[Drizzt]

NAACP Outraged At Store Owner's Sign
Employees Say Owner Takes Aim At Various Groups

Posted: 8:27 p.m. EST January 14, 2003
Updated: 9:27 a.m. EST January 15, 2003

A store sign is attracting attention from people who say they find it offensive, Local 4 reported.

The sign is located outside the Gun Barn on M-59 in Highland Township.

The northern Oakland County NAACP is asking the store's owner to remove a message that they believe is racist.

Customers and employees told Local 4 the owner periodically rotates the messages -- taking aim at various ethnic groups, feminists and people who are overweight.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/det/news/stories/news-190930420030114-190139.html


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[geekWithA.45]

But every crate has some bad apples in it, and PC speach is different from hate speach.

[Blackhawk]

I'm all for the 2A.

And the 1A.

Did they take him up on the ebonics offer?

What's the problem?

[PATH]

I think it is tasteless but we do have a first amendment. The other issue is the nitwits who actually do promote ebonics in the schools and put Black children at a disadvantage in the job market!

[Cal4D4]

If there wasn't a pretty fair hue and cry about how ridiculous the concept of "ebonics" is, we would be diverting education time and money to teach it right now. Wasn't it Maxine Waters who was all for this in Kali? Anyhow, pretty tasteless.

[El Tejon]

Bad taste/being a smart alec is not a crime (thank Goodness), but does show some really bad management. How come gun dealers never want to make money?

[Slotback]

From a business point of view, that is simply stupid.

[Neal Bloom]

yes it is pretty stupid. Wonder how the owner treats customers?

[rock jock]

From a business point of view, that is simply stupid.
Maybe. OTOH, it might increase his business from certain segments.

[madmike]

Neal Bloom
yes it is pretty stupid. Wonder how the owner treats customers?


I'll never find out.

Promoting groups is good. Denigrating groups is bad. He could offer a GOA discount or something.

[DeltaElite]

The feminist one made me giggle.

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but then again, he has the right to be a dim bulb, if he so chooses.

[spacemanspiff]

considering 'ebonics' recieves 75% of its notoriety from non-ghetto people speaking it (in a joking context), how can poking fun at it be considered racist? theoretically, it could be argued that the Gun Barn's owner is poking fun at white kids who go around trying to act all tough by speaking with a ghetto accent.

my favorite feminist jab, from "family guy":
"yeah yeah, i know you're a feminist and i think thats adorable, but this is grownup time now, and I'm the man." :evil:

[G-Raptor]

I like it!! :D

Some people are WAY to sensitive.

[westex]

Drizzt
I thought your thread title referred to the movie Narc. Just got back from seeing it. One tough movie. Excellent acting and pretty good plot too.

As far as the signs are concerned I thought they were funny. Some folks just take life way too serious I guess.

[Ledbetter]

to insult women, blacks and any other minority group.

That doesn't mean it doesn't show you to be an ignorant, vulgar clod.

:)

[Justin]

What Ledbetter said.

Isn't there a saying that goes along the lines of 'It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than it is to open it and prove you are a fool.'

The guy's a nimrod who's not helping the RKBA movement one bit.

[2nd Amendment]

Insulting ebonics insults blacks? Funny, every successful black I know is insulted by ebonics.

Pretty much the same story regarding women and feminists.

Outside of leftist urban cesspools the sign is likely to GET him business, not drive it away.

[JohnBT]

I admire his, shall we say, boldness.

John

[swingset]

I think it's drop dead hilarious.

That said, I wouldn't put a bumper sticker on my car with those sayings.

It's not a bad thing to say, just a bad one to put on your business sign.

[Hkmp5sd]

How much money did he save on TV commercials and newspaper ads? How many "offended" folks are going in there to see what it's all about? How many "I agree" folks are going in there to see what it's all about?

Don't judge a book by it's cover.

[Ed Brunner]

The only course some people seem to understand???
I probably would ax him.

[jungleman]

I like it. This is America. Lets learn to speak English.
Why are the instructions for things we buy printed in English and Spanish.:banghead:

[DadOfThree]

The first one is not particularly funny to me, the second was mildly amusing but I am surprised that the owner is willing to tick off potential customers. He does seem to be getting a lot of advertisement for his buck on this one.
Promoting groups is good. Denigrating groups is bad.
Does that also apply to denigrating groups like MMM and HCI? If I remember correctly, I think I have seen them denigrated once or maybe twice on TFL. :neener:
The owner has the right to say what he wants on his board but I also thinks it perpetuates the "stupid redneck" image of gunowners.

