Help with choosing first gun (P-O6, Pro Carry II, SA Champion Operator)


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sharpshooterz98
December 21, 2008, 08:43 PM
To start, I promise I've researched and read countless threads, posts, and discussions on many different guns before I finally decided to make this thread.

I'll be purchasing my first handgun soon, and I'm looking for something that I can carry as well as shoot at the range (main consideration is carry though - will be Inside Waist Band). So, I've kinda narrowed it down to lightweight 40's and 45's. After picking up a bunch, I didn't care for the feel of many of the polymer guns so I'm keeping it metal framed.

I REALLY like the feel of the CZ P-01 (which I assume is the same as the P-06). Nice ergonomics, very reasonably priced. Only couple things I don't like is the fact that its double stacked (aka thicker than a 1911 style) and I'm not sure how I'd like the DA first pull of the trigger. I hate going DA on my dads Ruger SP101.

The Kimber Pro Carry II was very nice as well. Using the CZ as the benchmark, it felt 95% as good in my hands. I also like the larger (external) slide, thinner dimensions, and am a little partial to the .45 round. However, for the price I'm not sold on the finish, and in general what makes it worth the extra $. I've read about more problems with this than the CZ.

I haven't been able to pick up a Springfield Lightweight Champion, but it seems like a lot of what I'd like. Will try to find one though.


Right now I'm just stuck - can't make a decision. Does anyone have any input, whether its which is better to carry, which is a sweeter shooter, which might be better for something I haven't considered? Really looking for anything here. If it helps for reference I've shot a Ruger Sp101 in .357 and Colt Gold Cup in a 10mm. Thanks:)

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RoboDuck
December 21, 2008, 11:29 PM
Cz p-01

J.R.W.
December 21, 2008, 11:52 PM
Have you tried a Walther P99 on for size. I realize its not on your list. Mine is awesome to shoot and hides very well IWB in a Uncle Mike's cheapie.

sharpshooterz98
December 22, 2008, 01:53 AM
I haven't, but I definitely will check it out.

I just posted those three since they're my 'top three' but admittedly I haven't tried everything.

armoredman
December 22, 2008, 06:19 AM
P01 and P06 are the same, only differnce is caliber. The P01 can also be safely carried at a half cock notch, and the DA pull from there is quite good.

CZF
December 22, 2008, 11:24 AM
Nothing wrong with a 911 if you a determined to carry one and
like cocked n locked, and want to pay much more $$ than on a
P-06.

You can always buy the Kimber now and eventually get a CZ.

The prices on CZs will be going up at Least by 10% in Jan.

sharpshooterz98
December 22, 2008, 02:33 PM
Didn't know that about the P-01, thanks for the info.


The 1911s are really nice looking guns and have a lot going for them. However, this will be my first gun, not my last - so I won't feel bad if I don't buy the nicest one the first time around. Reliability/my life is greater than monetary considerations though (not that I have doubts with either of these guns).

Got off the phone with a couple gun shops - no one has the P-06, couple couldn't even find it from their distributors. Gonna call CZ in a minute, but does anyone know the scoop with them - limited run perhaps?

armoredman
December 22, 2008, 06:15 PM
Nope regular stocking item, just REAL popular, like a lot of guns right now....CZ-USA is doing a LOT of business.

Marcus L.
December 22, 2008, 06:30 PM
Test fire the P-01/P-06 with defensive ammo before you buy one. You may not like it all that much with full power ammunition. Recoil and trigger slap are common experiences with compact CZs using full power ammo like 9mm NATO or .40S&W 155gr. If you want a CZ, think about the full sized CZ 75b. It is a better balance of slide mass, recoil management, balance, and overall handling. Since you want a SA only, it has a manual safety so that you can carry cock and locked.

Your choices seem to favor larger calibers, so other pistols to consider that do not have "double action" in the sense of what you mean are the Glock 22 and the S&W M&P. H&K USP also has a manual safety and can be carried cock and locked.

......my personal preference is DA/SA with no safety though.....

j1979
December 22, 2008, 06:32 PM
here is a p-06 at Buds
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_82/products_id/53552

sharpshooterz98
December 22, 2008, 09:42 PM
Unfortunately this forum doesn't have the quote/multi quote feature...

Armoredman - They echoed your sentiments, but oddly enough two pretty big distributors in the Northeast don't list it in their catalog (only the P-01). Have managed to find a couple online - looking at a 50 dollar transfer fee though.


Marcus L - I really want to shoot before buying but no one has a CZ to rent and I don't know anyone that has one. I understand that shooting a full power round out of a compact, lightweight gun isn't going to be 'enjoyable', but recoil has never really been an issue (decent framed guy, no limp wrist). What exactly is meant by trigger slap though?


j1979 - Thanks for the link. Same price as my shop does the p-01, well 10 dollars cheaper actually. Unfortunately theres that damn 50 transfer free they charge.

