[icebones]

ok, lets assume for whatever reason, that you are no longer able to acess forearms. such as myself, stuck here in south korea:cuss:. anyway, what would you arm yourself with? keep in mind that these weapon must be commly avalible. (no lightsabers please)

myself? well i have here in my room...
-kershaw vapor
-buck 110
-gerber gaurdian backup
-gerber applegate/fairbarin stealth
-some old aluminum baseball bat i bought from one of my buddies a few weeks ago
-a few hand darts, not shure if they would make a decent weapon, but i still wouldnt want to get hit with one...

---so lets hear it. be resourceful, be imaginitive. if all the firearms in the world were gone (including bows, becuase im pretty shure they are banned here too) what would you reach for? the classic steel pipe? a crowbat? a chainsaw? lets hear it...

[shiftyer1]

I've always liked the 6 cell maglite.

[mike6975]

how do you hold the knives with no "forearms", sorry just caught that on your thread.:evil:

[ken2]

how can bows be illegal? korea has some of the best archers in the world.

[Carl Levitian]

Living in The Peoples Republik Of Maryland, I can't carry any firearm. The state police won't issue a CCW unless you're very closely related to somebody in Annapolis. I can have in the home, transport to and from a authorized shooting range only.

I have been in the army, and I remember not having acsess to firearms. I made do with other things. Impact weapons are many. Cross pen in pocket, Tire presure gauge, go in the pocket easy. A nice large cresent wrench in the car, or a socket handle in reach are good.

For cutlery items, I stuck with my old Buck 110. It was ubiquitous back then, going for 12 dollars at the PX. Everybody had one on thier belt. I'd stick to common knives that are utility in design. Leave out the double edge killer knives that a provost marshall can make a case out of.

If you go off hiking someplace, a stout hiking stick may pass off under the radar. Unfortunatly, being a young fit soldier, you can't get away with carrying a stout walking stick or cane.

In 2000, I was getting tired of motorcycling, but had never taken a complete coast to coast trip. I went without a firearm as there was no place to lock up a handgun on a H-D sportster, and I was planning to stop at several historic sites. Bent's Old fort, the Browning museum, Lewis and Clarl's winter quarters, the Mountain man museum in Colorado. I went armed, but no guns. I had a knarly blackthorn walking stick stuck under the bungi cords on my T-bag, a 12 inch Ontario machete in my camping gear, A Buck 110 sharpened up good on my belt, and a can of pepper spray.

I go with an impact weapon first, small 4 inch or under knife as backup.

I'm envyous of people who live where they can carry, but after a lifetime of not being able to, I'm sort of used to it.

Just make sure, whatever you use, there's a reasonable explanation for having it.

Since your in Korea, are there any old guys walking around with rattan canes?

[Geno]

This is precisely why the martial arts were developed. All weapons were made illegal. For the past 30 years of TKD study and instruction, I have taught that your body and brain are your primary weapon.

[notorious]

I'd get a high quality portable flashlight like the Surefire Defender line which are useful as impact tools and also to blind assailants. A good smack with the strike bezel on the forehead or forearm (in your case) would deter even the most determined thugs.

In your situation, I would probably stay away from knives because foreign jurisdictions might not like knives much as they are still very weapon-esque. Check first before carrying a knife.

If allowed, then I would go with a small folder that can be disguised as an utilitarian knife such as a simple buck folder.

Walking sticks, canes, umbrellas and such can be carried in full public plain view anywhere and are as lethal as anyting else if you know what to do with it.

A roll of quarters in a closed hand also work well as an improvised brass knuckle. If you really want to up the ante, put the roll inside a sturdy athletic sock as a sap. Guaranteed to knock a few teeth out with a good whack. A bar of soap works in a sock too if you don't have quarters.

Lastly, don't ever underestimate a good steel toed boot. There's a reason why it's considered Assault with Deadly Weapon when you kick someone in the head with a boot, multiplied with steel caps and you got a good weapon.

How's that for starters?

P.S. I have a 9" bolo machete and other stuff for my non-firearm inventory.

[sherman123]

I wouldn't want to take a steel toer boot to the head but I would still rather go without them. That's just me though although I think they'd be great on a downed but no yet out opponent who is still poyentially a threat. I would go without them becuase they slow down kicks I could be using on a still standing opponent. Then again any shoes slow you down but I'm rarely barefoot.

