A Few AK questions?


PDA






kuntreeboy80
December 24, 2008, 11:54 PM
I'm sure someone has already asked these questions but I am unable to find the exact answers I'm looking for so I will ask them all at once. First I have a friend (and I do mean a friend it's not me) who recently purchased an Ak with another "Parts" AK that has a questionable past. The "parts" AK is only a lower receiver and a barrel with some if not most of the guts left in it. My question is with the "Parts" left in it how can you tell if someone has attempted to make a full auto and would it be possible to convert it back to a regular semi?

If you enjoyed reading about "A Few AK questions?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
nalioth
December 25, 2008, 12:37 AM
Take all the pieces out of the receiver and count the holes in the sides (not the bottom).

If you count 8, you've got trouble.

kuntreeboy80
December 25, 2008, 12:50 AM
Naliothyou are a big help on both of my questions if there are that many holes can it be fixed to be normal again or is it scrap?

nalioth
December 25, 2008, 01:02 AM
Naliothyou are a big help on both of my questions if there are that many holes can it be fixed to be normal again or is it scrap? If there are 8 holes, it's a ticket for 10 years minimum in Club Fed and a big fine. I'll let you make your own decisions from there.

2RCO
December 25, 2008, 01:32 AM
If it has 8 holes and no paperwork---yeah it can be fixed by destroying it very promptly. I suggest a date with that receiver and an Oxy Acetylene torch. From what I've heard jail isn't real fun.

kuntreeboy80
December 25, 2008, 01:41 AM
Well definitely not what I wanted to hear was hoping to be able to spare it, talk him out of it and build me a rifle. Can the barrel be saved or are the barrels and lowers solid?

2RCO
December 25, 2008, 01:45 AM
Yes the barrel can be saved.

kuntreeboy80
December 25, 2008, 01:50 AM
Alright well looks like I will salvage what I can from it and have him destroy the rest better safe then sorry! I dont need anyone that works for a three letter agency breathing down my neck or a larger man than I in prison doing it either!

RP88
December 25, 2008, 11:28 AM
you can save everything but the receiver, if that makes you feel better. The receiver is the only part that is considered a gun by (current) ATF regulations. Salvage what you can, then destroy the receiver.

wyocarp
December 25, 2008, 11:33 AM
Well, I'm wondering (since I've never seen a hole that couldn't be plugged) if a guy couldn't just fill those holes?

MrCleanOK
December 25, 2008, 12:00 PM
I think that "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" is a safe bet in this instance.

moosehunt
December 25, 2008, 12:06 PM
I suppose I would tend to agree with Mr. Clean, but if the extra hole(s) were welded up and then blended in, how would anyone know? As easy as that would likely be, seems a big waste to trash the reciever.

JWarren
December 25, 2008, 12:15 PM
I suppose I would tend to agree with Mr. Clean, but if the extra hole(s) were welded up and then blended in, how would anyone know? As easy as that would likely be, seems a big waste to trash the reciever.


A lot of things regarding gun laws are a big waste.

But so is 10 years in prison.

I'm not willing to bet 10 years of my life on the possiblity that some LEO or ATF person would not notice it.

I WOULD, however, be willing to shed out $60 on a new receiver or $10 on a receiver flat to make sure that doesn't happen.


Consider it insurance.


-- John

RP88
December 25, 2008, 01:50 PM
+1 to that.

AK receivers aren't very expensive.

Also, it doesn't matter if the holes are plugged. All that means is that at one point it WAS a machine gun, and that is probably all it would take to have you bent over the bench in court. You don't want to play around with the what-if's.

moosehunt
December 25, 2008, 02:14 PM
I see your point, and having exactly 0 interest in this type of gun, didn't realize the recievers were that cheap. I know what the law says regarding once is forever, still, if welded up properly, short of an x-ray, it simply couldn't be detected. With my interest in this type of gun and the fact they will soon be illegal anyway, it really doesn't concern me, just a point of interest.

hhmorant
December 25, 2008, 02:41 PM
Silly question, but you're not counting the selector hole are you?

