Fold up/Compact .22lr survival rifle


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Bubba613
December 22, 2008, 02:19 PM
Customer is looking for said gun.
It must be:
-bolt action to cycle subsonic ammo
-stainless/polymer construction for durability.
-very short or capable of being made so.

Also possible to work off an existing platform, using aftermarket stock etc.
Any ideas?

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lipadj46
December 22, 2008, 02:54 PM
A semi auto can cycle subsonic ammo just fine. If it is not strong enough to cycle the action just pull the bolt back manually. Honestly if I were looking for a folding survival rifle it would be the keltec sub 2000 in .40 but 9mm would be fine too. I know it is not .22 and not bolt action but it is cheap, reliable and fairly accurate.

Otherwise if it must be .22 the ones I know of are:
- Springfield Armory M6 Scout - it folds and is probably closest to what you are asking about
- Marlin Papoose - screw takedown
- Survival arms AR-7 - screw takedown
- Henry Survival Rifle - screw takedown

gunmaker2872
December 22, 2008, 03:39 PM
m6 scout

Leadhead
December 22, 2008, 03:54 PM
It's a single shot but otherwise the Henry mini bolt would be a nice light package....

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/henry_mini_bolt.jpg

regal
December 23, 2008, 06:35 AM
unfortunately what you are looking for doesn't exist. What you describe is the perfect rifle for WTSHTF.

Have you considered a Ruger .22 semi-auto pistol?

Something like this:

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=10120&return=Y#

You coulc cycle the colibri manually. It take a scope. You could do some discrete varmit hunting WTSHTF.

Leadhead
December 23, 2008, 03:31 PM
A youth model CZ with a custom survival style stock would be good as well if you want a bolt action repeater....

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
December 23, 2008, 05:00 PM
I know it's not what he asked for, but shooting subsonic ammo from a rifle barrel of 18" or so reduces the velocity to the point where it's no more effective than a spring or air powered pellet gun keeping effective ranges to much less than 75yds.

I'll second the Ruger SS Gov Target model MKII with 6 7/8" barrel or the 10" barrel. I have shot standard velocity rounds out to 100yds hitting 4" plate with repetition off hand. Subsonic ammo would be accurate and have acceptable velocity to 50yds.

I would suggest replacing the main/hammer spring with the Trapper reduced power kit if a MKII was to be expected to shoot subsonic fodder reliably.

But the Ruger 10-22 carbine (stainless barrel, aluminum reciever) has a plethora of aftermarket barrels, composite, pistol, and folding stocks available for it. It can be made to shoot subsonic ammo if need be.

-Steve

T191032
December 23, 2008, 05:03 PM
"Customer is looking for said gun.
It must be:
-bolt action to cycle subsonic ammo
-stainless/polymer construction for durability.
-very short or capable of being made so.

Also possible to work off an existing platform, using aftermarket stock etc.
Any ideas? "


Assuming "very short" is LEGAL length, the mentioned Henry Mini- and Acu-Bolt rifles fit the requirements. If you want a repeater, then look at Savage Mk II line, they have a 20" Bbl that can be trimed to 16.50" (something that I had considered, but never bothered as the shorter the barrel, the more noise you get).

bhk
December 23, 2008, 05:37 PM
"know it's not what he asked for, but shooting subsonic ammo from a rifle barrel of 18" or so reduces the velocity to the point where it's no more effective than a spring or air powered pellet gun keeping effective ranges to much less than 75yds."

Actually, .22 ammo reaches its maximum velocity in a 16-18" barrel and the resulting muzzle energy (and resulting effectiveness) will be several times that of an air rifle (partially due to the much heavier .22 bullet). Some air rifles produce velocities close to .22s, but that is because the pellets are so very light. .22 handguns, do have significantly less power than the rifles due to their much shorter barrels, but the muzzle energy will still greatly exceed air rifles.

The poster I quoted above may have been thinking of cartridges like the Aquilla .22s that DO have very little power and won't cylce a semi-auto. Most subsonics have velocities in the 1100 fps range, easily cylcing semi-autos. Some are loading so close to the super-sonic speed (like Remington subsonics) that I get about 1 in 10 actually breaking the sound barrier. Pretty easy to tell when this happens because of the loud 'crack' the shot makes in comparison to the shots fired just before and after.

