I thought only Glocks Kaboom


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PhillyGlocker
December 26, 2008, 05:09 PM
Better not buy another HK, 1911, XD, revolver or Sig then either. :rolleyes:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285230

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possum
December 26, 2008, 06:49 PM
oh those are some awesome pics, i guess i will have to get rid of all my handguns.

Jim K
December 26, 2008, 07:05 PM
The most common causes of true blowups are improperly loaded cartridges and bore obstructions. Those can and do happen regardless of the gun make and there is no reasonable way a manufacturer can prevent them. (The S&W revolver blowup is characteristic of an overload or use of the wrong powder.)

Other similar problems, like out-of-battery firing, or bursting of an unsupported case may be due to a defect in the gun or in its design, but those are much less common.

Jim

CZF
December 26, 2008, 08:13 PM
I've only known of one CZ to kaboom.

A bad factory round in .40.

The gun held together but the mag fell out and the plastic grips cracked. No other damage to the 75B was reported.

The Lone Haranguer
December 26, 2008, 08:24 PM
I've only known of one CZ to kaboom.

A bad factory round in .40.

The gun held together but the mag fell out and the plastic grips cracked. No other damage to the 75B was reported.

There is a lot to be said for a steel frame. For all the other attributes of polymer frames, they will not survive a "KB" if you have one.

Marcus L.
December 27, 2008, 01:00 PM
Lots of out of spec reloads used there. Just about any pistol will KB with that. I would like to add that the only pistol in that thread that was up and running again with only a few cheap parts replaced was the Sig. ;)

JohnBT
December 27, 2008, 01:13 PM
"I thought only Glocks Kaboom"

I'll bet you feel better now that you've discovered your Glocks aren't alone.

;)

JT

zammyman
December 27, 2008, 01:28 PM
Anybody have any input on this?

"One last cause of "blowups:" The simple chambering and rechambering of a cartridge does push the bullet back into its case. Hirtenberg Ammunition Company of Austria (at the request of GLOCK, Inc.) determined that, with a .40 caliber cartridge, pushing the bullet back into the case 1/10 of an inch DOUBLED the chamber pressure. This is higher than a proof load. This "push back" can occur with but one chambering since it is dependent on how well the case was crimped or sealed to the bullet. How many of us regularly chamber and rechamber the first two rounds of our carry loads? (Also, this chambering and ejecting chews up the case rim, which can cause a malfunction. If you are limited to how much ammo you are issued, after cycling the first two rounds a few times, strip the magazine and load these two rounds first so they are the last up in the stick."

Marcus L.
December 27, 2008, 06:50 PM
zammyman,

I've never heard this quote that you pasted from the Gun Zone anywhere else except from the Gun Zone. It might be true, then again it might not be. I haven't been over there in a while, but if my memory serves me correctly the author of the site has put up incorrect information on some subjects in the past.

With regard to .40S&W setbacks, it has the largest crimping surface area of all of the commonly encountered service calibers and is less likely to have a setback versus the other calibers. It has also had the rear of the case beefed up from past problems. Nowdays, the modern .40 is just as safe to use as any of the other service calibers and KBs are MUCH more likely a result of improper loading from handloaders.

PhillyGlocker
December 28, 2008, 07:47 AM
"I thought only Glocks Kaboom"
I'll bet you feel better now that you've discovered your Glocks aren't alone.


No doubt. I also see a lot of people haven't responded to the thread because they don't want to see the truth. Maybe this will keep the threader hoppers from going around spreading nonsense. Glock remains on the hips of the majority of LEO's for a reason.

LTB15J
December 28, 2008, 08:15 AM
lol.. comparing a KB'ed glock to a revolver.. classy


http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/Powder_Burn/SupportedandNonSupportedChambers.jpg

jon_in_wv
December 28, 2008, 09:47 AM
Its about chamber dimensions and case support. Glock doesn't think supporting the case is necessary so they are more LIKELY to kaboom and it seems clear they more often DO than other makes. Its the Glock fanboys who buy Glocks "perfection" hype and refuse to admit a design flaw NOT the rest of us who fail to admit that it could happen to all firearms under the right conditions. Shall we seem how many pics of KABOOMED Glocks we can find?? I bet I'll win.
BTW, I would never own a Glock in any caliber other than 9mm. I've seem WAY to many 40 and 45 Glock blown up to risk my fingers. You would have to be insane to shoot a 357 SIG in a Glock. Not unless you like nicknames like "Lefty" or "Stumpy".

PhillyGlocker
December 28, 2008, 11:36 AM
Its about chamber dimensions and case support. Glock doesn't think supporting the case is necessary so they are more LIKELY to kaboom and it seems clear they more often DO than other makes. Its the Glock fanboys who buy Glocks "perfection" hype and refuse to admit a design flaw NOT the rest of us who fail to admit that it could happen to all firearms under the right conditions. Shall we seem how many pics of KABOOMED Glocks we can find?? I bet I'll win.
BTW, I would never own a Glock in any caliber other than 9mm. I've seem WAY to many 40 and 45 Glock blown up to risk my fingers. You would have to be insane to shoot a 357 SIG in a Glock. Not unless you like nicknames like "Lefty" or "Stumpy".
That's because Glocks are everywhere. However, other guns Kaboom, which mean the gun has a design flaw, correct?

I now shoot the G32 regurlarly. No issues with the .357 round.

The more you don't buy .357 Glocks, the more that will be available for me.

Glocks have set a new standard in firearms, so let's not forget it. :)

Drail
December 28, 2008, 11:59 AM
A number of things can cause a Kboom. Adding more things like unsupported cases, barrels that will not tolerate lead buildup, designs that allow firing out of battery does not help reduce your chances. If you like a top heavy plastic framed gun with those features I guess it's your choice. Calling it "perfection" is simply marketing to folks who do not understand weapon design. But if you like it go for it.

22lr
December 28, 2008, 12:06 PM
Any gun can blow up. And I still extremely dislike Glocks so.....

