I'm now reluctant to loan out guns... to say the least.


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jsalcedo
September 24, 2003, 01:11 AM
I'm usually generous with my possessions

I've loaned money, my car, lawnmower and a couple of occasions one of my guns.

No more.

The first one was a .45 cal percussion pistol that I enjoyed shooting from time to time. The friend I lent it to was instructed that 30 grains of fff
was the maximum charge.

The guy, who was my best friend at the time had a irresponsible crazy streak and he began upping the powder charge all the way to 100 grains
according to his brother.

When I got the gun back part of the hammer was missing the nipple was
long gone (probably disintigrated against the hammer) and it was filthy.

Never again. I just gave the percussion pistol to my friends brother as a wall hanger.

Next one was my ruger MKII. My dad had bought it for me when I was a kid. My dad calls me up and asks if his friend ( a guy he met recently could borrow it to see if it was worth buying.

Alarm bells went off immediately so I hesitated and stalled, turned out the guy had a history of mental illness and ended up commitiing suicide with someone elses gun.

I let my nephew use my SKS for an afternoon (he had turned 18 recently)

When he brought it back it turns out he had been bumping the muzzle on the concrete as he walked like the gun was some kind of frigging walking stick! The crown was severely bent up and gouged and my nephew just shrugged his shoulders like (whats the big deal?).

Never again. My guns are meant to be cared for and passed down to my son (who appreciates them as much as I do)

They are not walking sticks, PSI proof testers or suicide weapons. It just pisses me off to no end when people take the simplest responsibility for granted. /rant off/

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Devonai
September 24, 2003, 01:23 AM
I'm sorry you have had such bad luck.

I'm borrowing my buddy's HK91. He wouldn't have loaned it to me if he didn't trust me, so you can bet I'd never risk betraying that trust by mistreating the weapon. Whether it be an expensive pre-ban rifle or a $50 .22 revolver, I always treat loaned firearms as if they were my own.

I used to have a roommate who had a CCW, but no pistol, and was hired for some alarm response work. I loaned him my Beretta 96, but not without hesistation. When I got it back, it was in perfect condition. We trusted each other, hence the loan, but the hesitation I had was that he would abuse it by accident, not on purpose. Soon he got his own pistol but our friendship was all the stronger for the experience.

LiquidTension
September 24, 2003, 01:41 AM
The only person I can think of that I loan my guns to is my brother, and then only when he's going to the range. It's not because I don't trust other family members/friends, but because if something happens to one of my weapons I want it to be my fault instead of someone else's. Is that strange?

MAKOwner
September 24, 2003, 03:02 AM
I wouldn't WANT to borrow anyone elses guns (or car, etc) unless my life depended on it for fear that I might mess whatever it is up. I don't like using stuff that isn't mine, and I don't like people using stuff that is mine...

Ian11
September 24, 2003, 03:18 AM
I have no problems letting other people shoot my guns but I have to be present. Esp. if they don't know how I want my guns to be treated. Guns are VERY VERY PERSONAL. EVERY OTHER WORLDLY POSSESSION I HAVE my dear family and friends are welcome to borrow or use..........*

But not weapons. Your weapon is your life. Your weapon is your friend. Your weapon is what's going to save you. You should always know where it is and what it is doing at all times. (Besides the potential legal issues) Your mentality should be like a soldier to his rifle or sword. And this bond should be stronger than a woman and her diamonds or a teenage kid to his car. **

Don't get me wrong this isn't about "materialism" but the right attitude one should have if you choose to own a gun for self defense.


*Of course it helps to choose your friends wisely.
*And of course there is that one exception that if my family or friend are in imminent danger they are welcome to one of my weapons if they so choose.

FireInTheHole
September 24, 2003, 03:22 AM
Nobody handles my guns outside of my presence.

I dont lend my truck out either.

Behavior along these lines is irresponsible IMO.

Chugach
September 24, 2003, 04:09 AM
Sorry to hear about your percussion pistol and the SKS.

I have friends and relatives that I would not hesitate to loan any tool, vehicle, or firearm. That's the short list.

