.380 face off


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Carbon_15
December 27, 2008, 09:37 PM
I have been thinking about buying my wife a .380. Its here favorite caliber, but we are without one now for several reasons. Ammo is expensive, and I already have too many calibers to reload as it is. But I think if I get her one she will go shooting with me more often. I have been thinking about the Sig 232 and the Beretta 84. We had a Beretta Cheetah a long time ago and it was VERY accurate and she loved it, but it jamed alot, so I sold it. How do the 232 and 84 compare in accuracy and reliability.
It would just be a range toy for now...untill I can talk here into getting her CCL

Thanks,
Jason

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Marcus L.
December 27, 2008, 10:00 PM
I don't have any experience with the Beretta, but I have a P232 that I have put about 5000rds through(about 3000rds FMJ, about 2000rds JHP). I find it to be a trustworthy pistol with very good accuracy and good handling for a .380 pistol. Nothing negative to say about the pistol other than the direct blowback design which recoils a bit and is more sensitive to ammo and limp wristing. However, it is the best of the blow back designs in my opinion. Competators would be the Bersa, CZ 83, Makarov, and Walther PPK, which have hit or miss records.

I work as an armorer for the Department of Interior and have processed probably 15-20 P230s/P232s a year for maintenance and repair. The only parts I have replaced on them consistantly are bent roll pins which occur from excessive dry firing without snap caps. Use snap caps to dry fire(A-zooms are great) and there isn't a problem. Other problems I've encountered such as feeding issues are usually corrected with a new recoil spring, or teaching the shooter to not limpwrist. Recoil springs should be replaced every 2500rds or every 4 years on the P230/P232(which ever comes first). Direct blow back pistols are more depended on spring tension than other designs. As far as ammunition goes, most JHPs will work just fine. I have had some feeding issues with Ranger Talons though. Stick with Hornady 90gr XTP if you can, or Hornady FTX Critical Defense.

Great .380 pistol though if you want a small carry piece that still has enough grip and weight to it to handle well and ensure that you can shoot well. I prefer to carry my P239 9mm off duty, but when I need something a little smaller and lighter I'll carry the P232.

MICHAEL T
December 28, 2008, 12:04 AM
Bersa Thunder less then 300 and relieable. A PPK/S type but not a true clone.
http://bersatalk.com

colt1903
December 28, 2008, 12:23 AM
I have had both a Beretta and the SIG. Both are reliable and accurate, no problem there. The SIG might be slightly smaller and easier to conceal. My current favortie .380 is the Walther PPK:

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll17/colt1903/010-9.jpg

It is smaller and easier to conceal than either the SIG orthe Beretta and is also very accurate; top torso shot at 21 feet, bottom torso shot at 31 feet:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll17/colt1903/002-6.jpg

All three pistols should be plentiful at a well stocked gun shop. See what fits best.

Runningman
December 28, 2008, 12:25 AM
Hard to go wrong with the P232.

Snowdog
December 28, 2008, 12:40 AM
I like the .380acp a lot as well... likely because it was the cartridge my first handgun was chambered in.
My wife greatly prefers my K9 9mm over any of my handguns in .380acp and 9x18 as the recoil is far more pleasant. As Marcus mentioned, the blowback design you find used by most .380 handguns provides for a relatively sharp and snappy recoil. The K9, being a locked breech, has a mellow recoil despite the more powerful 9x19 cartridge. However, I still greatly enjoy the cartridge and a Colt Mustang is still on my list.

Auburn1992
December 28, 2008, 12:45 AM
Just picked up an 84. I've heard their accuracy was outstanding, as well as their quality.

THis is all from others as I've yet to shoot mine. BUT, I feel you really cannot go wrong with the Beretta, and especially how ncely it fits the hand.

gglass
December 28, 2008, 01:21 AM
I picked up one of these post-recall LCP's and could not be happier. I thought I was buying a belly-gun, but this little guy stays accurate out to 15-yards... Who knew?