Glock a new standard.
Um well ok they make a plastic pistol that still cant hang out with the real ones (LOL, just had to say that). Also there grips feel really bad in my hand so ill stick with my trusty ole S&W 5906. But they are way behind the times when it comes to grips.:evil:

BTW: just my own 2 cents and yes ive shot a lot of Glocks, but I have yet to find one that fits my hand properly.

PhillyGlocker
December 28, 2008, 12:32 PM
Any gun can blow up. And I still extremely dislike Glocks so.....

Glock a new standard.
Um well ok they make a plastic pistol that still cant hang out with the real ones (LOL, just had to say that). Also there grips feel really bad in my hand so ill stick with my trusty ole S&W 5906. But they are way behind the times when it comes to grips.

BTW: just my own 2 cents and yes ive shot a lot of Glocks, but I have yet to find one that fits my hand properly.
Glock haters find all kinds of reasons not to like them, but the fact is they perform flawlessy 9.9999% of the time, and when there is an issue it almost always ammo related. As I stated, the more people that hate them, the more that remain for us that absolutely love them. Glock is the top dog in handguns right now, and I truly don't believe anyone can dispute that based on the majority of LEO's and civilians that carry them.

The End!

jon_in_wv
December 28, 2008, 01:10 PM
but the fact is they perform flawlessy 9.9999% of the time,

WOW Thats almost 10 PERCENT!! NO WONDER YOU LIKE THEM!!

Personally I think most Glocks perform even better than that. In fact Glocks are some of the best weapons out there. It doesn't change the fact they don't support the casings properly and they are more prone to fire out of battery more than the competition. These are two design flaws that should have been corrected years ago but Glock and the Glockers just blame everything but the weapon every time something happens. There was a recent thread where a guy had a FTE with a Glock and there was at least 20 posts about how he sissy wristed it, the ammo was bad, he didn't clean it right, etc....etc..... If it was any other weapon people would have said, "Its a new weapon. Keep shooting it will be fine. If you continue to have problems keep track of which magazine caused it and it could be caused by a bad mag." BUT of course, Glocks NEVER have bad mags do they so that would be stupid advice for a Glock wouldn't it? The fact of the matter is Glocks are a device like any other that can and do fail. Its Glocks own arrogance that has stopped it from becoming an even better weapon. SIGs, S&Ws, HKs, are all making great weapons and the the Glocks have nothing to brag about that would make it better than any of those. If you choose to shoot Glocks more power to you but the Glock perfection, never jams, KABOOMS are the users fault, Super laser accurate, torture test proven, and everything else is just junk, just gets a little old. If people could be intellectually honest instead of just fanboys you might get a better response to a flame inducing thread like this one.

I've shot Glocks before and they shot fine. I've seen them fail like any other weapon. I've handled other weapons that shoot and handle better and are just as reliable. Thats my opinion. That doesn't make me or anyone else a Glock hater. In fact it has less to do with our opinion of the weapon than it does the constant hype the Glock fanboys are constantly trying to spoon feed to everyone around them.
Why don't you post this on Glocktalk? It seems that would have been a better place for it. What the heck does our opinion of the Glock have to do with what YOU think of it? I love my M&Ps and my HK P7 is one of the best shooting weapons I've ever handled. I like AK 47s more than the ARs, and those opinions don't hinge on anyone else agreeing with it. I'm not going to thump my chest all day trying to get everyone else to agree with me.

crgator
December 28, 2008, 01:16 PM
"but the fact is they perform flawlessy 9.9999%"

Does that mean they are flawed 90.0001% of the time?

Joking! I know you misplaced your decimal point.

PhillyGlocker
December 28, 2008, 02:32 PM
"but the fact is they perform flawlessy 9.9999%"

Does that mean they are flawed 90.0001% of the time?

Joking! I know you misplaced your decimal point.
You know what I meant. :rolleyes:

Even with the support issue, nothing beats a Glock in reliability or ease of maintenance.

WardenWolf
December 28, 2008, 02:39 PM
Is it just me, or does it seem that .40's tend to be the most problematic semi-auto round? I don't hear about .45's blowing up or .45's getting pushed back into their case. Same with 9mm.

Drail
December 28, 2008, 03:46 PM
The .40 is a fairly high pressure round, especially compared to the .45 ACP. Combine that pressure with a less than fully supported case and you will have cases blowing. And I'm not just referring to the Glock here. Back in the late 80s when everyone in IPSC competition decided to switch to the .38 Super cartridge (also high pressure) there was a rash of blowouts. People had brass shrapnel in their faces and grips splintered into their hands and magazines blown out the well. The solution was the introduction of the fully ramped barrel. With ramped barrels competitors started using all manner of ever higher pressure loads to enable the compensators to work better. The results were pretty amazing. If you push the envelope you need to understand the consequences of excess. The laws of physics cannot be broken. A lot of folks are still learning this.

rscalzo
December 28, 2008, 03:52 PM
We had a 1911 blow up several weeks back. Most likely a bad reload. The frame was undamaged but other parts were not that lucky.

MountainBear
December 28, 2008, 04:03 PM
You have to love Ruger's overengineering. The cylinder in pieces, mulitple rounds detonated, and the frame topstrap is just bulged. Now I'm a die-hard S&W fan, always will be. But when you see the S&W (yes, it is an airweight PD version, but still) with the topstrap gone, it does give one appreciation for Ruger's rugged ugliness.

WardenWolf
December 28, 2008, 04:11 PM
it does give one appreciation for Ruger's rugged ugliness.

It's not ugly, it's Rugly. Ruger, Rugged, ugly.

atblis
December 28, 2008, 07:23 PM
Problem is, there are multiple examples of Glocks that have gone kablooey. Yeah, so how does showing pictures of something else, change anything about Glocks?

PhillyGlocker
December 28, 2008, 07:47 PM
Problem is, there are multiple examples of Glocks that have gone kablooey. Yeah, so how does showing pictures of something else, change anything about Glocks?
Changes nothing. Glocks are some of the best pistols on the planet, and have revolutionized the realm of handguns. It's that simple.:neener:

Blue Brick
December 28, 2008, 08:01 PM
More reasons why I only purchase Rugers.

