Academy Sports--I felt like a criminal


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John828
December 27, 2008, 02:56 PM
Yeah, this may be another groaner thread.

I finally picked a rifle and bought it this morning at Academy. I've always considered Academy a very pro gun place, but I have never bought a gun from since I prefer ftf or one of two local shops.

Anyway, they had the Remington 798 for $399, and along with Remington's rebate, I felt $369+ tax was was fair. The gentleman behind the counter was a 4473 "nazi." He checked and double checked it line by line which is fair. He studied my DL and CCL. He held up the cards and looked at my face, held up the cards and looked at my face, with a few grunts while doing so. Then he says that I need to get a manager. Apparently only a manager is professional enough to finish the process.

The manager comes over and repeats the process. Studies everything, makes sure I am indeed who my IDs say I am. By now (about twenty minutes later) another older gentleman had walked up to the counter. I exchanged howdies and said, "Remember when you could walk into a hardware store get a gun, grab some ammo, and go to the cash register?" He smiled, but the manager heard me and gave me a bit of a glare.

Then he walked me up to the register. I would not have blinked an eye had he said that he would have to hold my hand as well.

Then, and this has to be purely coincidental, as I walk to my truck, there were to squad cars in the parking lot--city police and a county sheriff. I know that was a coincidence, but it sure drove home the feeling I had while in the store that I was a criminal.

I am thirty-five but look twenty-five and as clean cut as could be. I had on clean clothes and even took a shower this morning.

In their defense, I know that they are probably just following some corporate SOP, but I doubt I will buy another gun from them unless it is a screaming deal.

Oh and then I get home and read a thread about Sportsmanguide.com having some buying data online, and I remember that while at Academy, part of the process was them entering my information into a computer. I think I will only buy ftf or through one of my local shops for now on.

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hadmanysons
December 27, 2008, 03:03 PM
Sounds like a couple of anti-gunners trying to give you a hard time. Or the original guy just didn't like the look of ya:)

rbernie
December 27, 2008, 03:06 PM
Or, more likely, the F Troop has been giving their 4473s a hard time and they don't want to get fired for screwing it up.

Don't blame them - blame the capricious nature of the bound book inspection process.

General Geoff
December 27, 2008, 03:07 PM
This is why, whenever possible, I buy guns at a GUN SHOP, not a big box store. :)

rbernie
December 27, 2008, 03:10 PM
As an additional comment - the three 'real gun stores' that I buy from regularly always do a paper check whereby a second staffer reviews the paperwork that the first clerk and I completed, just to get a second pair of eyes on the stuff. That seems to be pretty much SOP, and I'm not surprised that the sporting goods chains have adopted this procedural model.

dogtown tom
December 27, 2008, 03:28 PM
rbernie: Or, more likely, the F Troop has been giving their 4473s a hard time and they don't want to get fired for screwing it up.
Don't blame them - blame the capricious nature of the bound book inspection process.

THIS.


In the last couple of months ATF has traced several straw purchases to Academy's in Houston & south Texas. The belief is that these guns wind up in Mexico.

If I were Academy, WalMart, etc you can bet I would beat it into my employees heads not to be diligent & not jeopardize my FFL. A mistake by that Academy employee could wind up costing Academy quite a bit of $$$ in lost sales.

General Geoff: This is why, whenever possible, I buy guns at a GUN SHOP, not a big box store.

They do the same thing and charge you extra for their "customer service".

Lone_Gunman
December 27, 2008, 03:33 PM
I don't see what Academy did that you think was wrong. They are required by law to correctly fill out 4473, and verify who you say you are.

I think you are right, you might be better off just buying from a private seller if you have a problem with the store complying with the law.

General Geoff
December 27, 2008, 03:57 PM
They do the same thing and charge you extra for their "customer service".

They hold your hand while they escort you to the exit?

grimjaw
December 27, 2008, 04:22 PM
John828, given the large police presence in central Arkansas and the uselessly bureaucratic nature of its local government, I can't help but feel like a criminal whether I'm buying a gun or buying a soda.

I've shopped at Academy in LR and NLR, and got mixed responses from staff at both. I wouldn't blame it on Academy.

jm

notorious
December 27, 2008, 04:28 PM
Maybe the store worker just had a bad day and woke up late and had to rush to work and didn't get to shower and stepped in dog poo and parked on the wron side of the street and got a ticket and his wife called to say his brother is a better lover and she faked it with him every time.

It happens.

Oh, as for stores getting tough, it happens. The LAPD Academy store here used to be super friendly and easy and then one of their employees decided to dabble illegally in Class III weapon sales. ATF swooped as they should. Now they make me feel like a criminal when I am just buying some ammo... and I am in uniform!

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 27, 2008, 04:33 PM
That's sounds pretty onerous and unnecessary (the getting the manager part), but not necessarily wrong.