[Carlos Cabeza]

What would reactions be if the sign read: "Bubba an' Cletus come on in ! "The Gun Barn" sounds kinda redneck to me............

[XLMiguel]

Maybe funny, but dumb business.

Most humor is at someone's expense, but but it's pretty ignorant to make fun of someone you don't know, especially if you don't know if they can take a joke.

[Blackcloud6]

Gee, a politically incorrect gun enthusiast? Go figure.

I live in the Metro Detroit area and never heard of The Gun Bar. Another gun store to check out. The NAACP just pushed the envelope of The Gun Barn's advertising dollar!

[BigG]

Think I would go in an ax him if I were in the area. ;)

[spacemanspiff]

fo shizzy! any foo done knowed it be wiggety-whack like a miggety-mack to be all up in dat homeboys face wid dat drama, aaaight? troo dat!

[scottgun]

These guys are good, they don't even need to wait until you're in the store before they start with the insults.

[G-Raptor]

I seriously doubt that anybody who would be offended by those signs are on their "preferred customer" list. I also doubt it hurts his business any.

Haven't seen any long lines of gangbangers and feminists at my local gunshop. How about you?

[MarineTech]

It would really be interesting to find out that the owner of the store is a Female Black Women's Liberation supporter. Wouldn't give people much to complain about then.

[Mark Benningfield]

Hello All.

Yeah, I've got to say it: I think it's funny. Somehow, I don't think the owner minds if the people who don't think so come into his shop or not.

[pax]

Haven't seen any long lines of gangbangers and feminists at my local gunshop. How about you?
Well, duh. You think there might be a reason for that? Like maybe, when women walk into the gun shop they are ignored, treated like idiots, and have to put up with idjits who think common courtesy is "politically incorrect bull****."

I don't think alienating half the potential market is a brilliant way to do business or to restore the RKBA.

But what do I know, I'm just another idiot feminist woman.

pax

Don't be sexist. Broads hate that! -- Archie Bunker

[Shootin' Buddy]

Sure, let's provoke the enemy and increase their animosity toward us; maybe we can get mag capacity limited to five rounds.

I don't see how getting your inventory outlawed is good for business.

[Dennis Olson]

Reminds me of the scene in the movie "Falling Down" where the guy goes into the survival store owned by the neo-Nazi homophobe. That scene was funny as all hell. And some people actually do think like that.

And yes, it sends a "stereotypical" message about gun owners too. And not a good one...

[OF]

99% of the time the 'racist' moniker gets thrown out it makes me want to puke. It's become a catch-all accusation that shields the weak-minded from having to confront issues they find upsetting or are unable to debate.

'Ebonics' is a sick joke. Calling it a sick joke does not make one racist. :fire: The time to recoil from these kinds of accusations is OVER. Confront people who throw out accusations of 'racist' at every opportunity.

- Gabe

[OKC .45 ACP]

With the owner of the Gun Barn about his stands on Ebonics and feminism, his signs are crude and stupid. They only serve to inflame people, not persuade them to his point of view. He has a right to say what he wants, it's his store, but it was tacky and rudely done. It doesn't help the masses driving by reading those signs have a positive image about gun owners. It confirms the "redneck racist" image many have about gun owners. So that end is not a desired one. BTW, there's nothing wrong about being a redneck :D, but unfortunately we get lumped in the racist category which is untrue from my perspective.

IMHO, the real racists are people such as exist at the University of Michigan, who choose candidates solely on the basis of their skin color. But that's another discussion :D

[Gewehr98]

But they're gonna limit his customer base in Detroit.

Not that he's worried about it, evidently.

Wonder if the offended will resort to burning down the place in protest?

[firestar]

why doesn't he just post a sign that say: "We don't want any business from blacks or women"? What an idiot! He is also making people that don't like this type of attitude avoid his shop.

I wonder why there is such a stigma attached to gun dealers? Hmmmm?:rolleyes:

[Dave Williams]

"Wonder if the offended will resort to burning down the place in protest?"

Don't give them any ideas. This is Detroit we're talking about. Ever here of Devil's Night?

Dave

[Gewehr98]

As if they need an excuse. :(

[Troy Spiral]

damnit i told them reporters not to take pictures of my sign.

[car15bill]

that is pretty funny to me, i have been to both of their shops, they also have one northeast of flint, to put it VERY mildly, those guys do not care about being pc. not the smartest thing to do from a business standpoint, but i like having a shop near my hometown that at least has the balls to say what they want, instead of bass pro shops, who refer to a mini 14 as an "assault rifle."

