Is the .45 GAP (.45 Glock Automatic Pistol) a dieing or NEAR DEATH caliber?


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outerlimit
December 25, 2008, 05:22 AM
I never see any mention of it anymore. I was never that enthused with it to begin with. Strange non-standard cartridge, chambered in a couple guns, rare mystery powder to get the standard pressure .45acp ballistics with a 200gr. cartridge. With the introduction of the Glock .45ACP "short frame" did Glock manage to kill their own cartridge?

My hands are not very big, but I have no trouble gripping a 1911 sized frame. LEO requirements for small framed guns aside, was it a non-starter to begin with?

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RON in PA
December 25, 2008, 05:47 AM
It has been adopted recently by the New York and Pennsylvania State Police. i suspect that Glock made them an offer they couldn't refuse.

notorious
December 25, 2008, 05:54 AM
It'll be a fringe caliber with a small audience like the .357Sig has become. Most agencies here stuck with the standard 9mm, 40SW or 45ACP, with an option to go .357Sig.

Glock won't let the .45GAP die that easily. The problem is the supply. Nobody here locally can get the ammo for it.

legion3
December 25, 2008, 06:59 AM
I agree Glock won't let it die a natural death, and its likely to become a niche self defense round like the 357 sig, 41 Magnum and the 10mm. Althought the 10mm has a legitimate hunting role.

It is not likely to totally disappear like the 41 Action Express (although ever so often it comes out of the night like a zombie) :what:

mordechaianiliewicz
December 25, 2008, 07:02 AM
If it isn't dead it should be. .45 GAP was reinventing the wheel as far as I'm concerned.

(Maybe I'm a little harsh, but I never saw the point)

outerlimit
December 25, 2008, 07:38 AM
It'll be a fringe caliber with a small audience like the .357Sig has become.

Local LEO use .357Sig, and most .40's will shoot it with a barrel change, and vice versa, so I think .45GAP is much worse off. :)

possum
December 25, 2008, 08:31 AM
to me it is dead and there is no way that i would buy a gun chambered for it, however there are pd's picking it up and using it, i think that is kinda dumb but hey if that is what they want go for it.

Iron Sight
December 25, 2008, 08:51 AM
Somebody gave me several used gap cases mixed with regular .45 auto. Took them home and cleaned them with an ultra sonic noting they use small pistol primers. Maybe I will load them to GAP specs and shoot them as a novelty in my S&W 625 revolver?

olivedrab
December 25, 2008, 08:58 AM
i was in a local gun shop earlier this week, they had two boxes of 20, $50 a piece

Marcus L.
December 25, 2008, 09:56 AM
I owned one for a little while and it was well......it was a .45. Not much to complain about other than ammo availability, selection, and price. It's not dead, but it isn't necessarily getting any more popular either. The .357sig will never be as popular as the 9mm, .40S&W, or .45acp.....and the .45GAP will likely never be as popular as the .357sig.

The only way the GAP will go anywhere is if it were to get major LE or military adoption. Another good way to get the ball rolling would be for someone to neck down the GAP to a .40 caliber bullet in order to achieve 10mm auto performance out of a GAP sized pistol. That way, you get a single platform that will shoot .40/.45 just as you can have one pistol that will shoot .357/.40.

outerlimit
December 25, 2008, 10:02 AM
Marcus, that's interesting about necking it down to make it a fat 10mm. I never thought of that..

I agree that it will never reach any popularity level higher than .357 Sig short of the U.S. military and NATO adopting it in their next sidearm or the fat 10mm thing happening by way of Federal, Winchester and Speer, and the gun rags going wild about it.

I don't see either thing happening though.

Runningman
December 25, 2008, 10:29 AM
Don't know if I would say it is dead. As long as Glocks keep making pistols in it, it has a chance. Glock has probably kept the excellent 10mm on the map and alive just because they still chamber pistols for it.

I've only shot one 45 GAP pistol, but was not to impressed with the accuracy of it at 25 yards. My groups were rather large at that range with the 45 GAP.

I let the owner of the 45 GAP pistol shoot my G31 357 Sig the same day. His groups were about half the size with the G31 compared to the 45 GAP. Next time I saw him, he was shooting a Sig 226 in the 357 SIG.

notorious
December 25, 2008, 05:41 PM
Local LEO use .357Sig, and most .40's will shoot it with a barrel change, and vice versa, so I think .45GAP is much worse off.


There will always be some agencies who want to be on the vanguard and adopt a new chambering that sounds good. There were quite a few that jumped on the .357Sig bandwagon but by and large, you are not going to beat the 9/45 and followed by some 40s in the police market.