I have a stainless 10/22 with a folding Butler Creek stock that would fit your needs just fine.

NCsmitty
December 23, 2008, 06:22 PM
A stainless, synthetic stock Cricket weighs about 2.5 lbs. Small, light and effective but single shot.

NCsmitty

OOOXOOO
December 23, 2008, 07:11 PM
I have a Marlin Papoose and love it. It fits all your needs except the bolt action. I have also seen suppressed barrels for them that are the stock length. The M6 would be my second choice. Ihave owned an AR-7 and it was a waist of metal.

goon
December 23, 2008, 07:32 PM
IIRC, Savage makes a youth version of their MKII that is already pretty compact.
I'd suggest you get a romanian AK side-folding stock, get a rifle, and figure out what kind of act of congress you'd need to get the two mated up.

Good concept. I'd like to see it in production. I'd probably buy one.

gunmaker2872
December 23, 2008, 07:39 PM
get a ruger charger, the only pistol in 10 22 action




http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/jbmovingservice/1227767925.jpg

Leadhead
December 23, 2008, 10:06 PM
I guess since your client is worried about CB's not cycling a semi-auto they are looking for a repeater.....

Like others have said above, you can shoot CB longs out of a semi but you need to work the bolt just like a bolt action only straight pull.

I shoot CB's with my papoose and a red dot....golf balls are not safe out to about 40 yards.

crushbup
December 23, 2008, 10:23 PM
Kel-Tec PLR22 with tax stamp and AR stock adapter. Should be handy little SBR.

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
December 23, 2008, 10:58 PM
OK, maybe my comparison to a pellet rifle was an exageration, but 'sub sonic', less than 1100fps, no not 1124fps flirting with the speed of sound, as in a subsonic target round or CB's that are well less than that, do actually loose velocity in longer barrels.

-Steve

bhk
December 24, 2008, 10:24 AM
Actually not. The true target/match rounds (Eley, Lapua, Federal Match, etc) are all subsonic at around 1050 fps. They loose velocity when barrels lengthen much beyond 18". When shot through very long target guns, the velocity and 'bang' are significanty reduced. The true target rounds do function just fine in most semi-autos. It would, of course, pay to test each type of subsonic ammo in YOUR gun to make sure.

CBs are a totally different story. They have MUCH reduced velocity (750 to 850 fps) and will not function in semis. While these are definately subsonic, they are not what is usually refered to when the 'subsonic' term used. These are not target rounds (plinking, yes) and are, quite frankly, very inaccurate in comparison to true target rounds or what is often labeled subsonic hunting rounds (Remington subsonics, CCI subsonics, and the new Winchester subsonics). These, again, will have velocities in the 1050 to 1100 fps.

I just interrupted this typing to step outside the door and test three subsonic makes (Lapua, CCI, and Eley - all hollow points) in my 10/22. I usually shoot them from a bolt action. They functioned fine in the 10/22 and all hit what I was aiming at about 85 yards across a ravine by my drive.

Of course, we really don't know what the OP was referring to when he stated 'subsonic' ammo. Is he asking about the 1050 fps hunting or target subsonics (most likely), or is he referring to CB caps or Aguilla Colibris. Neither the CBs or the Colibris are good for anything but informal, close range plinking. I shoot them off my deck sometimes. Yes they are fun, but they are not for any survival situation unless we are worried about attacking mice and rats.

ArmedBear
December 24, 2008, 10:45 AM
Marlin Papoose -- new models are stainless/synthetic and come with a floating case.

Don't forget the Browning SA-22 and the Marlin 39 lever gun -- both are also takedowns. With a lever action, you don't have to worry about cycling, and cleaning/oiling aren't as critical either.

