Suppressed for HD


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30mag
December 23, 2008, 02:50 AM
What is a firearm (auto-loading handgun) that I could get suppressed that would be effective for home defense?

Preferences:
Full size handgun.
9mm
Cheap
Long suppressor life

Requirements:
(relatively) Quiet
Reasonable cost

I'm open to suggestions.

I own a CZ-75b, if I could get a threaded barrel and a suppressor, that'd be cool.

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Riss
December 23, 2008, 03:20 AM
I have heard that Angus ( Ghost Holster Inc) may be the only one besides, possibly Storm Lake, that makes extended barrels for the CZ that could be threaded for a suppressor. And I believe that he has none on hand. Any of the major manufacturers should have something that will fit and live long. AAC, AWC, Gemtech are all good names and stand by their products. Not that that list is all inclusive, the list is way long and can be found in a thread of its own. Only problem with the 9mm is the ballistic crack from the supersonic bullet. Slow the bullet down and it should be as quiet as a 45 suppressed. The newest AAC can that I heard was movie gun quiet, using a little water as coolant media though. Otherwise it was quiet, but not impressive. Basically anything that you can get a threaded barrel for can be suppressed. Anything, like a Glock or 1911 that uses a Browning type, or tilting barrel can be a little finicky when suppressed and with some cans is a single shot only. BUT, that will only make them just that little more quiet.

xx7grant7x
December 23, 2008, 03:20 AM
YHM cobra

WardenWolf
December 23, 2008, 03:47 AM
I strongly recommend against using a suppressor for home defense because it immediately casts a burden of suspicion on you. As in, "Why did you not want your neighbors to hear the shots? Are you hiding something? Might you have moved or changed something in between when you shot him and called us?" It will automatically go from simple self-defense, where there's a bit of paperwork but the police leave and that's the end of it, to a full criminal investigation that will involve search warrants and "temporary" surrendering of the gun used. If no one else hears the gunshot, no one else can corroborate your story by saying it happened at x time.

If your neighbors don't hear it, they also won't call police, which may be bad if you are in a condition that prevents you from doing so. A loud gun almost ensures SOMEONE will call police.

Bottom line: don't use suppressors for home defense. There's no benefit, and it could see you land in prison on a false murder charge, or on the hook for major legal bills even if you win. At the very least, it will severely complicate even the most cut and dried self-defense scenario.

outerlimit
December 23, 2008, 09:55 AM
Only problem with the 9mm is the ballistic crack from the supersonic bullet.

Try 147gr for starters.

Or even 158gr. (Fiocchi makes it)

Jim Watson
December 23, 2008, 10:11 AM
I agree with Mike. The Ayoob Files once covered a guy who had occasion to shoot a couple of crooks with a full auto. It was clearly self defense and nothing would have been said if he had used a semiauto, but he took a lot of hassle for that "machine gun." I think a supressor could have the same problem if you bumped into the wrong DA.

WoofersInc
December 23, 2008, 04:07 PM
I also believe using a suppressor on a defense gun can cause issues. I know there are the "If it's a good shoot it won't matter" crowd but they are not the ones working in the DA's office or the one's that will be sitting on a potential jury hearing your case.
There are gun people who are not aware that suppressors are legal or who don't think people should have them. What type of person do you expect to have on that jury? Now have the DA standing there telling them about your evil assassins tool.
I know that if I ever have to use my sidearm in self defense I am already going to have to fight in court about the number and type of firearms I own plus the fact that I own multiple suppressors.
To me it is not worth the risks.

30mag
December 24, 2008, 12:25 AM
Well, the only reason that threw in home defense is because I don't want anyone recommending compact guns and their ilk. Ideally, I would just use the suppressor during target practice... I have a twelve gauge for HD.


That being said... I'm changing my mind...
I just want something real quiet.

.22lr?

CPshooter
December 24, 2008, 02:15 AM
I see where most of you are coming from, but if you are actually innocent (which you are in self-defense), how can anyone PROVE that you are guilty of MURDER?

It's not going to happen.

I understand you might have more questions to answer, but there's so many ways to prove your story matches the scene before they prove you are guilty of murder just because you have a can on your gun.

If you are prowling the streets with a silenced gun in your car when it happens, then you MIGHT have a problem. But in your home? No way. An annoying trial? Big deal. Someone could have taken your life in your own home, and you took action. Proving your innocence in court is a small price to pay for your life. In the end, if you were acting in self-defense it will be proven and you will get to go home eventually.