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6264/mylcpin1.jpg

kitsapcharly
December 28, 2008, 02:00 AM
For shooting a Bersa 380 is hard to beat in any of its variations. Good gun, good price. For carry a Kel-Tec hides better than anything but recoil is very snappy.:)

MMMike
December 28, 2008, 02:09 AM
My favorite 380. :D

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii80/mmmike_photos/Colt4v.jpg

innerpiece
December 28, 2008, 02:15 AM
I know,I know.... Ill be a bit out of place here by saying that Id put a bit more in yer wifes hands than a .380......

I used to have one to.. but now the smallest pistol calber Ill allow in our house is a 9mm.

And yes, I do all kinds of backyard tests to find out what works on what.. a .380 really dosent do alot, serious. I dont say it out of any other reason then for you to convince yer wife to try out something just a bit more powerfull.
Ill also mention that I havent shot a .380 that was less snappy than the most compact 9mm Ive shot.

Sunray
December 28, 2008, 02:34 AM
"...but it jammed a lot..." Mags or ammo causes jams. If you don't want to reload, you have to try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo the pistol both shoots well and cycles the action. The price of said ammo means nothing either.
"...so I sold it..." You don't get the choose what she uses or can shoot well. It has to fit her hand and her skill level, not you. Take her shopping for a firearm that fits her hand, she likes and can shoot well. Makes it her gun, not your's or ours.
And don't get PO'd when she shoots anything better than you. It's normal.

usp9
December 28, 2008, 08:02 AM
IMHO, both the Beretta and the Sig are excellent choices. If you are looking more for a range gun, then the Beretta may be the better pick. You said you had the Beretta 84... but a more direct comparison to the Sig would be the model 85.

All Of my Sigs and all of my Berettas have been very reliable, with the nod to the Berettas.

Both models are about equal in accuracy. Both easy to take-down and clean.

IMO the Beretta has the superior trigger action.

The Sig may be a tad easier to rack the slide, (trigger cocked first).

A hard choice to make. I shoot both routinely and enjoy them both very much. This is a comparison thread with two winners.

Good luck.

Carbon_15
December 28, 2008, 08:05 AM
And don't get PO'd when she shoots anything better than you. It's normal

That happens alot :D

Its not really about recoil...her second favorite caliber/gun is my Smith 27 .357. Its more about the way a mid-size .380 fits her hand.
And while the Bersa, LCP and Walther are nice guns, its going to be eiher the Beretta or the Sig. She has been checking out these 2 in the local gunshop for a while now.

Mr_Rogers
December 28, 2008, 11:46 AM
Both good. Sig stainless better.

mgregg85
December 28, 2008, 07:24 PM
I've got a P3AT and a sig P232, both work great but I end up carrying the P3AT most of the time because of the size of the P232.

Avoid the Little Copy Pistol and you will save yourself time in trying to find one, P3ATs are easily available and cheaper.

357sigRog
December 28, 2008, 08:18 PM
I love my Bersa Thunder 380. Great little gun and like Michael T said under $300. Very accurate gun and hard to beat in my opinion.

KC0QGL
December 28, 2008, 08:34 PM
I love my Bersa Thunder 380.

Same here, been CCing mine for over a year, It's never let me down.

eng23ine
December 28, 2008, 10:30 PM
Looking for small? Keltec P3AT

Looking for a fun plinker? Bersa

Looking to spend more $$ than you need to? LCP or a nice little colt.


I went with the Keltec and have not looked back.

Darth AkSarBen
December 28, 2008, 11:45 PM
Bersa Thunder is a very nice pistol, well made and accurate. Did I mention accurate?
http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/guns/bersa_380_5shot.jpg

Pilot
December 29, 2008, 08:03 AM
The Berettas are among the best .380's out there. Big for the caliber, expensive, but excellent. Love my M85FS.

