Calling all AR-15 Shooters (paticularlly carbines)


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Tang419
December 22, 2008, 05:06 AM
What kind of accuracy are you getting, with factory and with pet handloads with a 16" barrel ? Is it possible to get varminter accuracy without a bull barrel and free floated handguard ?

While we are on this subject, is a bull or heavy barrel, really needed to get the upmost accuracy out of a gun, or does it really shine when a lot of rounds are going to be fired ?

Thanks !

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Double Naught Spy
December 22, 2008, 07:40 AM
When tested, I have found mine will get around 1 MOA if I do my part.

Is that good enough for your needs?

Note that barrel length doesn't determine accuracy after a certain point and carbines are well beyond that point.

JWarren
December 22, 2008, 10:01 AM
Ditto the 1 MOA at 100 yards, if I do my part.


-- John

RockyMtnTactical
December 22, 2008, 11:36 AM
Even my superlight 16" will shoot 1 1/2 MOA when I do my part and use good ammo.

alsaqr
December 22, 2008, 12:10 PM
My Stag Arms model 3L makes minute of angle 3 shot groups at 100 yards using LC 67 military ammo. The scope is the excellent Leupold FXII 4X33.

Jason M
December 22, 2008, 02:48 PM
My best so far is .875" (.835 MOA, 5 shots) with factory ammo. Del-Ton upper, 16" heavy barrel.

Hk Dan
December 22, 2008, 04:02 PM
Sub 1 MOA, probably capable of better. That's out of 2 Bushmasters, a 20" and a 16". The AR-10 will do .3 MOA (1 hole).

Dan

FlyinBryan
December 22, 2008, 04:10 PM
mine isnt the heavy bull barrel, but it is the hbar version.

lots of folks dont care for the hbar model but i just love it.

its not that much more accurate, maybe 1/2" better than a comparable m4, but for me its perfect.

its really not that much heavier.

i think an m4 is about 6.3lbs
the hbar model i have is 6.8, so its only about 8oz more.

i get about 1/2moa pretty easy with handloads.

dont shoot factory so i cant really say on that.

heres a link to another thread with a few target pics and one of the rifle.

its a bushmaster.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5088537#post5088537

Birdhunter1
December 22, 2008, 04:12 PM
I am getting 1/2-3/4 MOA out of my 1:9 twist 16" bull barrel Oly arms AR-15 with a 40 gr. Nosler and 27.5 grains H335 with the OAL as long as I can go and still fit in the mag.

rcmodel
December 22, 2008, 05:34 PM
My old Colt SP-1 pencil barrel carbine & EOTech will shoot under an inch with handloads.

About 80 yards:
Nosler 55 grain Ballistic-Tips -- Win 55 grain BTFMJ
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/EoTecGroup.jpg

rcmodel

Bubba613
December 22, 2008, 06:56 PM
I get .75 MOA shooting off hand.
All AR's will do this. Or haven't you heard?

Coal Dragger
December 22, 2008, 08:23 PM
With good ammo mine would do about 1-1.25 MOA. Then the barrel became pitted. We'll see what it does with a new barrel, as I am going to be making a big upgrade in that department when I get a new barrel.

HOLY DIVER
December 22, 2008, 08:35 PM
coal dragger what caused your barrel to pitt?not trying to hyjack the thread but i'm interested

Heck
December 22, 2008, 09:16 PM
not sure. I have iron sights on mine and i can't shoot them very well yet. have thought about scoping it to see what it will do.

Topkick
December 22, 2008, 10:28 PM
Not to hijack the thread -but- comments on the care, feeding & experience with the M15A2 (556), accuracy etc, heavy 20" bbl. All help, & comments appreciated. Thanks fellows.

SHvar
December 23, 2008, 01:10 AM
Never really measured the shot groups, but mine makes tight groups even with a 1x32 scope (no magnification at all).
Mine is a heavy barrel, its a bit front heavy (not as bad as some might think), but I love the way it shoots.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z281/SHvar/Picture063.jpg

jackdanson
December 23, 2008, 01:15 AM
16in sw mp15. 1 to 1&1/2 moa 5 shot groups. (if I do my part using m193 55gr loads)

Rubber_Duck
December 23, 2008, 02:50 AM
With a bipod and rear sandbags I can get 2-3" groups, however this is with mil-spec 5.56x45mm ammo. I'm sure using higher quality .223 match or varmint rounds, as well as magnified optics, will yield much better accuracy (although I have NM/DCM sights, they seem to help).

I'm using a Bushmaster carbine with a 16" M4-profile barrel, with C7A1/A1 improved upper, and National Match A2 sights.

