Couple of N Frame Questions


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almostfree
December 26, 2008, 01:14 PM
Over the last few years I have been growingly addicted to pre-lock smith N frames. I picked up a 27-2 with a 6" barrel about four months ago. Because I've been out of town, it's only been to the range three times.

Well today, I was having problems single action and double action with the hammer "locking" halfway through the cycle and not being able to finish the trigger pull or cocking the hammer to single. Is this operator error, some simple fix, or something for a gunsmith?

I have put about 150 rounds through it in the past two days without cleaning yet. Is it possible that the dirty cylinder face is causing it to hang up on the forcing cone? I could clean it and try it again, but I don't want to put any more rounds through it if it's a gunsmith problem.

Second problem (or lack therof depending on your perspective), today at the range I bought a 57-1 in nickel with a 6" barrel off of a guy who had not shot more than handful of times over the last twenty plus years. I got it for $400 because he had used a solvent that caused a little of the nickel to come off of the cylinder. I have pretty much ruled out refinishing because it's otherwise in perfect shape. Is there anything extra I should do to protect the exposed metal besides apply oil and/or grease? (Yes I will get pictures of it soon)

It came with rubber grips, but I replaced those.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x157/ccsteffler/57-1-1.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x157/ccsteffler/57-1-2.jpg

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aHFo3
December 26, 2008, 01:35 PM
I have a 10-3 that had some corrosion on the cylinder, so I had just the cylinder reblued...would that work with nickel? I don't know if matching would be an issue, but it's sure more cost effective.

Old Fuff
December 26, 2008, 01:48 PM
On the cocking problem: Remove the stocks and see if the mainspring strain screw might have backed out. If that isn't the answer, open the cylinder, hold the cylinder latch thumbpiece fully rearward, and see if you can cock the hammer. If so the issue is something in the cylinder assembly. If this isn't it, someone will have to remove the sideplate (no, you don't pry it off) and look inside to see what's going on - or not as the case may be.

On the model 57: I would contact S&W and see what it might cost to have just the cylinder refinished.

Black Knight
December 26, 2008, 03:08 PM
On the 57 with the nickle flaking problem I would not use Hoppes on it. Hoppes does have a way of getting under the nickle and causes it to flake. Use some other solvent. On the 27 I would say give a good cleaning. You may have to take the sideplate off and flush the insides to remove any grit that may have gotten inside. Do not use WD-40 it will gum it up.

sumoj275
December 29, 2008, 01:51 AM
I would think that you could get the cylinder refinished and not have to do the whole gun. BTW, I just picked up a 27 with a 5" brl. I think that is my favorite .357 mag now--even over the 4" Python I have.

Johnboy53
December 29, 2008, 05:31 PM
Have the cylinder refinished by the factory, you will be surprised.

almostfree
December 29, 2008, 05:46 PM
BTW, I just picked up a 27 with a 5" brl

I have one on the way!

Have the cylinder refinished by the factory, you will be surprised.

That's probably the route I will go. I am not really a fan of nickel, but that was trumped by my desire for a 57 to replace the 4" blued 57 no dash that I stupidly let go of when my priorities were elsewhere.

SaxonPig
December 29, 2008, 06:19 PM
I had a Colt cylinder plated by Accurate Plating (in FL at the time, no idea if in same location) and another reblued by S&W and both cost $60. Very reasonable and both look great.

krs
December 29, 2008, 07:20 PM
Accurate Plating is in Alabama now, and still going gangbusters.

I had to have a 1962 colt National Match refinished by someone, normally something I'd avoid on a pistol like that but they did a beautiful job such that I doubt any but the most seasoned collector could detect that it had been done.

They can easily fix up your cylinder....http://www.apwcogan.com/Refinishing.htm

Jim K
December 29, 2008, 08:26 PM
A plating shop can remove the plating the same way it was put on, electrically. Then you can have the gun blued if that is your preference.

I have done a couple that way and it worked out well, with just a minimum of polishing after the nickel plate was removed.

Jim

StrawHat
December 31, 2008, 08:52 AM
What was alluded to in one of the answers needs to be explained a bit more.

It was mentioned not to use Hoppe's on your nickled revolver. This is true, but do not use any cleaner with ammonia in it on any nickel plated firearm. Nickel is a porous plating and is laid down over a base coat of copper. Ammonia eats copper, (this is why you use an ammonia based cleaner in rifles that shoot jacketed bullets), the nickel "leaks" the ammonia to the base coat and the base coat is dissolved. With nothing to grab on to, the nickel starts peeling off.

You can replate or not but do not use ammonia based cleaners on nickel plated guns.

almostfree
December 31, 2008, 06:08 PM
Good to know, being as this is my first nickel firearm. I'll bet that is why the cylinder is the way it is currently.

Bill B.
December 31, 2008, 08:30 PM
Have the cylinder refinished by the factory

I may be wrong on this but I don't think Smith & Wesson will renickel anything currently. Most on the S&W forum seem to be using Ford's for renickel work.

Oro
January 2, 2009, 02:57 AM
I'll bet that is why the cylinder is the way it is currently.

ccsteffler: Three things that might be of use:

1) Note that unless the finish is a cheap aftermarket nickel finish, that is NOT the reason the cylinder has flaked.