Erik
December 28, 2008, 08:20 PM
"I thought only Glocks Kaboom..."

You are correct. The kabooms which look like makes other than Glocks in the thread that you posted are all photo shopped Glocks; each and every one of them. :evil: :neener:

---

Of course folks can manage to kaboom most anything.

JohnBT
December 28, 2008, 08:37 PM
"I also see a lot of people haven't responded to the thread because they don't want to see the truth."

I think a lot of them responded to the last thread on this topic. Or the one before that. :)

Of course, the word KaBoom was invented to describe what Glocks did. Later it was generalized to other guns.

Did you really believe that only Glocks KaBoom?

John

jon_in_wv
December 28, 2008, 08:40 PM
What exactly did the Glock revolutionize? Every part of it was borrowed from other designs. Polygonal rifling?, Polymer frame? Tilting Barrel? All done before. It throws the same lead as any other weapon. It made NOTHING obsolete and in fact the 1911 has seen a massive resurgence of popularity in the last few years. The Glock has not taken over the shooting sports. The 1911 is still king of those. Your point has no merit it seems.

mpmarty
December 28, 2008, 08:52 PM
Jon, give it up. Once they drink the kool aid there's no saving them.

ljnowell
December 28, 2008, 08:57 PM
These kind of threads make me laugh. How dare someone say a glock is better than a 1911, lets call them every name in the book and bring up kool-aid. 1911s are obviously better, right? Right? Wait, hypocrits.

jon_in_wv
December 28, 2008, 09:09 PM
I KNOW you can't talk sense to them. But you can sit outside their cage and throw peanuts at them.

gc70
December 28, 2008, 09:15 PM
Glock is the top dog in handguns right now, and I truly don't believe anyone can dispute that based on the majority of LEO's and civilians that carry them.

The majority of LEO's drive Fords or Chevys for the same reason they carry Glocks. The only thing indisputable about Glocks is the marketing genius to practically give them to LEO's to gain visibility.

1911shooter
December 28, 2008, 09:16 PM
any firearm can and will KABOOM, but a glock does do it more then any other as jon in wv said you can never reason with the poly kids i have a glock or 2 and i only keep them in the safe and shoot them with factory loads no reloads. when you dont support the cartridge properly thata what happens. as for the rest of the blowups im glade i wasnt there to see the ruger go cause thats a real challenge.

ljnowell
December 28, 2008, 09:27 PM
any firearm can and will KABOOM, but a glock does do it more then any other as jon in wv said you can never reason with the poly kids i have a glock or 2 and i only keep them in the safe and shoot them with factory loads no reloads. when you dont support the cartridge properly thata what happens. as for the rest of the blowups im glade i wasnt there to see the ruger go cause thats a real challenge.
More BS. Lets keep it going folks!

Jim K
December 28, 2008, 09:31 PM
Just FWIW, a while back I ran some tests with bullets pushed back in the case, supposedly a cause of high pressures and gun blowups.

At the time, I used only 9mm; I since have done the same with .40. I used a vise, not a loading tool, to push the bullets back in .10" increments until the bullet would go back no further (or the cases bulged too much to chamber). I did this with 5 different ammo makes in 9mm and three in .40.

No ka-boom. Only when the bullet actually crushed the powder did the cartridges show any sign of high pressure, a slight flattening of the primers. Not an extensive test, nor an exhaustive one, but enough to make me doubt that the dreaded bullet setback ALONE will cause a blowup.

Now an alternate idea. Most KBs supposedly happen on the first round from the magazine. I have seen a shooter with a .40 pistol load the first round and pull the trigger. The gun failed to fire. He then assumed that the round had not chambered and operated the slide again with the pistol pointed down range.

Then he brought the pistol down to the "ready" position AND A 9MM ROUND FELL OUT OF THE BARREL! The first round in the magazine was a 9mm. When he loaded it, it was not caught by the extractor but was just pushed into the barrel beyond reach of the firing pin.

I don't know what would have happened if he had fired the .40 round with a 9mm in the barrel, but I suspect it would not have been good.

I have found that a .40 can be put into a .45 barrel the same way, also trouble looking for a place to happen.

Jim

jon_in_wv
December 28, 2008, 09:31 PM
I'm not even saying its a Poly issue as my main carry gun is an M&P. BUT it has a fully supported chamber and won't fire out of battery. Its not perfect you see.

Cops eat donuts, drive Caprices, and the Association of Police Chiefs believe in banning guns. Are you a fanboy of those too?

And Jim, don't be silly. Glocks are 100% reliable with whatever ammo you put in it. Silly things like caliber are for lesser weapons.

Somebody hand me more peanuts.

ljnowell
December 28, 2008, 09:36 PM
I'm not even saying its a Poly issue as my main carry gun is an M&P. BUT it has a fully supported chamber and won't fire out of battery. Its not perfect you see.

Cops eat donuts, drive Caprices, and the Association of Police Chiefs believe in banning guns. Are you a fanboy of those too?

Somebody hand me more peanuts.
So, its OK to like what you do, right? We just want to make sure, otherwise we will be "fanboys" and "kool aid drinkers".

Is it still ok for us to like women, or have you switched to sheep only?

76shuvlinoff
December 28, 2008, 09:42 PM
thread lock on the way

......and not soon enough

ljnowell
December 28, 2008, 09:45 PM
thread lock on the way

......and not soon enough
Yeah, hopefully soon, there may be people that are more uneducated on the facts of glock (looking at above statements, not likely) that may get the wrong idea.

jon_in_wv
December 28, 2008, 09:46 PM
ljnowell,
I've said more than once you can like whatever you like. Maybe you should try reading a few posts about what I said. I'm not going to keep explaining it when its there for you to read.

Jim K
December 28, 2008, 09:48 PM
For the record, I ran the first series of 9mm setback tests in a Ruger convertible (in case pressure did turn out to be high), then ran the same tests using a Glock. My test .40 gun was a S&W Sigma. The only high pressure signs were as reported above.

The .40 gun with the 9mm in the barrel was a Beretta.