DrLaw
December 29, 2008, 08:44 AM
I used to carry a Mauser HSc as an off-duty gun. Never felt naked with it. Never really felt undergunned with it, either. I don't think I would feel naked or undergunned with any of the guns mentioned here. If you can get used to the idea of the grip safety keeping SHTF, a Browning 1910 is not a bad idea, either. Come to think of it, neither is a Colt. John Browning used to keep one of his 1910's in his pocket and shoot it on a regular basis from what I've read.

The Doc is out now. :cool:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb53/DrLaw45/HSc.jpg

wnycollector
December 29, 2008, 09:02 AM
A buddy of mine has a Beretta 84...what a sweet shooting pistol! Its not a small .380, but its nice comforting handfull with 14 rounds of .380;)

Mad Magyar
December 29, 2008, 09:11 AM
or teaching the shooter to not limpwrist.
Until you stated this, was much in agreement with your opinion...

benderx4
December 29, 2008, 09:13 AM
CZ83 or Sig 232

(The Walther is a beast!)

BillH
December 31, 2008, 09:10 AM
Sig P232 or Browning BDA 380, both about the same size

krs
December 31, 2008, 11:36 AM
Colt is good..http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p263/twagger/guns/380Colt.jpg
it's a hair....not a scratch :)

krs
December 31, 2008, 11:38 AM
Colt is good...http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p263/twagger/guns/1903_380c.jpg

krs
December 31, 2008, 11:40 AM
OK, OK,.Sig is good too..http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p263/twagger/guns/232SIG.jpg

krs
December 31, 2008, 11:42 AM
Colt is best...http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p263/twagger/guns/Colt_1903_380_nickelivory2.jpg

UnTainted
December 31, 2008, 11:59 AM
I'll put in a vote for the Sig 232. Extremly accurate gun, and mine's been 100% reliable. Some 232 porn to accompany... (sorry bout the distracting weapon in the background to which the 232 is a backup, just focus on the 380).

http://i12.tinypic.com/4m7anh2.jpg

Girodin
December 31, 2008, 05:59 PM
Looking to spend more $$ than you need to? LCP or a nice little colt.

Spending more for the colt is like spending more than you need to for a mercedes when you could just buy a hyundai. Yes your spending more but getting significantly more too IMO. I'm yet to find a pocket pistol I like as much as the mustang. The Sig is a nice gun, and gorgeous to look at, but if i wanted something its size I would go with a nine. Same story for the Bersa great gun but too big for a pocket pistol IMO.

I have nothing against the P3AT and think it can make a solid pocket pistol for the money but it is not close to the same class as the mustang in the following areas:

Fit and Finish: just look at both next to each other some time.

Out of the box reliability: A pistol isn't worth much when it is being sent to the manufacture. Also my mustang required no fluff and buff or break in it has run well from shot one. It didn't require filing down the mag release to avoid dropping the mag. It doesn't have a forum dedicated to fixing its factory deficiencies. The Kel tec can be a good gun but one needs to be prepaired to get it running right.

Recoil: I often hear complaints centering around the snappy recoil of small .380s. Many people don't like to shoot many rounds through them for that reason. The catch phrase seems to be they are made to be carried a lot and shot very little. The problem is that if I am potentially staking my life on something I want to be proficient with it. The mustang's locked breach results in a pistol that is very pleasant to shoot. I run out of ammo before I tire of shooting it.

Sights: The stock sights are way better on the Mustang IMO and one has the ability to add nice novak night sights which are better any I have seen for the kel tec.

This maybe a personal thing but the Mustang is much easier for me to shoot well. I think it is related to some of the above points and the fact the mustang is single action vs a long, heavy and not particularly smooth trigger pull (this can be improved upon of course but still) on the DAO kel tec.

The Kel tec is the big winner on price and availability. If one is not constrained by price they can buy a better weapon. The kel tec is a serviceable weapon once it is made to be or proven reliable but to pretend one is not getting more with other some other more expensive guns is silly.

I am interested to see what the Khar .380 is like when it comes out. The high prices of the mustang and limited availability may make it the best choice of the lot if it proves a solid preformer.

