Speer replica or clone load 124gr +P Gold Dot GDHP & Fed HST 147gr??


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creativetownsman
December 25, 2008, 02:09 PM
Happy Holidays!

In the past, I've found threads that were very helpful in suggesting actual clone or replica loads for the Speer .38 spec. 135gr +P GDHP.

I was wondering if anyone has worked up a similar clone or replica load for the Speer 124gr +P GDHP for the 9mm?

I was wondering if anyone has worked up a similar clone or replica load for the Federal HST standard pressure 147gr (P9HST2)?

I'm seeking a load from a recoil and shooting perspective that would be indistinguishable from the factory load. It would be nice if velocity were the same, but that is not an absolute requirement.

If so, kindly respond with info as it would be appreciated!

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Galil5.56
December 25, 2008, 02:21 PM
For a published load that that matches the speed w/o "+P" rated pressures, I think you will find Unique, and especially Power Pistol very hard to beat. For whatever reason, it seems these plated style bullets are not as easy to drive to the same speed with an identical charge as their actual jacketed counterpart. For me, I load other 124 grain jacketed bullets to chronographed speeds of 1220 fps for Unique, and 1250 fps+ with Power Pistol with no signs of excessive pressure at published max charges.

Other loads using Blue Dot reach similar velocities according to the published data, but since I have not chronographed any BD loads yet, I can't confirm the numbers. No doubt other propellants such as WSF, HS-6, AA#5 and similar could also do what you want with the right data.

creativetownsman
December 25, 2008, 02:31 PM
Thanks.

I do use the AA#5 exclusively for the .38 special load (credit is due to jfh & ArchAngel CD!). Don't know if it would bear any resemblance re the 9mm load.

And the HST may be even more distinguishable.

45ACPUSER
December 25, 2008, 03:14 PM
You sure can work up a clone load, but you will have to do the leg work with the Gold Dots as they are available across the counter for reloading. Now, the on the other thand you can not get the HST's. You have to sit down and chrono the load and then safely work up a load to replicate the numbers you are getting from your gun! Not a hard chore at all.

chrisf8657
December 26, 2008, 03:53 AM
I was after the exact same thing - duplicate the Speer +P 124g load.

With 7.1g of Power Pistol, I get 1249 (IIRC 20 SD) from my Beretta 92FS.
No signs of pressure issues. Recoil wise I haven't tested, I would bet it's similar tho.

creativetownsman
December 26, 2008, 05:49 PM
WADR, my first priority is NOT looking to duplicate velocity, though that would be nice.

I'm seeking loads that would FEEL the same as the factory loads, so they would be indistinguishable from the factory loads.

I've been able to do this (with some 'tweaking') using 'jfh's' data for the Speer .38 special 135gr. +P GDHP, so that mixing the two in the cylinder of a J-frame all rounds feel the same with respect to felt recoil, the nature of the recoil, and all are reasonably the same when it comes to POA/POI.

IOW, I'm asking if anyone has done the work-up, as jfh did with the .38 GDHP SB.

Might be able to save me and others the time, work, and attendant expense...:banghead: :)

45ACPUSER
December 26, 2008, 09:39 PM
No you still have to do the work! There are no free lunches with reloading. Either you have the time and inclination or you do not. What works in one gun may not in yours! Let alone have to be safe!

I'm seeking loads that would FEEL the same as the factory loads, so they would be indistinguishable from the factory loads.

If that is your GOAL then you have to replicate the load with respect to velocity, and that comes from knowing the numbers from a session with a chrono. Otherwise you be LOST!

creativetownsman
December 27, 2008, 02:04 PM
As I said above:

"I've been able to do this (with some 'tweaking') using 'jfh's' data for the Speer .38 special 135gr. +P GDHP, so that mixing the two in the cylinder of a J-frame all rounds feel the same with respect to felt recoil, the nature of the recoil, and all are reasonably the same when it comes to POA/POI.

IOW, I'm asking if anyone has done the work-up, as jfh did with the .38 GDHP SB."