[bratch]

A very blunt and to the point reply that I seem to be using regularly.

"@!#$ 'em if they can't take a joke"

Of course this is coming from a guy with a song titled "Beer, Bait and ammo" in the CD player right now.

[tc300mag1]

Well for 1 thing the gun barn is no where near detroit more like ponticrack opps mean pontiac and its not super close there either try highland..
About 70 miles or so from detroit

Been in the gun barn to the owner was a allright gun when i was there..

Pretty funny they only complaine about that sign when its on a gun shop ive seen both at gas stations and few other companys over the past 5 years its really pretty old the ebonixs crap is even older than that start with a funky spelling of hooked on phonics works for me.

[Spot77]

You know, some people actually pay a comedian to hear the same exact messages....

[BryanP]

Eh. On the one hand I think both signs are in poor taste and indicative of his being an idiot. I would not shop in his store.

On the other hand, it's his store. If he wants to put signs like that outside and doesn't mind the business he will lose or doesn't mind limiting his business to the kind of twits who think that is funny ... well it's his business.

If you're a local and you want feel the need, walk in and have him show you the most expensive rifle in the store, have him go through the process of getting it ready, fill fill out the 4473 but don't sign it. Write a big fat check, and then when he points out you didn't sign the 4473 take back the form, look at him and say "Fo shizzle mah bruthah, ah be late fo mah NOW meeting. Maybe sum uddah time." ;)

Or just go to another local gun store and buy something there, making sure to tell him that you went there instead of the other store because you didn't like his competition's signs. Word gets around.

[Hawkmoon]

The guy's a nimrod who's not helping the RKBA movement one bit.
Ummm ...

"Nimrod" simply means "hunter." Didst thou mayhap mean "dimwit"?

[Ringer]

I live about 20 minutes from the Gun Barn. They have a good selection of guns new and used and their service is OK, nothing stellar the couple times I have been in there. Their prices are less than inviting.

I will say I get a laugh most times I drive by from their signs. Not seen any quite this unPC. My favorites was around Desert Storm. It went something like "Sale - Iraqi rifles, excellent condition, never fired, dropped once".

Not thrilled about these particular messages. They won't be losing any business from me because they never got any before. Tend to agree, it doesn't do us much good.

[Sergeant Bob]

Did anyone notice this story is from Jan, 2003?

[jefnvk]

See my sig.

[feedthehogs]

Its not dumb business if your customer base doesn't have a problem with it.

I have pro gun and NRA posters in my office which has offended some people to which I show them the door.
The overwhelming majority never even mention them.

The signs are not insulting.
It doesn't say blacks and feminists are stupid. It only responds to what certain groups have been shoving in our faces for so long.

Reading comprehension is terrible around here.

[richyoung]

Stupid? Stupid all the way to the bank...try to put a dollar figure on all the free publicity he is getting out ofa $1000 lighted sign and some plastic letters. People ALL OVER THE WORLD now know and are talking about his business, and as th eRolling Stones said, "There's no such thing as BAD publicity." He's not saying anything worse than I;ve heard on "MAD TV" or "Chappelle's Show" or any number of standup routines performed by "people of color" - for all we know, the owner might be a dyslexic handicapped African-American lesbian orphan dope addict with an abusive spouse...that can't read!.

[EvilOmega]

That first sign is just intolerable, everybody knows the blacks aren’t smart enough to speak English correctly, and trying to make them talk like people will make them feel bad. :fire:

Ow...wait...he, he.. I forgot I’m not an racist idiot. I believe that supporting Ebonics is a degrading and demoralizing concept that encourages the subdigation of minorities by fostering an attitude that they are incapable of intelligent thought and responsible action, and justifying the need to form groups to help save them from themselves.

In my opinion the sign is funny, as far as keeping customers away, trust me, I know of what I speak when I say your life will be better off if you deal with as few Ebonics speaking customers as possible. I personally would be more likely to shop at a place that didn't cater to such groups. Providing that it was a good shop in and of its own. Personally I feel it only looks bad to gun owner’s beaus of the general level of stupidity in the media and general public. And changing to accommodate the ignorant is a sin in my book.

[c_yeager]

Well, duh. You think there might be a reason for that? Like maybe, when women walk into the gun shop they are ignored, treated like idiots, and have to put up with idjits who think common courtesy is "politically incorrect bull****."

I don't think alienating half the potential market is a brilliant way to do business or to restore the RKBA.