Supertac45
December 25, 2008, 05:42 PM
You won't find a new one in 10 years. It's D.O.A.

Treo
December 25, 2008, 07:44 PM
We're fifteen posts in and nobody has said " It's an answer to a question nobody asked" yet? Ya'll are gettin' slow:D

Shooter973
December 25, 2008, 07:52 PM
About 10 days ago I was in my local Sportsman's Warehouse, and 45 GAP ammo was the only ammo that they had plenty of!!!:uhoh:
Everything else that was more conventional was sold out to the bare walls! But they had about 20-30 boxes of 45 GAP sitting out. :confused:
That seems to tell me that it's just about as dead as it can be!!!:scrutiny:

45auto
December 26, 2008, 08:16 AM
They still produce 44/40, 38/40 ammo I believe.
So, it could be around quite a while.

Now, for 1911 45 users, I think a DOUBLESTACK 45 GAP might be a interesting project. How about the grip feel of a HP on a 1911.

What do you think? ;)

PRM
December 26, 2008, 08:29 AM
I would not count it out - Gaston Glock wanted a round with his name on it, and Glock is going to be a here for awhile. Would I want one - NO!!! Think about it, calibres that are in general usage such as 9MM, .45 ACP, .38 Special... will always have a more of a surplus of ammunition. Especially, if it is one the military and police have used or is currently using. More product available means lower prices. To me, new is not always better, especially if you are on a budget.

fineredmist
December 26, 2008, 09:32 AM
There are several countries which prohibit civilians from owning weapons which are chambered in military calibers and this is one way around that. If you look at the number of 9 mm rounds available then it makes sense to have one in .45 caliber. Italy and Mexico are just two countries that come to mind and the .45 GAP fills the void.

Pulse
December 26, 2008, 11:08 AM
Italy and Mexico are just two countries that come to mind and the .45 GAP fills the void.

Italy droped the ban on .45 ACP, sales of the .45 GAP basicly droped to 0 over the course of a week.
now, if you are still unfortunate enough to own a .45GAP in europe, you have to import ammo from the USA because there is simply noone that makes them anymore in europe.
checking around online, i was not able to find a store in germany that has .45GAP listed and only one store in switzerland that has it listed, at almost twice the Price of regular .45ACP.


compareing the .45GAP to the .357sig is also not very good, the .357sig has two things going for it:

hard barrier penetration and flat trajectory(accuracy).

the .357sig has a very strong following among Hunters for a trapshot(or how do you call it in english?) on wildhogs or other potentialy dangerous animals.
at the same time the same handgun can serve as a personal defense firearm, because since the openborder schengen treaty, hunters get targeted by criminal elements because a BlaserR93 with good Scope can get you 10k+ on the blackmarket.

moooose102
December 26, 2008, 11:30 AM
i never saw a reason for it to begin with. it is basicly a 45 acp with their name on it, changed enough that you have to use their namesake ammo. it would be no different if Taurus or Llama made a "358 magunum" that was .010" shorter with 85 fps higher velocity and a different shaped rim. hype trying to sell guns. absoloutly worthless IMO.

helz_mcfugly
December 26, 2008, 11:41 AM
the .45 GAP was made for the US millitary so the other side couldnt arm & fire our guns if they got there hands on them. Ive read articals that Glock was concidering taking the .45 GAP round off the market for the US public. I had a chance to buy one for $300 so I researched it and thats why I didnt get it. I never find any brass for them at the range and its not the norm to see the ammo on the shelf around here but when I do Its more then .45 ACP.

Coronach
December 26, 2008, 12:50 PM
It is not different enough from .45ACP to be worth the hassle of using it, for most people. The whole point seemed to be:

1. Ostensibly, obtain .45 ACP ballistics from a more efficient/shorter cartridge, thus be able to stuff it in a gun with a shorter (front to back) grip.

2. Pessimistically, to obtain a portion of the market with a proprietary cartridge.

The dubious benefits of #1 do not make it worth dealing with the manifold complications of #2. And this completely ignores what handloaders can do with the ACP that they cannot attempt with the GAP.

It's on life support. It may recover, but I ain't gonna bet on it.

Mike

notorious
December 26, 2008, 04:31 PM
the .45 GAP was made for the US millitary so the other side couldnt arm & fire our guns if they got there hands on them. Ive read articals that Glock was concidering taking the .45 GAP round off the market for the US public. I had a chance to buy one for $300 so I researched it and thats why I didnt get it. I never find any brass for them at the range and its not the norm to see the ammo on the shelf around here but when I do Its more then .45 ACP.