Bill B.
December 31, 2008, 07:39 PM
I have owned both and both are fine .380's. I still own the Sig though mine is the 230. I prefer the Sig but if I was planning on my wife carrying I might go with the Beretta becasue of the safety. As far as accuracy and function it would be hard to pick one over the other.

gglass
December 31, 2008, 10:33 PM
I never cease to be amazed at the small-minded opinions of small caliber weapons. I realize that opinions are like a## holes and everyone has one, but caliber size as always means less than placement.

.380 Performance:

James Bond never seemed to have a problem.

Seriously... The .380 cal round is also known as the 9mm short. It is a 9 x 17mm round as compared to the popular 9 x 19mm luger round. It has an average muzzle velocity of around 950 fps compared to the average 9mm lugar's 1050 fps.

In FBI ballistics testing .380 acp rounds penetrated bare ballistic gelatin to an average of 12.5 inches and clothed gelatin to an average of 14 inches. The average expansion of most tested JHP hollow points was .48 inch.

Lethal? According to FBI accepted minimums for stopping force the .380 ACP is well within department ballistic standards. Many European LE departments still issue .380 sidearms as standard issue, and many US LEO's use .380's as their BUGs.

With good shot placement, the .380 acp JHP round can be as effective as a .45 acp round. The only magic bullet is a hit to the Central Nervous System and this can be achieved with almost any caliber including the lowly .22 LR.
This is a very current LEO's encounter with a perp that took 17 Center mass hits with a .40 caliber Glock, but none hit the CNS sweet spot. http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-articles/articles/lom/0412/the_peter_soulis_incident.html;jsessionid=10BDC02F0CF4D0B083E43EA06A47B949pital

The moral of my rant: Learn to shoot well, and practice pressure drills... Even as a civilian.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6060/380acphssl7.jpg

Tested ammunition:
* .380 ACP 85 grain Winchester Silvertip JHP
* .380 ACP 88 grain CCI/Speer JHP
* .380 ACP 90 grain CCI/Speer Gold Dot JHP
* .380 ACP 90 grain Federal HydraShok JHP

Carbon_15
January 1, 2009, 12:28 AM
just to put this thing back on track. This gun will be 99.9% range toy. I have a J-frame with a crimson trace for pocket carry. If, and thats a big if, I can ever talk my wife into getting her permit she would carry it in her purse.

Dirty Bob
January 1, 2009, 01:29 AM
Can't argue against the SIG if price is not a problem. They seem to be among the best of the .380s.

I have to mention an alternative, though: the Makarov.

If you happen across a .380 Makarov, you might give it a serious look. You could also convert a 9x18mm Makarov to .380 with nothing but a barrel change. My Russian .380 is 100% reliable, very accurate, and feels good in the hand. It's all steel, and about 26oz., but that means mild recoil, and it carries well in a G-Code paddle holster with a good gunbelt. Double action trigger is not that great, but it's still a very shootable pistol. Mine is permanently part of my arsenal and was on my hip today, with a spare 8-round mag in a leather Schrade knife pouch on the opposite hip.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

rwschill
January 2, 2009, 09:53 PM
I owned a Sig 232 and found it was very accurate. However I did not like the bottom of grip mag release and the recoil was near 9MM pistols I have due to the blowback design of the Sig. It held 6 or 7 rounds. High quality pistol but I sold mine and got a Glock 26 9MM. Similar size, more power, 10 rounds, regular mag release and also accurate and reliaible. In 380 the pt380 Keltec or Ruger LCP are easier to pocket carry with similar firepower and lower priced but slightly higher recoil compared to Sig 232. Just my opinion after owning all of the above mentioned pistols.
Good luck!