Ruger's pistols are excellent. A stainless Mk II or III, or better yet IMO a stainless 22/45, are good guns, and accurate. Why anyone would want a 10/22-based pistol is beyond me; the rifle is bad enough. Ruger makes GREAT .22 pistols, much better in every way than the 10/22 is -- better construction, better reliability, better features, better accuracy, better magazines.

bhk
December 24, 2008, 11:10 AM
Realize that if the OP is stating 'subsonic' ammo to keep his shooting quiet, choosing a 10/22 pistol will totally defeat his purpose. Subsonics (the normal target/hunting type that will function in the pistol) will be noiser than the high speed stuff out of a rifle.

rangerruck
December 24, 2008, 11:19 AM
16 inch bbl for a rifle is legally as short as you can go, otherwise go for a long bbl pistol, this is much better for a shtf 22 anyway, much better. a bolt action , with a collapsable or foldable stock, I have never heard of such a thing.
Yyou would have to do a custom job.
the above dudes list, with the papoose on it; the papoose is the way to go.
the best of all is the most expensive; majestic arms, takedown-swithc bbl.
uses a alumi-lite bbl, that is very accurate.

ArmedBear
December 24, 2008, 11:21 AM
Piggybacking on bhk: the 10/22 pistol HAS little purpose. It's a toy for the shooter who has everything, not a survival tool.

That said, a semiauto .22 is not the best choice for a survival gun. My Ruger pistol is incredibly reliable, but it still wouldn't run if I got it full of mud and didn't give it a good cleaning -- which is a bit of a PITA if you don't have a table.

For survival, I'd get a stainless .22 bolt gun with irons, put on a 4X Nikon scope covered with a neoprene cover, and be done with it. Easy to clean, works the same with every type of ammo from CBs to Velocitors, and will be quietest with subsonics. Another option would be something like an H&R single shot. We're not talking about plinking, here.:)

rangerruck
December 24, 2008, 11:22 AM
one more thing; testing has shown , about for 1000 years now, that high velocity 22 ammo only needs 15 to 16 inches of bbl to max out velocity, not 1
inch more. Even the absolute fastest hypervelocity ammo, stingers, velocitors, and the king/ interceptors, can get it done, by 17-18 inches.
Subsonic rounds only need 10-12 inches of bbl, to max out velocity, depending on their ind. speeds.

Loggerlee
December 24, 2008, 03:04 PM
An M4 with a 22lr kit?

renegade1alpha
September 14, 2009, 04:27 AM
I have an M6 scout rifle and it fits the bill for what you are looking for. Good luck trying to find one that is not over priced!

natman
September 14, 2009, 08:33 AM
Stainless Marlin Papoose

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/SelfLoading/70PSS.asp

Not a bolt action, but I wouldn't be surprised if it cycled subsonic ammo even if it won't cycle CBs.

Otherwise it fits perfectly.

Guvnor
September 14, 2009, 09:27 AM
I recently bought a single shot NEF sportster .22 for that exact purpose. A little over 5 pounds and 36 inches long. I wanted the single shot so I could shoot anything from .22 shorts to hypervelocity long rifle. You can break it down by removing one phillips head screw, and the forearm and barrel come right off. Once taken down, the 3 pieces can easily be stowed away in a backpack or whatever. Im in the process of trying to rig up some sort of soft case for it.

Its a great shooter as well. Very happy with it.

GunTech
September 14, 2009, 12:23 PM
Garcia bronco rifle? It's a single shot. So is the Stevens 30. Looking at other autos, the Browning semi-auto takes down too.

If you want a non semi-automatic repeater, there's the Marlin 39

rangerruck
September 14, 2009, 12:46 PM
There is truly only one;
the marlin papoose stainless, if you can find a very old one, with the front attached forestock, that would be supercool.
the only other one I would choose would be Majestic arms, quad model.

VA27
September 14, 2009, 08:18 PM
http://www.pakrifle.com/Pak-Rifle.html

rangerruck
September 15, 2009, 12:12 AM
okay, me likey that one as well....

cpileri
September 15, 2009, 01:43 AM
Might fold up short enough for your needs:
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73873&page=3&pp=15&highlight=tri-folding

C-

paintballdude902
September 15, 2009, 01:51 AM
id have to go with a 10/22 carbine in a folding stock it will probably cycle sub sonic ammo or at least feed and eject you may have to cycle by hand

15guns
September 15, 2009, 06:14 AM
a fold up 22 survival rifle. sound like you need a ruger 10/22 and put a folding stock it.

beefsalad
September 15, 2009, 08:21 AM
How about a feather industries? I know it's not a single shot/bolt action, but it's collapsible and has a small footprint. I'm not sure about their current models, but the pre-bans had a fully collapsible stock.