Or... it's an attempt by the Bilderbergers and the Triumvirate to take over the most American of cartridges... the .45ACP. By taking down our symbol of freedom and patriotism, we become easier to defeat. After we give up our .45ACP guns, they then pull the plug on .45GAP production... then we become unarmed because a lot of people would rather be unarmed than shoot a gun that is not a .45 caliber pistol... so comes the new world order.

P.S. I kid... I kid...

P.P.S. Yes, it's on its last breaths.

Iron Sight
December 26, 2008, 04:39 PM
The shorter cases might load faster with moon clips and a revolver? Plus be smaller lighter to carry?

rondog
December 26, 2008, 04:48 PM
It's dead as far as I'M concerned. I ain't gonna be buying one.

Coronach
December 26, 2008, 04:56 PM
Another thing about the .45GAP...

It may sell better overseas than it does here, due to laws in some nations banning weapons chambered in a military caliber. It is a way to get .45 ACP performance from something that is not banned.

I have no idea if this the case or not, but it follows logically.

Mike

notorious
December 26, 2008, 06:05 PM
The SF G21 did not help GAP sales, I am sure.

mavracer
December 26, 2008, 06:17 PM
I'm not sure if it will die completely.But it's past it's peak.

burningsquirrels
December 26, 2008, 06:32 PM
it was a good idea, but not worth the hassle for mainstream buyers.

i agree on the non-military calibers for other countries and the smaller grip, but here in the u.s. it just isn't really worth the hassle.

notorious
December 26, 2008, 06:33 PM
It had a peak?

mavracer
December 26, 2008, 06:43 PM
It had a peak?
Yes, and there's Mt Sunflower the highest point in KS.LOL

VegasOPM
December 26, 2008, 06:53 PM
Ironically GLOCK themselves hastened the demise of the .45 GAP with the advent of the 21SF. Why go after a oddball caliber when you can get a gun that shoots the real deal in a normal-sized-hand friendly package. The only reason that the GAP came into existence was because the 21 was only usable by NBA players and Orangutans (okay- a bit of hyperbole).

notorious
December 26, 2008, 06:56 PM
Ironically GLOCK themselves hastened the demise of the .45 GAP with the advent of the 21SF. Why go after a oddball caliber when you can get a gun that shoots the real deal in a normal-sized-hand friendly package. The only reason that the GAP came into existence was because the 21 was only usable by NBA players and Orangutans (okay- a bit of hyperbole).

Well heck... my partner and I must both be simian ballers then because we both use G21s.

helz_mcfugly
December 26, 2008, 07:51 PM
it should read on the bottom of the case "45 CRAP"

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 26, 2008, 08:06 PM
Does this:

http://www.visualparadox.com/images/no-linking-allowed-main/crossbones.jpg

answer your question? :)

outerlimit
December 27, 2008, 12:34 AM
I'm just glad there aren't many that show up at the range. .45acp brass used to be easy to spot.. now you never know, it may be GAP until you look at it closer.

HorseSoldier
December 27, 2008, 12:44 AM
Ironically GLOCK themselves hastened the demise of the .45 GAP with the advent of the 21SF. Why go after a oddball caliber when you can get a gun that shoots the real deal in a normal-sized-hand friendly package.

The 21SF seems to be only a modest improvement on the 21 in terms of ergonomics for smaller-handed shooters, and doesn't replicate the grip size of the 9mm and 40 cal Glocks.

Which doesn't make the 45 GAP any less of an orphan, in any case.

notorious
December 27, 2008, 12:55 AM
The 21SF feels like a whole different gun in my hands and I have been carrying a G21 since 1999 so I am vaguely familiar with what the G21 feels like. The first time I grabbed a G21SF, it was just like night and day... okay, more like dusk and day but still, there's a noticeable difference.

RonE
December 27, 2008, 02:43 AM
I can remember when the gun writers raved about it, it was wonderful because of less recoil, great power and fit perfectly into some nitch or another.....It seemed that the gun writers didn't have anything new so they invented the cartridge.....I also remember the Edsel, Two Stroke Harley Davidsons and the Aero Coupe....All great ideas in small minds. DeLoreans might still be around if they were built with more than 130 Horse Power and could get out of their own way. The .45 GAP had so much engineering money in the cartridge and the one or two platforms for it that it had to waste an equeal amount on advertising. One must ask a question about new products: What can it do better than what we already have at a lesser cost? The answer for the GAP is absolutly nothing.

legion3
December 27, 2008, 06:12 AM
I feel no difference between the 21 and the 21 SF, its still too fat, and would buy a Glock 45 ACP in a G19 frame (not the 36) but have no interest in the 45 GAP.