Jim

ljnowell
December 28, 2008, 09:49 PM
ljnowell,
I've said more than once you can like whatever you like. Maybe you should try reading a few posts about what I said. I'm not going to keep explaining it when its there for you to read.

I've read all your posts, I found them very entertaining, in many ways. I just find it ironic that a person can violently defend one type of gun as flawless and another as a POS. Its comical.

jon_in_wv
December 28, 2008, 09:53 PM
The Glockers are getting testy but not one thing has been said about what the Glock has supposedly revolutionized? Someone please tell me what it is. I would love to know why my M&P or my HK or my FEG PJK-9HP is so inferior and what the Glock will do that they won't?? Please do tell.

Since that answer won't come I'll answer it for you. The OP is correct. Glock is not a UNIQUE weapon unto itself. It is just like the rest. Some fail, Glocks included. Glocks are not unique or revolutionary or super duper special. They are just good. Just like their competition. I don't hate em. Thats stupid. Nor do I LOVE them. Thats equally stupid. They are a quality tool. If you prefer it than its right for you. If you DON"T than its not. That doesn't make everyone wrong because they don't drink the Glock Kool-Aid.

The lesson learned here is that if you start an inflammatory thread. Don't whine when you get flamed.

bubbaturbo
December 28, 2008, 09:58 PM
No doubt. I also see a lot of people haven't responded to the thread because they don't want to see the truth.

I imagine that some haven't replied because of your propensity in other threads to call anybody who even dares to question Glock "perfection" a liar.

jon_in_wv
December 28, 2008, 10:02 PM
type of gun as flawless and another as a POS. Its comical.
__________________

Now your just a liar. Show me where I said any such thing. Feel free to quote me.

You know fully well you can't back up that any more than any other outlandish and ignorant claim you make. In fact I've said the opposite of what you claim repeatedly. Your dishonesty is pretty transparent.

ljnowell
December 28, 2008, 10:19 PM
Now your just a liar. Show me where I said any such thing. Feel free to quote.

Actually, that wasnt directed at you, but if the shoe fits. I'm sure you would defend your firearm of choice to the bitter end if it was being bashed.

Personally, I could care less, the experience of the world proves out the opinions of the few.

Why do you attempt to "call out" people who say the glock was a ground breaking weapon? It most certainly was, without a doubt. It is responsible for your M&P that has a fully supported chamber and is indestructable. Or the sigma (unfortunately), or any of the other modern polymer combat pistols. The glock paved the way for all of them. Whats the problem with that? I dont remember seeing anyone say that the glock does things that the M&P cant do, or the FNs, etc.

In fact, when reviewing this thread the first negative post of any kind was :

WOW Thats almost 10 PERCENT!! NO WONDER YOU LIKE THEM!!

Personally I think most Glocks perform even better than that. In fact Glocks are some of the best weapons out there. It doesn't change the fact they don't support the casings properly and they are more prone to fire out of battery more than the competition. These are two design flaws that should have been corrected years ago but Glock and the Glockers just blame everything but the weapon every time something happens. There was a recent thread where a guy had a FTE with a Glock and there was at least 20 posts about how he sissy wristed it, the ammo was bad, he didn't clean it right, etc....etc..... If it was any other weapon people would have said, "Its a new weapon. Keep shooting it will be fine. If you continue to have problems keep track of which magazine caused it and it could be caused by a bad mag." BUT of course, Glocks NEVER have bad mags do they so that would be stupid advice for a Glock wouldn't it? The fact of the matter is Glocks are a device like any other that can and do fail. Its Glocks own arrogance that has stopped it from becoming an even better weapon. SIGs, S&Ws, HKs, are all making great weapons and the the Glocks have nothing to brag about that would make it better than any of those. If you choose to shoot Glocks more power to you but the Glock perfection, never jams, KABOOMS are the users fault, Super laser accurate, torture test proven, and everything else is just junk, just gets a little old. If people could be intellectually honest instead of just fanboys you might get a better response to a flame inducing thread like this one.

I've shot Glocks before and they shot fine. I've seen them fail like any other weapon. I've handled other weapons that shoot and handle better and are just as reliable. Thats my opinion. That doesn't make me or anyone else a Glock hater. In fact it has less to do with our opinion of the weapon than it does the constant hype the Glock fanboys are constantly trying to spoon feed to everyone around them.
Why don't you post this on Glocktalk? It seems that would have been a better place for it. What the heck does our opinion of the Glock have to do with what YOU think of it? I love my M&Ps and my HK P7 is one of the best shooting weapons I've ever handled. I like AK 47s more than the ARs, and those opinions don't hinge on anyone else agreeing with it. I'm not going to thump my chest all day trying to get everyone else to agree with me.


That was the post that changed the tone of the thread. Interesting. You seem to be doing a lot of chest pounding and arguing anyway. Why do you get so butt hurt when someone brings up a glock? Were you abused by one in your youth?

jon_in_wv
December 28, 2008, 10:30 PM
You quoted me then said you weren't referring to me? Thats pretty sharp English skills there pal.

And it was you who went on the attack and keep misquoting to make your point. Sad really.

I"m tapping out. I've run out of peanuts. I also have a rule about debating with people who aren't honest. They will only lie to make their point and will never have the integrity to admit when you've made one.

To the rest of you I'd like to apologize for the following negative and childish posts. I apparently caused these and I am deeply sorry.

These kind of threads make me laugh. How dare someone say a glock is better than a 1911, lets call them every name in the book and bring up kool-aid. 1911s are obviously better, right? Right? Wait, hypocrits.

So, its OK to like what you do, right? We just want to make sure, otherwise we will be "fanboys" and "kool aid drinkers".

Is it still ok for us to like women, or have you switched to sheep only?

More BS. Lets keep it going folks!

okespe04
December 28, 2008, 10:47 PM
When you play with things that go boom wear ear plugs and good eye protection. Does anybody know of any cases where a gun kabooming seriously injured somebody who was properly equipped with safety gear?

jon_in_wv
December 28, 2008, 10:54 PM
okespe04. If you check the threads you can find some pretty nasty pics. Most of them are hand injuries cause by the case rupturing and detonating one or more rounds in the magazine or by hot powder burns. I don't know of anyone SERIOUSLY injured but I'm sure he is out there.

ljnowell
December 28, 2008, 11:17 PM
You quoted me then said you weren't referring to me? Thats pretty sharp English skills there pal.