Academy Sports HAS IN FACT, however, proven itself anti-gun (arguably). You only have to be 18 to buy most any long gun there, including a Ruger Mini-14, per federal law and their policy, but you must be 21 to buy what they call an "assault rifle", per their policy, even thought that is more strict than federal law. So good luck getting an answer out of them as to why a Mini-14 is not an "assault rifle", but an AR is. :(

Incidentally, I might point out that if the problem in Texas is with *straw purchases*, then what they did to you (checking, re-checking, getting the manager) would NOT have prevented any straw purchase! A straw purchase, by definition, is someone buying a gun who is perfectly able to buy a gun, and then turning around and illegally transferring it (all done knowingly at the time of purchase). Had you been a straw purchaser, nothing they did would have stopped that (unless the getting-the-manager part was a stalling tactic/ subterfuge to allow them time to scan the rest of the store and parking lot looking for illegal aliens who are loitering around with a "has he got our guns yet, homey?" look on their faces, as if a straw purchase conspiracy would be that stupid/blatant).

jmr40
December 27, 2008, 04:34 PM
You can thank Michael Bloomberg, the Mayor of NYC, for a lot of this. Couple of years ago he sent his goons to southern gunshops and they tricked some clerks into making a few honest mistakes on gun sales. They then sued the gunshops claiming it was their fault illegal guns turned up in NYC. Since then most stores have become quite "anal" about getting everything right.

notorious
December 27, 2008, 04:37 PM
Didn't Michael Bloomberg get a severe chastising about his self-funded witch hunt?

mgregg85
December 27, 2008, 04:39 PM
Every time I buy a gun at Gander Mountain it takes at least an hour to get through the paper work. I really hate it, i've bought guns and left the store in like 10 to 15 minutes tops at other gun stores.

notorious
December 27, 2008, 04:41 PM
You just have to get to know the people by buying a lot of guns and junk. Heck, I got to know the local sporting goods store manager to the point he can get my stuff done in 10 minutes. He hands over the forms, I do my part, he does his part, I pay, I am gone. Then I come back in 10 days... as per Kalifornistan law because I needed to cool off.

John828
December 27, 2008, 05:12 PM
Okay, up from the nap and feel a little different. Lone gunman, you are correct. I guess I am just spoiled by a few other shops because they actually like selling guns. They, themselves, hunt and shoot and they seem to genuinely want to help others shoot guns.

I did feel like I was a criminal while in the store though. I admit that they have to follow some set procedures due to the nature of being a chain and the requirements of federal regs, but I won't buy from them anymore unless it's a great deal--not even a good deal, but a great deal. I would rather spend a little more to help out someone else who actually enjoys what they do.

Riptide
December 27, 2008, 05:31 PM
Man, I know the feeling. I bought a Henry Golden Boy .22LR two years ago, at Dick's Sporting Goods, mainly because they had one in stock, and my nephew was coming up in a few days...

The jerking around I got in that store ensures that not only will I never buy another gun in there, I will never make another purchase in there, ever.

They even had the gall to call my house, and reiterate to my wife, what paperwork I needed when I came to pick the gun up ( I had put it on layaway).

It was my only time not buying at the local GS, and I will never do that again.

Guyon
December 27, 2008, 05:32 PM
I've bought several at Academy over the years, and their checkout procedures have become a bit more rigorous. That said, I've always been done in 15 to 30 minutes, and no one was rude about it. I've waited much longer at other vendors or at gun shows. And everyone I've every talked to behind the counters at Academy either hunted or fished, or did both.

I'd have no problems giving my local Academy my gun business again.

TxState101
December 27, 2008, 06:01 PM
. The gentleman behind the counter was a 4473 "nazi." He checked and double checked it line by line which is fair. He studied my DL and CCL. He held up the cards and looked at my face, held up the cards and looked at my face, with a few grunts while doing so. Then he says that I need to get a manager. Apparently only a manager is professional enough to finish the process.

It's company policy. Check the 4473, double check it if you feel the need, and then have a manager come over, check it, sign and date in the appropriate places.

The manager comes over and repeats the process. Studies everything, makes sure I am indeed who my IDs say I am. By now (about twenty minutes later) another older gentleman had walked up to the counter. I exchanged howdies and said, "Remember when you could walk into a hardware store get a gun, grab some ammo, and go to the cash register?" He smiled, but the manager heard me and gave me a bit of a glare.

Once again, the manager has to check everything, because retail ain't looking for anything but warm bodies, even though the average retail worker knows how to get things done quicker than the manager. When I was checking 4473 forms, I missed a couple of things that my manager caught. Mistakes happen.

Might want to cut the passive-aggressive crap, while you're at it. Oh boo-hoo, you didn't get a mint at the end of the sale for being a good customer!

Then he walked me up to the register. I would not have blinked an eye had he said that he would have to hold my hand as well.

Once again, company policy! If you think they're going to let somebody walk out without paying for a gun, think again, buddy. There's probably a couple of other reasons, but those can be accomplished out in the parking lot. It's mainly to walk something up to the front.

Academy sales reps will walk up an expensive fishing reel, binoculars, knives, scopes, GPS, etc. If it's over a certain amount, they're walking it up.

And Academy will be keeping your 4473 form for 20(25?) years in a filing cabinet, and the computer database is for their records of what was sold, when, to whom, what model, JUST SO THEY CAN GET BACK IN CONTACT WITH THE CUSTOMER IF THEY NEED TO.