What you're looking for is the "third pin" hole for the auto/safety sear:

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5883/thirdpinbd8.jpg

Note: the pic shows one of the "third pin" Chinese AK's that were imported with a rivet blocking the hole. The ATF considers them MG's regardless of the rivet.

benEzra
December 25, 2008, 02:45 PM
the fact they will soon be illegal anyway
That's not a fact. It's a rather unlikely conjecture, IMO.

JWarren
December 25, 2008, 03:03 PM
the fact they will soon be illegal anyway


Even if they pass another AWB, it would likely be a repeat of the '94 AWB. That ban, like most other gun regulation in history has always had a "Grandfather clause."

Americans are not comfortable with the idea of seizure of property via legislation, regardless of the topic. The precident is recognizably a dangerous one. Because of that, a grandfather clause is a likely "compromise point."


-- John

nalioth
December 25, 2008, 04:16 PM
Silly question, but you're not counting the selector hole are you? Silly response, but your picture shows 4 holes (one plugged, 3 open). There are two sides to a receiver, so that makes 8 holes.

nalioth
December 25, 2008, 04:20 PM
Talk about delayed posting time.

hhmorant
December 25, 2008, 07:38 PM
Quote:Originally Posted by hhmorant
Silly question, but you're not counting the selector hole are you?

Silly response, but your picture shows 4 holes (one plugged, 3 open). There are two sides to a receiver, so that makes 8 holes.

Well, the question wasn't directed at you, but my assumption was we were talking about 8 holes per side.

Looking at a stripped receiver: 3 front rivets + 2 rear rivets + hammer + trigger + selector = 8 per side.

nalioth
December 25, 2008, 08:02 PM
I was talking about a complete gun.

A parts kit can't be full auto or semi auto or any other auto because it's parts and doesn't work.

Macmac
December 25, 2008, 08:07 PM
This picture as shown above is the left side of the receiver. The area pointed out is the critcal one, and is above and just behind the mag well, and or the mag release.

There are many kinds of AK clones, and so it can be confusing.

I know on a SAR-1 there is a Y indent where that hole would be is a SAR-1 were ever a machine gun.

A Yugo M70 AB2 is just flat and plainly never had this hole., and looks much like the pic shown, other than it is easy to tell no hole was ever there.

Before you ruin anything make sure there is or is not any hole.

Then if there is, or was, cut that receiver to bits.

kuntreeboy80
December 25, 2008, 08:27 PM
Oh definitely, wouldnt destroy it till Im sure! I will be giving it the once over maybe even a few times over to make sure! The gun from what he says is no where near firing condition so I guess I will be counting holes and other such things!

hhmorant
December 25, 2008, 08:30 PM
I was talking about a complete gun.

A parts kit can't be full auto or semi auto or any other auto because it's parts and doesn't work.

No offense intended. I tend to think of the receiver by itself since, like you said, it's the only part that matters. For some reason, it didn't dawn on me to include the holes on both sides.

kuntreeboy80, good luck with your receiver.

kuntreeboy80
December 25, 2008, 08:39 PM
HHmorant I am in the same boat was taking me forever to figure out what they meant by 8 holes then whe I saw the pic I finnaly realized both sides! And also I think in parts not the big picture!

Macmac
December 26, 2008, 11:26 AM
Well use your head, untill you are sure.. To ATF the reciver is a gun, and a shoe lace is a full auto machine gun..

I have questions I might like to ask, but fear to ask as I have no intent to get you busted.

If you can determin the contry of origin that should be safe. If we knew that we might be able to help better, but I would refain from posting any pics untill you are sure there is no hole where it is shown in the picture, and never was..

If you can run a search of SAR-1 and some how get a close up shot you will see 2 dents one as a 'X" and the other a 'Y'. The Y is where that hole would be.

Yugo's and Chi com don't have nay dents, but the area was fixed either, as no hole was ever drilled there for imported models.