And it was you who went on the attack and keep misquoting to make your point. Sad really.

I"m tapping out. I've run out of peanuts. I also have a rule about debating with people who aren't honest. They will only lie to make their point and will never have the integrity to admit when you've made one.

To the rest of you I'd like to apologize for the following negative and childish posts. I apparently caused these and I am deeply sorry.


You are sad and pathetic. I notice that you successfully dodged the whole "glock revolutionized nothing, show me, show me, waaaahhhh!" thing you posted above and were answered too. You apparently dislike facts, but love hype and whiney posts full of emotion about how you are the good guy and everyone else is childish, even though you in fact started the crap in this thread. You can apologize to everyone for my posts, I wont. You still havent contributed anything factual to this discussion. Glocks unsupported chamber? MMMkay, lets here some more. What is it that makes them junk and your M&P rock solid and flawless?

You obviously have a hate for glocks, no matter what you say. You make it apparent in every post.

Deepskyy
December 28, 2008, 11:27 PM
Yay! IBTC!!!
Personally, I cannot stand the ergonomics on the glocks, I'm not accurate with them, because its just uncomfortable, but my stance on firearms of all kinds are "to each thier own." One of my best buds from work had a Glock 20 in 10mm and loved it, but then got addicted to 1911s and now has 2 Kimbers. *shrug*
Personally, I love my MP .40 and have loved it from the day I picked her up when I was shopping. It *fit* my hand, felt comfortable and yes, even right. I've chewed through quite a bit of blazer, federal, winchester, and some remington ammo in a little under a year, have only had a slight issue with one of my mags getting a catch every now and then. The other mag works like a charm, so I am going to just replace the naughty one. My feelings on the matter are, if it goes boom when you pull the trigger consistently, it fits in your hand, and you can put the rounds where you want them, then you should be a happy gun owner, everyone else be damned.
This feeling of mine also crosses over to the rifle and shotgun realm with people grumbling over "tacticooling" their weapons. If you like it, have the money for the parts, and you can still hit what you aim at, go for it. If haters want to hate, let them. Thats just more time they will spend on the interwebs debating stock vs. tacticool and less time at the range having fun!

jon_in_wv
December 28, 2008, 11:37 PM
I agree. My M&P has gone boom several thousand times now without a hitch. Its very soft shooting and very accurate. I've never had ANY luck with 1911s. The ones I've had have all been problem children so I've concluded they aren't for me. My most recent love is my H&K P7 PSP. Holy crap that thing can shoot.
I've never cared for the ergos of the Glocks either. The ones I've shot have been hit or miss. I shot a G17 that was brilliant and a G21 that shot well and a G22 that felt like an inaccurate brick. I can't explain why. None of them felt good in the hand though. They are very thick feeling across the grip compared to some of my other weapons.

ljnowell
December 28, 2008, 11:43 PM
I agree. My M&P has gone boom several thousand times now without a hitch. Its very soft shooting and very accurate. I've never had ANY luck with 1911s. The ones I've had have all been problem children so I've concluded they aren't for me. .................... I shot a G17 that was brilliant and a G21 that shot well and a G22 that felt like an inaccurate brick. I can't explain why..........

Finaly, something I could agree with. The short frame doesnt help matters much either. Its not worth it for a grip reduction. Its either get used to it or ditch it. I have a g21, but IMO if you have one you have them all.

Ben86
December 29, 2008, 12:57 AM
Cool, yet horrifying pics.

It proves that all gun types can go kaboom. Whether it's because of overly charged ammo or design flaw. That's one reason why I'm not a big fan of +P ammo, except in the .38 special because it needs all the help it can get.

The less supported the chamber and the higher the chamber pressure the more chance there is of a kaboom.

MythBuster
December 29, 2008, 06:22 PM
Lets get back to this "unsupported chamber" BS. If you have a Glock or any other semi auto pistol and you fire a round and you see your brass has swelled up from the obvious lack of chamber support you are a damn fool for ever pulling the trigger on that pistol a second time.

I just came from the range picking up .40 caliber brass where the local State Police just qualified.

I have a bucket full of .40 brass ALL of them fired from Glocks. NONE of them show any sign of the "unsupported chamber".

North of 49th
December 29, 2008, 06:53 PM
Clearly the phrase "take the high road" means nothing to some people. And "Glockers".... what are we a different breed now too?? Oh wait but I also own a gun that isn't a Glock, well I guess that makes me a traitor to both sides. Luckily everyone will be to busy arguing over which gun is better to shoot me with to ever get the job done:banghead:

LTB15J
December 29, 2008, 07:14 PM
Lets get back to this "unsupported chamber" BS. If you have a Glock or any other semi auto pistol and you fire a round and you see your brass has swelled up from the obvious lack of chamber support you are a damn fool for ever pulling the trigger on that pistol a second time.

I just came from the range picking up .40 caliber brass where the local State Police just qualified.

I have a bucket full of .40 brass ALL of them fired from Glocks. NONE of them show any sign of the "unsupported chamber".

i guess you didnt see the comparison pic with the different barrels. glock is clearly the worst in the chamber/support area

atblis
December 29, 2008, 07:54 PM
I pick up brass too, and 40 cal brass from Glocks is often distinctly bulged. It's easy to tell it is Glock brass because of the distinct firing pin mark (asides from the bulge). I've also seen similar bulges from 10mm Glocks.

The bulges range from not too bad, to disturbing. Don't know what causes it, but I see severely bulged brass from Glocks regularly.

That leads me to believe that some Glocks 40s have either less supported chambers, and or some other issues (firing out of battery maybe).

I have heard rumours that Glock has in fact revised the feed ramp/chamber support.