Look, I'm all for Academy hate because I worked there, but if you want to complain, don't complain because you feel that you were wronged because some poor guy is doing his job, to a level that clearly offended you.

Nobody cares how old you are, how well dressed, whether you stink or not. Although if the sight of cop cars makes you feel like a criminal, what are you hiding, buddy?

tl;dr, get your head out of your ass.

notorious
December 27, 2008, 06:07 PM
At Big 5, all knives and expensive optics and BB/Airguns are walked up to the counter.

But after your 10 day wait period, when you go back to the gun section in the back of the store, you sign the paperwork and then they give you your gun there to walk through the store on your own.

It's all about theft deterrence and policy at that point. Nothing personal.

TxState101
December 27, 2008, 06:08 PM
Man, wait periods must suck.

It's nice to walk out of a store thirty minutes after they get the gun out of the cage.

INSULATION TIM
December 27, 2008, 06:11 PM
This is basically the same process that I went through, without the patrol cars, at Bass Pro. I didn't find it intrusive and I suspect that the gentlemen were following store policies.

The redundancy is simply to make sure that someone didn't transpose a number; serial, social, etc.

It all made sense to me.

You gotta remember that there are a lot of asshat lawyers out there just waiting to pounce on some large corporation.

notorious
December 27, 2008, 06:11 PM
Don't know what no wait period feels like. I've lived all my life in Kommieforniastan. At the minimum, it has always been a 3 day wait for long guns and 10 days for pistols and then it got extended to 15 days for a while and now it's 10 days for everything.

Yeah... I need a cooling off period. If I already have tons of guns at home and I am a cop with active clearances... what are you accomplishing with a waiting period?

ConstitutionCowboy
December 27, 2008, 06:17 PM
Last time I went to Academy, (November 4th, to be precise) I bought $700.00 plus worth of ammo(.308, 45ACP, .380ACP, 357 MAG, and .45-70), and by the time I got to the cash register, there was about 5 or 6 men sorta gathered around. One said, "Thats a lot of ammo!" I said, "Yup. After today it's gonna get a lot more expensive by the looks of things." Nothing more was said, but I was watched all the way out to my truck.

Woody

TxState101
December 27, 2008, 06:18 PM
A lot of sanctimonious bravo sierra.

I can understand John being upset if there was something actually wrong here, but really, it just seems that a cautious worker was going through all the procedures.

But then again, it is Arkansas, so maybe the guy wasn't literate and had a hard time reading all those squigglies?

notorious
December 27, 2008, 06:22 PM
Sanctimonious Boy Sam indeed.

After all, he went through with the transaction and bought the gun from them so he gave them the business, right?

You can walk out on the transaction if you really are that dissatisfied so you can make a point with your wallet, which would reinforce your point a lot better than giving them your money then griping.

That being said, 4473 Nazis suck!

RPCVYemen
December 27, 2008, 06:29 PM
Look, I'm all for Academy hate because I worked there, but if you want to complain, don't complain because you feel that you were wronged because some poor guy is doing his job, to a level that clearly offended you.

I don't endorse your attitude, but your overall post confirms what I expected - most general sports stores don't hire train sales clerks who know how to fill out a 4473 reliably. It would make sense to have a manager check it. The manager might not be very comfortable with the form himself - though he might very well feel very responsible.

I exchanged howdies and said, "Remember when you could walk into a hardware store get a gun, grab some ammo, and go to the cash register?"

Wow, you really zinged them! Why hassle people doing their job? It doesn't sound like were in any way being rude or difficult. Does the fact you are purchasing something from them allow you to pick on them? Of course, if they respond back in kind, they get fired. Does that seem right to you?

Mike

TxState101
December 27, 2008, 06:31 PM
I don't care one way or the other that you endorse my attitude.

They're supposed to train for you for two weeks in general BS that you'll need to know working H&F.

I got a 15 minute crash course in filling out the 4473 and signed off on the ATF crap.

RPCVYemen, don't worry about endorsing my attitude, worry about endorsing your own.

notorious
December 27, 2008, 06:33 PM
Big 5 only allows managers to do firearms transactions. No clerks allowed so you don't have the double checking and the dubious attitudes.

I remember hardware stores used to have guns and you can just pick them out and check them in the aisles right next to the kids in the toys aisle. Those were the days.

Bozo
December 27, 2008, 06:35 PM
I don't see anything wrong. There isn't any big store that will sell a gun without a manager signing off on it.

As far as wait time, I have never waited more than 20 minutes at the most. Usually it is a lot less.

If you are only 35 years old, I seriously doubt you ever walked into a hardware store and bought a gun without filling out any paperwork.

MikePGS
December 27, 2008, 06:53 PM
I mean honestly with the financial penalties people who sell firearms can be subjected to (even prison time) I'd be pretty cautious if I was selling guns to.

John828
December 28, 2008, 12:51 AM
Bozo, I do remember the days of hardware stores selling guns and ammo. My dad worked at one. Speaking of remembering things, remember smoking in the grocery store, hospital, or movie theater? I do and did.