The somewhat longer list hears these words: "You break it, you buy it!"

I've had to enforce that rule a few times. Funny, they didn't ask to borrow anything again, and I didn't offer...

jsalcedo
September 24, 2003, 04:10 AM
Nobody handles my guns outside of my presence

Thanks. That is my new motto from here on out.

swingset
September 24, 2003, 04:15 AM
Toothbrush
Wife
Guns


None of these are for sharing.

Pendragon
September 24, 2003, 04:40 AM
Sorry to hear of your bad luck.

I dont mind letting people shoot my guns at a range when I am right there - but you have to wonder, why does someone need to borrow a gun for a longer stretch?

Anyone worth trusting with a gun probably already has one (many).

Fact is, most folks just dont take good care of stuf that aint theirs. But when you get the gun for yourself, you treasure it and treat it right.

I only own 2 guns right now. My Valtro was extremely painful to purchase and very difficult to find. My .22 rifle was owned by my Great Grand Father and when I give it to my son, he will be the 5th generation to own it.

I cannot fathom letting them out of my sight.

semf
September 24, 2003, 09:40 AM
I have been asked many times. My answer is I'll let you borrow my underwear before I'll loan out my guns. That should let them know how personal my guns are.

foghornl
September 24, 2003, 10:22 AM
One person on my list...my Sis-in-law. For all others, short answer is no. Long answer is you can borrow my toothbrush & "bloomers" first. :p

Baba Louie
September 24, 2003, 10:47 AM
Loan out guns? A deadly weapon that belongs to me out of my sight?

Not gonna happen.

Son or daughter if need be... change that. I've given them theirs so they have no need to borrow one of mine.

If a friend doesn't have a firearm of his/her own, I'll be glad to take them out shooting and let them try out various makes, models, calibers and assist them with advice for their own purchase... but... see first line above

Adios

AJ Dual
September 24, 2003, 11:12 AM
Most anyone who'd want to borrow a gun from me already has plenty, so they wouldn't ask...

But once about three years ago, I got an e-mail out of the blue from an old friend/roommate I hadn't heard from in about two years prior to that.

He asked if he could borrow one of my handguns. :scrutiny: Needless to say, I declined.

He was somewhat flighty womanizer when we roomed together, being exposed to my gun collection, he caught the "gun bug" for about a month, and on my reccomendation, bought himself a Ruger 10/22 as his first gun. We went to a local indoor range a few times, but he needed glasses, but was to vain to wear them, other than the safety glasses I demanded he wear.

He managed to shoot the target carrier clip holding his target, dropping it three times. :rolleyes: I didn't push going shooting after that.

I declined to lend him a gun, and upon further e-mailing, I found out part of the story. He wanted to borrow a handgun to take out of state so he could attend a gun safety class at a gun store in neighboring Illinois. :scrutiny:

With further prodding the rest of the story came out. He wanted to attend the first availible gun safety class he could find before his court date to try and impress a judge. It turns out when he was sleepless he liked to clean his 10/22 for "something to do". So at 3 a.m. he goes to his closet gets his 10/22 out, and sits back down next to his sleeping live-in girfriend to clean the rifle. Of course he'd left it loaded, and wound up squeezing off a round into the cieling....

Where his live-in girlfriend's three children were sleeping in thier bedrooms upstairs. :eek:

The first round scared him so badly, that he wound up bump-firing two more rounds into the cieling as well. Girlfriend was extremely unhappy, but forgave him. Kids woke up, but were unhurt, thank God.

Girlfriend's ex-hubby found out the story from the kids a few weeks later, and already rather nonplussed that his ex and kids were living with footloose and fancy-free boyfriend, called CPS, the DA's office, and the cops.

He wound up being pulled in for "Reckless Endgangerment of Children", and somehow thought that taking a gun safety course would mollify the court.

I knew there was a reason I hadn't kept in touch with that guy...

Daniel T
September 24, 2003, 11:22 AM
There are a few, very few people that I would let borrow a gun. My parents. My two best friends (who don't have wild streaks). That's it. Not even my girlfirend, until she gets more used to handling them.