Blue Brick
December 29, 2008, 08:11 PM
Kool-Aid anyone?

ljnowell
December 29, 2008, 08:46 PM
Kool-Aid anyone?

Trolls anyone?

Eightball
December 29, 2008, 09:51 PM
This just goes to show that idiots can own several different types of firearms.

okespe04
December 29, 2008, 10:02 PM
Your chances of getting killed or hurt in a car accident on the way to the range are far better than you having your gun explode in your hands. Wear good safety glasses, practice proper firearm safety rules, throw in some ear plugs, and shoot em up. If you are that worried about it sell all your guns and ammo to me for really cheap and I will take the risk for you. :)

Big Boomer
December 30, 2008, 01:06 AM
So what makes Glocks any better...or worse than any other polymer gun like the XD's?

What is the huge innovation they bring? Cheaper price for police?

The have only made polymer pistols, no high end stuff, no rifles, shotguns, or any other new type of firearm.

I'm surprised I haven't started seeing them with "made in China" stamped on them and sold at Walmart.


and for me it's just not Glock it's ANY polymer gun. I own one it was my first and my last.

jon_in_wv
December 30, 2008, 01:17 AM
Boomer you just don't get it. Glocks REVOLUTIONIZED modern firearms. The changed EVERYTHING. ALL other guns became obsolete over night. Its like comparing the cap and ball revolver to the 1911. Its THAT big! If you don't believe that than you are just ignorant and don't know anything about firearms. Everyone knows Mr. Glock invented polymer, polygonal rifling, the tilting barrel, trigger safeties, and the artificial heart. Without those things we would all be dead right now. There, now you are smarter. Have a sip of my Kool-Aid and go bring other converts to the fold.

Ben86
December 30, 2008, 02:07 AM
Sometimes reading posts on this forum is as good as standup comedy. :)

76shuvlinoff
December 30, 2008, 07:24 AM
.. or a comic tragedy. :D

gc70
December 30, 2008, 12:40 PM
Why do you attempt to "call out" people who say the glock was a ground breaking weapon? It most certainly was, without a doubt. It is responsible for your M&P that has a fully supported chamber and is indestructable. Or the sigma (unfortunately), or any of the other modern polymer combat pistols. The glock paved the way for all of them.

Polymer frame? Nope, the first polymer framed pistol was the HK VP70, which was introduced 10 years before the first Glock.

Striker fired? The HK VP70 was also striker fired.

Polygonal barrel rifling? Nope, the first polygonal pistol barrels were in the HK P9, which was also introduced more than a decade before the first Glock.

Easy take-down? Look! The HK VP70 had two little take-down buttons on the frame (like the CZ-52) - exactly where they are located on Glocks.

DA trigger? Again, the HK VP70 had a DAO trigger. Alas, the VP70 did not have the Glock trigger thingy, but it was select-fire capable.

So refresh my memory; exactly what about the Glock was ground breaking other than its marketing?

jhansman
December 30, 2008, 12:52 PM
I can't believe the mods have let this peeing contest go on this long. Sheesh....

KBintheSLC
December 30, 2008, 04:09 PM
Shall we seem how many pics of KABOOMED Glocks we can find?? I bet I'll win

You don't think that might have something to do with the fact that there are more Glocks used on duty than the others these days. The so-called "lack of support" in the Glock chamber only matters when you are using brass thats been fired 4-5 times. With good factory new ammo, it is extremely unlikely for a Glock to KB.

Anyway, keep hating Glocks if you want... that leaves more for the rest of us.

So refresh my memory; exactly what about the Glock was ground breaking other than its marketing?
The short answer... nothing. However, they are still good pistols for the money. I think folks are just sick of them because they are everywhere.

Blue Brick
December 30, 2008, 07:03 PM
There is always an excuse when a Glock is involved. Did the dog eat your homework too?

ljnowell
December 30, 2008, 07:44 PM
There is always an excuse when a Glock is involved. Did the dog eat your homework too?

I dont see excuses being made at all. Get over it. GLocks are here to stay. Get over it. Glocks are used by lots of people. Get over it. Glocks are dependable firearmns. Get over it. Did I mention, get over it? Posting garbage with the hope of inflaming people is childish and pathetic. I dont see you even trying to post something that resembles fact to back up anything. Get over it.

goose2
December 30, 2008, 07:50 PM
Reading this scares the living ***** out of me. I guess I will never shoot a handgun or reload.:rolleyes:
Most of these KB are operator air in reloading or barrel obstruction.

jon_in_wv
December 30, 2008, 10:00 PM
WARNING THE FOLLOWING MAY CONTAIN HINTS OF SARCASM AND DRY HUMOR. EVEN IF YOU DO NOT FIND IT AMUSING YOU DO NOT NEED TO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY:

KBintheSLC, are you really going to read my posts and mindlessly parrot the Glock-Hating nonsense like the other children here? I said the opposite numerous times and I not ONCE called the Glock a POS or anything else negative. I find it comical that if you mention even ONE shortcoming of the mighty Glock you guys start pouting. You have no sense of humor nor sarcasm. I heard it is a higher brain function. I don't blame you as Glock told you not to laugh. Its ok.

varoadking
December 30, 2008, 10:07 PM
Good lord...don't y'all ever get tired of beating this issue to death?

chuckusaret
December 30, 2008, 10:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Better not buy another HK, 1911, XD, revolver or Sig then either.
Have I missed something, the above indicates that there has been a Ka Boom problem with the XD's. I have not heard of one incident of a XD exploding. Please advise, I own several and have not had any type of failure with either. Best handguns that I have ever owned

jon_in_wv
December 30, 2008, 11:08 PM
I have no mercy for this horse! It is dead and I will continue to beat it!!!!

Blue Brick
December 31, 2008, 06:08 PM
Glock’s has three major design weaknesses which include an unsupported chamber, poor reinforcement in the critical areas of the slide, and no slide lock or firing pin blockage to prevent accidental discharges.

ljnowell
December 31, 2008, 08:39 PM
firing pin blockage to prevent accidental discharges.
Really?

ljnowell
December 31, 2008, 08:43 PM
Glock’s has three major design weaknesses which include an unsupported chamber, poor reinforcement in the critical areas of the slide, and no slide lock or firing pin blockage to prevent accidental discharges.