015255
December 27, 2008, 08:09 AM
Carry G30 45acp ... nice pistol.
Carry G39 45gap... easier CCW
Prefer G39 for CCW.

notorious
December 27, 2008, 03:09 PM
I feel no difference between the 21 and the 21 SF, its still too fat, and would buy a Glock 45 ACP in a G19 frame (not the 36) but have no interest in the 45 GAP.

Oh, don't I wish... when the G30 came out, I ran to the store and was sorely disappointed to find that it was bigger than my G23 which made it pointless for me to give that up, much less my G26. No G36 for me either because a single column Glock is just blasphemous. I might as well have a 1911 in 9mm... oops, did I say that out loud?

kmbrman
December 27, 2008, 03:29 PM
As far as I can tell , 45 GAP is in for the cartridge graveyard . Now that handgun makers have figured out ways to make slimmer 45ACP gripframes on their guns this solves the problem. Also, just get stuck in podunk and see if you can find a selection of 45Gap in stock ! Before long it will be dead IMHO.

notorious
December 27, 2008, 03:33 PM
So sad...

45GAP
357Sig
10mm
475 Wiley
41AE

and a whole host of other well-meaning calibers that never caught on the way it was intended to.

Jason_G
December 27, 2008, 10:40 PM
There's an old axiom, "one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel."

Somehow it seems appropriate here.

Jason

1911 guy
December 27, 2008, 10:54 PM
Glock had a decent idea, put .45acp performance in a shorter package. Then they shot themselves in the foot because they're a one trick pony and that trick is double stack handguns. They defeated the only advantage their new chambering had.

Make a .45GAP in a slim single stack and you might have something.

Runningman
December 27, 2008, 11:52 PM
So sad...

45GAP
357Sig
10mm
475 Wiley
41AE

and a whole host of other well-meaning calibers that never caught on the way it was intended to.
The 357 Sig is being used by the US Secret Service, US Air Marshals, VA State Police, NC Highway Patrol, Texas DPS, OK Highway Patrol, NM State Police, and Chicago transit authority just to name a few off the top of my head. I don't think it is in danger of going obsolete anytime soon.

notorious
December 28, 2008, 03:54 AM
Quote:
So sad...

45GAP
357Sig
10mm
475 Wiley
41AE

and a whole host of other well-meaning calibers that never caught on the way it was intended to.

The 357 Sig is being used by the US Secret Service, US Air Marshals, VA State Police, NC Highway Patrol, Texas DPS, OK Highway Patrol, NM State Police, and Chicago transit authority just to name a few off the top of my head. I don't think it is in danger of going obsolete anytime soon.

I didn't say it was obsolete, but I did say it didn't catch on quite the way Sig thought it would on the order of the 40Smith&Wesson which actually established itself quite well immediately in the marketplace.

These manufacturers all want to carve out a caliber with their name on it, it seems but the good ideas are running out and Smith got the last good one.

Pulse
December 28, 2008, 10:33 AM
I didn't say it was obsolete, but I did say it didn't catch on quite the way Sig thought it would on the order of the 40Smith&Wesson which actually established itself quite well immediately in the marketplace.

well, the 357sig has a strong following all around the world.
hunters in europe love it and a buddy of mine that immigrated to Brazil uses it as caliber for the farmprotection group he established, it is also rapidly catching on with other farmers around him.

1k rounds of .357sig also cost 'only' 550 swiss francs here, wich is actualy less then the 560 for 1k rounds of quality .40S&W or 600 for 1k rounds of .45ACP.

Redneck with a 40
December 28, 2008, 10:48 AM
What's it offer over the 45 ACP? Slightly smaller frame? Big deal. There are plenty of compact 1911's that are very comfortable in my hand. It might hold a couple more rounds, again, big deal. I don't think it'll be around in a couple of years.

It certainly has NOTHING over the 40 S&W.:neener:

Grayrider
December 28, 2008, 12:09 PM
I thought as well that its ideal niche might be in compact CCW guns. It does allow for a slightly shorter grip (front to back), and that bothers some people in a 45 ACP. Not me, but I have run into quite a few shooters over the years that it does. It would also seem to make being a rare caliber less important since most shooters shoot their tiny guns less than their full sized pistols. They can be unpleasant to run. Something like the Kahr P45 or PM 45 in GAP would be just a bit smaller. Still, the ACP models are a comfy size and that does give a shooter more options for ammo.