[Doc_Jude]

Long bow, too many knifes to speak of, from goloks & bolos, machetes to khukris to tantos to SAKs. Spears, even. Rattan Baston, white oak bokuto, rokushakubo, the list goes on...

That & the bayonets for my M590 & Mosin Nagant...

[notorious]

I wouldn't want to take a steel toer boot to the head but I would still rather go without them. That's just me though although I think they'd be great on a downed but no yet out opponent who is still poyentially a threat. I would go without them becuase they slow down kicks I could be using on a still standing opponent. Then again any shoes slow you down but I'm rarely barefoot.

Have you tried the new duty boots for police that have steel toes or even the reinforced nylon toes one for those whose department regs forbid steel toes? They are amazingly light and easy to wear because they are made for cops on the beat.

[06]

I never intend to be without something that can extend my reach or increase my striking force. Be it firearm(preferable), stick of some kind, and edged weapons. You can combine the later and end up with an effective spear. I cannot concieve of ever being without one of the three under normal circumstances. wc

[Todd A]

Actually steel toes are not that bad,'cept in winter when the caps freeze.

I wear them almost all the time, it is a requirement at work, so I got used to them.

I can still kick my homemade heavy bag fast and hard with them on. But all my kicks are groin level and lower,no fancy movie kicks for me. Since they are what I will most likely be wearing,I practice to fight with them on.


Ohh...and they don't slow me down in a sprint that much either ;)

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

My non fire-arm arsenal is my room. :D

[shotgunjoel]

A nice heavy club, like a wrench or something solid like that.

[notorious]

How about a 4,000 pound projectile traveling at 100fps? Oh wait... you're in S. Korea... how about a 1,500 pound projectile traveling at... whatever metres it is per second.

[4v50 Gary]

I've got a bow and a crossbow. I have a sidehandle baton and a nightstick. I also have some knives.

Best of all, I've got blackpowder too.

[sidheshooter]

Optimum?

Layered defense: Cell phone, Asp baton, OC spray, stout folder (ie; Emerson CQC-8), long blade (ie: Cold Steel Natchez bowie).

Realistic?

Layered defense: Cell phone, Walking stick (ie: blackthorn) mag light (I prefer the longest c-cell, it swings faster), stout folder that passes legal muster (? maybe a spyderco, or a CQC-7 if legal, or something made locally), finally, perhaps a functional (sharp and sturdy) traditional ornamental korean short sword in a display rack on the wall or mantle...?)

Frankly, I think you've got it covered, so far as edged weaponry goes. Add a long, cop-esque flashlight (in a pretty color, like anodized purple) and you're there. I might not like it, but I could probably investigate a bump in the night with your A-F stealth and a crunchy flashlight... as an aside, how does body armor go over in Korea, btw? :)

Good luck.

[Travis Bickle]

In third world countries where ownership of firearms is heavily restricted and/or too expensive for the average citizen, the machete seems to be quite popular. I'm sure there are good reasons for this.

[Travis Bickle]

Machetes are popular in countries where voter suppression at the point of a machete is also popular. I don't know if ROK is like that.

This is a good point, but it raises the question as to exactly what you need a weapon for, anyway. Oriental counties tend to be orderly and law abiding to an almost pathological degree.

[icebones]

yea the old rattan canes...

i saw a few guys carring those canes, when we went off base on down time for some local chow, i guess they were maybe peace officers or citizen-cops, or volinteers or something. its funny, as far as i know the korean police only carry revolvers too, .38's i think, but ive never actually seen anyone carring one.

i know when we go TDY up to oson to pick up ordinance we are required to carry an M9, and i do get some funny stares when we stop to answer natures call or get some food 'n fuel. i always though it ironic that south korea has manditory 2 years military service for all physically fit males between 18 and 30, yet ordinary citizens who most of whom have military service cant be "trusted" to own firearms...? crazy world we live in indeed.

[icebones]

and as far as orential regions being peaceful, well maybe, but japan was prepared to arm children with sharpened babboo sticks to kill american GI's in WWII, technically the korean war never ended, we are just in a cease fire (armistice) and oh yea, ever heard of the yakuza? i agree, most asain places are very peaceful and almost all of the nationals here are very police and friendly people. but no matter where you go there is always some who act a fool and do wrong...

[icebones]

:Doh thats great... glad in not in the army:D
in an Airman First Class:D

sorry buddy couldnt resist.

[ChronoCube]

Pole arms are good IMO. A staff is easy to come by. I don't think there's too many legal restrictions against against carrying your gardening tool or closet pole around. I've carried one around Berkeley, CA, with no incident, so I would assume it's legal in many places.