Anyway, lots of bickering from some. I didn't mean to cause all that, I just related my experience. Except for Galyan's (now Dick's) I never purchased a firearm from a big chain store, so I related my experience from today.

My experience may have been filtered by my judgment which has been filtered by my experiences; nonetheless, I felt the way I felt and will make future decisions based on that. If I am wrong, I can handle that.

Double Naught Spy
December 28, 2008, 01:37 AM
Academy Sports--I felt like a criminal

If you felt like a criminal, then you have some issues with people being careful about data verification about you. It isn't the fault of Academy that you felt like a criminal.

Then, and this has to be purely coincidental, as I walk to my truck, there were to squad cars in the parking lot--city police and a county sheriff. I know that was a coincidence, but it sure drove home the feeling I had while in the store that I was a criminal.

If you know it was a coincidence and yet still need to tell us about it, then you definitely have some issues.

John828
December 28, 2008, 01:57 AM
Thanks for the berating and the psychoanalysis, doublenaughtspy.

I wish I could have explained myself fully or better when I posted my thread. Sometimes black and white type cannot fully capture the thoughts I was having.

Anyway, I feel comfortable enough to "bite my tongue" as said on another thread.

machinisttx
December 28, 2008, 01:57 AM
Man, wait periods must suck.

It's nice to walk out of a store thirty minutes after they get the gun out of the cage

Thirty minutes? :eek:

I'm in and out in 10 or less, 15 at most. I've filled out so many 4473's I have it all memorized. :scrutiny: :D

TxState101
December 28, 2008, 05:40 AM
Thirty minutes?

I'm in and out in 10 or less, 15 at most. I've filled out so many 4473's I have it all memorized.

After checking as many as I have, I can fill them out blindfolded.

I still need to get the clerk over, BS with them, check the gun out, BS some more, and then purchase it.

I can't complain about waiting.

Some do, but I don't. Probably because I don't have a care in the world when I'm purchasing a firearm.

beatcop
December 28, 2008, 06:00 AM
The wait is "business as usual"...

cassandrasdaddy
December 28, 2008, 06:58 AM
Academy Sports HAS IN FACT, however, proven itself anti-gun (arguably).



lol priceless

notorious
December 28, 2008, 07:10 AM
Unless you go to a smaller gunshop that is specifically firearm oriented, you are not likely to find anyone knowledgeable or sympathetic in particular to firearms. The big sporting goods stores stock firearms but it counts as what... 5% of total inventory, if that? Coupled with the low profit margin and relatively long time and labor involved in each transaction and you see the low incentive they have to promote that part of their business. Sometimes I wonder why they even bother but hey, I am not complaining.

rino451
December 28, 2008, 10:49 AM
Had the same experience at an Academy here. Filled out the 4473, the mamager checked it, then had to initial another form that had a bunch of lines where I confirmed a bunch o fother stuff. Even though I have my CHL. Bought the last Rem. 597 in town. Shoudl have walked. I wasn't pissed really. Took about an hour (the counter guy was also training a newb).

I go there to window shop and price check, but I won't buy there and I'm not afraid to tell them why if they ask whether I wasn to buy something. A also won't hesitate to stop a transaction no matter how far I am through the paperwork process if they feel like deviating from the norm. While I can appreciate that they might do it because the ABC guys are on their case, do I want to buy from a store that's getting such scrutiny?

edSky
December 28, 2008, 11:01 AM
John828, you're probably better off doing business at local gunshops such as Don's Weaponry or Fort Thompson in North Little Rock, Bulls-Eye Guns and Ammo in (west) Little Rock, and FirearmsForLess.com (west) Little Rock. They are all good places to visit though the last two have limited hours and by appointment, respectively.

misANTHrope
December 28, 2008, 11:06 AM
Once again, the manager has to check everything, because retail ain't looking for anything but warm bodies, even though the average retail worker knows how to get things done quicker than the manager. When I was checking 4473 forms, I missed a couple of things that my manager caught. Mistakes happen.

The "warm body theory" is particularly true this time of year. Speaking from experience, when the holidays roll around, they'll hire anyone who professes to have thought about hunting or fishing, because they need the staff. Some of those folks turn out to be worthwhile, and stay around after the holidays; others are worthless peons and are gone mid-January.

I always did my best, when working at Dick's, to get folks in and out quickly. I could generally get a 4473 done and run in 10-15 minutes. I didn't like walking folks up to the front of the store, but hey, that's the way it was. I'd freely tell folks that I thought it was a bit ridiculous.

As has been said before, these are nothing more than corporate CYA policies.

Guyon
December 28, 2008, 11:14 AM
A couple of purchases back, my Academy forgot to have me sign the acknowledgment regarding safety measures and guns. The manager called and asked if I could come back to sign it. As a result she gave me a $25 gift card. To me, it showed: (a) they do have to take the paperwork seriously and (b) they do value their customers.

fireman 9731
December 28, 2008, 11:17 AM
Dont worry.... I know the feeling....

I bought one gun at wal-mart in my life and I will never buy one there again...

Sure it may be company policy to go over everything with a fine toothed come, but you can do that in a friendly, unoffensive, and un-speculative way.