I vote dead or dieing, with perhaps a slightly better future than 41AE given brass may be more available for reloading and no special dies are needed. Now the 41AE was a much better round, and I would sure have rather seen that one survive. Please lets all have a moment of silence for that one, at least those of us who remember it with a measure of fondness.....





:D

John

notorious
December 28, 2008, 02:02 PM
The 41AE didn't have a fighting chance without a big firearm manufacturer to back its play. The GAP has the Glock behemoth behind it to guarantee a long life even if other companies don't take up arms to offer pistols in the caliber.

40SW got lucky and had a niche and now every major company makes one or more guns to shoot the round. I think Smith actually sells the least amount of guns chambered for its own round.

atblis
December 28, 2008, 02:15 PM
Wasn't the XD offered in 45 GAP?

Drail
December 28, 2008, 03:53 PM
The .45 GAP is just more marketing from the Master of Marketing, Gaston. Even if you don't like his design work, you have to admit he is a marketing genius. Sort of like Harley Davidson.

earl_simmons
December 28, 2008, 04:52 PM
It was clearly a failure, which GLOCK appears to have recognized with the SF models. To make a high-capacity .45 in a reasonably-sized frame, GLOCK shrunk the cartridge. Other companies successfully shrunk their grips.

notorious
December 28, 2008, 05:47 PM
Wasn't the XD offered in 45 GAP?

The fact that you have to ask shows that it is not quite as popular as Herr Gaston wanted it....

mgregg85
December 28, 2008, 07:22 PM
The answer to a question that no one asked. I don't know if its dying but I wouldn't risk buying one right now when it's future is so uncertain. The .45 ACP does everything the GAP can do, its just a bit longer, and the .45 ACP will still be around in 50 years.

model of 1905
December 28, 2008, 10:34 PM
So sad...

45GAP
357Sig
10mm
475 Wiley
41AE

and a whole host of other well-meaning calibers that never caught on the way it was intended to.

The .357 sig may well replace the 40 cal in time, when real world results come in that show the superioity of .357 sig over the 40 and in some cases even the .45 ACP (penetrating power). Right now the reason it is not as popular is the fact there are so many 40 cal guns in the hands of the public and the perceived notion that 357 sig ammmo is so much more expensive (which its not compared to 40 or 45 ACP). Lets see where 357 Sig is in 10 years. Believe me it will be more popular than it is now.

eng23ine
December 28, 2008, 10:40 PM
The 357 Sig is being used by the US Secret Service, US Air Marshals, VA State Police, NC Highway Patrol, Texas DPS, OK Highway Patrol, NM State Police, and Chicago transit authority

New York, South Carolina and Pennsylvania State Police all use 45 GAP...dunno who else, but I wouldn't go as far as saying its dead quite yet.

Wasn't the XD offered in 45 GAP?

Yes, I had one until it got traded for another 1911...yesterday.

notorious
December 28, 2008, 11:17 PM
New York, South Carolina and Pennsylvania State Police all use 45 GAP...dunno who else, but I wouldn't go as far as saying its dead quite yet.


LAPD and LASO issue 9mm Berettas with LAPD giving the option to go with a G21 in 45ACP. Most of our guys have G21 in 45ACP as well even though the standard is a G17. My buddies who work in departments who have a choice overwhelmingly go with the G21. I think there's 3 guys who carry the 357Sig to everyone else and that's no that many. Maybe it's a west coast thing?

Bozo
December 29, 2008, 01:12 AM
South Carolina State Troopers did adopt the .45 Gap a couple of years ago for whatever reason some brilliant person came up with. Now however there is rumors that it is being replaced with a more conventional cartridge.

mordechaianiliewicz
December 30, 2008, 06:08 AM
I will now donate a few more cents.

My local PD (Independence) uses .357 Sig. A few other departments do. .357 Sig is being seen as the caliber that wealthy departments use (though my town isn't wealthy, it has a little money. Enough to support the cartridge). KCPD, KCKPD, Lee's Summit, MO and Overland Park, KS all use a .40 S&W (though OP is looking at .357 Sig). Raytown, MO uses 9mm Glock 19s. These are the Departments I know.

Nobody locally uses a .45 regularly. Only one department (from the poorest suburb), uses 9mm. Everyone else uses .40 or .357 Sig.

Now, there are advantages that .40 and .357 Sig have. We can argue quite abit about which is the better cartridge, ballistically, price wise, practically. But, we can't really have any of the same arguments when talking about .45 GAP.

.40 S&W came in to fit a role between 9mm and .45 that was seriously lacking. It was obviously a wonderful "just right" sort of thing. Ballistically, it's "real world" results have been stellar by all accounts.