Match10
January 2, 2009, 10:57 PM
I own and carry a Beretta 86, the tilt-barrel version of that gun. It is quality, and it is accurate. My wife likes it alot. I do not think you could go wrong with it. I'll also state my wife does NOT like my LCP. Even with powder-puff loads, it's too much for her to handle. (I like it, fine!) You are not really "undergunned" with the Golden Saber 102 grain round.

gitnsige
January 2, 2009, 11:22 PM
I have a sig p232 and I really like it. I have about 250 rds through it, never a problem. The trigger is nice, single action is excellent, it has a decocker which I prefer. It holds 7+1. The recoil is more than you'd expect, but I installed a houge grip which helps. I also like the Browning BDA and the Bersa 380 hi cap version since they have double stack mags. The glock 26 is nice for a step up in power.

usp9
January 2, 2009, 11:34 PM
just to put this thing back on track. This gun will be 99.9% range toy.

In that case, I'd definitely recommend the Beretta 84. The larger grip and larger mag capacity will be much more enjoyable as a range gun. I'd also recommend the excellent Pachmyer Signature rubber grip to go with the Beretta 84...makes for a tight, sure grip and eases the recoil a bit. The Beretta Mags are cheaper too, especially the 10 rounder, which can be had for around $10.

If you decide on the Sig, then I recommend the heavier all stainless model, which is nicer to shoot than the lightweight alloy models.

Either gun is a good choice...good luck, be safe.

Gordon
January 3, 2009, 12:32 AM
Although the old Remingtons were flatter and kick less as they have locked breeches, this is my favorite .380 by a longshot:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Browning_Model_1955.jpg

F1
January 3, 2009, 12:48 AM
Quote:
or teaching the shooter to not limpwrist.

Until you stated this, was much in agreement with your opinion...

______________________


I get angry whenever I hear "limp wrist" too. It's always an excuse used for automatics that jam, and I don't want to hear about it. What kind of grip do you think you'll have on your gun in an emergency situation, maybe a hand to hand struggle? It might not be a classic weaver stance.

Girodin
January 3, 2009, 02:45 AM
For a range gun I would look at the Bersa thunder. I still like the little colt for a range gun but the Bersa is much less money.

unisonic12
January 3, 2009, 05:46 PM
Avoid the Little Copy Pistol and you will save yourself time in trying to find one, P3ATs are easily available and cheaper.

+1 on the newer P3ATs. I just received a brand new 2nd generation P3AT this past November which replaced (for free!) my very old and unreliable 1st generation one (GREAT Kel-Tec customer sevirce). I did nothing to it other than clean and lube it out of the box and shot the CRAP out of it (300+ rounds of WWB, S&B and 2 brands of hollow points) over Christmas with ZERO malfunctions. I have another older 2nd generation P3AT that took some work (fluff and buffing) to get it to run reliably, but it's a great shooter now as well. Although I never carry it, I love my Walther PPK/s that I bought used in 1994. Have NO idea how old it is or how many rounds had been through it, but it's never ever given me the slightest bit of trouble.

P3AT with Walther PPK/s.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/AlbertD/DSC01692.jpg

That said, these pocket carry guns have been replaced by my WONDERFUL Kahr PM9 loaded with full house +p 9mm hollow points. :cool:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/AlbertD/DSC01804.jpg

As you can see, the PM9 is considerably smaller (and lighter) than the Walther.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/AlbertD/DSC01930.jpg

MP3Mogul
January 3, 2009, 07:14 PM
CZ83 has a hit and miss record?

Where did you get that information from? Every and I mean "EVERY" single review I can find says it functioned 101%, and was also the most accurate .380 pistol tested... 2 inches at 25 yards from a .380... I don't call that along with no failures a hit and miss record.

Sorry, didn't mean to take it personal... but that above comment was not truthful in any shape or form.

golden
January 3, 2009, 07:32 PM
The SIG 232 is smaller and lighter (if you go for the aluminum framed model) and a hammer dropping safety (a big plus if you do not like lowering the hammer on a live round).
In his books on the SIG pistols, Massad AYOUB ranked the SIG 230 and 232 as the least reliable SIG pistols. Better than a WALTHER, but not as good as a SIG 226.
It is also slower to reload, cannot be carried with the hammer COCKED & LOCKED (may or may not be important to you) and a much smaller magazine capacity.

