece.

More accurately, it comes into play whenever you are not lined up with the scope in the same place as the last shot. You can be off center of the axis of the scope, but as long as you look through at the same place every shot, parallax should not be an issue.

ilike223s
December 21, 2008, 10:54 PM
I guess would be Burris and Leupold (US Optics not exactly Mid priced). It is a noble thing to buy US, but in the world of mid priced high quality optics the Japanese pretty much own the market with some other European brands as well. Unless you go with the Zeiss Conquest you will be limiting yourself.
__________________
What scopes are made In Japan ? I think they have the best glass..they did years ago. do they still have great glass..
most are made in china,or are they put together in china,but made in Japan,

lipadj46
December 21, 2008, 11:23 PM
My Mark 4 needs

I do not consider the mk4's a mid priced scope either. $ for $ the Zeiss is a better scope and has better glass. Compare apple to apples here. There are better European scopes closer in price to the Mk4s that wipe the floor with the Leupolds IMO.

What scopes are made In Japan ?
Nikon, Bushnell, Nightforce to name a few scopes made in Japan. Was that a serious question? You are telling me Japan has no scope manufacturers anymore?

JWarren
December 22, 2008, 01:42 AM
lipadj46 wrote:

Quote:
My Mark 4 needs

I do not consider the mk4's a mid priced scope either. $ for $ the Zeiss is a better scope and has better glass. Compare apple to apples here. There are better European scopes closer in price to the Mk4s that wipe the floor with the Leupolds IMO.


lipadj46,

No offense, but you utterly missed the point of my post.

I was not suggesting that:

a: ) a Mark 4 was mid-priced.
b: ) an apples to apples comparison should be made


What I WAS doing was illustrating internal range of adjustment issues. I used my Mark 4 as a reference point that even what I would consider the entry-point to high-end optics may not have as much internal adjustment to work with. I used it as an example of one that DID at least have enough adjustment for a 100 yard zero and movement to dial out to 1,000 with a 20MOA base.

The Ziess Conquest can't do that.

It doesn't matter for 99% of the people out there, but there are some that are thinking that they would have that capability. Hopefully, what I wrote helps those people from making a mistake.

I'm not "picking on" the Conquest. I frankly think that the Conquests that I've seen perhaps have brighter glass than I have in the Mark 4. As a hunting optic, the Conquest is probably the best optic for the price. However, when you start ordering M1 knobs for it and trying to make something out of it that is simply isn't, you can run into a situation where what you buy can't do what you envision it to do.


I'm also not tauting Leupold over other European optics. But before you suggest what could wipe the floor with anything else, you have to define the criteria.

A lot of those European optics that you are likely thinking about beat the hell out of Leupold in terms of brightness, clarity, etc. But they do not have the capibilities of the Leupold in terms of adjustment range, etc.-- IF that is what you NEED. Those that DO are NOT in the same price tier as Leupold's.

For instance...

A Kahles has much brighter glass then a Mark 4. But it isn't set up for tactical purposes. It is a hunting optic.

At the same time, if adjustment range IS needed more than brightness, there ARE mid-prices optics that "wipe the floor" with the Ziess Conquest and even some of the High-end European optics. A Supersniper optic has between 120-130 MOA of adjustment, but isn't the brightest optic you will find.

But if a person needs apples, only an apple will work. An bushell of oranges won't make up for the lack of the apple.


I'd like to be clear on this: A Leupold isn't the end-all of optics, and you will never hear me say that. I needed a tactical optic when I got my Mark 4. I see it as the entry-point of the high-end tactical optics. That's it. I like Leupold's customer service, but there are other companies that offer good customer service as well.


You haven't been on THR long enough to answer these same questions repeatedly. I'd hate to know the number of times that this same question and then the subsequent questions regarding optics comes up around here. Sometimes, I answer not just the question that is asked but also the questions that I know are BEING ASKED by those reading these threads, and perhaps those helps people asking similar questions.



-- John

coldtrail
December 22, 2008, 04:07 AM
Thanks for all the input guys. And yes, I was leaning towards a Leupold or maybe a Weaver. Some others are Burris or Nikon. Shooting around here in hunting mode is usually under 100 yds. but I like to target shoot and would like to at least get out beyond 200yds on a range. Then of course there is going east of the mountains where distance is no issue and rock chucks abound. I understand what parallax is and how to compensate by keeping behind the glass the same for each shot. I just wondered about how it was compensated for and you confirmed what I later found on Leupold's site that their hunting scopes are set at 150yds. Also as an aside, I have noticed a lot of counterfeit Leupolds on Ebay so looks like I'll be buying from a shop I can trust.

lipadj46
December 22, 2008, 01:18 PM
No offense, but you utterly missed the point of my post

I am not offended this is the internet after all.

A Leupold isn't the end-all of optics, and you will never hear me say that. I needed a tactical optic when I got my Mark 4. I see it as the entry-point of the high-end tactical optics.

I agree with this also though at the price point I would spend a few extra hundred and get a scope that has top glass and twistability.

My point was that the OP was asking about mid priced optics and the Mk4 is not mid range. Leupold will put twisty knobs on any scope so why not upgrade a VX-III with mil-dot reticle that is on sale with M1 or M3 knobs and you will have a poor man's Mk4. Same glass and same knobs. Also Zeiss will put twisty knobs on a scope also for $50 to make it all targety/tactically.

If I were to buy a mk4 it would be this one as it is not just a VX-III with target knobs:

http://www.swfa.com/pc-2895-297-leupold-10x40-mark-4-lrt-30mm-riflescope.aspx

JWarren
December 22, 2008, 01:28 PM
lipadj,

Cool... no worries then.

Yeah, I was using mine as a reference point only.


-- John

ilike223s
December 22, 2008, 11:04 PM
Yes I'm serious about if scopes are still made in Japan,
Scopes that I own,
Nikon prostaff made in the Philippiens
simmons prohunter 2x7 made in the philippines
simmons master series 3x9 made in china
buris 2 and 3 power in the ler made in usa
bushnell trophy 3x9 mad in korea
simmons white tail 4 power made in china,

like I said before..I know I had some tascos that were made In japan,
I was just asking if any company makes scopes In japan,?

hksw
December 22, 2008, 11:31 PM
The higher end Nikons (Monarch) and Pentaxes, Tasco Super Sniper, as well as Sightron (at least before the Big Sky series) are made in Japan.

lipadj46
December 22, 2008, 11:37 PM
Well I think you just may have a penchant for cheap scopes :)

Yes those lower end lines are not made in Japan and I would not expect them to be for the price. China and the like own that market now. There are still many medium to high end scopes made in Japan though. The Bushnell 4200 and 6500 series are made in Japan and Nikon Monarchs are made in Japan and many many of the better lines are made in Japan (nightforce is another higher end scope that comes to mind). I can't say the every screw is made in Japan but you cannot say that about any brand these days.

If you need a larger list for convincing I would have to do some leg work. But to say no scopes are made in Japan anymore is just silly.

lipadj46
December 23, 2008, 01:18 AM
No need to get angry my favorite scopes that I own are the Bushnell 4200 and Nikon Team Primos both 3-9x40, $250 and $200 respectively. Both are made in Japan and are the best bang for your buck out there today. I guess I misunderstood you as you definitely sounded like you were saying that no scopes are made in Japan anymore and that would be misleading to anyone reading this thread.

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