True increase in gun sales


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John828
December 21, 2008, 12:00 PM
You know how NICS are up something like 49% since the election?

When I purchase a gun, I still fill out Form 4473, but no call is made because I have my cc permit. So, now I wonder what the true increase in sales is since I am assuming many cc holders go through the same process.

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Old Fuff
December 21, 2008, 12:30 PM
You are correct. For the reason you cited NICS numbers are way under the true number, and this in a depressed economy. Also it says nothing about ammunition or magazine sales that are also going through the roof.

But that's O.K. with me. The Democrats may learn the hard way in 2010...

Walkalong
December 21, 2008, 01:27 PM
The Democrats may learn the hard way in 2010...We can only hope. There are too many who will trade their freedom for so called "security" :banghead:

22-rimfire
December 21, 2008, 01:48 PM
I'm hoping that the American people don't have to learn the hard way.

Gun sales are definitely up. All you have to do is go to your favorite gunshop and look at what is available. Lots of shotguns and "deer rifles", but even the supply of "deer rifles" have dwindled at most shops that I visit. It's the season for those rifles.

Average Joe
December 21, 2008, 03:39 PM
Panic, just like the Y2K fiasco.

rfwobbly
December 21, 2008, 04:06 PM
No call is made in Georgia when the buyer has a CCW.

The downturn has kept me from buying as many guns as I really want. Do you think I could get a bailout? I could single-handedly turn the economy around.

guntotinguy
December 21, 2008, 04:13 PM
Here in Clark County,we still (now) have to pay a new background check even with a CCW...for a while it wasnt that way,but theres no waiting period if your clean.Funny a few weeks ago,so many guns were being purchased here,it shut down the system for a day or so.

I would also be interested in what the 'actual' percentage of increase would be.

jcwit
December 21, 2008, 04:31 PM
Wonder why some states require a phone in NICS check with a permit holder and others don't.
Thought the NICS check was a federal thing.

zoom6zoom
December 21, 2008, 04:50 PM
As stated below, it's because in some states the state acts as the point of contact for the Feds, and in other states the dealer has to call the Feds directly. If the state is the POC, they can decide that anyone they have already issued a CHP to is worthy of getting a pass.

NICS Background Checks

The FFLs have the following three methods of performing background checks depending upon the state in which the FFL is conducting business:

1. In states where the state government has agreed to serve as the POC (point of contact) for the system, the FFLs contact the NICS through the state POC for all firearm transfers. The state POC conducts the NICS check and determines whether or not the transfer would violate state or federal law.

2. In states where the state government has declined to serve as a POC, the FFLs initiate a NICS background check by contacting the NICS Section for all firearm transfers. The FBI conducts the NICS check and determines whether or not the transfer would violate state or federal law.

3. Finally, in states where the state government has agreed to serve as a POC for handgun purchases but not for long gun purchases, the FFLs contact the NICS through the designated state POC for handgun transfers and the NICS Section for long gun transfers.

Each state decides whether the FFLs in its state call a state POC or the FBI to initiate firearm
background checks.

Cajun
December 21, 2008, 04:57 PM
Panic, just like the Y2K fiasco

I think so too!!

jcwit
December 21, 2008, 05:16 PM
Thanks understood now

Rshooter
December 21, 2008, 06:58 PM
If it is a panic like Y2K it is going really deep. It has the supply chain down to the blanks used to CNC AR receivers and some barrels backordered months out. I was trying to buy a lower for my nephew going into the Corps next month and I have hit a wall.:banghead: In a few weeks everything was gone. A manufacturer told me they sold over 50,000 units and have 100,000 on backorder. That's just one outfit. Now the opportunists have jumped in and prices have soared 100% or more. We can only hope that Obama is really not going to outlaw AR's or they will be outlawed before they can be made again.

Grassman
December 21, 2008, 07:26 PM
I like the panic........gives me an excuse to tell the wife when I buy something new.:neener:

lamazza
December 21, 2008, 07:51 PM
Its amazing that after obama has said that he wants your guns, rahm emanuel wants your guns, joe biden wants your guns and people still don't believe that they want your guns.
Average joe, I don't mean to be demeaning but, what is it going to take for you to beleive that THEY WANT YOUR GUNS!

david_the_greek
December 21, 2008, 07:56 PM
"We can only hope. There are too many who will trade their freedom for so called "security" "

I'm willing to trade my.... money.... for a sense of security. Nothing feels more secure than a stack of magazines filled with copper coated candies

John828
December 21, 2008, 09:05 PM
So I guess there is really no way to know what the true increase in sales is. Using the 49% number that NICS gave out and supposing that there could be another 10% that would have been called in except the purchaser held a cc permit, then perhaps sales could be up by almost two-thirds or so. But then again, not all calls to NICS turn into sales for various reasons.

