[MCM]

Can anyone supply me with any pros & cons about shooting hardcast in my old Colt AGENT.

[1911Tuner]

Barrel leading if the bullets are too hard...which commercially cast bullets tend tyo be...or too small...which commercially cast bullets often are, or the bore is worn oversized or rough.

[MMCSRET]

As 1911Tuner sez: hard cast will promote leading especially if the bullet has a bevel base, other than that lead bullets extend barrel life due to a lower friction coefficient. Find lead bullets that are softer, I've had good luck with the Hornady swaged bullets of the knurled and dry lubed design for most loads under 1000 FPS in 32, 38 and 44 calibers. I keep a few on hand in case I get behind in casting.

[earplug]

My experience has been hard cast bullets of .357-.358 work fine for S&W revolvers.
I used to cast wheel weights for 150-158 grain bullets. Had little of no leading.
My three Pythons had .356-357 barrels and they leaded with my normal loads.
Soft, light loads such as target WBWC were ok. I suspect your Colt will react the same way. Slug your barrel if you want to buy cast bullets.

[rcmodel]

Wheelweight bullets are not really considered hard-cast.

If the OP is talking about the real deal, he is talking Linotype or near that in hardness.

At any rate, they will be too hard to slug up and seal the cylinder throats unless driven to true Magnum pressure & velocity.
A Colt Agent isn't gonna do it!

That being the case, gas cutting on the base will probably cause leading at lower pressure with true "hard-cast" bullets.

rcmodel

[1911Tuner]

.38 Special...I used to cast wheel weights for 150-158 grain bullets. Had little or no leading...
My three Pythons had .356-357 barrels and they leaded with my normal loads.

Too hard! Too hard! Lube maybe too hard, too.

I cut 18 pounds of wheelweight metal with a pound of pure lead and add a half-pound of tin. 160-grain .357s pushed by 14.5 grains 2400 produces zero leading beyond a light wash that I can remove with a couple passes of a dry .40-caliber brush. Velocities are in the 1350 fps range from a 6-inch barrel, and around 1275 from a 4-inch. Accurate out to a hundred yards without excessive muzzle blast and concussion.

Disclaimer:

Though it has been safe in every revolver I've used it in...the data listed above is at or near maximum. Back off 1.5 grains and work upward in .2 grain increments.

Stick-on weights are nearly pure, soft lead. Some have a tiny bit of tin. Use a pair of sidecutters to make sure the weights are lead and not zinc or some other mystery metal.

[earplug]

I have been shooting bullseye and steel competition for the past two seasons with commercial cast bullets from Grandmasters bullets in Canon city CO. Advertised as hard cast.
I use a very light load of 3.6 grains of Bullseye pushing a .452 180 grain SWC with a bevel base. I shoot this load out of four guns.
I load and shoot a 158 grain LSWC sized to .358 using 4 grains of WW231. I don't get enough leading to brush the bore after 60-100 rounds.
I have used various loads with commercial cast bullets to make Major Power factor for USPSA shooting. Most did not lead. I had more problems with lube fouling the barrel cylinder gap and building up in the cylinder, making reloading difficult.
Back in the mid 1970's I cast and shot lead bullets for 38, .357, 44 Rem Mag, 45 ACP. When I was casting my own, I used wheel weights and range scrap, leading was not a issue, except for the Pythons I owned.
I have shot softer swaged bullets most in .358 HBWC loaded with 3 grains of WW231 in 38 cases, Hornady, and Zero. All deposited more lead then the cast wheel weights I have used. They don't lead enough to worry about for my needs.

[1911Tuner]

Most commercial alloy is either Taracorp Magnum...a near equivalent to the old Taracorp #4 or Taracorp "Hardball" alloy. Magnum is 2% tin and 6% antimony. Hardball is 2% and 8% if memory serves me correctly.

Both are too hard for most pistol applications, and commercially cast bullets use a hard lube. This is mainly done to prevent damage to the bulk-packed bullets and loss of lube from the grooves while in transit.

If the metal is too hard to allow good obturation, gas cutting past the sides of the bullet will lead the bore...sometimes badly. The above-named alloys make for an excellent solder, and solder flat sticks to porous surfaces. Wheelweight metal averages 4-4.5% antimony and 1/2 to 3/4% tin. I like 94/3/3 for almost everything. If I need harder metal, I can always water quench or heat-treat, depending on how round and close to size the bullet falls from the mould.

Matching the bullet hardness to the intended pressure range works much better than just having blind faith in commercial casters' bullets. Back when I could get Taracorp #4 on the cheap, I'd cut it 80/20 alloy to pure lead, and add enough tin to bring it up to about 3%. Made beautiful bullets that were dead nuts consistent in size and weight.

Rule of thumb:

If leading occurs at the rear of the bore, the alloy is too hard or the bullet is undersized...or the bore is oversized. If it occurs near the muzzle, the bullet is running out of lube. Hard lube makes both problems worse.

[1911Tuner]

other than that lead bullets extend barrel life due to a lower friction coefficient.

Well...As it turns out...the lower friction isn't the true reason that lead bullets don't wear barrels out nearly as fast as jacketed bullets.

