Durability Question?


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schmeky
December 21, 2008, 11:24 AM
If brand "A's" model "X" has a rated life expentancy of 15,000 rounds of NATO spec ammo, how much longer would it last if you feed the same pistol light to medium pressure loads?

25% more? Double? Triple? More?

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jocko
December 21, 2008, 11:43 AM
pure speculation on any round count, When they say 15,000 that again is pure speculation.

99.995% never reach half of a guns round expectancy. I sold guns for 40 years and can't remember ever having a gun come back in WORN OUT. Parts broken,yes but replaceable, never WORN OUT.

What ever gun you have just shoot it like you stole it and forget about the end round count, you willprobably never life long enough to get that high anyhow.

Marcus L.
December 21, 2008, 12:24 PM
Just to put forth an example. The FBI rates their Glock .40S&W pistols to have an "average" service life of 50k rounds. Average, means that they take into account a large sample of pistols and based on their service records they calculate the mean. So, some Glocks went 70-80k rounds with no problems, some only lasted 20-30k rounds before they went kaput. The DHS rates their Sig P229 .40S&Ws to also have an "average" life span of 50k rounds. Keep in mind though, large law enforcement agencies like these shoot full power duty ammunition out of their pistols pretty much 90% of the time.....so a lot of abuse. The FBI uses 180gr loads which are less abusive, and DHS typically uses 155gr loads which recoil a lot more and are thus more abusive.

15k rounds of NATO is really nothing to brag about. Most US based LE and military units expect their adopted pistols to last them to at least 30k rounds of full power duty ammo before parts start breaking provided that regular maintenance is performed and springs are replaced at specific round counts.

I guess the short answer is, you can't accurately predict a individual pistol lifespan......the best way is to calculate an average based on a large sample of pistols(100-1000) to get an idea of how long your pistol should last. There are a number of organizations such as FLETC, the FBI, DHS, ICE, DOD,....etc that do this. Usually, they are pretty savvy agencies and this is reflected in their choice of equipment. However, using standard pressure loads will definately extend the life of your pistol. When it comes to the 9mm, the best performing loads are still the modernized standard pressure 147gr JHP load which is MUCH less abusive in comparison to NATO loads. DOI mostly issues standard pressure 147gr for those that carry 9mm and I know they have a lot of Sigs that are still running well in excess of 80k rounds.

MICHAEL T
December 21, 2008, 01:49 PM
Just buy a Kel Tec if you wear it out they will give you a new one :D

Blue Brick
December 21, 2008, 01:58 PM
Or buy from here:

"At Davidson's, your satisfaction is our commitment. In fact, our commitment is so strong, that we put together the only GuaranteeDsm Lifetime Replacement Warranty available in the firearms industry."

http://www.galleryofguns.com/

Gun Slinger
December 21, 2008, 02:08 PM
As long as you purchase a quality pistol (Glock, HK, etc.) you've little to be concerned about.

Of course, if you can afford enough ammo to wear out any of these pistols, then you can most likely afford to replace the pistol as well.

I remember reading somewhere (can't remember exactly where so don't ask :)) that the "average" gun owner shoots no more than 50,000 rounds through all of their firearms in a lifetime of shooting. Unless you are "well above average" in your consumption of ammuntion (competitive professional matches, etc.) I wouldn't worry.

jocko
December 21, 2008, 02:18 PM
Michael T.

As the kt's are rated at about 6000 rounds (direct from kt) and most won't go half that amount , indeed kt will give you a new one and another new one and another new one and another new one.

Blue Brick
December 21, 2008, 05:32 PM
Less than 5,000 rounds is the average for a private party gun owner. Not 50,000.

jocko
December 21, 2008, 06:04 PM
I tend to believe the amount figure of Blue Brick, 50,000 seems entirely to to many rounds..