Hoppes will attack copper, and cause flaking. But this is not a technique of nickel plating ever employed by S&W (I have seen a letter from the factory historian attesting to this). The flaking is likely because of a defect in the original process, but NOT because of Hoppes (unless the finish is, indeed a cheap aftermarket one, which it does not appear to be). This is a common internet gun forum "myth" that gets handed around constantly, but the facts are a bit more complicated.

2) I would follow Old Fluff's advice on the plating. You can check with S&W - while many people do use Ford's and APW (Accurate, now in AL, formerly Safety Harbor, FL), the factory does excellent work, also. I have used both APW and S&W and they are excellent. No experience with Ford's, but have seen outstanding work of theirs. Shipping will also be affordable since you would be sending only a cylinder, not a gun, in shipment so you can save those transfer fees.

3) The 57 will feel much better when you shoot it if you put N frame grips on it - those are very attractive smooth K frame targets. But the exposed strap at the rear will slap your hand badly with .41 magnum rounds!

41magsnub
January 2, 2009, 03:09 AM
3) The 57 will feel much better when you shoot it if you put N frame grips on it - those are very attractive smooth K frame targets. But the exposed strap at the rear will slap your hand badly with .41 magnum rounds!

I only made it to the range twice before replacing the grips on my .41. Before the good grips it went bang! ouch! %#$%^@% bang! ouch! %$#@%$#@% and all I was doing is teaching myself bad habits it stung so much.

Deanimator
January 2, 2009, 09:14 AM
Make sure that the ejector rod isn't unwinding. The first night I shot in my club's DA revolver league, AT LEAST five guns tied up for that reason, including mine.

krs
January 2, 2009, 01:57 PM
I may be wrong on this but I don't think Smith & Wesson will renickel anything currently. Most on the S&W forum seem to be using Ford's for renickel work

You might be right, Bill, but I do know of a guy who was very unhappy with the finish work on his brand new nickled Model 29 Classic and sent it back. S&W did make him happy finally, although it took repolishing many rough areas and then replating the whole gun.

They could have sent it out I guess, consideriing the length of time that passed before he got it back.

almostfree
January 2, 2009, 03:22 PM
3) The 57 will feel much better when you shoot it if you put N frame grips on it - those are very attractive smooth K frame targets. But the exposed strap at the rear will slap your hand badly with .41 magnum rounds!

I'm confused. I thought those were N frame target grips. They came off of a Pre-27 that had been converted to .45 ACP (Horrible I know). Are you saying that someone modified K frame targets to fit the N frame and the fit isn't that good? They seemed to fit the Pre-27 pretty well. When I look closely at the pictures, I can see how the grips don't seem to fit the frame at the top.

EDIT: I am glad you caught that. I am quite sure you are right that they were K frame grips made to fit an N frame. Now they don't properly fit either. I guess it's the trash pile for them.

StrawHat
January 3, 2009, 07:26 AM
They came off of a Pre-27 that had been converted to .45 ACP

I would like to see some photos of that revolver!

almostfree
January 3, 2009, 10:16 AM
Well, it's butchery, but it's not a bad shooter.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x157/ccsteffler/IMG_0640.jpg

StrawHat
January 8, 2009, 06:23 AM
Hoppes will attack copper, and cause flaking. But this is not a technique of nickel plating ever employed by S&W (I have seen a letter from the factory historian attesting to this). The flaking is likely because of a defect in the original process, but NOT because of Hoppes (unless the finish is, indeed a cheap aftermarket one, which it does not appear to be). This is a common internet gun forum "myth" that gets handed around constantly, but the facts are a bit more complicated.

I didn't know S&W used a different method to plate their firearms. Most nickle plating is done over copper.

Of course that was before the EPA got involved, which is why there are so few places left that will nickel plate anything.

As for it being an internet myth, that one brought a smile to me. If it is a myth, it has been around long before the internet. I first heard of it while attending a NRA convention and heard it from some of the old gunwriters of my day.

ccsteffler, Maybe not butchery, but I was hoping the reworked M27 involed a new cylinder and rebored barrel. I have a 4" M28-2 I did that way. Made into a nice light 45 ACP revolver.

Oro
January 8, 2009, 09:15 AM
My apologies if I wasn't clear/didn't say it straight -

1) Hoppes WILL eat up some nickel plated firearms - that is indeed not an internet myth, StrawHat. BUT:

2) those are NOT S&W or Colt factory pieces. Those were never made with copper underneath the nickel plate.

So for the Hoppes to chew up your nickel, it needs to be a less-rigorously done foreign jobbie or cheaper nickel-job, AND you need a nick in the nickel to let the hoppes get through it to attack the copper underneath. If the nickel is all intact, the hoppes can't get underneath to start eating at the substrate.

When information about how different plating techniques were done, it was common to say that hoppes would eat up nickel, but it's only some types of nickel application techniques. If I had a nickeled foreign gun or aftermarket nickel job, I indeed would keep Hoppes away from it and use something like Ed's Red as a bore cleaner.

David E
January 8, 2009, 10:14 AM
Colt had copper underneath the nickel. I remember an old Trooper that had worn thru to the copper layer.

David E
January 8, 2009, 10:15 AM
Back to the original problem: You say the hammer is catching 1/2 way thru during cocking or during firing?

If during cocking, check under the ejector star and brush out any unburnt powder residue.

.

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