The gritty ash and powder residue left by the previous round imbeds into the lead when the next round is fired instead of being ground into the bore by the harder cupro-nickel jacket. The revelation came about after it was noticed that...in guns that had been fired almost exclusively with jacketed bullets...the rifling was worn nearly smooth in the first inch or two, but from there to the muzzle, the rifling was still in good shape. There was a lot of velocity loss, but accuracy wasn't too far off the mark.

Barrels that had only seen lead bullets were not only worn to a far lesser degree...but the wear was uniform from leade to muzzle. Seems that the grit was taking longer to imbed into the bullet jacket, while the lead took it right away, keeping it away from the bore.

The lower coefficient of friction from a lead bullet doesn't stress revolver topstraps as badly as jacketed bullets loaded to the same pressures, and lead bullets of identical weight also generally produce higher velocities with a given powder charge...or identical velocities with a lower charge and pressure. A third benefit of lead bullets is that they offer a little protection to the forcing cones from the hot gasses...likely due to a combination of vaporized lead and bullet lube coating the metal.

If anyone remembers leaded gasoline, and how the sudden switch to unleaded produced a lot of burnt exhaust valves before the automakers revamped the metallurgy to compensate...you'll understand the protective properties of lead in the super heated environment of a cartridge firing in a gun.

[funnelcake]

Good Grief Tuner. I've learned a ton (and had a few chuckles) from reading at least several hundred of your posts on various forums trouble-shooting JMB's 1911 & unfortunate variants and here you go spewing the gospel on loading with lead; those last two posts are great stuff. Anything you DON'T know about those things that go bang?

Merry Christmas...Funnel

[1911Tuner]

Good Grief

Grief is right. I started castin' boolits in the mid 60s because I was breakin' the ol' man up buyin' .38 Special ammo for the Smith M&P .38 he bought for me...for about 25 dollars. Ammo for it was a whole 2 bucks for a box of 50. He made a single cavity mould and a hand-operated sizer die. Lube was also homemade...melted in a pan...and bullets retrieved ala cookie-cutter method, also accomplished with a homemade tool.

Them was the good ol' days...NOT!

:D

[MADDOG]

I am kinda new to this. I am thinking about buying some Oregon Trail laser cast bullets in 158gr. 38 and 200 gr. 45. Mostly for target shooting. They advertise they are hard and you have no leading. What about the Oregon Trail bullets?

[1911Tuner]

Maddog...If you mean their Laser Cast line, yes. They're beautiful bullets and they're very hard. I don't know the alloy, but probably something between Magnum and Hardball alloy.

They also make a point of stating that they have a small silver content...but that's a hook. All lead has a little silver in it and all silver has a little lead in it. The two metals occur together naturally. Where there's lead...there's silver.

Laser Cast bullets are high quality, and very consistent in size and weight. They're also very expensive, as cast lead bullets go.
I suspect that this is because they're cast at a slower rate in order to better control mould and metal temperatures. Lower production naturally raises the price.

[Redhawk1]

I only shoot hard cast bullets in my handgun, 38 special up to 500 Mag. I get very little to no leading. Here is a good rule on shooting hard cast bullets.
Plain based up to 1000 fps
Gas checked over 1000 fps and up to 1600-1800 fps
(BHN) 15 to 22
I have been shooting handguns for over 30 years and know what works well in my guns.
I now get all my hard cast bullets from Montana Bullet works.

[S&Wfan]

Back to the old Colt Agents . . .

These are pretty "fragile" revolvers by any standards. Shoot only moderate velocity .38 Special rounds in 'em to avoid stretching the frames and ruining the revolver.

Lead bullets will be best too in that old Agent, IMHO!

T.

1911Tuner . . . great info!

[SILVER-STAR]

I'm impressed with the expertise available on cast bullets but I'm curious as to why some barrel leading is treated like a case of rabies.
I've been casting and loading lead bullets for a lot of years.
I shoot .357 and .44 mag revolvers and have shot 10's of thousands
of rounds through (say it ain't so) Glocks in 9MM, .40 S&W and .45 ACP.
My cast bullets are in the 18-19 BHN range, which are fairly hard and I do
get some leading after a few hundred rounds. I go home brush it out and get ready for the next range session. I've worn out recoil springs but no barrels and I've saved a ton over jacketed bullets.
Am I missing something here?

[Waldo Pepper]

Nope, unless you find a source of JHP for 8 cents a round like I did. Should make my 10 mm lot more fun with some really hot 180 gr loads. :D

[Friendly, Don't Fire!]

I ordered various bullets (loaded ammo) from Midway.

There was a 440 grain hard cast flat point that was so powerful, I thought my wrists were going to break. They were so powerful, they were absolutely ridiculous. If I remember correctly, they may have been Cor-Bon.

I suppose if a lion or tiger was about to pounce they would be fine, but for anything up in these north woods, forget those!

I shot a 14" diameter tree and those bullets went right through! I was able to retrieve one of the slugs and it was so intact, I know I could have reloaded it and shot it again! No deformation whatsoever!

Incredible!

[Waldo Pepper]

Sounds like a grizzly load. That would be what you need for one.

[Friendly, Don't Fire!]

Yeah, I didn't think of that -- not having them here in the east.