One level up would be a spear/halberd/naginata. These are not very good for indoor use, and not practical for daily carry. They're illegal to carry in many places.

If firearms were banned, I'd also consider a three section staff as well. It's a very versatile flail weapon. You can fold it up and conceal it in your sporting bag. However, I have not used one so I can't say much more.

[goon]

If bows are banned too, I'll take a sling shot with a pocket full of ball bearings or .36 caliber lead balls.

Before too long I'm hoping to be able to afford another sword as well - probably a single hander (Type XII maybe) and a buckler to keep it company. But truthfully, if you're needing something for close contact work you might be better off with something shorter - maybe a short falchion instead of the sword.
I'm not considering my sword (hopefully) as a weapon per se, just because I want one. But I've had enough of them to know that they're potentiall very dangerous. A sharp sword will cut soft tissue like you wouldn't believe - literally like a laser. I could see one easily taking an arm or leg right off.
Maybe something like a cold steel 1917 cutlass would work for that kind of use as well.

I'd also consider a poll-axe. It was one of the most effective weapons they could come up with at the time and allowed a "nobody" to latch on to a knight on a horse, yank him to the ground, and thoroughly smash him. Unweildy in close but if you have distance I don't think you could do much better.

Do you own a walking stick?
Mine is a five foot tall piece of birch that's about 1.25" in diameter that I cut myself last summer. It's stout as hell but not at all heavy. I carry it when I walk or hike because it helps me keep my footing in rough terrain but I know for a fact that they can be a very effective weapon. I used a similar one when I was about 10 to hold a 140 pound Rottwieller at bay until the moron owner realized that I was going to kill his dog with it and finally decided to get control of it. Say what you will, but I highly doubt that any 10 year old could have practically done that with any other weapo (because you ain't going to give your 10 year old pepper spray or a gun).
Word on the street is that the old-tyme masters considered a quarter staff to be effective enough for defense to hold two swordsmen at bay so that also says something for them. Do a little google work and you should be able to find some free training material for them.
http://www.drizzle.com/~celyn/jherek//Quarterstaff.pdf
Also, I'm only 28 but no one has ever questioned my using a walking stick, even when I'm just walking along the highway. I'd say that it's one of the most practical non-firearm choices I can think of. Especially if it's home-made. No one is intimidated by a knobby looking stick.

In your home keep a large chef's knife handy.
During the revolution riflemen often carried what amounted to a large chef's or butcher knife as a back up weapon (since most rifles couldn't accept a bayonet).
There are some good, but price reproductions here:
http://www.olddominionforge.com/knives.html .
I'm currently making something similar out of a solingen butcher knife blade that I ground down and browned in a mixture of onions, vinegar, and salt to give it a patina. The handle is finished and will be pinned on the next day I get that isn't any good for anything else.

[Loomis]

A big knife...like a machete or a kukri.

[glockman19]

If legal a crossbow seems to be a good alternative to a gun. Knives have their place. As Doc said, Martal Arts and Self Defense are great to study.

[Dr.Rob]

I think a lot of us have a small collection of edged weapons of some kind..

Well before I had my own firearms I had pocket knives, folders and the odd costume piece made in India of dubious metallurgy or a well worn bayonet found as a surplus shop. (I KNOW in my garage is a box FULL of costume knives with cast aluminum handles and such, none of which has any value whatever, and a couple of costume swords in my 'prop/costume dock.)

These days, I can afford better. I still have my first "real' knife a Cold Steel tanto that I bought when I was 17 to use as a hunting knife.. and a few others. I still like to hunt, throw tomohawks, carve sticks and cook.

I was shocked at what 'real' chef's knives cost. You might blink at the price of a nepalize spring steel katana, but you obviously haven't priced a sushi knife of late. :scrutiny:

I've owned all manner of blades, still found a swiss army 'huntsman' about the most useful I've ever owned. The best skinning knife I ever used was a Buck "skinner" (still a $40 knife).

Some cheap knives (Cold Steel Bushman-also a great skinner) are very interesting. Some expensive knives (Hibben comes to mind) seem utterly pointless.

I've never bayonetted anything other than pumpkins and such, but bayonets (under 6 inches) make pretty darn useful, durable knives and can be had 'on the cheap.'

Arsenal? More like a tool box.