Also, if the state granted you legal ownership of the suppressor and you have all the paperwork to prove it then what's the problem? There are plenty of law-abiding citizens out there that have HUGE gun collections. Again, if you legally own all those guns and a legal silencer happened to be on the one you grabbed, then they can't do squat...

If the silencer is illegal, and the person you shot in self-defense is a relative or someone you know well, THEN you're going to be in deep crap.

Now, is it worth the tactical advantage? Probably not. Is it worth saving you from certain hearing damage? Maybe...

Would I keep a can on a bed-side handgun? Yes..if only I could afford to own one:)

louie19
December 24, 2008, 02:24 AM
If you're going to all that trouble for target practice, I'd just get better ear protection and double it up. Yknow, in-ear plugs + electronic-enhanced over-the-ear muffs. Also, I think suppressors decrease accuracy which is not good for your target practice either.

If you get the electronic ear muffs that amplify quiet sounds (aka potential BGs) and suppress loud sounds (you defending yourself), then they could be good for HD as well.

WoofersInc
December 24, 2008, 10:14 AM
Also, I think suppressors decrease accuracy which is not good for your target practice either.

Actually most modern suppressors do not affect accuracy at all. In the case of my HK it is actually more accurate for me with the suppressor on it. I have also seen zero accuracy issues with my 22 suppressor and that one is used on multiple guns.
As for going to the trouble they are a lot of fun to shoot and it is nice to be able to shoot without having to use hearing protection.

Javelin
December 24, 2008, 10:49 AM
Even with an LID/LED or a very light awesome Can (such as a Trident-9 or EVO-9)... All suppressors *can* impede the reliability of a pistol due to something extra hanging off of the end of the barrel as it cycles.

Just FYI.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7406/swr1lj3.jpg

:)

waterhouse
December 24, 2008, 10:55 AM
Bottom line: don't use suppressors for home defense. There's no benefit

Lack of hearing loss, for one. Yes, my bedside handgun has a suppressor on it. I also agree with what Javelin said. . .if you do put a can on your defensive gun put it through the same tests with the can as you would any carry gun (some people say 500 rounds, some say 100, whatever.) Mine has gone thousands of rounds with the can on it, and I'm happy with the reliability.

If you're going to all that trouble for target practice, I'd just get better ear protection and double it up.

While I value my hearing a great deal, it isn't just for me. I shoot on some private land that has neighbors within earshot. Quiet guns, like good fences, make for happy neighbors.

That being said... I'm changing my mind...
I just want something real quiet.

.22lr?

It is hard to have more fun at a range than with a suppressed .22.

22lr
December 24, 2008, 10:58 AM
Ya um its been said but dont put a can on something and then shoot someone. Good recipe for LAWSUIT that you will lose.

But ya I would almost kill for a 22lr with a can on the front (I said almost).

Best ones ive seen are the ruger models, with a AAC can. Great combo.

General Geoff
December 24, 2008, 11:05 AM
Good recipe for LAWSUIT that you will lose.

Only if your legal counsel is incompetant. A silencer is not, has never been, nor will it ever be proof of premeditated murder, despite what the movies insinuate.

waterhouse
December 24, 2008, 11:05 AM
Ya um its been said but dont put a can on something and then shoot someone. Good recipe for LAWSUIT that you will lose.

Based on what facts?

Mr_Rogers
December 24, 2008, 11:31 AM
One technicality on using suppressors for HD. The suppressor is generally registered TO YOU. If the little lady uses a suppressed firearm while you are away you will need to answer some pointed questions.

psyopspec
December 24, 2008, 11:42 AM
When I was in the market for a suppressor, I'd planned on getting one for my Beretta. I'd read that because the 92fs didn't rely on a tipping barrel to feed, the weight of the suppressor on the end was less likely to affect function.

22lr
December 24, 2008, 12:15 PM
LOL, come on guys.

You dont think a wet behind the ears lawyer isnt going to win a case of a guy getting shot with a silencer?

Guys im not going to argue with a brick wall but a modern day jury is going to have a hard time believing that you just happened to grab your favorite nightstand gun (a 9mm with a can shooting JHPs) that's just begging for trouble.

Maybe you could get away with it, but holy cow are you going to have a fight on your hands. This isnt about what you or me think, its about what someone will tell a jury.

But anyways Merry Christmas, and if you use a can in a SD manner then I hope you dont get nailed, but im just saying why risk it.:)

waterhouse
December 24, 2008, 12:38 PM
You dont think a wet behind the ears lawyer isnt going to win a case of a guy getting shot with a silencer?