.357 Sig is basically the .40 S&W with better penetration in terms of solving the 9mm vs. .45 argument. Where it really shines is that it's ballistics are more like a .357 Magnum than a .40 S&W. (And .357 Magnum remains the best manstopper statistically)

With a hollow point bullet, it makes one hell of a hole, and gets great penetration (from the results that have been observed so far).

.45 GAP: It was designed, in theory because the .45 was too big to comfortably be held in a double stack mag. Not because there was a ballistic hole to fill (ala .40). Not because there was a true platform hole to fill (.357 Sig being the auto version of .357 Magnum finally in an appropriate cartridge case unlike 9x23 and .38 Super). But because some people had a hard time holding the few high cap .45s that are out there.

I know the horse is so broken and bloody might not seem much point, but Glock screwed up.

legion3
December 30, 2008, 07:10 AM
the perceived notion that 357 sig ammmo is so much more expensive (which its not compared to 40 or 45 ACP).

I was bored...357 Sig ammo is generally more expensive across the board and there are less choices listed, however on SD ammo the cost is about the same but not on practice ammo.

Does WWB put out a 357 Sig?

9mm of course smoked all these rounds in cost.


From Ammuntion to go: On FMJ

50rds - 357 Sig Speer Lawman 125gr. FMJ Ammo $17.49
50rds - 357 Sig Fiocchi 124gr FMJ Ammo $19.95
50rds - 357 SIG S&B FMJ Ammo $21.95

50rds - 40 S&W Aguila FMJ Ammo $15.49
50rds - 40 S&W Federal American Eagle 155gr. FMJ Ammo $15.95
50rds - 40 S&W Federal American Eagle 165gr. FMJ Ammo $15.95
50rds - 40 S&W Federal American Eagle 180gr. FMJ Ammo $15.95
50rds - 40 S&W Fiocchi 180gr. FMJ Ammo $15.95

50rds - 45 ACP Aguila 230gr. FMJ Ammo $16.89
50rds - 45 ACP Speer Lawman 185gr. TMJ Ammo $16.95
50rds - 45 ACP Fiocchi 230gr. FMJ Ammo $18.49
50rds - 45 ACP Federal American Eagle 230gr. FMJ Ammo $17.95

ON SD HP:

50rds - 357 Sig Remington UMC 125gr. Hollow Point Ammo $27.95
20rds - 357 Sig Hornady 124gr. XTP Hollow Point Ammo $14.95
20rds - 357 Sig Corbon DPX 125gr. HP Ammo $29.95

50rds - 40 S&W Speer LE Gold Dot 155gr. HP Ammo $25.95
50rds - 40 S&W Federal LE Tactical Bonded 155gr. HP Ammo $26.95
20rds - 40 S&W Corbon DPX 140gr. HP Ammo $30.95 :eek:

50rds - 45 ACP Federal LE Tactical Hydra-Shok 185gr. +P HP Ammo $26.95
50rds - 45 ACP Speer LE Gold Dot 185gr. HP Ammo $28.95
20rds - 45 ACP Corbon DPX 160gr. HP Ammo $27.95

.41Dave
December 30, 2008, 05:37 PM
.45 GAP is dying. The only reason to buy one is to put it up unfired with a few boxes of ammo in the hopes that in 30 or 40 years it might be a rare collector's piece that will fetch big bucks.

wally
December 30, 2008, 09:10 PM
They still produce 44/40, 38/40 ammo I believe.

Yeah but these are having a resurgence in the cowboy action shooting market.

Wasn't the XD offered in 45 GAP?
Yes, and a side by side A/B comparison of the XD GAP vs. XD ACP immediately shows the fallacy of the concept!

It'll live on in Police use as long as subsidizing it has value to Gaston.

Not even very original, look up the some what obscure European .45HP in limited use in countries where "military calibers" are not allowed for civilians. He pretty much copied it for his GAP round.

