.357 Magnum bullet possibility?


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grimjaw
December 27, 2008, 03:06 PM
I'm just trying to see if this combination is possible. I know there are .357 Magnum loads for 180gr bullets. If I was using a T/C G2 chambered for .357 Magnum, combined with this bullet:
Hornady InterLock Bullets 35 Caliber (358 Diameter) 180 Grain Spire Point Single Shot Pistol Box of 100
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=556754
http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/image?saleitemid=556754

would you anticipate any problems? Do you think there would be enough room for the crimp plus a decent, safe charge? Hodgdon lists anywhere from 1000-1400 fps out of a revolver. It'd be interesting to see if I could get another 200 fps or so out of a 16" barrel, plus slightly better oomph at long range due to the bullet design.

Any information is appreciated.

jm

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rcmodel
December 27, 2008, 03:15 PM
There should be no problem loading it, even if it is slightly over-size for a .357" bore.

The problem is, that it is a rifle bullet designed & constructed for the .358 Win, .350 Mag, 35 Whelen, .358 Norma Mag class cartridges.

I doubt it will expand much at the velocity you can get out of a .357 Mag pistol case.

rcmodel

grimjaw
December 27, 2008, 03:17 PM
Thanks rcmodel. I doubt I'd be hunting with it, just punching paper. It's more of an academic exercise, and a chance to compete with a buddy who reloads but doesn't like .357 Magnum. :)

jm

Envisaged
December 27, 2008, 03:17 PM
First off I have never loaded those particular bullets - but plenty of Laser Cast 180gr bullets. I didn't see the overall length listed of that bullet - maybe I missed it?

'Lil Gun is my go to powder for 158gr and up in .357 magnum loads. Must use magnum primers or you won't get full burn. I use 14.8gr of 'Lil Gun under the 180gr FN bullets - works excellent in my lever action. I chrono'd this load at 1780fps out of a 20" barrel.

If you need dims of the laser cast let my know and I will go out to the garage and find my box and give you the OAL of the bullet itself and where the cannelure(sp?) is.

MCgunner
December 27, 2008, 03:18 PM
Problems could occur with OAL, could be too long and have to be seated too deep to seat at the rifling properly in a TC barrel. Also, at the velocities you can drive it from a .357, might not expand, in fact, probably won't too well. What advantage would it have, BC? Well, the BC can't give it that much more range. I can push a XTP 180 Hornady to 1400 fps from a 6.5" revolver barrel. It's made for the velocities you can reach with it. I like to keep range inside 50 yards with the .357, don't care what bullet you use. You're running way low on juice out at extreme ranges like 100 yards in this caliber from a pistol barrel. I don't think a spitzer will help much, but get the BC of the bullet and run it against the 180 JHP and flat points. I could be off the mark, just my first impression. If it gives you any extra range, I still think, even if it would expand, it wouldn't be more than an extra 25 yards.

I'm pretty happy, really, with a plain old 158 SWC at 1470 fps out of a revolver. It has killed two for me and one at 80 yards out of a Rossi carbine. Re-read and see that you won't be hunting with it, so hell, try it and you tell us! LOL I don't see a huge advantage, but heck, you don't know until you try and a good exterior ballistics program is worth its weight for projects like this.

rcmodel
December 27, 2008, 03:22 PM
He's shooting it in a single-shot Contender, so it doesn't really matter where the cannulure is.

As the ogive starts right in front of the cannulure, any OAL should be fine.

rcmodel

ReloaderFred
December 27, 2008, 03:23 PM
If you go to the reviews on the link listed in the original post, you'll find that some people have been using that bullet for years in the TC. One reviewer said he called Hornady and they told him it would work, and he found that to be so.

I also load 180 grain cast bullets, and use Hodgdon's Lil'Gun in my Carbines. Excellent powder and very good accuracy. They do list loads for jacketed bullets weighing 180 grains, so data won't be a problem.

Hope this helps.

Fred

MCgunner
December 27, 2008, 03:28 PM
Man, I gotta try that lil gun stuff in my carbine. Is it too slow for revolvers? I've been intending this as my next reloading project, but haven't picked up a can, yet.

grimjaw
December 27, 2008, 03:36 PM
ReloaderFred, that's what I get for not doing enough research. Thanks for the tip. :)

It will definitely be restricted to single-shot only. After recently purchasing a couple of black powder single shots, the interest in rolling my own smokeless is becoming too much to bear. :D

jm

R.W.Dale
December 27, 2008, 03:47 PM
The problem is, that it is a rifle bullet designed & constructed for the .358 Win, .350 Mag, 35 Whelen, .358 Norma Mag class cartridges.


Read the item description a little more closely and you note that this bullet is the 180grn Hornady Single Shot Pistol bullet. A bullet designed with what the OP has in mind in that it'll expand rather well at the velocities his carbine would produce

This bullet used in full bore 35caliber rifles would behave in the same manner as the most fragile varmint bullets do.

MCgunner
December 27, 2008, 04:03 PM
Interesting. Wonder if it's basically the Lever evolution bullet without the mushy plastic tip?

R.W.Dale
December 27, 2008, 04:07 PM
this bullet has been around long before the Leverrevolution line was even a gleam in Hornady's marketing dpt's eye

243winxb
December 27, 2008, 04:46 PM
This bullet is made for a T/C contender in 35 rem. Not for a 357mag.