I doubt there are too many lawyers who successfully argue that it is the fault of the homeowner that someone broke into their home. It may have been done, but I bet it is pretty rare. I doubt it has ever been successfully argued by a "wet behind the ears" lawyer.

Guys im not going to argue with a brick wall but a modern day jury is going to have a hard time believing that you just happened to grab your favorite nightstand gun

What do you propose they will believe? Either I grabbed my favorite nightstand gun to defend myself, and my favorite nightstand gun has a suppressor on it, OR I heard someone in my house, and I went upstairs to my safe, and I unlocked it, and then I screwed my suppressor onto a "non-nightstand gun", and then I used that one, because I had a crazy urge to play silent assassin in my home.

May there be more questions after a suppressor is used in a home defense situation? Probably. Will there be a "lawsuit that I will lose." I doubt it.


Merry Christmas to you as well :D

Trempel
December 24, 2008, 01:36 PM
How many here are practicing attorneys? Of those, how many are criminal defense lawyers that have any experience in representing a client that fired in self defense during a home invasion?

Mr_Rogers
December 24, 2008, 01:40 PM
I suppose the chances of anyone having to defend using a suppressed firearm in a home invasion is pretty remote but:

1. There is no law against using a suppressed firearm for SD if all other Federal and State laws are complied with.

2. Since the BG entered your property in an illegal manner it would be very difficult for the BG's attorney to prove any sort of malice aforethought.

3. Amongst other points, my attorney will ask why I should destroy my hearing because the BG chose to enter my home. How would I be able to call the police and ambulance services if my ears are ringing from firing shots indoors? Heck, I am helping the BG. How can he hear my instructions to surrender if his hearing is destroyed by my first shot? I am actually doing him a favor by using a suppressed firearm by allowing continued communication in an attempt to prevent further escalation.

4. My attorney will also point out that the basic ballistics of the firearm does not change simply by the addition of a suppressor.

Jim Watson
December 24, 2008, 02:03 PM
The problem is, if you shoot an assailant with a suppressed gun and the DA or a plaintiff's attorney seizes on that to try to make you look bad, YOU get to pay YOUR lawyer to explain all the points in 3 and 4 above.

Your enemies can punish you with legal costs even if they don't win. I would give them the fewest points to attack.

KBintheSLC
December 24, 2008, 02:29 PM
How many here are practicing attorneys? Of those, how many are criminal defense lawyers that have any experience in representing a client that fired in self defense during a home invasion?

In the legendary words of Cosmo Kramer... "I was almost a lawyer"

glock_17_4U
December 24, 2008, 02:29 PM
I would think hk would be the absolute best source for a gun that can handle a can,but they are pricey and all that im certain of is the .45s having barrels made for cans.

psyopspec
December 24, 2008, 03:27 PM
How many here are practicing attorneys? Of those, how many are criminal defense lawyers that have any experience in representing a client that fired in self defense during a home invasion?

Didn't claim to be, I just answered the OP's question. The legal ramifications of what he chooses to do are his issue to deal with, and only his.

Mr_Rogers
December 24, 2008, 04:27 PM
What is a firearm (auto-loading handgun) that I could get suppressed that would be effective for home defense?

Preferences:
Full size handgun.
9mm
Cheap
Long suppressor life

Requirements:
(relatively) Quiet
Reasonable cost

I'm open to suggestions.


Everything down to "Reasonable Cost" is easy. Once you own your selected 9mm pistol you are going to pay something like $650 for the suppressor then around $150 for a barrel or a custom threading job. Add to this the $200 suppressor registration fee. This all adds up to around $1000 and you could pay much more. Is it really worth $1000 to fancy up a cheap pistol that may be unreliable?

rcmodel
December 24, 2008, 04:30 PM
And will be impounded as evidence if you ever do use it in a SD shooting.

For how long?
Until they decide to give it back too you, thats when.

rcmodel

30mag
December 24, 2008, 05:23 PM
Seriously, everytime I post I get more legal advice...
I would appriciate some advice on a gun/suppressor combo. Especially one someone has had good experiences with it. Quiet is important.

If y'all are worried about me being held on trial, then you may take comort that I live in Texas.
Some of y'all may have heard this story...
http://kdka.com/national/Joe.Horn.burglars.2.761019.html

Anyways, advice on a pistol in .22lr that may be compatible with a suppressor... that would be good.