Quoted directly from sir gastons website:
FIRING PIN SAFETY
The GLOCK firing pin safety is a solid hardened steel pin which, in the secured state, blocks the firing pin channel, rendering the igniting of a chambered cartridge by the firing pin impossible. The firing pin safety is only pushed upward to release the firing pin for firing when the trigger is pulled and the safety is pushed up through the backward movement of the trigger bar. Releasing the trigger will automatically reactivate the firing pin safety.


You really shouldnt talk about things you know nothing about. Your statements from here on out are pretty much discredited, you should shut up before you look even more stupid.

Blue Brick
December 31, 2008, 11:48 PM
Sheriff Jim Wilson wrote an article about Glock several years ago. The article state that to insure the prevention of accidental discharge, Glocks are required to be carried in a special or approved holster and to never be carried “Mexican style.” Apparently firing pin blockage or transfer bar (or whatever Glock calls it) will not fully block the firing pin which in turn allows the pistol to fire out of battery. I am currently searching for the article.

gglass
January 1, 2009, 12:07 AM
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6480/m36kb2oi2.jpg

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/938/koolaidergh2.jpg

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4121/beatdeadhorsecr6.gif

ljnowell
January 1, 2009, 12:31 AM
Sheriff Jim Wilson wrote an article about Glock several years ago. The article state that to insure the prevention of accidental discharge, Glocks are required to be carried in a special or approved holster and to never be carried “Mexican style.” Apparently firing pin blockage or transfer bar (or whatever Glock calls it) will not fully block the firing pin which in turn allows the pistol to fire out of battery. I am currently searching for the article.
DUH. The reason is because there is no external safety on a glock. If you carried without a holster or "mexican" carried you could easily snag the trigger and shoot yourself. It has nothing to do with the striker safety or firing out of battery.

ljnowell
January 1, 2009, 12:33 AM
gglass, showing a picture of an obviously overcharged round (judging by the primer completely blown out and the shell split all the way up, not just in the unsupported area, along with chamber shroud blown open) is supposed to prove what? The beating the dead horse makes since though, beings haters will always hate and will go to any lengths to make themselves feel better.

TG13
January 1, 2009, 09:12 AM
ljnowell.. i've lurked this thread, and so far you've not made a real argument for the actual benefit of owning a Glock, other than parroting the tag line "it works 99.999% of the time" thing..

i think it's personal preference on how the pistol sits in the hand.. the grip angle on a Glock is distinctly like a Luger.. whereas other pistols have a more vertical grip.. but, this goes into being comfortable.. if a pistol is not comfortable, it's doubtful that one would be accurate with it.. unless it's used quite a bit, and the comfort is overlooked for function.. i.e. being forced into accepting it..

now.. there are alot of failures with the .40S&W Glocks.. there is no doubt to that.. because Glock has picked up a reputation (right or wrong) that they KB on a consistent basis.. if it didn't happen, this thread wouldn't exist..

it's also known that the 40's chamber walls are thin, and the .40 is a high pressure cartridge.. some say that the .40 is a reworked 9mm.. which may, or may not actually be true.. but it does seem that the chamber walls are thin in comparison to other makes..

and, there is no doubt that distinctly -across the board- that Glocks have unsupported chambers.. now, depending on the manufacturer of the casing of the cartridge, it could have thinner walls.. which would lead to a KB, specifically with a .40..
most target loads are loaded to a lower pressure, but SD rounds are higher.. and there's always a chance for a KB with reloads, or remanufactured rounds..

but, there is really no reason for the Glocks to NOT have a fully supported chamber.. none.. unless the design specifically cannot accept a fully supported chamber..

you really can't argue the fact that having a fully supported chamber is a fundamentally better design, than not..

now, there really isn't an issue with polymer pistols.. polymer is just fine, if someone doesn't like "plastic" fine, go buy steel.. i have no problems with polymer pistols..

the problem i have with Glock's frame is the little metal slide inserts.. it may function, but seems very cheap.. and although, a Glock may function to 500K rounds through it, how accurate are the last rounds as opposed to the first rounds?? how much does the frame wear, and how does slack in the action of the slide/frame affect accuracy?? i mean, if the last 100 rounds are about as accurate as blindfolded brick throwing, it would seem that isn't good..

i haven't had that answer.. i've seen the tests, but not seen an answer to late lifespan accuracy..


IMO, Glocks are not all that innovative.. Glock was the first commercially accepted polymer pistol.. other than that.. oh, the trigger safety.. that is an innovation..

other than that, Glocks have just as many failures as other makes.. and it "seems" like the .40s have more KBs..

what is so special about a Glock?? just explain it.. and please, get as detailed as possible..

kolob10
January 1, 2009, 10:18 AM
I've fired thousands of rounds through Glock 19,23, & 30's and have been present when many more have been fired on my range. I have only seen one Glock malfunction with Wolf factory ammo in a Glock 19. Undercharged cartridge with bullet lodged in barrel - gun was fired again with first bullet lodged in barrel. The result was just a bulged barrel (tough to disassemble). Barrel was replaced as there was no other damage to the gun. That should speak to gun strength. I would surmise that if that was a model with a 40 S&W round - the results would have been more catastrophic due to the higher pressure. That gentleman refuses to shoot any Wolf ammo in any weapon. He also had a Wolf cartridge stick in an AR due to lacquer buildup in the chamber. Good shooting.

jon_in_wv
January 1, 2009, 08:39 PM
Tg13. The trigger safety on the Glock was not an invention of Glock either. It has appears on several firearms going back to the 1800s. It was just another borrowed feature. And as a side note, there are numerous manufacturers of aftermarket barrels for the Glocks that have fully supported chambers. That begs the question, why doesn't Glock make them that way? They work, the are reliable, and they are SAFER. It seems Glock is unwilling to ever admit a mistake or make improvements. This is the REAL drawback of the Glack brand. They are going to be over run by the competition while they cling to the the past.

jon_in_wv
January 2, 2009, 05:16 PM
Wow, its funny how facts dilute the Kool-Aid.

jon_in_wv
January 4, 2009, 03:08 PM
And I'll make it an even 90 as this thread dies a horrible death.