[JShirley]

There are two different questions that might be being answered here. The first question is what items can be used as weapons during our normal lives, should weapons restrictions be tight. The second question is, what weapons can be used during societal breakdown or in the wilderness.

Carl has a pretty good list. Impact weapons are good. I'm a big fan of small flashlights and water bottles for "invisible" but useful defensive tools that are useful even if you're not defending.

If you're out in the middle of nowhere, or in an open conflict area where anything goes, spears are easy to improvise and deadly against anything that doesn't outrange you. Improvised slings are deadly, but take practice to use well.

This is precisely why the martial arts were developed. All weapons were made illegal.

Well...not precisely. This is why at least one art- Karate- was developed. TKD was developed by a karate black belt. Most of the Asian martial arts of which we're aware supposedly started as a system of exercise for monks, but rapidly grew into a defensive system as well, incorporating various weapons. All sword and weapon arts not specifically designed solely for show are, by definition, martial arts. Instruction in firearms usage is also a martial art.

John

[goon]

And many western martial arts were developed specifically for use with weapons.
MS 1.33 comes to mind.

[notorious]

Not quite entirely accurate... Karate (empty hand), especially the Okinawan variants like Goju-Ryu, were developed specifically because the Japanese ruling class banned all peasants from having ANY weapons of any sort.

That's why we have the weapons we do today like the Tonfa (mortar handle), the nunchaku (rice thresher), sickle (sickle), and all the various wood sticks because they can be disguised as walking sticks or load bearing sticks by farmer peasants.

[Carl Levitian]

The stick is probably the most disguised weapon in history. Easy to make/find/use, it can't be outlawed. That would mean every shovel, rake, hoe, broom, mop, wheel barrow, and tree would have to be regulated.

If one were to take some training in stick fighting, either from a formal martial arts studio, or military, you would have in your head something nobody could ever take from you. The knowledge of how to defend yourself with something that is all around you every single day of the week. A chair rung, butt end of a pool que, a towel rack pulled off a wall, piece of a tree limb. Sticks, in one form or another, are all around us. Short sticks, like chop sticks and minimag flashlights, and sturdy pens, can be carried out of sight and totally under radar. If found on you, they are in no way incriminating of any kind of hostile intent.

Longer sticks, like a stout walking stick, short hiking stick, can very easily be passed off. An old/new sports injury, activities like hiking.

The single most important thing is to look normal. People take notice of things that don't look right. They remember them. Some of those people are cops or MP's or AP's. I understand the original poster is living on a military base. Having been in that position, there is a very limited number of items that can be kept on hand. I don't know if they still do, but when I was in, they had periodic sweeps called "health and wellfare" inspections. In short, you were kept outside of your barracks, called in one by one, and the CID tore your locker apart looking for "illeagal items" that could be drugs, weapons, whatever. They would even search our cars.

As a young single soldier, I had to learn to hide in plain sight. Learn to utilize the ordinary and mundane items in life for my own use. As I liked to go hiking, fishing, camping, my platoon sargent got used to my nice handmade hiking stick being around. A nice piece of strait hickory about lower rib high, gave me a strong weapon about the size of a riot baton. I had a cord wrap handle on one end, a rubber table end on the other, and nobody gave it a second glance. It was short enough to go almost un-noticed, but was a handy thing to have.

I had an old VW beatle that I worked on to keep running. At least thats what they thought. The bug was great, but I made a point of letting them see me out on the parking lot in front of the barracks messing with it enough, that if I had a screwdriver in my pocket, or a medium adjustable wrench, I'd tell them the bug was acting up again. It slid right on through. Sargent Koeller was telling to go buy a real car. I'd just knod, and say "Yeah, I may have to do that!" And I'd just walk away with my screwdriver in my pocket.

In that era, EVERYBODY had a Buck 110 on thier belt. It was the standard PX knife. Being in the engineers, it was used on the construction site every day. When we went on the town, it went along. It was part of me. It gave me a nice blade to cut with, but as important, it made a very nice blunt force impact tool. That big brass frame and butt end was wicked. I even cracked a coco-nut once on a bet with it. Blunt force is way better than cutting or stabbing someone. Draws way less attention from authorities, cleaner with no blood on yourself, and with all the blood born stuff around I sure don't want it on me.

But the biggest thing to keep in mind like a mantra, is that it just fit in with your life. Fit to the point of invisable. To the point that if your C.O., boss in civilian life, some cop at the coffee shop on a slow day, see's you with it, it won't make the slightest blip on his radar.