As for the nephew...I would have laid the smacketh down on his candy-???. Seriously. Good god, what a shmuck.

Skunkabilly
September 24, 2003, 11:25 AM
Thankfully no one has asked me.

But they usually call me in to mop up the mess "SKUNKY CLEEAAAAAARRR!!" :D

MikeJ
September 24, 2003, 11:27 AM
I would never loan a gun to anybody. The stress I would experience while it was out of my possession just simply isn't worth it.:D

10-Ring
September 24, 2003, 11:41 AM
I will only let someone use one of my guns if I'm there to keep a watchful eye on what's going on.

Ala Dan
September 24, 2003, 12:10 PM
Well, maybe I'm a little too old fashioned; but I NEVER
loan firearms; nor do I EVER ask to borrow anybody
else's firearms. End of the story !:uhoh: :(

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Mike Irwin
September 24, 2003, 12:16 PM
I'll loan my guns to people whose capabilities and responsibilities are well known to me over a period of years.

They also know the consequences if they damage one of my guns through neglect.

A friend of mine borrowed a rifle years ago to go hunting. He ended up falling crossing a stream. He buggered up his knee and my gun. I wasn't upset, because it was an accident, he was contrite and embarassed, and he offered to pay for the repairs (which I refused. Added character!).

Bigjake
September 24, 2003, 01:13 PM
i'm a stingy person myself. my dad volunteered a couple of our .22's out to some distant relations that had never been shooting. I still hold a huge grudge agaist those that beat the hell out of my 10/22 (a gift to me from my father when i was 12) and the same :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: that droped my little 94 repeatedly. they'll be reporting 5 foot snowdrifts in hell before any of my guns are used outside of my sight again.

mtnbkr
September 24, 2003, 01:36 PM
Like Mike, I'll loan guns to people I know very well and know to be responsible with other people's stuff.

Among the group I hunt with, it's common practice to share guns for hunting while at camp. I've offered my guns to others and had guns offered to me. It's just a good way to try something different in anticipation of a purchase or for the sheer novelty of it. Of course, most of our group have known each other for over a decade (I'm the newcomer) and we're all gun nuts.

Chris

Tamara
September 24, 2003, 01:40 PM
I solve the problem by not having friends I wouldn't trust with stuff.

If you can't trust them with your money, your car or your gun, how could you ever trust them with your life? :uhoh:

Engineer
September 24, 2003, 02:00 PM
The list of friends that I will loan my guns to is quite short (only one person). In addition to the responsibility factor, I've found that very few people appreciate the value of a firearm and the care that must be taken with them.

Along the same lines of not lending out guns, instruments are another possession that I will rarely lend out. I've had plenty of friends ask to borrow a guitar from me so they can go to jam sessions. I used to be very willing, but after lending out a Martin and getting it back with many gouge marks in it from heavy-handed picking, I've since changed my position. Very few people realize that acoustic guitars can run into the thousands of dollars in cost and are quite fragile.

ddc
September 24, 2003, 02:27 PM
The only person I would probably lend a gun to would have been my father who is the person who taught me to shoot. His guns were well used but well maintained as well as well respected and I assume he would treat mine the same if he were still around.

Having said that although there are people I would trust with one of my guns from a safety perspective the fact is that nobody is going to treat your stuff, whether it be a gun or a bicycle, the same way you do.

Case in point: I have some really nice bikes and I have a mountain bike that I can put the seat low enough so that my wife can ride. Do I trust her with the bike from a safety perspective? Yes. Do I trust that she can use it and not get her self killed? Yes. Do I trust that she will treat it with a certain level of respect because it doesn't belong to her? Yes.

However on the two occasions that I have let her use it I can see her treating it in a way that I never would. She isn't doing anything really wrong from her perspective; e.g. perhaps just leaning the top tube against the corner of a building, (oops; now there is a little scar on the top tube), that's what she has probably done a hundred times with her bikes. But I would never have done that. Now is it worth getting into the "honey, maybe you could do it this way" discussion? Well, that is for me to decide and not a topic for this thread but the bottom line is that she won't be handling any of my guns unless I am right there at her elbow. ;)

TheOtherOne
September 24, 2003, 06:17 PM
Just turned a friend down today. He wanted to borrow my shotgun to go shoot clays.