Booyah.

SuperNaut
January 4, 2009, 03:22 PM
Lot of hi-larious posts ITT but this post:


This just goes to show that idiots can own several different types of firearms.

Is both true and funny, FTW Eightball.

jon_in_wv
January 4, 2009, 04:57 PM
It's amazing how many people became genuinely mad about this thread. I thought the whole thing was pretty funny. It reminds you the work FAN comes from FANATIC.

jc650
January 4, 2009, 08:47 PM
Still goin, I wonder how many Glocks have blown up since this thread started? Must be hundreds!!

jon_in_wv
January 4, 2009, 09:12 PM
maybe thousands. In fact I heard the new ones come with a pin and you just pull the pin and throw it at your attacker and it will kaboom on them blowing their fingers off.

Robocop
January 5, 2009, 10:10 PM
The question is: Have there been any accurate statistics on different makes of handgun blow ups?:confused:

jon_in_wv
January 6, 2009, 06:26 PM
The only statistics I've heard is that 100% of the Glock kabooms are the users fault and 100% of the other makes kabooms are because they are not Glocks. Other than that no. :D

North of 49th
January 6, 2009, 06:42 PM
Why is this still going??? May I ask if there is anything left of the horse to beat? So everyone pretty much hates Glocks, thinks they suck, are just a copy of some other guns, and no one would ever own one right? Did I miss anything? Oh wait, considering the above the company should become a relic of the past double quick right, strangly enough this is not happening but then we're probably all being blinded by glock propaganda and they are secreatly planning to take over the world useing bombs pretending to be guns.

(btw please do not freak out this is about as "factual" as most of the stuff already on this thread.)

jon_in_wv
January 6, 2009, 08:47 PM
You must really like Glocks? Have we met? I think you were the guy with nine fingers and the limp right? Glock leg Gary? Is that you?

I think the point here as become that some guys take the fanaticism a wee bit too far. I, in fact, made statements praising the Glocks. The only real criticisms I have had is how fanatical the Glock fans are and how they distort the facts to make their pet guns seem PERFECT and how the whole world of firearms changed once the Glock baby was born. The only negatives I've mentioned of the Glocks is Glock's refusal to make changes (even when it would be prudent in the case of the chamber dimensions) or evolve the product line. Yet the Glockers have distorted every statement I've (AND OTHERS) made and have outright lied to make sure no one talks bad about their favorite toy. I think if you read the whole thread you can see the true point of whats going on.

Personally I think this thread is a nice place to point and laugh. I usually behave myself but beating this horse is good sport.

ShadyScott999
January 6, 2009, 09:00 PM
I would like to know how many of the people who worship at the Glock alter would still buy a Glock if say you could buy a Wilson 1911 for the same price. Don't get me wrong, I have owned several Glocks. I now own several high end 1911's. For the price of 1 of my Wilsons or Browns I could buy 5 Glocks. I personally wouldn't take 8 Glocks for one Wilson.:fire:

jon_in_wv
January 6, 2009, 09:44 PM
I may not be a fan boy for Glock but I've had three 1911s and I have had bad luck with all of them. Given a choice between a 1911 of any flavor and a Glock 17/19 (not a 40/45) I would take the Glock. There, I said it.

But given my choice of ANY gun. The Glock would probably be my 4th or 5th choice.

(I tried to kill this horse at post 90. Now I get post 100. Cool)

jc650
January 6, 2009, 09:56 PM
I just want to throw one more post on here that I am a Glock fan. I dont consider myself a fanatic though. I like and own other guns and have no problem admitting it!!!

ljnowell
January 6, 2009, 10:01 PM
I may not be a fan boy for Glock but I've had three 1911s and I have had bad luck with all of them. Given a choice between a 1911 of any flavor and a Glock 17/19 (not a 40/45) I would take the Glock. There, I said it.

But given my choice of ANY gun. The Glock would probably be my 4th or 5th choice.

(I tried to kill this horse at post 90. Now I get post 100. Cool)


I thought this would be dead by now too. I have to ask though, why the dislike of the .45 glock? I understand the .40, high pressure load and all that(though the newer glocks have a LOT more case support), but why the .45? Thats actually the only one that I have, and the only one I care to have to be honest. Thats not because I dont like the 9mm round, I just cant see owning more than one glock. Its like owning two identical pairs of shoes, why?

North of 49th
January 7, 2009, 01:23 AM
You must really like Glocks? Have we met? I think you were the guy with nine fingers and the limp right? Glock leg Gary? Is that you?

While yes I do like glocks and have shot them frequently I must disappoint you I still have all my limbs. ;)

I think the point here as become that some guys take the fanaticism a wee bit too far

THANK YOU!!!!. this is the point I was trying to make in a earlier post on this thread. However I must say that the anti glock side is not innocent of a certain fanaticism. May I also add that not all "glockers" are fanatics, and most of us appreciate guns outside of glocks for example I also have a Colt Python. I would just like to point out that all models and makes can go kaboom. there is no such thing as a perfect gun if there would be this forum would not exist.

jon_in_wv
January 7, 2009, 01:44 AM
I here that. If you want to see a good thread check the one about which firearms people own that have had NO failures. Glocks are there in spades but so are HKs, Sigs, S&W, and others. There are a lot of quality firearms out there. The Glock may have forced polymer into the mainstream but other than that its just another good weapon. I call my M&P "Glock 2.0" because I feel its what a Glock should be. (I'm sure somebody will get POed by that statement) Its a tough, proven design with a fully supported chamber. quality steel sights, and a customizable grip. Other than those factors its basically a Glock design. When I compared them side to side I really liked the M&P better. After a few years with it I'm even more sold and perplexed why Glock hasn't even hinted at an update. have they? I would love to see what they do next.

Here is some good reading while we wait for the nest "upgrade"

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/upgrade-faq.html

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