Javelin
December 24, 2008, 05:28 PM
HK

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would think hk would be the absolute best source for a gun that can handle a can,but they are pricey and all that im certain of is the .45s having barrels made for cans.

Hk is a great platform to suppress. But the .45 is an awful round to suppress due to its large bore diameter.

The HK USP Tactical in 9mm is a great way to go and they really do not cost that much ($800).


My thoughts on this lawsuit thing is this: it depends on your state. If you have castle law (such as Texas) it really does not matter if you shot the intruder with a cannon you will not even be brought down town for questioning. In some states if you shoot an intruder with anything you will be locked up due to manslaughter charges that will most likely be imposed upon you (yes unfortunately some states such as CA, NY, etc it is that sad).

I am just suggesting we keep things in perspective.
:)

WoofersInc
December 24, 2008, 05:42 PM
Anyways, advice on a pistol in .22lr that may be compatible with a suppressor... that would be good.

Alright back to the question:D There are several 22's that would fit the bill.
The Walther P-22 can easily be set up for a suppressor. The Sig Mosquito can be found with a threaded barrel. The Ruger 22 can either have the barrel threaded, or you can get an aftermarket upper such as the one from Tactical Solutions. Tactical Solutions also makes a threaded replacement barrel for the Browning Buckmark, Ruger 10-22 rifles and the Ruger Charger.
Most of the 22LR suppressors from the big manufacturers are pretty close to each other in performance. It will depend on if you want a suppressor that you can take apart for cleaning or a sealed unit. Most sealed units will have a very slight suppression advantage over take down units.

Best cost is currently the P-22 and either a Tac 65 or Gemtech Outback. I have seen the package for gun and suppressor for around $600 not including the tax stamp.

30mag
December 24, 2008, 05:43 PM
Sweet.

waterhouse
December 24, 2008, 06:15 PM
You can have most things threaded for a .22 can. As mentioned, Tactical Solutions makes barrels for the ruger and buckmarks. Keep in mind that the upper on the Ruger pistols is considered the firearm, so it would need to be transferred through a dealer. Here is one of their barrels on a Buckmark rifle:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/waterhouse/IMGP2765.jpg
The ones for the pistols look similar, but are shorter and are available in a variety of colors. They are also easy to install.

I had SRT thread my Buckmark pistol, they moved the sight back and did a great job on the threading. It came out cheaper than the Tac. Sols. barrel, but really I did it because the Tac. Sols. barrels are lightweight and I wanted to maintain some of the barrel weight on the pistol:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/waterhouse/IMGP2775.jpg

The can on both is a Tactical Innovations 65. It was relatively cheap and I've been really happy with it.

Guns like the Sig Mosquito and Walther p22 and one of the CZ 452s come pre threaded, but you may need an adapter.

kmrcstintn
December 24, 2008, 06:23 PM
me thinks the top 4 9mm semiautos that would have threaded barrels available for suppressors would be Glock, Beretta, Sig Sauer, and HK

Mr_Rogers
December 24, 2008, 06:53 PM
No topic on threaded barrels should go by without mentioning Tornado Technologies. These folks specialize in threading barrels and a simple job costs about $90 for superb work. Much cheaper than a new barrel. They can also carry out the Form 3 transfer for your silencer

If your barrel is not long enough for a thread to be cut directly Tornado Technology can make various adapters (I would expect at extra charge). This may be great if you want a special job done where threaded barrels are just not available. I am looking at getting an adapter put on a Beretta Couger because I like the idea of the rotating barrel rather than the "tip up" barrel with the extra weight attached.

Retro
December 24, 2008, 06:56 PM
First of all, the best caliber for sound suppression is .45 because the round is almost subsonic at 900 fps or so, and with subsonic .45 round, all you hear is the slide action and champaign bottle "pop", there is no sonic boom to worry about. There is a reason why SOCOM demanded a suppressible offensive handgun in .45 caliber that is accurate up to 100 yards.

Regular 9 mm cannot be fully suppressed because of the sonic boom, and if you use subsonic 9 mm, the ballistic is simple aweful because you have a small projectile going at less than 900 fps. Yes, Holywood shows a lot of suppressed beretta and glocks, but in reality, 9mm is not good for suppression.

The best platform for suppression is a fixed barrel setup like Walther ppk or makarov PM. The next best platform is HK SOCOM and HK USP tactical, which is designed to function flawlessly with SUBSONIC .45 rounds... If you use regular .45 loads, you will have stove-piping and failure to return to battery in a HK USP.