When you walk out of a store with a new gun you should be jumping for joy, NOT feeling like a criminal.

TxState101
December 28, 2008, 01:55 PM
Once again, if you're feeling like a criminal, you've got other issues to deal with.

Mohawk
December 28, 2008, 02:47 PM
One aspect that is overlooked by most is the fact that store personnel were probably reacting for the cameras. All big box stores video record all firearms transactions and save it for record purposes. Whereas a gun shop may have cameras installed but only to deter and identify robbers not for record purposes. The big box keeps a video record of all firarms transactions for liability purposes and to help in police investigations. A process that I find distateful.

notorious
December 28, 2008, 02:50 PM
Get used to it... cameras are part of our lives now. You might even have some inside your house that you don't know about. Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you.

Mohawk
December 28, 2008, 02:57 PM
Oh, I'm used to it. Cameras are a big part of my company business. As it relates to this thread I thought it was appropriate to mention. Many don't factor that in on a consumer level.

notorious
December 28, 2008, 02:59 PM
I don't think I can go to any stores without seeing cameras now. Most point it out too with a big "SMILE, YOU'RE ON CAMERA" sign by every counter.

TxState101
December 28, 2008, 03:01 PM
My manager liked to watch the live camera feed and try and catch us talking by the gun counter when we didn't have any customers in.

He would call us on the portable and tell us to wave at the camera, so he got the finger instead.

Cameras suck.

notorious
December 28, 2008, 03:03 PM
He deserved the finger.

Mohawk
December 28, 2008, 03:16 PM
To empasize your previous post Notorious, I just read in todays paper that a car hiacker was captured because the victim left her cell pone in the SUV and even though it was not on they were able to GPS track the vehicle and catch the perp. The ability to track and monitor all society has gone beyond Orwellian.
My whole point is that every move, every part of the gun transaction in a big box is recorded and archived for legal or LE use and this may have ifluenced the over cautious nature of the sales dept. In private gun shops you will be videoed but the tape is not archived for future use it will be re-recorded over usually.

theotherwaldo
December 28, 2008, 03:40 PM
There's an easy cure. Don't buy NEW guns.

I haven't bought a brand new gun since 1975.

Everything's used or milsurp. Bought FTF or from small shops, or even online.

No Academy policy to be followed to the letter.

Nice.

expvideo
December 28, 2008, 04:58 PM
"Remember when you could walk into a hardware store get a gun, grab some ammo, and go to the cash register?"
You're 35. How is it that you remember this?

nathan
December 28, 2008, 05:54 PM
Holding your hand must be gay. Unless it s a woman, of coure.

nathan
December 28, 2008, 05:56 PM
The gun clerks in that store must be acting like jerks. They deal with so many characters and have to be careful. Sometimes they cross the line. Sorry to hear your experience.
Best is call their general manager and voice out. That should let them know gun owners dont give in to this kind of treatment

TxState101
December 28, 2008, 06:18 PM
The best thing to do is not be a jerk and call and attempt to ruin somebody's day when there wasn't any wrongdoing.

Sometimes, when I read THR, I feel that gun owners believe strongly in the 2nd Amendment, but don't believe in anything else, like grammar, or reading comprehension!

Other times, it's just rude comments trying to bring somebody down, much like I'm trying to do now.

Hey-o!

notorious
December 28, 2008, 06:28 PM
If you think you are being mistreated, voice it to the manager. Maybe he can tell you his side and explain store policy or store experiences which caused the policy. That usually will calm both sides down and nothing further will be made of it.

I know, I deal with dispute resolution every day. Most of the time if both sides get to voice their opinions and understand why each acted the way they did, it works out in the end. I said USUALLY... reasonable people can do it, some people are just beyond help in that regard.

John828
December 28, 2008, 06:55 PM
You're 35. How is it that you remember this?

My dad worked a hardware store that sold guns and ammunition, and, yes, as a kid, I well remember seeing (and holding) them. It wasn't their main thing I am sure, but I remember shotguns, a few .22s, and some .30/30s.

As stated in a previous post, I remember when you could smoke on domestic flights, at the grocery store and at the hospital.

notorious
December 28, 2008, 07:03 PM
Dude... we used to smoke in the theatre, at work, and it was a given that a man in the infirmary had a right to smoke.

I also miss the days when kids and guns were no big deal because if you did anything remotely wrong, your dad would inflict way more pain on you than any gun could... of course, that wouldn't work nowadays since dads are not as common as they used to be.

Guyon
December 28, 2008, 07:07 PM
Other times, it's just rude comments trying to bring somebody down, much like I'm trying to do now.


Way to take the high road and set an example. :scrutiny:

notorious
December 28, 2008, 07:12 PM
At least he's honest about it... that's pretty high on the road.

TxState101
December 28, 2008, 07:15 PM
Way to take the high road and set an example.

I've tried.

Really, most of the time I don't even bother responding to some threads just because of what's being said in them.

This one though, it grabbed my attention.

John828
December 28, 2008, 08:34 PM
Yeah, this thread grew legs on its own. i thought it would die a quick death.