It is true with giood welding skills you could fill and blend in so to the eye no one could tell, but you would never fool x ray, and other machines made to look where the human eye can't. Under professional scrutiny a fill in repair would stand out like a sore thumb..

The risks are not worth it.

If you can see import markings there is a better chance the gun/reciever never had this hole.

kuntreeboy80
December 26, 2008, 08:22 PM
Well the great is it a full auto or is it a semi and is it salvageable debate is now over. I can now say it is not salvageable and couldn't tell you if it was ever full auto! I am assuming it was it is cut into multiple pieces with a large chunk of receiver missing I will send pics off all the parts and see if someone can tell me what I can use to start a new AK and what is trash. The barrel is super short so I'm wondering if it wasn't an AK 74 instead of a AK 47. Let me know I will post pics as soon as I get batteries for the cam every set I have is D E D dead!

kuntreeboy80
December 26, 2008, 09:29 PM
Here are the pics:
I know the bolt, spring, top cover, trigger, furniture, and a few little odds and ends are good but where can I get the rest I need?

nalioth
December 26, 2008, 09:41 PM
If that's all you were concerned over, don't worry about it.

You've got a box of junk (legally speaking).

kuntreeboy80
December 26, 2008, 09:45 PM
Yea I know apparently he didn't even look over the parts gun when he got it just left it in the box and brought it to me!

Shooter88
December 26, 2008, 09:47 PM
That's just a generic AK parts kit like the ones that were imported in mass quantities a few years ago. All you need to complete it is a receiver and 6 US-made parts to comply with the ban on imported "non-sporting firearms". The most commonly available US made parts for compliance are the hammer, trigger, disconnector, pistol grip, muzzle device, and gas piston. The US-made semi-auto receiver counts towards that total of 6 that you need.

Edit: Interestingly, you have two gas tubes, two buttstocks, and two handguards. Nice to have spares :)

Edit2: That is a 16" barrel, and unless the bore is .22cal instead of .30cal, it couldn't have been an AK74, because the AK74 is the 5.45mm version. AK74s have 16" barrels too.

elmerfudd
December 26, 2008, 09:56 PM
What you've got there is 95% of a parts kit, plus one extra buttstock and gas tube.

The trigger group is for a select fire rifle. There's nothing illegal about that unless you use it when you assemble a rifle.

To assemble it you will need, a receiver, a trigger group, rivets, the pins, shepherds hook, and PG nut and bolt and one other US part on the ATF list to make it legal, (I'd go with a US made pistol grip). The parts aren't that expensive and you could probably get them all for around $100.

Assembling it does require some tools and some work.

It's not worthless though. Last I checked these parts kits were going for around $175.

zoom6zoom
December 26, 2008, 09:58 PM
You have a Romanian "G" type. Even before these were chopped up, many of them were semi auto guns. But it matters not now, as your receiver has been destroyed as per regulations, and it's considered scrap.
Elmer, the cheapest Romy kit I've seen recently was $200, and that was a fluke. Many are going for over $300 now! (Yikes!)

Macmac
December 27, 2008, 10:16 AM
Yes the reciever or whats left of it is standard de-milled.... had you mentioned it was a torched recieve we would have known you were in the clear long ago.. LOL

When I saw the thumb nails i was going balistic. Once I saw the chop job i was much relieved.

You need the parts as stated above by elmerfudd .

If no one here can help you I know another site that can. If you choose that option drop me a pm. I am not about to post a competitive site link in the open.

Macmac
December 27, 2008, 10:22 AM
Moosehunt, If what you say is true, there will be a lot of unhappy owners of about everything, from Remington autoloading shot guns to anything that is semi auto. Lots of American guns more or less always hunting guns, or made as hunting guns, since most of them first were arms of war in some other configuration.

I wonder if finally the Germans will win the patent problem for our Springfield 03? Since we stole Mauser's patent in the first place.

Would you suppose this will also include all of semi auto Browning designs too?

I can't even begin to list all the semi autos made here, that run just about the same way.

If you enjoyed reading about "A Few AK questions?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!