Marcus L.
December 22, 2008, 10:05 PM
Trigger slap is when the trigger literally slaps(uncomfortably, sometimes painfully) against your trigger finger after a shot is fired. Most pistol designs do not slap your finger, they gently return once your release pressure. The CZ trigger design depends on the mass of the slide to reduce slide speed, but the compact models have reduced slide mass and when full power loads are used you can often experience the trigger slap. You can reduce the slap by increasing recoil spring weight, but then you increase the slide velocity on the return which is notorious for breaking slide stop pins. This is why I recommend that you get the full sized CZ 75b if that is your passion. After shooting 9mm NATO out of two P-01s and a Compact and getting trigger slap, I have pretty much written off compact CZs as serious defensive handguns for the avid shooter.

I have no doubt your stature, but I have carried firearms as part of my job for 10yrs now both in the USMC and now in Federal LE. I'm 6'1 and have been pumping iron for most of that time too. Felt recoil is indeed a deciding factor in a defensive pistol. Provided that you are using a proven military/police caliber like 9mm, .40S&W, or .45acp.....you should be maximizing your ability to fire rapidly, and fire accurately. Uncomfortable recoil inhibits this.

"In archery we have three goals; to shoot accurately, to shoot powerfully, to shoot rapidly."
- De Re Strategica of Syrianus Magister

This quote from a 6th century Byzantine general applies to any projectile weapon. This includes you pistol.

sharpshooterz98
December 22, 2008, 10:43 PM
Interesting. Thanks for all the info.

The reason I was leaning towards the P-06 was mainly due to weight (CCW) considerations. I want to shoot this gun regularly though - have to look more into this 'trigger slap' thing.

Marcus L.
December 22, 2008, 10:57 PM
CZ P-06 .40S&W:
-Weight: 27.2 ounces
-Overall length: 7.2"
-Overall height: 5.3"
-Overall width: 1.4"
-Magazine capacity: 10+1

S&W M&P .40S&W Compact:
-Weight: 21.9 ounces
-Overall length: 6.7"
-Overall height: 4.3"
-Overall width: 1.2"
-Magazine capacity: 10+1

The M&P is just one of many options out there that will meet your needs(only, it is a steel frame covered in polymer). You will be able to shoot it much more comfortably than the P-06 and it will last a LOT longer. LAPD has been using it has their backups for the last year and a half and have been very pleased with them. There are roughly two dozen large US agencies using the M&P and so far it has earned a better record with law enforcement than Glocks.

This is what I normally carry off duty and CCW:
Sig P239 9mm:
-Weight: 28.1 ounces
-Overall length: 6.6"
-Overall height: 5.1"
-Overall width: 1.2"
-Magazine capacity: 8+1

The P239 .40S&W model is also a good pistol with good recoil management and good accuracy. It weighs a tad more than the 9mm model and has a 7+1 capacity. If you are wearing a belt, weight isn't as important as pistol size when it comes to CCW.

sophijo
December 23, 2008, 07:14 PM
Check these out ....American made and good reviews.

orchidhunter
December 23, 2008, 07:55 PM
As this will be your first handgun, give the revolvers a good look. There is lot of things to worry about with the semi autos that you don't have to with the revolver. The reliability of a revolver, is hard to pass up. orchidhunter

sharpshooterz98
December 23, 2008, 11:14 PM
I just heard about the FNP, will look into it more.




I considered the revolvers for a while. I have nothing against them - at all, but I just kinda of 'want' an semi auto. Down the road I'm sure I'll have one.

chuckusaret
December 24, 2008, 10:38 AM
Springfield XD40 sub compact. (26oz)

armoredman
December 24, 2008, 11:07 AM
Recoil and trigger slap are common experiences with compact CZs using full power ammo like 9mm NATO or .40S&W 155gr.

Huh? Lessee...two P01s, 4 PCRs, one RAMI, and a Compact, never once any issues like that. Only trigger slap I ever got was from a WASR-10.


After shooting 9mm NATO out of two P-01s and a Compact and getting trigger slap, I have pretty much written off compact CZs as serious defensive handguns for the avid shooter.

I shoot quite a bit, reload and cast my own bullets for my CZs, think that qualifies. Have fired NATO ammo and most commercial, no issues.

...but I have carried firearms as part of my job for 10yrs now both in the USMC and now in Federal LE. I'm 6'1 and have been pumping iron for most of that time too. Felt recoil is indeed a deciding factor in a defensive pistol. Provided that you are using a proven military/police caliber like 9mm, .40S&W, or .45acp.....you should be maximizing your ability to fire rapidly, and fire accurately. Uncomfortable recoil inhibits this.

5'11", not in great shape, 41, been carrying firearms professionally since age 19. CZ P01 is my current authorized off duty sidearm, currently qualify Expert or Distinguished Expert in my Dept every year.

Ken Rainey
December 24, 2008, 01:29 PM
A friend of mine has a Springfield lightweight Champion that he bought used from someone at a good price...he brought it to me due to functioning issues. After a good cleaning and inspection, I found that it had a mis shaped hook on the extractor..factory sent new one, no charge....I tuned the new extractor and the pistol runs fine...it's a nice size and weight for carry of a .45 auto....

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