Anyway, I am way past yesterday. After looking at it through some of your eyes, it was not as big a deal as it felt at the time.

TxState101
December 28, 2008, 08:38 PM
Glad you were able to see it from a different side, John.

Sorry if I came off as an ass.

John828
December 28, 2008, 08:46 PM
No problem

natecade1
December 28, 2008, 09:00 PM
EDIT:
to OP any big department/sporting goods store does the same manager escort type thing.
no big deal to me.

Guyon
December 28, 2008, 11:07 PM
I have better luck at Academy than any other chain. When they first opened in these parts, they would run 15% off firearms sales from time to time, and they would even take the percentage off a sale price.

As far as other chains go, I've bought one gun from Bass Pro and one gun from Wal-Mart.

The Bass Pro check took a couple of hours, in which time I had to wander around the store/mall aimlessly until they called me.

The Wal-Mart check took a day. I'm not even sure about the reasons the background check took so long, but I had to come back the next day to pick up the shotgun. Had it not been on clearance, I wouldn't have fooled with it.

notorious
December 29, 2008, 12:24 AM
IBTL!

Jorg Nysgerrig
December 29, 2008, 12:56 AM
I just read in todays paper that a car hiacker was captured because the victim left her cell pone in the SUV and even though it was not on they were able to GPS track the vehicle and catch the perp.

Wait, so cell phones can now receive GPS signals and transmit their location when turned off? I would love to see the article where they claim this.

Also, let us know how the buffet is at the Reynold Wrap Customer Appreciation dinner.

Edited to add: I just called up my satellite imaging of Mohawk's house and zoomed in on the newspaper. This appears to be the article. http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2008/12/28/20081228wvcarjack1228.html However, it doesn't mention anything about the cell phone not being on.

HadEmAll
December 29, 2008, 12:57 AM
I think you're overreacting.

notorious
December 29, 2008, 01:06 AM
Cell phones, even when turned off, can be tracked by the signal it's giving off to the cell sites. The only way to get it off the grid is to take out the battery.

While it's not exactly GPS, it can be triangulated fairly easily if the cell service provider assists.

They have a way to get the signal... I won't say too much more about how they do it as they are very hesitant to acknowledge it but it is something that we've done or attempted to do a few times when it has helped in tracking down criminals... especially in a carjacking or robbery where the cell phone was taken.

Kind of Blued
December 29, 2008, 02:24 AM
I feel like a criminal filling out a 4473 even when it goes swimmingly. :rolleyes:

toivo
December 29, 2008, 02:35 AM
Man, wait periods must suck.

Agreed. In New York State we put up with a lot of crap regarding firearms, but at least we don't have to deal with waiting periods.

My biggest gripe with my big box purchasing experience was the fact that they (Wal-Mart) had two clowns playing tug-of-war with my new rifle (CZ 452) while trying to get the mandatory POS trigger lock on it. I offered to do it for them, but they said I was not allowed to touch the rifle. I don't know what they were so worried about: The bolt wasn't in it.

notorious
December 29, 2008, 02:45 AM
I don't know if I would trade one type of tyranny for another... at least our long arms are not registered... yet.

ezypikns
December 29, 2008, 02:49 AM
I got the same treatment at the time. It's just their policy. They ARE pretty competitive on their prices for some firearms.
I can put up with a considerable amount of inconvenience to save a few dollars, and as long as the folks aren't actually rude, it's O.K. with me. I really don't want them to be my friends anyway.

Remander
December 29, 2008, 02:56 AM
I've bought from Academy, Bass Pro, and Wal-Mart, as well as local shops. The big retailers all walked me out to the door per policy, but all were very nice about the whole process.

The Bass Pro guy was especially good. Yes, sir. No, sir, etc. Very knowledgeable about the products too.

The local shops do not walk me out, but their doors are only 10 or 20 feet from the register.

Some doofus Bass Pro customer with earrings and tats, who loudly said many things that indicated he was an idiot, was in Bass Pro during my XD .45 purchase. The clerk was so courteous to him that is was amazing. The customer made you want to scream, but the clerk politely answered his questions (and bit his tongue as to goofus remarks about calibers and such).

As the clerk walked me out, I said, "I bet you hear more BS than anyone who works in this store."

Polite answer: "Yes, sir." :) That guy is a trooper.

I then walked all over the outdoor shopping mall, and inside several stores, with the XD tupperware marked in yellow tape: "High Capacity Magazines: Not Legal in California." Nary a cop or security guard ever batted an eye.

Life in the south. We get all kinds.

Remander
December 29, 2008, 02:57 AM
Double post. Oops

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 29, 2008, 02:58 AM
I have ALWAYS had 2 employees go over my 4473s line by line whenever I have purchased a gun. I don't think it's anything to be offended by.

notorious
December 29, 2008, 03:21 AM
Gotta love the California only rules. Emissions and firearms.

starboard
December 29, 2008, 05:41 AM
A friend with a first generation iPhone was comparing the accuracy of its "pseudo-GPS" against another friend with a true GPS-enabled phone. The iPhone did pretty damn well in the urban area where we were.

