Most accurate target rifle out to 300 yards


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roc1
December 26, 2008, 12:02 AM
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First of all MERRY CHRISTMAS too all.I was thinking I already have a 243 and a 223 and 22-250.I have always heard the 308 is the most accurate out at long distances.I would like a very accurate target rifle for just plain fun and was wondering if the 308 is a lot more accurate than the calibers I already have?
Thanks for any input as
to caliber and brand of rifle
roc1

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Bartkowski
December 26, 2008, 12:08 AM
I don't think that the caliber has much to do with accuracy. It is more about the quality of the compenents used in the ammo, the barrel quality, and the ability of the shooter. The .308 won't be anymore accurate than the other guns you own unless you get a better gun and use better components.

Kind of Blued
December 26, 2008, 12:11 AM
There's very little accuracy inherent in a cartridge design itself. Accuracy can be improved by consistency through handloading or buying quality ammunition, but still, that isn't "cartridge design". Some cartridges have more potential for accuracy, but that potential is actuated by many things, mainly the barrel and the consistency of the gun's action.

So, to answer your question, no. The .308 is no more accurate than any of the cartridges you currently shoot, and neither is any other cartridge.

The most accurate .308 target rifle would cost you thousands of dollars. How much money do you have to spend on the rifle and the scope?

Or better yet, what do you have already? Any of those cartridges can be shot out to 300 yards very accurately.

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
December 26, 2008, 12:13 AM
Well, in a lot of cases you'll find that accuracy is relative to price. Are you asking about a target rifle, tactical rifle or a hunting rifle? Custom builder or brand name mass produced?

So, you might do yourself a little favor by being a bit more specific with your question. Within what price range, and under/over what weight?

I bet you'll get a bunch of Remington and Savage responses.

-Steve

Big Bill
December 26, 2008, 12:36 AM
The best gun $ for $ for accuracy is a Savage and for flat shooting get a .300 wsm, if you can stand the recoil.

CZ223
December 26, 2008, 12:53 AM
I think you would be better off narrowing things down a bit. The most accurate rifle at 300 yards is probably going to be something in 6mmBR and it may well cost several thousand dollars. The 308 can be quite accurate but, as the other poster said, it depends on many things including the rifle and the ammo. There are many good factory rifles out there right now that are capable of fantastic accuracy but still, they are not going to win any bench rest matches. I am a big Savage fan and I have shot many sub 1/2MOA groups with all of my model 12s. I have a new F-class in 6mm BR that I probably won't get to shoot till spring. You might try their f-class rifles in 6mmBR, 6.5x284 or the FTR in 308. For under a thousand you will have a rifle that will be competitive in F-class competition and be very impressive off the bench as well. I have read 2 seperate reviews on the 308 rifle that resulted in 5 shot groups of under 1 inch at 500 yards. That is pretty impressive.

rangerruck
December 26, 2008, 01:12 AM
if using factory ammo, i would say your 223 is the most accurate of your rifles, and will be more accurate than a 308 as well.

rangerruck
December 26, 2008, 01:17 AM
In other words, handloading, with a mild cartridge , is going to be your most accurate rifle/cartridge setup. a 20 tactical, 6br, 6ppc, and others like it, are going to be real accurate out to 300 yds, but you will have to pay for it. If looking for something real accurate, that is factory, and fires factory stuff accurate, that means you are looking for a factory accurate rifle, damn the ammo. About as accurate as you can get right now, for under 1000 bucks, is the Savage f class stuff , and their varminter line. A team savage dude recently pulled one out of the box, at a National competition, and pulled something like a .675 group, at something like 500 yds, and won the competition. Very impressive.

Afy
December 26, 2008, 07:54 AM
Custom weapons: 6PPC, 6XTC, 6BR, 30 BR, 22 BR

Off the shelf types: .260 Remington, 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmore will out perform .308 for accuracy.
I believe Tikka has T3 Varmint chambered for .260 Remington. Add a little handloaded Scenar based ammo and you will out perform most .308's etc.
Or get a Savage 110FP and rebarrel it with any of wide variety of barrels available.


Rangerruck: a .675 group at 500 yards is under .2 MOA. That is incredible.

plinky
December 26, 2008, 10:00 AM
A common factor of most inherantly accurate cartridges is a short squat case. Evidently, this helps with burning consistancy (accuracy) and efficiency. Efficiency is good because it means the same performance with less drama.

The .308 is generally considered an inherantly accurate design as factory rounds go and benchrest competition results seem to support this. Most custom bench cartridges are shorter with less powder for bore size than the .308. The newer 6.5mms go the other way sitting right between the .243 and 7mm-08, both fine rounds but not usually considered ideal as a bench round. The 6.5s do feature some nice sleek bullets (with less weight than a .30 cal) which is good for longer ranges.