Gun Slinger
December 21, 2008, 08:45 PM
5,000 or 50,000...the point is that the vast majority of us are simply unlikely to "wear out" our handguns simply by "shooting them to death"...

schmeky
December 21, 2008, 09:24 PM
I'm just curious about more than just the "wear out" durability. I'm averaging about 500 rounds per month in my CZ-97B, and about 400 (per month) in my CZ-75/40; I'm getting close to 4,000 total on the 97. Let me state clearly, I'm not the least bit concerned about "wearing out" any of my pistols.

I have read CZ's break slide stops and they should be replaced every 1,500 rounds. I want to see when mine breaks, if it ever does.

Since my target loads are mild, I "assume" the longevity would be increased. If I continue my current rate of rounds per month, I'll have about 7,000 rounds through this .45 by mid-year 2009.

50,000 rounds is a lot of shooting; I would guess maybe 5% or less of the shooting population passes this many rounds through the tube of any single given pistol.

Blue Brick
December 21, 2008, 10:58 PM
Yes 45,000 rounds is a major difference to any pistol. If you are going to quote something please make sure that information is correct and that you post the initial source.

Gun Slinger
December 21, 2008, 11:13 PM
Yes 45,000 rounds is a major difference to any pistol. If you are going to quote something please make sure that information is correct and that you post the initial source.


You should read (or re-read more carefully) my post above.

I have copied it below for your convenience.

...I remember reading somewhere (can't remember exactly where so don't ask ) that the "average" gun owner shoots no more than 50,000 rounds through all of their firearms in a lifetime of shooting...

I am not required to do any more than what I did and indicated that I couldn't remember where I read the information. I fail to see any mention of supporting documentation or source for your claim that you allege disproves mine so feel free to hop off my back any time, 'K? :scrutiny:

jocko
December 22, 2008, 07:57 AM
as replacement parts are available, you can't wear one out, things will break in time, maybe even wear beyond use even but hell, I had parts break left and right on my 3 kts, and received new parts to fix the breakage. I would not call those guns worn out.

Now if u buy a $2000 gun and in 50 rounds or so it breaks, and the company has went out of business, I would say you have a worn out gun. I think the best bet is to buy from a company who you feel will not BE WORN OUT, before your gun does..

Peter M. Eick
December 22, 2008, 11:00 AM
I looked it up for me. I have fired now 46,243 rounds out of my 38 special diamondback in now 26 years of ownership. That is only a couple thousand rounds a year. Not that many when you think about it. Consider about 2000 rnds per year, or 40 boxes of 50 or about 200 rnds a month give or take.

So do you shoot 200 rnds a month out of just one gun? I used to and a lot more. Looking back on my records I run at between 1000 and 2000 rnds a month on average for the last decade.

The only reason I don't wear more guns out (by the way, the Diamondback has been back to Colt two times now for repairs and once locally for additional work), is I have enough that the wear is spread around to more guns. Right now I have 19 guns with less then 1000 rnds fired in them and 5 that are unfired. Those 5 will stay that way so I have to shoot most of next year with just those 14 to get them up over 1000 rnds fired.


So consider your durability question carefully. If you are young and have few guns and shoot a lot, you can rack up 15,000 rnds fired pretty darn quickly.

hags
December 22, 2008, 11:48 AM
Just to put forth an example. The FBI rates their Glock .40S&W pistols to have an "average" service life of 50k rounds. Average, means that they take into account a large sample of pistols and based on their service records they calculate the mean. So, some Glocks went 70-80k rounds with no problems, some only lasted 20-30k rounds before they went kaput. The DHS rates their Sig P229 .40S&Ws to also have an "average" life span of 50k rounds. Keep in mind though, large law enforcement agencies like these shoot full power duty ammunition out of their pistols pretty much 90% of the time.....so a lot of abuse. The FBI uses 180gr loads which are less abusive, and DHS typically uses 155gr loads which recoil a lot more and are thus more abusive.

I find it hard to believe the FBI or any LE agency puts that many rounds through their firearms. Most LE I know only handle their guns on a regular basis and only shoot them to qualify.
That might amount to a couple of hundred to a few hundred rounds per year.

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