It stands to reason that the "pseudo-GPS" application uses cell tower triangulation, but I don't know what happens behind the scenes -- e.g. is it the service provider that does the triangulation and then provide an API the application can use, or can the phone get timing deltas and tower IDs directly and then use some other API to compute tower locations, or indeed something else...

In any case, I readily believe that tower triangulation can work pretty well for police use if the service provider cooperates.

jorb
December 29, 2008, 10:08 AM
I believe its the "yellow" form having to be perfect. Stores have to be Santa like and check it twice.

Double Naught Spy
December 29, 2008, 10:24 AM
oops

HexHead
December 29, 2008, 10:30 AM
I remember when I bought a shotgun at Academy several years ago, the guy behind the counter had to get a manager and I had to be escorted to the register upfront with the gun. IIRC, the manager carried the gun to the cashier.
Sounds like just SOP what you went through, and no I didn't feel like a criminal. A large chain like that is going to have different procedures than the local gun store.

notorious
December 29, 2008, 11:29 AM
I don't mind the walking up to the front part at all. I wish they actually walked the gun up and out for me after the 10 day wait period too. It makes me feel like someone is carrying my stuff and that I, a gunowner, am getting the personal shopper and valet treatment.

BHP FAN
December 29, 2008, 12:50 PM
I think they are afraid you might rob the store or something.With the registered gun...you just bought...from them.Sigh.Doofi.The sad thing is,in order for this to be store policy,it probably has happened.

John828
December 29, 2008, 12:59 PM
It makes me feel like someone is carrying my stuff and that I, a gunowner, am getting the personal shopper and valet treatment.

Yeah, notorious, I wish I would have looked at it like that because that will probably be as close to Africa and having a gun bearer as I will ever get.

MT GUNNY
December 29, 2008, 01:15 PM
You Know whats funny about Company policies, Like Walking to the Register with Employee when Purchasing Firearms. When you bring in a Trade and you end up not trading and walk out with it (By Your self) Don't make sense! + the sign at the front that says "Actions Open" Non of the stores actions are Open (What Gives).

TxState101
December 29, 2008, 02:32 PM
I'm assuming it's a matter of theft.

Besides, the stores' firearms all have those ever vigilant trigger locks on them.

KBintheSLC
December 29, 2008, 02:41 PM
This is a funny story... anti-gunners selling guns... I don't get it...???

Anyway, my local Wal-Mart treats me like a criminal every time I go in there JUST FOR AMMO. They scrutinize me beyond reasonable levels, and are just plain rude. I could never figure out why they hate customers so much for buying what they are selling.
Anyway, I decided to pay the extra $0.50 per box and buy ammo from the gunshop. I won't even set foot in a Wal-Mart anymore. I would rather pay a little more to keep my dignity.

HoosierQ
December 29, 2008, 05:00 PM
Given the benefit of the doubt, I have been to poorly run gun shops that paid little attention to the 4473 and let people goof themselves up, resulting in a denial. I mean check it over, tell the guy his name probably is not "Mike" but "Michael" right? The event I witnesses they didn't bother to tell Mike not to use his nickname, called in "Mike" and the guy had to come back in 3 days or whatever. So it could be that these guys had been lax from a customer service perspective and got somebody 100% legit delayed for lack of careful attention to paperwork. Maybe the guy wasn't a 4473 "Nazi", just a careful bureaucrat.

Just saying, if you walked out with the gun, you walked out with the gun.

Old Navy
December 29, 2008, 09:00 PM
Academy policy is that a manager, not a clerk must finalize the transaction. They also are required to escort you to the checkout and out the door. I suppose they don't want you wandering around the ladies ski wear section with a shotgun. I just bought a pistol there because they are the ONLY ones who had the Bersa thunder uc that I wanted, for a fair price. I can live with that. I also bought a case of 500 rounds of ammo at a different Academy store a couple of weeks ago and they scanned the case at checkout and it rang up the price for a box of 50, not a case of 500. I could have gotten to them for over $100. but I like to do the right thing so I pointed it out to them. The checkout clerk didn't even say thanks, but I'd do the same thing again.

Matrix187
December 29, 2008, 09:44 PM
Whenever I go to Walmart they just chuck the Winchester White Boxes at me (not literally), and i'm on my way.

jhansman
December 29, 2008, 11:57 PM
My FFL is very careful about that form, dotting all I's and crossing Ts, since the feds showed up unannounced one day and did everything but bend him over. A week later, the state DOJ guys did the same thing (by now you can prolly guess what what state I'm in-no haters, please). He came up clean, but now he makes doubly sure. Can't blame him, but the ironic part is he only does transfers as a favor and makes little or nothing doing them. He sees it as his part in helping to get guns in the hands of those who (legally) want or need them.

John828
December 30, 2008, 12:46 AM
Given the benefit of the doubt, I have been to poorly run gun shops that paid little attention to the 4473 and let people goof themselves up, resulting in a denial. I mean check it over, tell the guy his name probably is not "Mike" but "Michael" right? The event I witnesses they didn't bother to tell Mike not to use his nickname, called in "Mike" and the guy had to come back in 3 days or whatever. So it could be that these guys had been lax from a customer service perspective and got somebody 100% legit delayed for lack of careful attention to paperwork. Maybe the guy wasn't a 4473 "Nazi", just a careful bureaucrat.