I've come to believe that with some work and a little luck almost any cartridge can shoot "good" but if we are looking for general traits of a great shooting cartridge, think short, fat and not too overbore.

Any of the rifles you have should be capable of "good" accuracy with the right load. Good enough to satisfy you for informal target shooting. In fact good enough to dazzle casual shooters. I think only in competition does cartridge design become a real factor.

Most accurate rifle I've ever shot was a Rem 40X in .22/250. It goes against the traits that I listed but it would shoot around .25" with the right load which happened to be pretty warm. With any old ammo it was nothing special.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 26, 2008, 10:38 AM
Well, it depends on whether you are talking custom, semi-custom, or factory. I'll assume you are not talking about custom rifles. The Accuracy International rifles are certainly among the most accurate rifles from the factory - I don't know if you'd call these semi-custom or just factory. Be prepared to drop several thousand.

http://www.accuracyinternational.com/

Steyr rifles and Sako rifles tend to be extremely accurate.

As for poor man's rifles, Savage is good.

Chambering is an entirely different subject.

USSR
December 26, 2008, 04:32 PM
roc1,

Cartridges are NOT inherently accurate. With a factory rifle, a rifle chambered for any of the 3 cartridges you listed may or may not be accurate; it's a crap shoot. A particular rifle may like a certain weight bullet or a certain brand of factory ammo. A well built rifle using a cartridge designed 117 years ago (6.5x55) or 102 years ago (.30-06) will be more accurate than a shoddily built rifle using a more modern inherently accurate cartridge. Buy the best built rifle you can, in a chambering that fits your needs.

Don

Cypress
December 26, 2008, 05:13 PM
I have a Savage with a Shilen 300wsm barrel and Choate stock for sale if your gonna be in NE Texas any time soon. PM me if interested! Price is considerably less than you could build it for.

Javelin
December 26, 2008, 05:34 PM
Benchgun with 6mm BR rounds and a person who knows how to shoot.

:)

Float Pilot
December 26, 2008, 06:12 PM
Swede CG 63 or CG 80 for iron sights. In 6.5 x55 Swede of course.


Cartridges are NOT inherently accurate.
Worms,,,, can,,,,. opener....

browningguy
December 26, 2008, 06:24 PM
No, a .308 is not the most accurate. At 300 yards any of the cartridges you mentioned will do a good job. I shoot a Savage 12 FV in .243 which is a very good gun with handloads.

For a 300 yard gun with factory ammo then you would be better off with a .223 or .308 as match ammo is readily available without handloading and I would suggest a Savage 12 FV in .223 ($499 locally) or the 12 F-TR ($900 locally) in .308. Or if you want to put all the high dollar rifles to shame get a Savage F class in 6.5-284 and go win matches. A stock 12 F-TR won the long range Nationals last year by the way, among the very few times a factory gun has ever won.

Furncliff
December 26, 2008, 06:26 PM
Instead of a new rifle/caliber, consider a good reloading set up for your three caliber's all of which will produce excellent accuracy for the mid range you are asking about. There's a lot to be said for cooking up your own recipes. Consistent, precise hand loads in those three calibers will amaze you.

ar10
December 26, 2008, 08:10 PM
if using factory ammo, i would say your 223 is the most accurate of your rifles, and will be more accurate than a 308 as well.

That's odd. I work at a range that has one of the very few 300yd ranges and I pick up a lot of brass because I reload my own. The large caliber's in 30 caliber outnumber 22X about 100 to 1. I see a lot of .223 shooters at the 100yd and 150ft ranges but never at the 300yd or even the 200yd ranges.
It just seems that .223 is pretty light at longer ranges especially in less than desirable weather conditions.

USSR
December 26, 2008, 09:14 PM
Or if you want to put all the high dollar rifles to shame get a Savage F class in 6.5-284 and go win matches.

Oh, were it that easy.:rolleyes:

Don

Martyk
December 26, 2008, 09:36 PM
AR10, if you don't mind me asking, is the range you're talking about in NJ?

rangerruck
December 26, 2008, 10:08 PM
remember, we are limiting our distance to 300m. that is why I did not include the big 6's and 6.5's or even any 30 cals, allthough the 30 br is a pretty nice choice here as well...

plinky
December 26, 2008, 10:29 PM
Instead of a new rifle/caliber, consider a good reloading set up for your three caliber's all of which will produce excellent accuracy for the mid range you are asking about. There's a lot to be said for cooking up your own recipes. Consistent, precise hand loads in those three calibers will amaze you.