But what do I know, I'm just another idiot feminist woman.

pax

Don't be sexist. Broads hate that! -- Archie Bunker

You are implying that half the population of this country are FEMINISTS? They are certainly women but, those are NOT synonyms. At least not in my thesaurus.

Rolling over to the opposition hasnt won us any battles in Michigan so far. Why is that going to change all of a sudden?

[ninjaj448]

Someone made a big stink about the signs back in January. The messages changed often but have been going on for years. The stink went away after a couple of days when Detroit's mayor had some allegations made about his partying at tax payers expense.

I get a kick out of non-PC statements; even those that could be directed at me. I have enough of a life to get over it and move on.

[pax]

Wow, blast from the past.

C_Yeager, no.

I was implying only that women make up 50% of the population. And that the overwhelming majority of women dislike being insulted, condescended to, sneered at, or treated like idiots.

To some knuckle-draggers, a woman who objects to such obnoxious behavior is automatically a feminist -- and that's the way I was using the label. I don't self define as a feminist, and wouldn't say that even a large minority of women would define themselves as feminists. However, the folks who think plain common courtesy is "politically correct BS" also usually believe that only feminists object to such treatment. If those folks are defining the terms, I'm a feminist and so are most women I know.

pax

I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat. -- Rebecca West

[paul]

What is this moron's website...
I'd like to send him a piece of my income...
p

[Firethorn]

1. No publicity is bad publicity. It's probably safe to say that for every customer he drives away, he gets two more from his signs. Like what was said earlier, the people who are most offended by his signs are among the least likely to be buying his products.
2. People complaining about the sign? Fine, but expecting the government to do something about them shows a lack of understanding of the constitution. I liked the "It's a matter of his freedom of speech, and he knows it." :D
3. Some of us donate money to the NRA and other organizations. He uses a personal business sign. I bet most of his customers get a laugh from it.
4. Besides, this thread and the article are showing a couple of his more controversial signs. There's a saying "To take a great photograph you have to take hundreds of lousy ones". It should be noted that even a photographer who uses a 1900's style glass plate camera that takes several minutes to take a picture does this. He changes his saying every few weeks, according to the article, so there's bound to be some good ones and some stinkers.

[LiquidTension]

I'd check out his store for no other reason than the sign. While I'm in there I'll tell him how funny it is. Next time I'm in Detroit anyway. Oh wait, that'll be the day after never.

[trapshooter]

Ahhhh, what the heck. I may as well jump into this. Disregarding the relative intelligence, motivation, or racial or sexual preferences of the store-owner-in-question, here's my take.

"Ebonics" is a false, weak-minded attempt to legitimatize illiteracy by using the excuse of 'culture' and 'solidarity' with one's compatriots. Total horse-puckey, and anyone who can't see this is as big a dolt as those who proclaim the value of this thoughtless, idiotic speech. I am not the most erudite person I know. But that does not mean I can't aspire to something better. Ebonics is, at best, an acceptance of illiteracy, and at worst, an affirmation that people with a 'certain' background and of a certain 'color' cannot do better. Bulls--t!!!, in spades, to use a small, poor pun.

I, for one, am sick and tired of accepting crappy performance in the name of political correctness, and giving a pass to people who are more capable. To say that my point of view is prima facie evidence of a racist view is not only lame and weak, but a dis-service to those who have, and do, attempt to use this language, or any other, correctly.

As someone already noted, humor, any humor, is usually painful. As one who grew up in an environment where improper speech was the norm, not the exception, I feel free to say that 'Ebonics' is not only a blight on society, but a false indictment of an entire group of people. It is stupid, infantile, and beneath any thinking person to give it any approbation at all. And rightly deserves any ridicule some feel obligated to heap upon it.

If you don't expect better, you surely will never get better.

[jsalcedo]

I had a young fellow ask me directions in Ebonics once.

Admittedly I'm not that old and not that out of touch regarding slang but for the life of me I could not understand one word this kid said.

The funniest thing about the whole situation was that the kid was hispanic.

The sign is great. It is only insulting if you identify with the message.

I can laugh heartily at jokes and insults about my own ethnicity because
frankly some stereotypes are just plain funny.

Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle, Richard Pryor and many others can attest to that fact.

[trapshooter]

I can laugh heartily at jokes and insults about my own ethnicity because

Thank you, Mr. Salcedo. Only a thinking person can see the humor in his (or her) own (alleged) foibles. Without a sense of humor, all is lost.

From a stereotypical Irish drinker. :D
Or sailor. :evil: :D
Or dumb honky mofo. :scrutiny: :evil: :what: :D

[13A]

Ever talk to a company representative on a phone and have NO idea what language they are speaking?