Just saying, if you walked out with the gun, you walked out with the gun.

Yeah, I can definitely see that in this economic environment. Why miss a sale because of a preventable screw up? If someone was delayed, he or she might just leave and never consummate the sale. That said, I had a CCL which is cash 'n carry. But still they have to have the 4473 a de facto registration process if one subscribes to incrementalism.

notorious
December 30, 2008, 05:30 AM
J Hansman, you are not one of us in the California Underground Resistance Effort (CURE), are you? If so, glad to make your acquaintance, Tovarishch.

Just a reminder, in Red Dawn, when the Russians and Cubans took the town, the Cuban colonel who was trained in America told his soldiers to search the gunstores for "FORM 4-4-7-3. It is a registry of gun owners and the types of firearms they have."

More accurate foreshadowing and prophesy cannot be found, even by Nostradamus!

misANTHrope
December 30, 2008, 09:13 AM
If someone was delayed, he or she might just leave and never consummate the sale.

I would say that somewhere in the neighborhood of 75% of the folks I dealt with who got delayed never came back. It was surprisingly common- I don't know if folks thought it was embarrassing, or were just annoyed, or what...

notorious
December 30, 2008, 02:27 PM
They're just doing their jobs... but there's a way to do a tough job in a nice way though.

jhansman
December 30, 2008, 02:37 PM
Yeah, Notorius, I am a Golden Stater and have joined the resistance. However, when the invaders (domestic or foreign) come for my guns, they will find an empty cabinet that appears to have been ripped open by thieves. ;)

notorious
December 30, 2008, 02:42 PM
You will have an empty cabinet?

When the enemies, foreign or domestic, start their campaign of terror... I won't even have an empty cabinet... it's going to be... guns? What guns? You mean this super soaker? Here, take it, confiscate it and get it off the streets by any means! I hate guns... yeah... that's the ticket....

GEM
December 30, 2008, 02:51 PM
Just a reminder, in Red Dawn, when the Russians and Cubans took the town, the Cuban colonel who was trained in America told his soldiers to search the gunstores for "FORM 4-4-7-3. It is a registry of gun owners and the types of firearms they have."


Right now, Cuban and Russian cyber experts have traced all gun owning posters on the Internet who said they were going to hide their weapons. The paratroopers will use deep scanning radar on your house and surroundings.

Then they will waterboard you with borscht until you tell the location of your guns.

I always marvel at those who announce their plans to hide their guns on the Internets. The ATF will use the Google and find you!! :eek:

notorious
December 30, 2008, 02:55 PM
The ATF won't need to google after the fact, they already have a national registry and it's updated constantly to keep afloat of the guns out there.

John828
December 30, 2008, 10:09 PM
Okay, I am currently on the TD Waterhouse site buying stock in Alcoa because obviously the demand for tin foil is rising.

OTOH, if "they" want "them" bad enough, "they'll" find a way to get them.

IBTL (never thought I would say that on my own thread)

ConstitutionCowboy
December 30, 2008, 10:46 PM
Right now, Cuban and Russian cyber experts have traced all gun owning posters on the Internet who said they were going to hide their weapons. The paratroopers will use deep scanning radar on your house and surroundings.

Then they will waterboard you with borscht until you tell the location of your guns.

Do you really think enough of them will reach the ground alive to carry out what you suggest?

Woody

Odd1
December 31, 2008, 12:11 AM
It never bothered me here when the guy at Academy walked me up to the counter with a firearm, it meant I did not have to wait in line.

First time it happened I found it funny. I used my concealed handgun license as ID to avoid the call in, so he fills out the paperwork, and smiles, telling me has to walk me to the counter and out the door, just in case I did something with the gun, company policy. He was grinning as he handed me back my concealed handgun license.

I don't blame him, he gets paid to do it.

notorious
December 31, 2008, 05:37 AM
Do you really think enough of them will reach the ground alive to carry out what you suggest?

Woody

Hey, they were in Georgia, weren't they? I heard the boys in Alabama were gearing up because they'll be damned if they let the Russians get to Montgomery!

GEM
December 31, 2008, 01:11 PM
Of course, they will reach the ground using the UFO technology that they have kept hidden for all these years.

Then they will join with the 59 million Red Chinese that are stored in container ships in the port of Los Angeles.

All of these have been posted on the Internet, so I believe them. They are waiting for the signal from Robot Joe Biden to attack.

Putin will rear his head over Sarah's house and that's that. Sarah will be too busy worrying about her daughter marrying into a drug dealer's family to save us.

Anyway, I went to Academy the other day - and they are almost out of ammo. See, we are being disarmed. :cuss:

Deltaboy
December 31, 2008, 02:45 PM
I have had no problems with Academy.

Mal H
December 31, 2008, 04:15 PM
Do I even have to enumerate the reasons why this thread is now being closed? Deltaboy's post is the only reasonable response to the original post in the last 24 hours.

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