See the following for example:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3738182&highlight=Gold+Dot+135+recipe#post3738182

So, if anyone's done a similar work-up for the Speer 9mm 124gr +P GDHP and/or the Fed HST 147gr, I'd greatly appreciate the benefit of your experience. It would at least get me and others down the road to tweaking it for our guns.

45ACPUSER
December 27, 2008, 09:59 PM
So, if anyone's done a similar work-up for the Speer 9mm 124gr +P GDHP and/or the Fed HST 147gr, I'd greatly appreciate the benefit of your experience. It would at least get me and others down the road to tweaking it for our guns.

What part of idea that FED HST bullets are not available as reloading component do not you get?

You just do not get it! That is okay cause new reloaders seem to have ideas that are not congruent with reality!

Please do the work up in your gun! There is something to be said for having confidence in your work!

creativetownsman
December 27, 2008, 10:36 PM
You're not understanding the point!

I don't need the same bullet(s). For instance, I use a cast bullet for the .38 clone (140gr TCFP). Or I can use the Speer GD, or any other hollowpoint, if I prefer.

If we're to split hairs, I guess that I don't want a specific clone load per se, I just want one that FEELS like the original factory load! So there! :cuss: :banghead: :fire::neener:

And, YES, it may duplicate velocity, and it may not. And, yes, I can live without an exact replica with the same powder and bullet as factory in the HST.

But it's gotta duplicate the 'feel' of the factory round.

Have I made myself clear? :D

creativetownsman
January 7, 2009, 01:32 AM
Anyone out there who's worked on these clone loads?

huntershooter
January 7, 2009, 08:25 AM
I worked up a load for an XTP (124 gr.) +P using HS-6.
I do NOT have the info in front of me-but am thinking that I was using 7.6 gr. of HS-6 for 1230 fps out of a P-35 Browning. Velocity was higher out of a 5" 1911 (longer barrel).
Check Hodgens web site for reloading information.

RidgwayCO
January 7, 2009, 11:39 AM
My work with the Speer 124gr GDHP indicates that the two best powders for achieving +P performance at standard SAAMI pressures are Power Pistol and VV 3N37. I lean towards 3N37 because it doesn't throw the fireball that Power Pistol is known for...

I'm able to load these rounds comparable to the factory +P because they're being fed into Beretta pistols (an 8000 Cougar and a 92FS) which function perfectly with 1.160" rounds. I'm not sure I could in CZ pistols, which I've read need much shorter COLs to function 100%.

As far as how they "feel" compared to the factory +P rounds, that's completely subjective.

alukban
February 11, 2009, 11:33 AM
Remington 124 gr JHP's on top of 4.6 gr of Unique go 1090 fps out of my Glock 26.

The factory Gold Dot ammo supposedly does about 1150 fps. The pic is from this Sunday, in the cold. I dunno, add a grain or two extra... :)

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x85/bankaydin/L1060397.jpg

Marlin 45 carbine
February 11, 2009, 02:28 PM
I don't have a chrono so can't give any numbers but a 124gr FMJ atop Power Pistol sure whacks a steel disc at 50 yds out of my Marlin Camp 9.

ArchAngelCD
February 12, 2009, 03:28 AM
Sorry I can't help you on this one. I only did work with the .38 Special +P and .357 Magnum rounds.

From what I'm told there is a lot of data available in the new Speer #14 for all the short barrel SD rounds. (although I know you were looking for more than that)

Good luck mixing up a batch of replica rounds.

creativetownsman
February 12, 2009, 01:13 PM
ArchAngelCD-

Thanks, I've benefitted greatly from prior posts by you and jfh re .38 +P GDHP replica loads. If those loads were the subject of this thread, this thread would not exist because those loads IMHO (I can speak to the .38 only) duplicate the feel and recoil of the factory cartridge, e.g. .38 spec
135gr GDHP +P.

Thanks for responding, though!

If you enjoyed reading about "Speer replica or clone load 124gr +P Gold Dot GDHP & Fed HST 147gr??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!