He's the type that would have thrown it in the back of a truck and hoped for the best. I'm the type who is extra careful not to breath on it wrong and it's not even a nice one! It's just a cheap mossberg maverick with lots of plastic, but I would still be pissed if it came back with scratches.

You get to be branded as being selfish, but I don't care. Some people say life isn't worth living if you can't share it... but I say it's not worth living if you share it and all people do is muck it up!

Like others have said, I've got no problem with people shooting my guns when I'm there but I couldn't stand loaning them out. I know all I would do the whole time it's gone is worry about what kind of condition it'll come back in.

Blain
September 24, 2003, 06:22 PM
You should have asked your nephew how he would like it if you borrowed his new car and dented/banged it up? What's the big deal then? Bet he'd understand your concerns at that point.

Chris Rhines
September 24, 2003, 08:13 PM
I very rarely lend anything, and guns are right out.
There are a few people, close friends and family, who I would give a gun as a gift. I'd prefer to do that.

- Chris

gulogulo1970
September 24, 2003, 08:57 PM
Well, I will loan out guns to family and I can think of 2 friends I would trust with some of my guns. I recently bought a gun to be used as a tackle box gun/loaner. Its a Colt Police Positive I had hard chromed. I won't worry about it and if I can do some good by helping a family member out I will.

Case in point, I have a friend who was wronged by a business he worked for. So, he turned them in to the IRS. These people were a little rough. He became afraid they might try to hurt him or his family. I don't know if this was a real or imagined fear. But he was afraid, and had no money to buy a gun. I loaned him one until he found work and moved. I felt good to help a freind protect himself. I will do this for any rational family member that feels the need to protect themselves but lacks the funds to do it themselves.

I always take them shooting before I loan them a gun. I've loaned my Mom one friend and my sister guns. My mom and friend bought their own after a while. My sister is still taking her chances in this world. Some people have different priorities, I guess. If something in my gut gave me any reservations I would not do it. I wouldn't want a murder or a suicide on my mind for the rest of my life.

It all comes down to who you really trust with your property and a tool that can kill. If you have doubts with either don't do it.

cool45auto
September 24, 2003, 09:10 PM
I've borrowed guns from my brother and father and that's probably the only two I'd lend some to.

Standing Wolf
September 24, 2003, 10:45 PM
I've gladly lent newbies assorted guns to try out, but only under my direct supervision. If I run into someone at a range who'd like to shoot one of my guns, and the person seems level-headed, I'm glad to give him or her an opportunity, but again, only under my direct supervision.

Kamicosmos
September 24, 2003, 11:17 PM
I'd loan to my dad, or either one of my grandfathers if they were still alive.

As far as friends go, I'd only loan to one, but he has his own extensive collection and we shoot together all the time, so loaning has never come up.

Most everyone I know knows that I have guns. *Neo Voice 'Lots of Guns.' end Neo Voice* But only a few have even been allowed to see them.

JohnKSa
September 24, 2003, 11:41 PM
I never lend anything I wouldn't give away.

So, when I lend, I consider it a gift.

Even if I had a gun I wouldn't mind giving away, it is VERY unlikely I would lend it to someone unless they agreed to take a Basic Firearm Safety course. (Which I would provide for free if they agreed.)

Neal Bloom
September 24, 2003, 11:43 PM
The only time a gun is out of my possesion is when I hand it to a friend at the range so they can shoot it. To loan a gun to someone without me being around goes against my grain. All of my firends know this and no one asks, nor do I ask them.

Preacherman
September 25, 2003, 12:29 AM
Tamara said it for me:
I solve the problem by not having friends I wouldn't trust with stuff.

If you can't trust them with your money, your car or your gun, how could you ever trust them with your life?
I'll lend my guns (and other things) freely to the good friends whom I trust. Admittedly, there aren't many of them (as opposed to a multitude of acquaintances), but friends are friends, and I trust them. If they're not trustworthy, they soon cease to be even acquaintances...