+1

I don't envy anyone trying to do good shooting with factory ammo. It's crap shoot and you may go broke before you find your load. With no guarantee that you'll find that exact load again.

Shawnee
December 26, 2008, 10:30 PM
Assuming you want a regular factory rifle I would say get a Remington 700 VLS in .243.

:cool:

Ohio Gun Guy
December 26, 2008, 10:37 PM
On the surface the Original Posters question is simple. However as you read the replies, you see how complicated shooting accurately at some distance can be. This can get very complicated....:scrutiny:

Here is my take on it:
If someone is asking this, then they are likely not looking for a rifle of more than 500 - 600 dollars; and they likely do not already reload I.M.O.. Generally you build up an advanced level in any hobby. When you become advanced; you form your own, opinions, skills, preferences, & knowledge and wouldn't be asking....:confused:

Here's the question I think the OP asked. Which caliber of "factory" gun should I buy to shoot "factory" loadings at targets out to 300 yds. Someone here should be able to report on how well a model XYZ with a XX" barrel & XX Twist, shoots a XX grain, some manufacturer standard velocity hunting round. (That is the minimum level of detail IMO, it gets much more complicated as many here know, most better than I):o

My short answer would have been, a Savage or Remington .308 (Or a .30-06) and try several brands of "off the shelf" rounds to see what it likes, knowing that different ammunition can make a big difference! :)

jpwilly
December 27, 2008, 12:27 AM
Savage, Remington, Tikka, Howa, Weatherby, etc in 223 or 308 with a good heavy barrel should shoot little groups all day. You also need a decent rest, bright clear optics that hold zero, and good match grade ammo.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 27, 2008, 12:35 AM
Dudes. The OP did NOT place any price restrictions. The recommendations should be AI, Blaser, Steyr SSG, etc., maybe FN, Sako. Not Savage & Remington & Howa. WE cannot afford these, but apparently HE can. :)

ar10
December 27, 2008, 12:36 AM
AR10, if you don't mind me asking, is the range you're talking about in NJ?
Middle of Central OH.

A 223 or 308 in a good heavy barreled rifle will shoot little groups all day. You also need a good rest, good optics, and good ammo.


I know the newer versions of the Civil War rifles had an accurate range of 300yd, and prior to that, 1837, or around that period the Afghanistan tribes were getting 100yd kills with flint lock's. They had no rests, good ammo, or optics. Drove the British and Russians nuts.
And some of those rifles are still around.

R.W.Dale
December 27, 2008, 12:41 AM
I know the newer versions of the Civil War rifles had an accurate range of 300yd, and prior to that, 1837, or around that period the Afghanistan tribes were getting 100yd kills with flint lock's. They had no rests, good ammo, or optics. Drove the British and Russians nuts.
And some of those rifles are still around.

There's a huge difference in hitting something the size of a person once vs shooting what someone would even call the most mediocre groups at extended ranges.

This thread is titled "most accurate" not "hit sumpin the size of a man":rolleyes:

browningguy
December 27, 2008, 01:33 AM
Oh, were it that easy.

Ok, and add 10-15 years practice.

ReadyontheRight
December 27, 2008, 01:40 AM
The .223 seems to win all the competitions these days. Even out to 1K yards with the big, long bullets you need to insert single-fire.

Are we talking one shot, or 20 shots within 60 seconds? Much easier target acquisition with a .223 than a .308.

No guarantees, however, what that little .22 round will do to any non-paper target at those ranges. It's all a trade-off.

ReadyontheRight
December 27, 2008, 01:51 AM
For what it's worth...6mmPPC is supposed to be the "most accurate" round out there.

I have neither the interest, rifle, patience nor money to confirm this hypothesis.

I do know that the .308 is not going to get you much more - accuracy-wise - at 300 yards than what you already have. .308 WILL shine at longer ranges and it will also turn "cover" into "concealment" faster than your current options if the need ever arises (and I pray it does not) :) .

green3845
December 27, 2008, 08:45 AM
I would respectfully disagree with the gentleman about cartridge design not having an effect on accuracy.

50 years of use and development in benchrest competition has shown that a few cartridge design parameters are conducive to accuracy. The development of the 6 PPC, and it's dominance in benchrest competition is the prime example. When Mike Walker of Remington decided to try and unseat the 6 PPC as "the" benchrest cartridge, he basically came up with a bigger 6PPC, the 6BR. Short, realtively fat cartridges, with a long neck and shoulder angle that tends to keep most of the combustion turbulence in the case have been proven for almost 35 years to be dominant in benchrest competition, where pure accuracy is the only requirement.

In High Power across the course competition,(200,300 and 600), where ballistics, ( wind deflection), is almost as important as pure accuracy, the 308 is a strong contender, as is the 6XC, 6BR and the .223.