Brian Williams
December 27, 2008, 04:51 PM
I have some LRNFPGC that I cast and it has a seating depth of .425 from the base to the crimp groove. It has an OAL of .720 and it loads nicely over 15 gr of Lil' Gun. This load shoots well in both my 1894C Marlin and My S&W 581. I have shot it out of a S&W 65 with a 4" pencil barrel a few times but I prefer an L frame S&W.

R.W.Dale
December 27, 2008, 05:23 PM
This bullet is made for a T/C contender in 35 rem. Not for a 357mag.

in a carbine length bbl the velocity disparity will not be very much between a 357carbine vs a 35rem handgun. This bullet should preform well in both applications

243winxb
December 27, 2008, 05:26 PM
in a carbine length bbl the velocity disparity will not be very much between a 357carbine vs a 35rem handgun. This bullet should preform well in both applications
ya think he can push it to 2000fps?

R.W.Dale
December 27, 2008, 05:29 PM
ya think he can push it to 2000fps?

I've owned a 35 rem and 2000fps in a 14" or shorter handgun barrel is a pipe dream 1800fps would be much more realistic.

compared to 1500fps+ or - a few fps from a carbine in 357mag or better yet a 357max ream job. Either way not enough to put this bullet outside it's performance envelope at the shorter ranges you'd likely use the 357 at.

Just read this review

I used this bullet in a 10" Thompson 357 max. to take a 300 lb Pennsylyvania black bear. Penetrated both shoulders, found bullet under the hide on far shoulder. Mushroomed very well. Extremely deadly on whitetails in this caliber, they just drop in there tracks. Highly recommended, have held 4" groups at 200 yds with this bullet and the Thompson pistol.

a 10" max isn't going to be any faster than a 16" magnum

ReloaderFred
December 27, 2008, 05:34 PM
In the reviews on Midway's listing, it was used in .35 Remington and .357 Maximum. No one there mentioned .357 Magnum, so it may or may not work. Since grimjaw said it wouldn't be used for hunting, it can probably be used in his .357 Magnum TC barrel by just working up the loads. His paper targets won't complain about being hit with a bullet intended for another caliber, as long as it hits them accurately...

I've done some experimenting like that myself, and sometimes you hit a homerun and sometimes you strike out. You never know until you try. One of my experiments was running Winchester 115 grain FMJ bullets into a swaging die and making them flatpoints, so I could use them in my 9x25 Dillon, which requires a flat nose or hollowpoint bullet, with a straight shank. Turns out to be a supurbly accurate bullet in that caliber.

Hope this helps.

Fred

243winxb
December 27, 2008, 05:36 PM
funny, 30-30 t/c contender 10" bbl, 1960 fps average over Chronograph w/ 150gr sierra. In the 35 rem i am sure a little 110gr can do better.

R.W.Dale
December 27, 2008, 05:40 PM
unny, 30-30 t/c contender 10" bbl, 1960 fps average over Chronograph w/ 150gr sierra. In the 35 rem i am sure a little 110gr can do better.

That's quite a bit more velocity than I've been able to achieve with weight weight bullet in a 10"revolver...thus far. Mind sharing your load

FYI the bullet in question weight 180grs not 110

243winxb
December 27, 2008, 05:46 PM
type O ment 180gr, an no i wont share the 30-30 date, some fool will try it in a lever action. The powder used was IMR 4895. The 35 rem will run at 2000 fps with the 180gr. tag, your it lol

R.W.Dale
December 27, 2008, 05:49 PM
n no i wont share the 30-30 date, some fool will try it in a lever action.

so are you saying that it's an overload or you just concerned about the bullet profile?

243winxb
December 27, 2008, 05:53 PM
go here, look up max for a 30-30 using IMR 4895 with a 150gr bullet. http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm I worked up that load years ago.

243winxb
December 27, 2008, 05:55 PM
some fool will try it in a lever action.

R.W.Dale
December 27, 2008, 06:02 PM
go here, look up max for a 30-30 using IMR 4895 with a 150gr bullet. http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm I worked up that load years ago.

umm OK? that handgun load is a full 1.5grs LESS than hodgon's data FOR 30-30 rifles and carbines.

Whats the big deal about "some fool will try it in a lever action." you are aware that on the same sized case head a marlin or winchester can handle more pressure and breach thrust than a contender can.

243winxb
December 27, 2008, 06:07 PM
Whats the big deal about "some fool will try it in a lever action."
SOME 30-30 lever actions can not withstand the pressure. It would be unsafe. Plus Hodgdon site lists 30-30 150gr bullet with IMR 4895 @ 33.5 gr max. <<< CORRECT FROM WEBSITE. Still to hot for old 30wcf lever actions. Steve's pages lists 35.5 gr.MAXIMUM, overload for levers IMO

R.W.Dale
December 27, 2008, 06:09 PM
30-30 lever actions can not withstand the pressure. It would be unsafe.

AGAIN you are aware that on the same sized case head a marlin or winchester can handle more pressure and breach thrust than a contender can.

There's a reason a contender in 45/70 is only rated for trapdoor level loads.

MCgunner
December 27, 2008, 06:31 PM
There's a reason a contender in 45/70 is only rated for trapdoor level loads.

And I thought it was to keep the thing from implanting itself in your face upon firing. :D I don't mind recoil, normal recoil, but .45/70 handguns scare me. :D

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