Hot brass
September 25, 2003, 12:39 AM
I do not loan or borrow anyones guns. If someone who does not own a gun wants go shooting I will take them out to shoot a gun or two. Yes guns are tools and tools can be replaced. Here in California it is illegal to lend or be in posession of anothers fire arm unless that individual is with you. This will cause you to loose your gun PRIVILLAGE in California. Guns, are not to be borrowed. I got a call one day from my sister to come over right now, and bring a gun, she and her husband were arguing, NOT!!!
Other sister called to borrow a gun, she was going to blow her husbands head off, :banghead: no I don`t loan guns. When I loan a tool I always make it clear " If you break it, bring me a NEW one". If I borrow someones tool I tell them if it breaks I will replace it with a NEW one. Only one neighbor borrows my tools:D , I like it this way.

pingwax
September 25, 2003, 12:45 AM
The handgun safety instructor that I had told an amusing story about sharing guns.

One day, at the range we were at, a guy came in. He was meeting some friends there in about an hour to do some shooting. He didn't have a lot of shooting experience and since he was able to get there so early, he had planned to warm up a bit. To that end, the friend that was meeting him loaned him his Glock.

He bought a few boxes of ammunition and after they showed him how to use the lane equipment he got started.

After about half an hour, he came back out to the counter to ask a question. The gun just would not load the bullets properly. He had to rack the slide for every shot.

The guy at the counter obviously thought that was odd and went back to help him take a look at the gun. Unfortunately; it only took about 3 seconds to identify the problem.

The guy had bought 9mm ammunition, but his friend had loaned him a .40 caliber pistol.

He had managed to shoot a box and half, one bullet at a time, down the barrel and each one of those bullets and sort of bounced and wobbled their way through it. Needless to say, it was ruined.

The instructor never mentioned how the guy's friend took it.

cliffdropover1
September 25, 2003, 01:01 AM
Here is one that you may not have thought of. I know a guy that has had an emergency protection order placed on him pending a domestic violence charge. He came to the local shoot asking if he could borrow a gun to shoot in the contest. If someone loans him a gun, they could be asking for trouble, especially if they KNOW he has had his guns taken away and isn't allowed to even touch a gun. He was putting the other guys in jeopardy and didn't even care, just as long as he got to shoot too. I don't want to argue the law here. I am just giving an example of how loaning out a gun is NOT a good idea.

Hardtarget
September 26, 2003, 12:20 AM
I do not like to loan out guns but I do have three that are relegated to that use only. I don't use them at all...they are loaners. That said, I do not borrow firearms anymore, either...for this reason- -I had never shot a quality O/U shotgun so my friend loaned me his for a weekend. I took it back in perfect order...no dings, no scratches, clean. Then I found out it was a $2,500 gun. Almost wet my pants. I had spent that Saturday afternoon standing in a pig lot shooting starlings. Slipping around in pig mud to my ankles. Nope...don't borrow guns anymore. ;)
Mark.

Don Galt
September 26, 2003, 10:16 AM
I think I agree.

But, do all of you extend this same policy to your wife/partner/girlfriend?

Do you have his and her firearms, or do you have "ours" firearms?

I'm a newbie still learning about firearms, so I don't really have experience to report here, just curious.

ddc
September 26, 2003, 12:23 PM
My wife has owned guns in the past but does not currently own one.

However it won't be long before she does and at that point it will be hers and hers alone.

Just like I consider my guns to be mine alone.

There would be no "our" guns that belonged to both of us.

This is partly because as noted earlier I want my guns treated the way I want them to be treated and the only person who is going to do exactly that is me. If she owned a gun I would be more than happy to give her advice ;) on it but it would be her responsibility.

She would be welcome to shoot mine as long as I was right there and I wouldn't be offended if she felt the same way about hers.

In addition to the above which is as much a personal quirk as anything the whole concept of responsibility and accountability figures into this also I think. A gun is just to dangerous a tool to be managed by a committee even if the committee only has two members. Some one individual needs to be in charge of it.

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