The BERETTA 84 has a larger magazine capacity, it at least as reliable as the SIG, if not more reliable. Has larger, handfilling grips, faster reload due to the push button magazine release and a frame mounted safety which is easier to opperate and does not drop the hammer.
The negative for the BERETTA is the size limits concealment. It is as bulky as a GLOCK 19 which is a full power 9m.m., not a .380ACP. It is heavier and you can plane rule out pocket or ankle carry.

I own both and usually carry something bigger, but my wife loves the BERETTA 84 for its mild recoil and easy controls.

Hope this helps.

Jim

PX15
January 3, 2009, 08:30 PM
JMOfartO:

I'm old, retired, and live in SE Ga.. The wardrobe required during the summer months as regards the extremely high heat and humidity make concealing a large firearm almost impossible.

I've found, for my purposes, that the Seecamp LWS380 does the job for me..

I can put it in a rear pocket (in a wallet style holster) and take it along with me almost anyplace, anytime.

Having a RELIABLE gun WITH you is the name of the game for cc, and I've yet to find a pistol that can conceal easier or any better than my diminutive little Seecamp.

Just personal choice, no argument with those of differing opinions..

Best Wishes,

Jesse

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_0148.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_0115.jpg

PX15
January 3, 2009, 08:33 PM
Dupe post :barf: ~ Sorry....:)


Jesse

IMTHDUKE
January 3, 2009, 09:05 PM
You're wife will think of this as jewelry.....with a bang.
http://photos.gafana.com/photos/1666252900996559941371.share.jpg

texnutah
January 4, 2009, 04:28 AM
I'm waiting for my Bersa .380 Duo Tone to arrive. This is worse than waiting for Christmas!

Randy

40jjb
January 4, 2009, 04:45 AM
For those bringing up 9mm, the ballistics on Sub com. 9mm like the R9, Kpm9 and others a like are betwin 980 FPS and 1100 FPS, in a 380 pocket pistol the ballistics are the same as follow Power ball from cor bon 1100 FPS, Speer Gold Dot 958 FPS, Cor bon JHP the box 1050 FPS, so on and so on, Witch means in close quaters with a pocket pistol like kel tec or Ruger LCP is iqual to the 9mm, why carry a bigger packeg for the same results, smaller will always be there with you!, if you choose the sig, all I can say is great choise any gun is good just practice , practice and practice, shot placement and close quater shooting for self defence CCW I personaly have a pf9 just to have is put away I dont even look at it, then I have 3 P3AT and 1 Ruger LCP these I carry all the time with Cor bon Power ball.

40jjb
January 4, 2009, 05:13 AM
Witch ever you choose they are all good my advice practice a lot

huntsman
January 4, 2009, 12:52 PM
and many US LEO's use .380's as their BUGs.

And I'll bet the majority are the SIGs.

PX15
January 4, 2009, 01:08 PM
huntsman:

Respectfully I don't think Sig even makes a 380 cal pistol that is small and concealable enough to be a b/u for anyone. Perhaps I misread your comments?

I could be wrong.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

unisonic12
January 4, 2009, 01:15 PM
For those bringing up 9mm, the ballistics on Sub com. 9mm like the R9, Kpm9 and others a like are betwin 980 FPS and 1100 FPS, in a 380 pocket pistol the ballistics are the same

Not true. You are forgetting to mention the bullet weight. A 135 or 147 grain 9mm bullet is going to penetrate deeper and give a hollow point more chance to expand.

Koos Custodiet
January 4, 2009, 01:27 PM
Heh. You guys know the Colt Pony is just a rebadged Star, right? (Hey, I'm a beeg Spanish peestol fan).

CZ83 - nothing wrong with it, unless you're only allowed a reduced capacity magazine -- it's bulky, because of the double stack, but it shoots for a long time on one reload.

And yea, I quite enjoyed that "I won't allow anything smaller than a 9mm in the house" -- .380 ACP is 9mmK which *is* 9mm... just not 9mmP. Same diameter bullet, either lighter or slower by a bit. No shame in that. Well, unless you're a .45 fan (me? .357, thankyouverymuch).

