Using a pawn shop as a FFL transfer agent for a new firearm - mistake?


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Yosemite Sam
December 22, 2008, 10:47 PM
This is my very first firearm purchase ever. Went out-of-state to buy it, which requires that I have to have them ship it to a FFL. The only FFL in my town is the pawn shop. I have zero experience with pawn shops.

I got a call today saying they received it and that I could come in to pick it up tomorrow. I asked why tomorrow and the manager said that they had to "enter it into their system at the end of the day."

Now, I live in a gun-friendly state that doesn't require 1) a permit to purchase, 2) a permit to own, and 3) registration with anybody.

Call me a little paranoid, but I do like my privacy. And this is my first firearm purchase ever (first of many -- I think I got this disease you all have :D ) and don't want my name in some computer database.

It wouldn't make sense that this gun is stolen since it's brand new. ("Factory Test Fire" is what it said on the sticker, and the salesman said it was new.)

This is from their website:

Question: Are there firearms in pawnshops?

Response: Pawnshops are registered firearms dealers with permanent places of business. Pawnshops comply with all Federal (ATF) regulations as well as furnishing local law enforcement with information regarding every transaction. No other dealer does this. As registered licensed dealers, pawnshops comply with the 5 day waiting period and back ground checks required by the Brady Bill. Federal firearms regulations require an individual to be 21 years of age to purchase a handgun and 18 years of age to purchase a long gun. Pawnshops provide a unique public service by taking guns as collateral for pawn loans. They are the only business that actually takes guns out of circulation and keeps them locked up in secured vaults. There are an estimated 1.5 million secured firearms in pawn shop vaults across America.

Question: Should photographing or fingerprinting pawnshop customers be required?

Response: Pawnshop customers already provide full identification with each transaction, a copy of which goes to local law enforcement. Additionally, most pawnshops maintain surveillance cameras in their stores, the same system used by banks. To require anything more than required by banks implies there is a relationship between how much money one has and their integrity. You have questioned the quality of their character based on financial status - a form of discrimination.

I'm not buying one of their products, just using them as a FFL transfer for a brand new handgun. I don't want the police to have a full copy of who I am and what I own. No thanks. Hope I'll be all right.

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oldhack62
December 22, 2008, 10:53 PM
It's a federal license your pawnbroker has -- of course there is going to be federal record-keeping/paperwork involved.
Besides, the pawn shop is going to make a profit on the transaction. It is, after all, a business. So, logging in and, subsequently, out, your gun isn't much different than a bookstore keeping track of how much it paid for your recent book purchase when they received it, and how much you bought it for.
EVERY state requires a cursory check, even if you don't need a permit to buy a handgun, to make sure you're legally eligible to buy it.
If you get good service from your pawn shop, don't borrow trouble over it.

Fifteen+1
December 22, 2008, 11:14 PM
Why don't you want local government to know what you have, I would worry more about the federal government. Seems to me with something like this your not allowed to have a gun......Maybe I am wrong, but with that statement that's the way it seems. You do realize that FFL stands for Federal Firearms License ? They will have a record of who you are, and what you have, and they have just a little bit more power than the local guys.

MICHAEL T
December 22, 2008, 11:25 PM
He has to log it in his book then out when you pick it up. You will need to fill out the 4473 just like a normal sale. I don't see the problem Seems like a normal out of state sale. Done all over the country many times a week.

cuervo
December 22, 2008, 11:30 PM
Having a pawnshop do the transfer is no different than a gun shop. He is an FFL and is going to have to follow those rules just like a gun shop's FFL would. He is just telling you that he does not log in the guns he receives until the end of the business day, so you can't pick it up until he logs it in.

I think the "transactions" they are talking about is for actual pawning of guns and other items. Anything they receive via a pawn, they are responsible for verifying it's not stolen.

I don't think a new gun going out is treated like a pawned gun coming in.

And, as Michael mentioned, you'll have to use a 4473 since it is through a dealer. If you are really paranoid, stick to in-state private sales only (while you still can).

MT GUNNY
December 22, 2008, 11:35 PM
Yo, Sam;

You said;Call me a little paranoid, but I do like my privacy. And this is my first firearm purchase ever (first of many -- I think I got this disease you all have ) and don't want my name in some computer database.


The situation is very simple, If You picked up that Firearm at the original store you bought it from they would have done the same Paper work and system entering that the Pawn shop has to do. All FFL's Have to enter the Firearm in to Inventory. The Only thing your Name Goes on is the NICS form.

MT GUNNY
December 22, 2008, 11:39 PM
If you payed for the gun at the Original store, then the Pawn shop Doesn't Make Any profit on that sale. The only thing the Pawn shop can do is charge a transfer fee. The reason they charge transfer fees is because it takes time from there business that they are not getting payed for.

shiftyer1
December 22, 2008, 11:43 PM
I run a pawnshop and I gotta say that 99.9% are very reputable. We have several state and gov. agencies that govern us and keep a close eye on what we do. He has to enter it into the system according to federal law. Although I don't know why he didn't do it right then. Pawn shops get a bad rep because if you don't pay the interest we sell your items. Just like a bank on a smaller scale. I'll give ya a tip though if ya promise not to tell anyone............make friends with the pawnbroker and see if the prices get better.

Master Blaster
December 23, 2008, 08:44 AM
He's an FFL he must log it in and log it out and do the background check when you come get it.

All FFL's must comply with the law unless they want to risk losing their FFL and staying in Club fed for a couple years.

What you were hoping he would do is ILLEGAL, Period.

subknave
December 23, 2008, 09:06 AM
The only thing different about the scenario you stated and where I get my stuff sent too is at my gunshop/pawnshop they do everything by hand and have a very low volume so when something comes in they immediately log it into their books and give me a call. Sounds to me like they just log everything at the end of the day and thats just the way they do business, maybe it is more convenient for them. I would advise you to just go with the flow and let them do their business. Make friends with them and you'll have fewer problems in the future than if you start pissing them off and they decide they don't want you business anymore and you have to go somewhere else.

Yosemite Sam
December 24, 2008, 02:44 AM
Thanks for the comments, everyone. Picked it up today and it went really fast and easy. There's some FFLs nearby that are $20 cheaper so I might go somewhere else next time just because of price.

For the record, I wasn't asking the pawn shop to do anything illegal. I was just curious why the pawn shop sent copies of all transactions to the police as opposed to buying a gun at a regular dealer who would simply do the NICS check but not send a copy of the transaction to the police.

My beef is that registration is one step closer to confiscation, that's all. I wasn't asking that he not log in and log out the transaction for business purposes. I was confused at how a pawn shop might do more than a regular shop.

What you were hoping he would do is ILLEGAL, Period.
Miscommunication. I wasn't asking anything illegal. Just didn't understand the "above and beyond" thing with turning everything over to the police. All I want is the NICS check and the normal FFL paperwork.

They will have a record of who you are, and what you have, and they have just a little bit more power than the local guys.

Then how is this different than cities like Washington, DC that require gun registration? So a state that doesn't require registration is the same as a state that does -- some government agency will have a record of the purchase?

I think the "transactions" they are talking about is for actual pawning of guns and other items. Anything they receive via a pawn, they are responsible for verifying it's not stolen.

I don't think a new gun going out is treated like a pawned gun coming in.

Ah, gotcha. I'm guessing the local PD wasn't involved then.

Heck, I used to work in dispatch and remember running car stereos and gun serial numbers through the state database to check if they were stolen. I don't remember us keeping any of the paperwork -- just taking 30 seconds on the computer to see if it was stolen. I'm worrying too much. Overall, a good experience for my first gun purchase.

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