Also Jarvis will make a threaded bull barrel for 1911 series, which will take the Gemtech USP suppressor, and with subsonic .45 ammo, it also would function flawlessly. Subsonic ammo powder burns faster because of a larger primer hole, which allows a more powerful recoil thrust allowing the 1911 locking mechanism to disengage and eject and chamber next round. Slower burning regular ammo powder does not have such a strong recoil for reliable cycling.

- Retro

H2O MAN
December 24, 2008, 07:04 PM
I would love to have a can on my bed side G21 and I just may in the near
future. Until then, I guess the can on my bed side AR will have to suffice :)


I have a PSA sign posted prominently at every entrance to my home.

Welcome to my home: Evil doers will be shot dead with a suppressed fire arm.

WoofersInc
December 24, 2008, 07:21 PM
The next best platform is HK SOCOM and HK USP tactical, which is designed to function flawlessly with SUBSONIC .45 rounds... If you use regular .45 loads, you will have stove-piping and failure to return to battery in a HK USP.

Funny I use regular 45 in my HK Tactical all the time and it functions perfectly fine.:D Actually all 45 is subsonic out of a pistol. Good old Winchester White Box works great for playing at the range.

Retro
December 24, 2008, 07:45 PM
Yeah, Woof, you are right about all regular .45 rounds being subsonic... However, remington makes a "subsonic .45" FMJ ammo which has a larger primer hole for faster ignition of powder for more reliable cycling, but the actual speed is comparable to a regular .45 rd.

Mr_Rogers
December 24, 2008, 08:24 PM
Regular 9 mm cannot be fully suppressed because of the sonic boom, and if you use subsonic 9 mm, the ballistic is simple aweful because you have a small projectile going at less than 900 fps. Yes, Holywood shows a lot of suppressed beretta and glocks, but in reality, 9mm is not good for suppression.

This comment sells the 9mm short.
A 158grain 9mm bullet can be driven at 950 to 1000 fps which is still subsonic (Speed of sound under standard conditions is 1125 fps). The 230grain 45Auto bullet has difficulty reaching 900fps in a pistol length barrel. Energy of the 45Auto bullet is 412 foot pounds. The energy of the 9mm bullet is 350 foot pounds. The 45Auto wins but not by a margin that the recipient would classify as "awful" under SD conditions.

hounddog
December 26, 2008, 09:40 AM
I can only speak from what little experience I have from my two silencers. A 22 gemtech and 40 gemtech blackside.

The 22 is fun. Have shot it off of ruger 10/22, ruger charger, walther p22. My favorite gun with this silencer is a Savage mark II bull barrel. You can hear the firing pin hit, followed by the bullet hitting the target. With the semi auto's above, it is quiet, but the action cycling makes it no where near the bolt guns. I currently have a ruger 22/45 with a bull barrel at the shop getting threaded.

With my 40 can, It has recoil booster to make it function better with a pistol. I have used it a great deal on a Glock 22 with a threaded lone wolf barrel. Have had only one issue with it so far as reliability. After 300rds, glock got really crusty and had some failure to feed issues. Quick cleaning and ran fine. Also have used it with my mech tech carbine. With the carbine, you do get occasional supersonic flight with a "crack." Especially on cold morning range sessions. Will be trying it next on a Beretta storm carbine, once it gets threaded.

xx7grant7x
December 27, 2008, 12:10 AM
I was under the impression that a suppressor had to be secured in a locked storage container/room am i wrong in this fact?

Hawaiian
December 27, 2008, 12:35 AM
The items pictured below are legal to own in Oregon. HK USP9sd w/ AAC Evo 9 suppressor and a Sandshark auto knife. However I would not use either in a self defense situation. The suppresed gun and the out the front auto knife will be made to look like gang related killing weapons by the proscecutor. Never carry anything 'tacticool' for self defense. It will work against you in the eyes of the jury that does not think the same way you do.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/Hawaiianone/Guns/HK-Evo9-1.jpg

waterhouse
December 27, 2008, 09:58 AM
I was under the impression that a suppressor had to be secured in a locked storage container/room am i wrong in this fact?

Sort of. NFA weapons must be in the control of the registered owner. If the registered owner isn't around, they must be kept away from non registered owners, typically locked up in a safe. If the owner is present, they can be kept in any drawer or even hanging on the wall to display them.

Mike OTDP
December 27, 2008, 10:55 AM
OK, back to the OP....