In High Power Long Range competition, ( 600-1000 yards), the ballistic abilities of the cartridge become even more important. At the long line, the 308, 6XC,.243, .243 AI and the 6.5-284 are popular.

In 300 Meter competition, the 6BR rules.

In 1000 benchrest, where rifle weight is of no concern, big over bore magnums rule, even though IIRC, the current world record for group size is held by a 6BR.

Over the last 20 years, National High Power championships have been won with several calibers---308, 243, 6.5-308, 7mm-08, 22-250 and 6mm Hagar.

Almost any caliber can shoot accurately with the right equipment and reloading skills, but for pure accuracy, read Precision Reloading or Benchrest.com and take tips from our Benchrest brethren. Most of us aren't concerend with a sub .200" group size, but if you are, the 6PPC is the current king of the hill, and has been for 30 years.

Lloyd Smale
December 27, 2008, 08:58 AM
well it may not be more accurate a 308 will usually hold its accuracy out to farther distances. The heavier bullets will allways be less effected by wind. I will also say this about the 308. It may not be any more accurate then the others but it certainly isnt any less accurate either.

Pokyman
December 27, 2008, 11:31 AM
Without knowing what exactly your intended use of this rifle is, it is hard to give a good recommendation.
If your shooting will be off the bench or paper punching, then there are a lot of excellent calibers available. If this is what you will be doing, then why put up with the recoil of a 30 cal.? There are quite a few smaller cartridges that will do what a 308 will do out to 300 yds. and not punish you.
If you want good info on what cartridge to use, find out what the competition shooters are using. If you reload, you will find more good cartridges than you care to hear about. If you do not reload, there will still be several calibers in which factory ammo is available. By checking out what serious competitors use you will find calibers in which quality components are available. You will also find calibers that are relatively easy to develop an accurate load for.

ar10
December 27, 2008, 11:34 AM
There's a huge difference in hitting something the size of a person once vs shooting what someone would even call the most mediocre groups at extended ranges.

This thread is titled "most accurate" not "hit sumpin the size of a man"

I would agree up to a point. I'm definitely not a ballistics expert, but I do have to be present during the competitions at our local range. The best accurate shots come from the shooters with the 308's with one guy shooting a 7mm magnum. (this guy works for the feds and is some kind of sniper I think). The shooters using the .223's did the poorest, mainly because of the winds and wind gusts. They had absolutely no problems at the 100yd mark but when they moved out the 200 then 300yd mark the shots started to get further apart.
The range also has a few members that shoot percussion rifles that do very well at 100, 200, and 300yds from bench rest. They don't button hole like the expensive big guns but they do get into the 6" bull most of the time.
The point is accuracy has less to do with rifle/handgun than it does with person shooting. I've seen shooters come out with 3,4,or 5 different guns decked out with about every gadget they could put on the gun and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, then blame the gun a junk. :banghead:

roc1
December 27, 2008, 12:37 PM
Thanks for all the input.I do reload I just keep hearing from all my gunshop junkies that hang out the same place about how good the 308 is just wondering is it all that much better than my very accurate bull barrel savage in 22-250 or my wonderful deer rifle my CZ 550 in 243?
Thanks
roc1

scythefwd
December 27, 2008, 02:31 PM
I hear tell that the .338 Lapua holds the record for tightest group at 1k yards. It also kicks like a shotgun when shooting from the prone so many people are not able to shoot it much. There is a user here (Krochus, spelled something like that) that has a 7.62 X 39 that will do .33 MOA at 100y, but you are talking a little further than that. Any of your rifles are ok at that distance, but those calibers slow down at 300y and can be affected by wind more at the intermediate distances (300-500y). I have personally seen a .223 *5.56 nato acutally* move over a foot due to wind while shooting at 300m. The 7mm 08 is capable at the distances you are shooting, as well as the 30-06, .308, and a ton of other rounds if you are shooting out of a good rifle. You also didn't mention if you plan on using irons or a scope. Good luck and have fun.

Howard Roark
December 27, 2008, 03:49 PM
The question is what is the most accurate target rifle to 300 yards? One has to look only to the IBS or the NBRSA for the rifles that are winners. 6PPC and 6BR in a variety of custom actions dominate. There are no .308, 22-250 or 220 Swifts making records.

camies
December 27, 2008, 04:50 PM
Nice modern rifles but if you want style find an Enfield Enforcer L39A1 7.62mm.
Ranges up to 300 yards is a mite close for the Enfield action but my average was 6" on a still day.
I made 11" groups at 600 yards and 17" at 900.
Cost, 80.00 plus a new barrel 130.00.
Don't use anything but "green spot" ammo.

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