Coal Dragger
December 23, 2008, 03:18 AM
000Buckshot,

Not sure what caused the pitting, the rifle was always cleaned after being fired and the bore was always oiled after cleaning. The pitting occurs about 1/2" from the muzzle and is visible to the naked eye with the aid of a flashlight. I am quite perplexed by this, as no other pitting is evident anywhere else in the bore.

The barrel is a 1/7 twist chrome lined CMMG unit, in a CMMG upper receiver. I made several attempts to contact CMMG about the issue but the line is always busy during normal business hours, and every attempt at returning my message failed on their end. When I would try to call back, I just got the busy signal on the other end of the line.

Given my experience with CMMG products and service (or lack thereof) I would recommend not purchasing anything AR related from them. At least not if you ever want to have it serviced should problems arise. They might take care of the problem, but I will never know apparently because they seem to have only one single phone line that is always busy, and from the sound of it only one individual that takes care of all "customer service".:banghead:

helz_mcfugly
December 24, 2008, 01:51 AM
rcmodel, how do we know thats not a really huge target and you just made it look like 9/16th and 1 7/8th inch groups. you should ALWAYS toss a dime in the picture. ive convinced my wife that this |---------------------------------| is nine inches and tossed out all messuring devices in the house. could you been pulling the same tom foolery as myself., hmm Mr rcmodel hmmmm

no but really, my m4 barrel would get 2 inch groups at 100 yards, I didnt know they got so slim behind the handguard till I took it off to free float it, my buds A2 ? I think it is has a factory bushy barrel that shoots 1 inch to 1 1/2 groups.

helz_mcfugly
December 24, 2008, 02:05 AM
Hey Coal Dragger, did you ever run any moly coated bullets through that pitted barrel. that shizz will pitt a barrel real quick if you dont know propper cleaning after using moly. here is a good read for ya if you DID use moly.

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/moly.htm

Thin Black Line
December 24, 2008, 08:15 AM
Getting 1 moa in a M1S chrome-lined 16" heavy 1-9 with a free float YHM
quad rail and 75 gr wolf gold. Has a "few" thousand rds thru it.

Lucky to get 3 moa in a mixed bag 16" chrome-lined 1-7 M4 cut with anything
of any weight from 55 to 75. Has no more than 2k thru it. No improvement
even with great optics. Not free floated.

1 to 3 MOA with a Bushm 14.5" w/ Permanent AK brake depending on ammo.
Has 10+k rds thru it. Not free floated.

SoCalShooter
December 24, 2008, 11:59 AM
Well if I do my part I get 1 moa or better with my bushy upper.

Shung
December 24, 2008, 12:01 PM
with my 14.5 barreled SDI m4, and ACOG, I can constantly hit a volley ball at 300m... I let you do the maths to find the MOA precision..

rcmodel
December 24, 2008, 12:34 PM
rcmodel, how do we know thats not a really huge target and you just made it look like 9/16th and 1 7/8th inch groups. you should ALWAYS toss a dime in the picture. .223 bullet holes are still .223 bullet holes.
Measure or compare them to the group measurements.

I fail to see what good a dime in the picture would do anyway.
I could easily toss a dime on the target after shooting it at 10 yards and not 80 yards like I said I did.

Bottom line, you either believe me, or you don't!

rcmodel

helz_mcfugly
December 24, 2008, 01:11 PM
I was just crackin a funny on ya rc. I can tell how big your target is. I didnt think you would take that seriously. just trying to make ya laugh. I tend to have a glass of wine while posting on here sometimes, take all my postes after 6pm with a grain of salt. Bottom line, you either take a joke, or you don't. just above Bottom line, I believe ya.

rcmodel
December 24, 2008, 01:17 PM
Well, O.K. then! :D

I for sure thought you were questioning my honesty.

And it probably is hard to believe.
I shot that target, and several others about like it, while sighting in a new EoTech & load testing with Nosler Ballistic-Tip hand-loads at the same time.

I could hardly believe it myself.

rcmodel

helz_mcfugly
December 24, 2008, 01:25 PM
nah, not hard to believe at all. every once in a while I would get a 3/4 group at 100 yards shooting my bushmaster m4 16" when it was new (non altered) using a hand loaded cheap hornady 55 grain fmj. it didnt happen much, maybe twice out of the hundreds of groups I shot with those, but it did happen.

ashtxsniper
December 24, 2008, 01:44 PM
Bushmaster Hbar 16" with 55 grn sierra prohunters I get barely sub moa groups.

Coal Dragger
December 24, 2008, 08:54 PM
helz mcfugly: Hey Coal Dragger, did you ever run any moly coated bullets through that pitted barrel. that shizz will pitt a barrel real quick if you dont know propper cleaning after using moly. here is a good read for ya if you DID use moly.


No moly was ever put through the barrel at all.

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