If you are looking for a pistol for home defense, I'd go with a Beretta 92. Your choice of can, mine has an AWC Abraxas. The Berettas will cycle reliably without fancy inertia devices.

I would not worry about legal entanglements...your rationale is that you are concerned for your hearing. This goes triple if you are shooting an AR...the noise will do permanent damage. You are under no legal obligation to inflict permanent disability on yourself while defending your home.

Now, if you want a .22 to suppress, just for fun...that is another matter. If you have a particular preference, go straight to that. You'll do it eventually, save money and get what you want. BTDT.

A lot of people will try to get you into a Walther P22 or a Sig Mosquito. I would buy neither. The quality just is not there. I'd be looking for a Walther PP or PPK/S in .22, or a Beretta 70 or 87. Get the barrel threaded. Or a Ciener upper with a threaded barrel.

icebones
December 27, 2008, 02:36 PM
if you want something quiet to target practice with get a 10/22 and order a threadded bbl.
i know the one i have. i put a fajen stock, trigger, simmons 3-9x40mm scope and a heavy bull bbl. Its about as sweet as they come. And after i got the tax stamp and all the paperwork for the suppressor and bought a brick of subsonic .22 from wally world.

it had me giggiling like a little school girl because it was so quiet. you could actually hear the bolt cyciling and closing. the actual bullet impact made more noise than firing.:cool:

30mag
January 4, 2009, 12:17 AM
Sounds fun...
I want to put a silencer on something I could use though. Not just a .22.

moooose102
January 4, 2009, 10:59 AM
i, for one, would love to have that set up for my home defense. but gustopo michigan wont let anyone have a supressor at all, unless of course you have mega$ and have a special license. for average joe, in his own home, you will simply have to blow your, and your loved ones ear drums out to defend yourself. isnt that nice?!? thank you state legislaters with your infinate wisdom.

Calhoun321
January 4, 2009, 12:15 PM
Steping back to the legal issues. I would remind folks that self defense isn't always a cut and dried issue in the court room - even in ones home. Unless you have witnesses that someone broke into your home, with a weapon, threatened to use it, and actually used it before you used yours; their will be variables that can cast you in a bad light. For example, someone breaks in and your state requires that you retreat (no castle doctrine), yet you used a weapon that is easily cast as offensive - - could spell trouble. After the low light shooting did the perp really have a gun/knife? What if they turned as your bullet left the barrel? If so, you have now shot someone in the back with a silenced weapon. Explain that to an anti-gun jury.

I like the idea of a silencer on a HD weapon, but I think I like the idea of a subsonic pistol round alone a little better due to legal issues. One conflict without hearing protection will not deafen everyone in the home unless the gun is next to their ear when fired.

I'm really not saying pro or con, just adding to things to consider.

Javelin
January 4, 2009, 02:42 PM
Regular 9 mm cannot be fully suppressed because of the sonic boom, and if you use subsonic 9 mm, the ballistic is simple aweful because you have a small projectile going at less than 900 fps. Yes, Holywood shows a lot of suppressed beretta and glocks, but in reality, 9mm is not good for suppression.

Totally do not agree with this statement.

I personally found the 9mm to be the absolutely best round to suppress as it gives the best size to suppression ratio in my humble opinion shooting with my Trident-9 suppressor (122db which is as quiet as your standard air rifle).

The 9mm will remain subsonic with bullets 145gr for most barrels at most elevations and temperature and 147gr with all barrels. And furthermore, a 9mm 147gr JPH at ~1020fps is nothing to snuff at and arguably has better material penetration than a standard 115gr bullet due to weight as the 115gr has a tendancy to fragment/break apart even on glass.

Again, I own many suppressors but I don't use them for HD (I have a G23 for that and should I need to shoot it in my living room I won't be hearing much for a few days). But to each their own.

:)

30mag
January 5, 2009, 02:59 PM
I live in Texas, as I have already said.
And I don't want legal advice.

9mmepiphany
January 6, 2009, 01:07 AM
if i could own one, i'd use it as my nightstand gun too...remember that you passed numberous background checks before being issued a permit for that suppressor. that's says more to you charactor than most folks can document.

they make suppressors for alot of guns, but i've got to admit the HK's are the coolest

one's i've handled:

Mk 23 - .45 USP designed for suppressor (by Knight) use
MP5-SD - 9mm with intergral suppressor
P7M8 - fixed barrel and gas delayed action makes it both accurate and reliable

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