Had to really hurt his Ego to well all those Glock pistols marked .40 S&W and .357 SIG :)

--wally.

notorious
December 31, 2008, 05:22 AM
....

notorious
December 31, 2008, 05:23 AM
....

notorious
December 31, 2008, 05:24 AM
....

notorious
December 31, 2008, 05:40 AM
....

notorious
December 31, 2008, 06:49 AM
Actually, Gaston marks his G22, G27, and G35 as the 40SW, not 40S&W so as to not give them the satisfaction of having that ampersand. I have one of the first G23s made and that's the marking on the barrel. I recall reading some magazine articles about that in 1991-1992 when the 40S&W round came out and Glock chambered their gun for it right after S&W introduced the 4006.

kmbrman
December 31, 2008, 12:25 PM
In reading an older post from notorious, the only caliber recently marketed that I think will stick around is 357 Sig. Here in Texas several LEO groups like our Highway Patrol Dept. has chosen the 357 Sig. The Sig name probably helps also. And they are using Sig. autos as their weapon of choice.

outerlimit
December 31, 2008, 12:39 PM
Some local LEO use it here too. I agree and not to get too off topic here, but I think the 147gr. 357SIG load by Double Tap really seems like a nice and effective loading. Couple that with the ability to change back and forth between .40S&W and I say it's not going anywhere.

GregGry
December 31, 2008, 03:05 PM
What I think glock should do inorder to same their name on a cartridge is this:

Create a .50 Glock round and offer a sub compact, compact, and fullsize pistol chambered for it. There are way to many different .45 cartridges, and when you don't establish yours is somehow better nobody will buy it. Switch to a bigger round that few guns are chambered for (especially with the dreaded half inch barrel aka max diamater) and you will sell a ton.

Pulse
December 31, 2008, 03:26 PM
Create a .50 Glock round and offer a sub compact, compact, and fullsize pistol chambered for it.

you mean like the .50GI ?

not a Glock round, but the 21 is one of the few firearms chambered for it.
and yes, it sucks just as mutch as the .45GAP.

notorious
December 31, 2008, 07:32 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I just don't see bottleneck rounds for handguns as being able to knock any regular looking handgun rounds out for competitiveness... or maybe it's just my sense of tradition.

GregGry
December 31, 2008, 08:02 PM
I have seen photos of the .50gi conversion. However that catridge has little to no backing it. If glock designed a cartridge similar to the GI and backed it, its possible it would become a lasting cartridge.

ljnowell
December 31, 2008, 08:37 PM
you mean like the .50GI ?

not a Glock round, but the 21 is one of the few firearms chambered for it.
and yes, it sucks just as mutch as the .45GAP.
Yeah, the GI round is pretty lame really. Not a whole lot going for it.

notorious
January 1, 2009, 03:25 AM
I liked the 50AE Desert Eagle!

mordechaianiliewicz
January 4, 2009, 09:42 PM
Yes, notorious. It's tradition.

There is no reason for an autoloading cartridge for a handgun to not be bottlenecked. What I mean by that is that there is no positive or negative over any of the straight walled or tapered cases.

In a revolver, bottlenecking presents problems, but in an autoloader, no problems. The only reason we didn't see a bottlenecked cartridge in pistols be more popular is because all the attempts up to this point have emphasized penetration over stopping power.

.357 Sig was about the only way to get .357 Mag power without also having a rediculously large grip. I wouldn't be too surprised by more bottlenecked handgun cartridges coming out in the future.

notorious
January 4, 2009, 09:46 PM
I think it just looks different and you know how the American market is when confronted with something new.

mordechaianiliewicz
January 5, 2009, 12:03 AM
Actually, the American market IMHO, is very receptive to new designs within a certain segment. The older shooters do tend to shy away from "newfangled products" but younger shooters often love new products (even when more than a few are of dubious benefit)

notorious
January 5, 2009, 01:09 AM
The youngster might love it but they don't have the buying power of the older crowd... HA!

CDW4ME
March 16, 2009, 04:53 PM
I bought a Glock in 45 GAP, model 39 (chunky but fairly easy to hide), this thread makes it seem the pistol will be obsolete in the near future.

:oI bought a Colt Delta Elite 10mm when they brought it out years ago, got rid of it before the death knell rang.

Ash
March 16, 2009, 07:15 PM
Well, since this thread is resurrected, I guess I'll reply.

The Glock 37 is featured in the CDNN catalogue. That is as bad a sign as any that a new Glock, not a LE turn in, is featured in the tome dedicated to close-outs.

Ash

Quiet
March 16, 2009, 10:07 PM
As long as Law Enforcement uses/supports a particular cartridge, that cartridge will not "die out".

The .45GAP is currently standard issue for four state law enforcement agencies (NY State Police, GA State Patrol, PA State Police & SC Highway Patrol) and numerous local law enforcement agencies.

slammy
March 16, 2009, 10:30 PM
Georgia State Patrol carries them or did. I have a glock 38 and have no problems getting ammo of any size here. I like the round, easy to shoot and I don't know where some of these posters get their prices from...they must live out in the west or in the northeast, btw what ammo is not hard to find these days other than .22.

mljdeckard
March 16, 2009, 11:04 PM
I'll walk by as it bleeds.

kentucky_smith
March 17, 2009, 06:50 AM
There are about 20 boxes of it on the Sportsman's Warehouse display, pretty much the only ammo that's left.