I am not losing sleep or anything, i was just wondering how much of an increase has occured on a percentage basis.

OcelotZ3
December 21, 2008, 09:32 PM
There are too many who will trade their freedom for so called "security"

Which is exactly how we got the so-called "Patriot Act".

Regular Joe
December 22, 2008, 05:37 AM
What is most odd to me is that we are in the midst of one of the biggest arms/ammo mobilizations in human history, and there is so little mention about the many things that could easily send this country into a spin where we definitely NEED to be armed.
The real increase is less important than the message it sends to any who would seriously consider disarming America. In spite of the anti's efforts, there are far more "modern minutemen" in America today than ANY military force in history would care to confront.

seale
December 22, 2008, 01:54 PM
Most states require a call to verify the permit and those calls are logged. Thus the sales numbers are effectively accurate. It's PRIVATE transfers that are going crazy and not fully tracked (yet).

athensguy
December 22, 2008, 02:29 PM
I've only had one call in but I've purchased two firearms this year. The BG check was done for my GFL. After that, I don't have to wait for a check any more while the license is valid.

louie19
December 22, 2008, 02:43 PM
I wonder if there's any stats on the increase of # of members / posts / threads on forums like THR, AR15, etc. That's another way to gauge it.

But a real easy way is to try to find anything AR-15 related. LOL Like someone else said, just try to find magazines, not even lowers or complete rifles. Before the election (and even a few weeks after), a store like 44mag.com had a lot of supply. Now take a look: http://www.44mag.com/products.asp?dept=1326

Also take a look at the number of news reports of gun sales: http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/11/obama.gun.sales/ That's a local gun shop to me and the week of the election, the wall was full. But look at the wall in the video. Anyways, news organizations aren't known to be gun-friendly so anytime they mention guns in a good way, you know there is something going on.

Did I mention that gun shows are really crowded nowadays?

daorhgih
December 22, 2008, 02:47 PM
My fav. shop has closed its restroom to shoppers "due to BATFE Regulation," begun taking Carry-permit AND drivers'-license, AND calling in to Fed line. I say, "Better safe than sorry," because there are some unscrupulous potential badguys shopping for guns too. He also has cracked down on "private sales" inside his shop. Last month my shop had .308 Win. for $11.90 / 20 rds in November. Now they are $17.95 and he is usually out or near out of stock. But I was able to get a case of 1,000 7.62x51mm fo $399 because I helped him unload the truck. He said that the next case would be $500. And I don't even own the M1A yet that I intend to shoot with this stuff!! Walmart is asking $19.95 for 20 rds Win.308 in the green box, full bullet wt. or reduced recoil. Cheaper...Dirt hasn't changed for the last 3 catalogs.

Frog48
December 22, 2008, 03:03 PM
I think its a "perfect storm" type of situation... There are 3 factors, in my opinion, that make this record-setting fall/winter:

1) Every year, gun sales usually pick up in the fall/winter because of deer and duck seasons.

2) The Heller decision has brought gun ownership/self-defense discussion to an unprecendented level in public consciousness.

3) The election of a rabidly anti-gun president.

seale
December 22, 2008, 04:20 PM
^Excellent assessment

daorhgih
December 22, 2008, 04:54 PM
Yup, and then watch the prices rise.

KBintheSLC
December 22, 2008, 05:30 PM
Which is exactly how we got the so-called "Patriot Act".
I love the irony of naming something so unconstitutional and unpatriotic "The Patriot Act".

Back on topic... I bet that sales are outlandishly higher than the NICS data shows. What about all of the private party sales? I know that local classifieds have been moving guns like crazy here in UT.

Granted, those are not new gun sales, but many of the buyers are in fact first time gun owners.

Honestly, I am seriously considering starting to vote for anti-gunners. I think that guys like Obama and Biden really help promote our cause. They get more people into guns, they boost the gun industry revenues, and more people find reason to be active in defending gun rights... AKA, they get otherwise complacent gun owners off of their a$$es and ready to rally for the cause.