The most common mundane items can be used outside the box. Some training and knowledge goes a long way.

[notorious]

Good post! Being incognitio and blending in is the best form of invisibility.

[CZ.22]

Okay. In my room, I don't have any guns (I live in the basement of my parents house) but I have:
On the nightstand:
Cell phone.
3 D Maglite.
24" piece of thick oak dowel.
Glock knife.
Around room"
2 staffs/sticks
Box full of various blades- but you have to get into it by unlatching some stuff
Easy to access Mora SMK, Spyderco Endura, and Benchmade 530
Cold Steel Pole Axe
Cheapo reproduction sword
Cheapo reproduction 1917 Trench Knife- very sharp and pointy though
Books for throwing
Topple-able bookshelves
Lightweight chair that can be used as a blocking device
Gamo air rifle and pellets- if I have time to load this, a burglar must weigh close to 600 kilos

[Heck]

I have a pretty sweet hammer

[notorious]

I have a rubber mallet for those instances where the burglar comes in and has a roll pin that he needs punched.

[Mp7]

got 2 spearheads, a khyber-sword, a glock Fighting knife, a dart-blowgun, a mini louisville slugger, and about 100 other blades lying around.....

[bobby n.]

ive knives, 2 short swords, and a
few crossbow pistols , slingshots, ,\ an atlatl and a few spears, a few bows arrows a pitchfork and two dogs and if none of those work i got a menopause crazed wife i can sic on someone, very dangerous too

[melrinh_13]

i would use a bow, but because you most likely cannot, the darts can be an amazing lifesaver. i personally don't want to kill anyone, i would rather knock out, or tie an attacker down. i have many wooden poles in my room, a computer mouse can be a mace, improvising is always a good idea; i've been broken into many times, and i have use small explosives, made with batteries, and twice i've used CO2 cartridges. the small CO2's burn, and produce shrapnel, which can cause many a foe to fall to his knees. the CO2 can also become a quickly improvised ranged weapon with a pen or dart. press the pen or dart into the pin on the CO2 cartdridge, careful not to freezeburn yourself. [it hurts] weights are OK weaponry when 10+lbs. a hit to the chest with 25lbs. can easily knock the air out of some big people.

[RatDrall]

Most Americans have way too much confidence in guns. I realized that a few months ago and started studying a system that combines **** and Silat.

I wouldn't feel unarmed if I had a detailed knowledge of terrain (corners, light patterns etc. in your home) and had a rattan stick or two, or a short sword or large knife. A home invader can't use their handgun or knife if their arm is broken, or if the connective tissue is cut, or the limb is severed and lying on the floor.

I might order one of these:

http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=291

Or this:

http://traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/Barong.html

[notorious]

Just got a Fenix PD30 flashlight. That strobe function is pretty disorienting. If I look at it while using it, I get disoriented as well.

Kinda small for a blunt weapon but it'll do in a pinch.

[PA Freedom]

Great information here! It's more than a coincidence that the Buck 110 and large Maglite are mentioned so much. Not only are these commonly available, they are extremely effective. No matter how popular Surefires and "modern" tactical folders become, these two old warriors will still be commonplace among ordinary people. Another one of my favorites is a heavy padlock on a doubled-up bandanna, in my back left pocket. Also, like already said, training is great if you can get it.

[gallowglas]

In household

one two handed falchion type sword by bed
one battle axe on other side of dresser
one double bitted more for show ax by other door
folding bayonet in nightstand
double edge dagger suitable for throwing on computer desk
folder in my pocket (legal in my state) more of a tool
packet of throwing knifes on bookshelf (still working on hitting with those)
boot knife in car on passenger seat when driving (size legal and not concealed)
karabit knife being sharpened. not carrying until sure of law.

All are razor sharp and those are mine, not my husband's or my childrens' who have their own arsenal.

[notorious]

I have a ceremonial lightsaber on top of my TV.

[TimboKhan]

Aside from the small arsenal of guns hidden here and there about my house, I don't have a whole lot of non-gun weapons that are specifically meant to be non-gun weapons. I have a Kukhri in my closet and a ka-bar by my chair, and that is really about it. I also have a bat.

For the non-gun weapons (not counting pocket knives, as none are specifically viewed as weapons only) thats pretty much it. I have many other things that could be used as weapons, to include brooms, guitars, tools, kitchen knives, rolling pin etc.. that could fill that role.

[notorious]

I always liked the rolling pin.