Still high-priced per box though. If it goes on closeout I might get some to shoot in my 625JM. :D

Ash
March 17, 2009, 08:05 AM
There was a time when 41ae was easy to get...

Ash

CDW4ME
March 17, 2009, 08:49 AM
I'm guilty of digging up the "old" thread. :o Better to start a new one?:confused:

Having ammo available when all others are gone and being at CDNN closeouts is not good.

I like the gun / concept. I thought of it as an improved Colt Officers model:what: ; 45 bullet, about the same capacity, easier to conceal (the way I carry).

coloradokevin
March 18, 2009, 04:50 AM
I don't know why the .45 GAP is always the subject of such hatred? Perhaps the loyal followers of the .45 ACP (and there are a LOT of them) believe that this cartridge detracts from their glory?

Regardless, I've carried a Glock 37 as a duty weapon for 4 years now. I've shot about 10,000 rounds of .45 GAP ammo in that time, and haven't experienced even a single failure! The reason I like this cartridge is because Glock was able to build a gun that had the same grip size as their 9mm G17 or .40S&W G22, all while achieving the ballistics of a .45ACP.

I don't think anyone ever felt that this cartridge would replace the time-tested .45ACP, but there is no reason that both cartridges can't exist! Still, I also belive that the GAP will ultimately land about where the .357 Sig and the 10mm have... It will be around, but it won't be one of the "Big Three" (to me that list is: 9mm, .40S&W, or .45ACP, based on what I've seen other departments carrying).

Ammo cost around here is about $24.50-26.50 per box of 50 for the GAP, and not every store carries it. For me the cost of GAP ammo is identical to that of the ACP ammo! I reload, and both cartridges are using the exact same bullet. I get my brass as range pick-ups, so I don't have that cost. Powder and primers run about the same (though you should note that the GAP takes small pistol primers, while the ACP takes large pistol primers).

The only issue I've had is trying to find .45GAP brass. This can be a bit tricky at times, though I'm probably up to nearly 500 pieces at this time.

Ash
March 18, 2009, 05:54 AM
From what I have seen, the issue is that the emperor wears no clothes on the grip size issue. Glocks waste a huge amount of space in the mag area and a simple re-design of the frame and magazine (you know, all that air added to the plastic magazine covering take up a lot of space) would have accomplished the same thing as designing a new round. This is demonstrated by the Springfield XD. But instead of changing the pistol to fit the round, they changed the round to fit the pistol. Okay, no biggie really. But, it was heralded as better than sliced bread and folks claimed that 45acp was now obsolete. The real world practice proved otherwise, especially given the heavier slides of the Glock models chambered for GAP.

maksim
March 18, 2009, 03:48 PM
one of my fav guns to shoot is the xd in 45gap.... best grip, very low recoil.

Dan Crocker
March 18, 2009, 04:06 PM
the .45 GAP was made for the US millitary so the other side couldnt arm & fire our guns if they got there hands on them. Ive read articals that Glock was concidering taking the .45 GAP round off the market for the US public. I had a chance to buy one for $300 so I researched it and thats why I didnt get it. I never find any brass for them at the range and its not the norm to see the ammo on the shelf around here but when I do Its more then .45 ACP.
Where the hell did you hear this? I'm thinking that it's patently incorrect information.

Hostile Amish
March 18, 2009, 06:01 PM
.45 GAP has same performance, higher price.

Ash
March 18, 2009, 06:09 PM
And nobody has chambered a new pistol in it in a while now. Worse, nobody has announced new plans for chambering pistols in it.

Ash

Big Daddy Grim
March 18, 2009, 06:13 PM
I don't think the GAP is worth it I'll stick with good old .45acp

Duke of Doubt
March 18, 2009, 07:14 PM
Dead.

mljdeckard
March 18, 2009, 07:19 PM
I saw so little difference in the grip size the first time I fired a G-21, someone had to point out to me that it was different than the G-17 frame. It certainly wasn't a problem looking for a solution to ME.

Gryffydd
March 18, 2009, 07:43 PM
I'd be interested in grip size numbers between a .45ACP XD and a .45GAP Glock. The .45ACP XD is perfectly comfortable in my relatively small hands. The Glock 20/21s are no were even close. I haven't had the chance to personally check out a GAP Glock.

outerlimit
March 27, 2009, 07:52 PM
Try out the Glock 21 slim frame and let us know what you think. :)

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