GO OBAMA!

huntsman
December 22, 2008, 07:52 PM
True increase in gun sales

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You know how NICS are up something like 49% since the election?

When I purchase a gun, I still fill out Form 4473, but no call is made because I have my cc permit. So, now I wonder what the true increase in sales is since I am assuming many cc holders go through the same process.


Don't forget about the private sales, not everybody shops at gunshops. With the bad economy there's a lot of liquidating of guns by broke citizens..

John828
December 23, 2008, 12:10 AM
KBintheSLC wote:

Back on topic... I bet that sales are outlandishly higher than the NICS data shows. What about all of the private party sales? I know that local classifieds have been moving guns like crazy here in UT.

Granted, those are not new gun sales, but many of the buyers are in fact first time gun owners.

Honestly, I am seriously considering starting to vote for anti-gunners. I think that guys like Obama and Biden really help promote our cause. They get more people into guns, they boost the gun industry revenues, and more people find reason to be active...

Yes! I agree up until I actually pull the lever. But the assessment is right on target.


huntsman wrote:
Don't forget about the private sales, not everybody shops at gunshops. With the bad economy there's a lot of liquidating of guns by broke citizens..

Thank you for the reminder, I did forget ftf sales. I know, in the long run it does not matter, but I still ache to know the true increase in sales. I was at Gander Mtn, Academy and two local shops today, and all were as busy as I've ever seen them. Granted, it was the week of Christmas, but still.

BTW, I think I know which rifle I am buying myself.

daorhgih
December 23, 2008, 07:41 AM
Not exactly a surprise, nor "new" news, but a press release of interest :: "A movement is forging ahead in at least eighteen states to be able to
identify your ammunition and make your existing ammo supplies
contraband -
http://www.jpfo.org/pdf02/ammo-accountability-legislation-sample.pdf "
A word to the wise is sufficient.:uhoh:
And there's more :: (evidently there is a flag that goes up when a custmer is I.D.d as a ""potential criminal"" )

Ammunition Accountability
Saving lives one bullet at a time



About Us

Ammunition Accountability is a newly forming group of ammunition coding technology supporters. Our group includes gun crime victims, industry representatives, law enforcement, public officials, public policy experts, and more. We are working together to pass legislation to make ammunition coding technology a reality.

Ammunition coding technology works by laser etching the back of each bullet with an alpha-numeric serial number. Then when a potential criminal purchases a box of 9mm cartridges, the box of ammunition and the bulletsí coding numbers would be connected to the purchaser in a statewide database. When a bullet is found at a crime scene, the code on the bullet can be read with a simple magnifying glass and then be run through a statewide database to determine who purchased the ammunition and where, providing a valuable investigative lead. //emphasis mine \\

There are many ways that you can help us solve gun crime around the nation. For more information about our organization or information about the technology contact us: ACT(at)ammunitionaccountability.com.

Contact Us at
ACT(at)ammunitionaccountability.com

John828
December 23, 2008, 07:47 AM
In the morning paper, I read an AP article talking about how this is the worst shopping season since they started keeping year on year records in 1969. The article cited example after example of retailers slashing prices and how a customer would be a fool for not asking for a discount.

Yesterday, I went to Gander Mtn, Academy, and two local gun shops, and 4473's were floating around everywhere. Sure would have been nice if the journalist would have been honest and mentioned the only bright spot in retail sales.

chuckusaret
December 23, 2008, 09:25 AM
Gun sales are setting records here here in Florida. Gander Mountain has always had higher than average gun prices but their sales are still high. Gun show prices are up slightly on hand guns but the assult type prices the same as last months show and were cheaper on Sunday afternoon. Preparing for the ban on assult type weapons? I haven't noticed a major increase in ammo prices , but I can only speak of 9MM(+/-$10), 40 cal (FMJ +/-$13, JHP $20+)and 12 gauge shotgun#6-#8 $6, 00 buck $10+) Looks to me like your favorite shops are ripping you off. Bought a case of Remington PMC FMJ (500 rds) at the gun show for $130> I am sure it will get worse after the 20the of Jan. Hey, a new thing for Obama's brothers to steal, ammo. It will soon be worth more than the weapon.

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