The guy is just poking fun. Bad taste? Sure. So what?
Ever been asked if you want the salaba (salad bar)? I have.

If the NAACP takes offense, I'm SURE they will donate huge sums of $ to eradicating ebonics. No? I'm shocked!

[Neva]

Gee, a politically incorrect gun enthusiast? Go figure.

I live in the Metro Detroit area and never heard of The Gun Bar. Another gun store to check out. The NAACP just pushed the envelope of The Gun Barn's advertising dollar!


Gun Barn... looks kind of like a barn... out toward the Pontiac area... you'd miss it if it weren't for those goofy signs.... maybe that's why.... oh, never mind....

Anyway, as a strong woman, who gets just about zero sh*t from anyone who knows me for six seconds or more and who earns just as much as the guys she works with and can shoot and owns some very nice pistolas, I have to tell you, I am not going to get worked up about the guy not being up to a dry, rapier like wit....

If women go into a gun store with the right attitude, know what they're talking about and don't play into being a sweet little thing that will take any gun that's shoved across the counter at them, most of the time, things will go very well....

BTW, I teach high school in the inner city of Detroit and I'd give anything if some of my kids would learn how to speak enough English for me to believe they'll be able to make it through college and have the careers that so many of them dream of....

I've got a damned Senior that wants to be a doctor who, when I tell her to get back to work, answers "I is" and another who will answer "I'm am" and it's making me crazy.... I love my kids but I am saddened by their inability to communicate with the other 85% of the world around them....

[Michigander]

Talk about stretching your advertisement dollar! Wow! Is that story really from 2003?

[Sean85746]

Well...I was raised in MI. A nice little town outside of Flint called Genessee. The one thing I remember best about my younger years is that America was still a free country!

Preachers are thrown in jail in Canada for hate crimes if they teach FROM THE BIBLE that homosexuality is against the law of God.

You can be prosecuted for a hate crime if you call someone an idiot in some places in the states.

Ebonics is not a language...it is a dialect, very much like a patois.

I will stand with anyone protecting their rights, and our rights to spoof, and lampoon, and criticize is most important to our collective mental health. Thank goodness a few of us still believe in free speech and excercise our ability to shed light on the glaringly obviously stupid things we see daily!

Next time I am in Michigan, I am going to GUN BARN, and buy something pretty expensive, just to help keep him in business!

[Sean85746]

Gun Barn... looks kind of like a barn... out toward the Pontiac area... you'd miss it if it weren't for those goofy signs.... maybe that's why.... oh, never mind....

Anyway, as a strong woman, who gets just about zero sh*t from anyone who knows me for six seconds or more and who earns just as much as the guys she works with and can shoot and owns some very nice pistolas, I have to tell you, I am not going to get worked up about the guy not being up to a dry, rapier like wit....

If women go into a gun store with the right attitude, know what they're talking about and don't play into being a sweet little thing that will take any gun that's shoved across the counter at them, most of the time, things will go very well....

BTW, I teach high school in the inner city of Detroit and I'd give anything if some of my kids would learn how to speak enough English for me to believe they'll be able to make it through college and have the careers that so many of them dream of....

I've got a damned Senior that wants to be a doctor who, when I tell her to get back to work, answers "I is" and another who will answer "I'm am" and it's making me crazy.... I love my kids but I am saddened by their inability to communicate with the other 85% of the world around them....

Can I get an AMEN somebody?

[Sergeant Bob]

Next time I am in Michigan, I am going to GUN BARN, and buy something pretty expensive, just to help keep him in business!
From what I've heard, most everything he has would fit that bill. :D

[Declaration Day]

The sign may be in bad taste, but some people are WAY too sensitive. It is silly to make such a big deal of it.

[wolf]

when "bonix" was being supported by teachers, parents & students in the San Francisco area..as a relative teaching "tool" and accepting the "culture" of the poor minority population.

Did the school districts & politicians think "bonix" was a fix for minority youth to sidestep traditional language and education. The fast lane to success.

Then, when its admitted that the kids can't read, or do basic math and remain unemployed for years because they can't "speak english" or fill out a basic application for employment...it is the fault of the "racist society" ... of course.

When will Jesse Jackson be there to protest...

[BeLikeTrey]

Hkmp5sd hit it on the head first I think...
Everyone knows where that is now and I bet they at least think about the place if they get in the market for a gun.

I'm torn, either he is getting free advertisement or he is picking fights. either way, his business, his rights.