CZguy
September 15, 2009, 09:01 AM
VA27,

Do you own one of those pac rifles? They look really nice but I'd sure like to hear from some people who own one, before buying one. Especially at that price.

FSJeeper
September 15, 2009, 10:39 AM
Ditto that CZguy! VA27, any other info you can get on these would be appreciated.

That pakgun truly looks like the ultimate survival rifel, and at 1 pound, it is a winner.

If the quality and function of the rifle is excellent, I am definitely buying one.

esq_stu
September 15, 2009, 11:41 AM
I agree with the 10/22 comments - my 10/22 has never failed with subsonic ammo. Put a folder on it and you're good to go. So many after market parts are available for it your mind will spin.

GunTech
September 15, 2009, 12:12 PM
A lot of what was once known as 'standard velocity' is subsonic. And some is now marked that way. Should function fine in a 10/22

This thread has got me thinking. I may need to redesign my bolt action 223 take down survival rifle in 22 LR.

9mm+
September 15, 2009, 12:45 PM
Not a bolt-action, but the Henry AR-7 is a great emergency/survival 22 rifle.

ROCK6
September 16, 2009, 05:55 AM
I wish Marlin would make a carbine version of their 981T .22LR rifle...bolt action, tube magazine (nothing to lose)...add a folding stock and that's a pretty good little piece.

I have a few that are adequate.

M6 Sprinfield Scout 22/410; I added the Trijicon Relfex which works like a charm! The Marlin Papoose is another great option, although it's semi-auto. Taurus use to have the nice little Model 62 reproduction in break-down carbine model...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/ROCK-6/RangeDay-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/ROCK-6/RangeDay-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/ROCK-6/Firearms/DSC03172.jpg

I also have the folding stock 10/22 with ghost ring sights and of course the diminutive single shot Chipmunk.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/ROCK-6/The22collection.jpg

ROCK6

Vern Humphrey
September 16, 2009, 02:52 PM
I know it's not what he asked for, but shooting subsonic ammo from a rifle barrel of 18" or so reduces the velocity to the point where it's no more effective than a spring or air powered pellet gun keeping effective ranges to much less than 75yds.
Until the 1930s, all .22 LR ammunition was sub-sonic -- and was still quite effective when it comes to killing game. If your intention is to shoot more than .25 yards, sub-sonic (standard velocity) ammunition will prove more accurate, since high velocity rounds fall below the speed of sound at that range and that causes problems.

I designed (but never made) a buttstock for my Colt Woodsman. To make it and attach it to the gun would cost $$$ and involve a lot of paperwork. But for anyone who wants one, the design would work well with almost any other automatic pistol.

It starts with a strip of steel shaped to fit the pistol's backstrap and covered with a layer of neoprene bonded to the steel. The buttstock is attached with screws and is cut to allow shooting with the right arm fully extended. It is held to the pistol butt with a nylon strap and camlok buckle. If it wasn't for the %%$#@ law, I'd have one on my Woodsman right now, and it would fill the bill for the customer very nicely.

VA27
September 16, 2009, 07:34 PM
All I know about the pakrifle is what you see at their site. I'm waiting for some beta tester to buy one and report on it.

If they made it in 22mag I'd have one already. There was talk about a fast-twist barrel to offer positive stability with the Agila SSS, but I don't know if they have done one yet.

mp510
September 16, 2009, 11:06 PM
If he really wants a bolt action, he should look into the Daisy Legacy that was made (IIRC) during the alte 80s or early 90s. They had a 10 shot rotary magazine, synthetic stock (adjustable LOP, option wood furniture available), aluminum receiver (grooved for scope) and a plastic sleeved octagonal barrel. I shot one a lot when I was a kit. Making cans dance at 70 yard was easy with that rifle.

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