PPKs and the clones, all good guns, generally, and yea, you can get a lemon, just like with anything else. Remember that in the second hand trade, you're more likely to get the lemon, because people are going to keep the good ones, no?

I'd go for an Astra Constable, but that's my love for Spanish showing through.

unisonic12
January 4, 2009, 01:37 PM
I love my "second hand" Interarms made Walther PPK/s I bought used in 1994. I have no idea how old it is or how many rounds it had through it, but it's never given me one bit of trouble. I don't even have the "slide bite" problem that a lot of people do when shooting PPKs and such. I just don't carry it anymore because the little Kel-Tec pictured below with a +1 magazine extension gets me the same firepower and capacity as the MUCH larger and heavier PPK/s.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/AlbertD/DSC01692.jpg

JR47
January 4, 2009, 02:58 PM
My wife uses a Colt Government Model .380 as her CCW. It fires from a locked breech, and is much milder in recoil impulse than a 9mm in a similar size package. My wife has RA, so that is important to her.

We also have a Kel-Tec P32 that I use in the summers, as heat and humidity put me in jeans and a tee-shirt. Also a locked breech gun, as is the P3AT version.

The Beretta Models 84, 85, and 86 were all a good bit larger than the Colt or the Kel-Tec. The CZ 83 is in the same boat, as is the Taurus PT58. They aren't any sort of pocket guns.

Quality-wise, the Sig, the Walther, and the Beretta are world-class. The CZ83, or the Taurus are also excellent guns, but not as well distributed. :)

unisonic12
January 4, 2009, 03:16 PM
Don't forget the Bersa .380s. I've never owned one, but pretty much everything I've seen points to them being good guns for not a lot of money.

Doppelganger
January 5, 2009, 08:05 PM
I vote for the Beretta 84 simply because I have one that I know I can depend on.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee256/Threel_photo/Model84_1.jpg

EAJ
January 6, 2009, 02:40 AM
I have a Bersa Thunder 380 CC and CZ 83. The Bersa is easier to conceal, but in my experience Iíve found the CZ 83 is more reliable and the additional magazine capacity is reassuring.

http://www.fishkind.com/collection/images/bersa_01.jpg


http://www.fishkind.com/collection/images/cz83_01.jpg

CDH
January 6, 2009, 07:09 AM
I love my "second hand" Interarms made Walther PPK/s I bought used in 1994. I have no idea how old it is or how many rounds it had through it, but it's never given me one bit of trouble. I don't even have the "slide bite" problem that a lot of people do when shooting PPKs and such. I just don't carry it anymore because the little Kel-Tec pictured below with a +1 magazine extension gets me the same firepower and capacity as the MUCH larger and heavier PPK/s.

I'm pretty much with you on that.
I bought my Walther PPK brand new in 1984 being one of those still made in Germany but with the "Imported by Interarms" stamp on it.
It's been a totally reliable pistol all these years, and I also have no problem at all with the "bite" that others seem to suffer.

But 25 years later, things have changed, and I've replaced my beloved 'ol PPK with a Rohrbaugh R9s which is half the size, half the weight, and shoots 9mm.
Still, I also bought an LCP which is the same size as the R9s but lighter still due to it's extensive use of plastic (Rohrbaugh is all metal). For the price, the LCP is a bargain, but then, so is the R9s because of it's incredible build quality ($1150.00).

So the PPK is now a safe queen, but I still like to shoot it sometimes just for old time's sake. :o

HexHead
January 6, 2009, 07:10 PM
Get the Beretta. Or even better, if you can find one, it's cousin the Browning BDA-380. I had a BDA for about 14 years until I got my carry permit. It wasn't a good carry pistol due to the size and weight that made it such a joy to shoot at the range. I ended up trading it towards a HiPower.

I shot a friend's SIG 232 and as much as I enjoyed shooting my Browning, I HATED his SIG. The stock grips on it really felt like they were beating my hand up compared to the really comfortable wood grips on the Browning.

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