Europe is Wierd Reloading 9mm and 7.62x39


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Afy
December 26, 2008, 10:52 AM
The arms laws have categorized arms into categories 1-8.
Both 9mm and 7.62x39 fall under Cat 1 weapons, so one needs special permits for these. Well since my permits should be here early next year... was looking at becoming proactive and gearing up to load for these calibers.

However:

7.62x39 S&B Surplus is 119 Euro's/1000
and 9 MM Baranaul (nickle) Or Fiochi 9mm (Teflon) can be had for the same price per 1000 as well.

The cost of 100 Speer 124 gr FMJ's is 17.90 Euros :uhoh:
Factory ammo is cheaper than reloaded... :eek:

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armoredman
December 26, 2008, 10:58 AM
I have to say, A), I am glad you can get those firearms in those calibers, B) what is a Cat 1 weapon? And C), nice prices on ammo!
I reload 9mm and 7.62x39mm for two reasons, spotty supply in a small town, and I love handloading.
PS, only permit I needed was a drivers license for ID, and a clean record.
Here's one 9mm and 7.62x39mm.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/basicload.jpg

ReloaderFred
December 26, 2008, 11:05 AM
The shipping is driving up the costs for American products in Europe.

I just checked the official exchange rate, and 119.00 Euro's equals $167.213 U.S. That's still not a bad price.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Afy
December 26, 2008, 11:15 AM
Here in France there are 8 Categories of Firearms and Explosives.

Cat 1: All so called war calibers. So .308, 7.62x39, 8x57, 9 MM para, .223 etc.
Cat 2 and 3 are essentially certain types of explovsives etc.
Cat 4: Non war caliber semi-autos, and hand guns.
Cat 5: Hunting Weapons: Includes .338 Lapua (wierdly), bolt guns, drillings etc. No hand guns no war calibers.
Cat 6: Cross Bows and air guns with a power of over 10 joules. Paint Ball guns.
Cat 7: .22 lr rifles (hand guns are cat 4 as are semi autos), shot guns.
Cat 8: Black Powder Replicas (Cap and ball revolvers), cap and ball rifles, etc. And any weapon over 100 years old. So if you had a machine gun from 1907 it falls under this.

For everything other than category 8 you require membership to a shooting club, and/or a hunting permit. For catgeory 1 and 4 there is additional paperwork, and you need to have a non moveable safe to store the weapons. Plus you need to have undergone training to use hand guns etc at a shooting club. There is a special booklet for this, and the process before applying for the cat 1 and 4 permits takes 6-8 months. Three stamps in the book with an interval of two months minimum, and at least 12 range visits recorded. You also need a bill for a safe, and pictures of the said safe installed. The cops might even make a visit to the house to verify the safe.

Thanks to this... the pricing is all wierd. A cap and ball Walker will set you back 600 Euros, while a Glock 17 is 550 NIB.
A Tikka T-3 Varmint will set you back 1400 Euros, while a Izmash or CZ AK will set you back 450.
A box of .222 Remington Ammo is 25 Euros per 20, while .223 is 7.50.

armoredman
December 26, 2008, 08:21 PM
I am so sorry, what a pain. BUT, with the least restriction beong black powder, I could understand the pricing. I wanna gun NOW to defend my chateau, and I don't want to wait 8 months to buy a G-rock, I'll get an 1858 Remington tonight.

33rowdy
December 26, 2008, 09:47 PM
AFY Sorry but I got to ask...
With all of the "junk" (Junk is a light word of what us Americans would use) you have listed above, do you feel that your country is my secure than ours? Like; Theft, robbery, or some Santa won't soot yea or something?

Eagles6
December 27, 2008, 01:21 AM
armoredman,
what is the ak you have pictured?

armoredman
December 27, 2008, 02:01 AM
CZ vZ-58. Not an AK. :)

barman
December 27, 2008, 05:15 AM
Hi Afy,

cap and ball Walker will set you back 600 Euros

Armurerie Gilles (in Flers, Normandy) has it listed for 365 euros.

http://www.armurerie-gilles.com/fiche.php?id_article=108&id_categ=175&categ_inter=175

With all of the "junk" (Junk is a light word of what us Americans would use) you have listed above, do you feel that your country is my secure than ours? Like; Theft, robbery, or some Santa won't soot yea or something?

As a Frenchman, I can say that you rarely hear about shootings. Sure, they do happen, but probably way less than in other countries. Now, France is very sparsely populated in the countryside, and most people in the real "rural" areas have at least a shotgun stashed somewhere.

Afy
December 27, 2008, 06:38 AM
Barman,

I bought mine from a shop in Auxerre. But thank you... I do shop at Gilles, Tir-Occitan, Tecmagex et FMR as well.
Your comment about the 'rural' areas is right on.

33Rowdy:
Additional facts... until 1998 I think full auto weapons were completely legal. Until a couple of years ago one didnt have to declare Category 7 wepons either.
Moreover the most common gun crime is sucide unfortunately.
The 'junk' is not as bad as it seems. I know in MA it was a lot more difficult to get a permit.
Getting club membership is pretty much about filling in a form, presenting ID and paying the dues. You're good to go from there.
The only really annoying part of French gun laws, and realities is the limitation of powders to VV and Tubal, and the lack of high quality barrels in particular. Limited to Lothar Walther and Border (Armeca).

moosehunt
December 27, 2008, 08:09 PM
Well, if it makes you feel any better (which I doubt), it's going to be a lot worse than that here in the US in a very short time.

barman
December 29, 2008, 06:58 AM
until 1998 I think full auto weapons were completely legal

1995... a sad year for gun owners in France:

Complete ban of full-auto firearms and suppression of "self-defense" as a reason to buy a handgun.

Afy
December 29, 2008, 08:21 AM
The other great thing about ranges in France... most have bar's as well. :):)

barman
December 29, 2008, 05:41 PM
Since I'm shooting on a friend's private range, we don't need any bar! We have our own stuff! :D
The range I used to go to in the past was no fun at all. Everybody was into a sort of "athlete" mentality, with competition always in mind. There was simply no space for what got me interested in the first place: enjoyment.

Seafarer12
December 29, 2008, 06:21 PM
I would be shooting a lot more black powder guns if I lived in France. It would also give me the reason to drop 1k on an original 1892 Winchester.

Afy
December 30, 2008, 01:22 AM
Seafarer

We do shoot a lot of black powder. A couple of freinds and I even like to shoot the Walker at 100 meters with as much podwer as we can stuff in the chambers. However hitting the target is a whole different ball game.

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