AK variants?


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ds92
December 27, 2008, 09:37 PM
Hello All,
I have little experience with AK's. I wish to own one sometime soon, but there seem to be about 100 variants of them. I frankly can't see the difference, other than obvious things like furniture and caliber. Can anybody clear this up for me? Thanks, much appreciated.

Edit: price range, hmmm, lets say, up to $900. Accuracy? the more the better. History of the weapon is no big deal to me, i'm looking for practical use, it might get a little beat up and i wouldnt want to do that to a piece of history :)

DS

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atlanticfire
December 27, 2008, 09:41 PM
What price range are you shopping in?

Marcus5aurelius
December 27, 2008, 09:46 PM
Not only what price range but also what are you looking for in an AK? Best accuracy in that class of weapons, most history behind it, best reliability, etc. Those are generally what defines the variants besides the furniture and caliber. So you really just have to ask what you hope to gain from it.

nalioth
December 27, 2008, 09:59 PM
1) AKs were not designed to be as accurate as an M16. They are 'combat accurate", which means you can get 100% hits on a milk jug at 200m all day long, and COM hits further out if you work at it.

2) All AKs built in a state factory are produced for less than $100 USD. This includes the bayonet, 4 magazines, cleaning kit, mag pouch, oiler, and sling. The marketing departments of the Bulgarians here in the US have done a very very good job of covering this up (otherwise, why would folks spend $1300 on a >$100 rifle?).

The meanest AK is gonna run just as reliably as the most marketed.

atlanticfire
December 27, 2008, 10:02 PM
2) All AKs built in a state factory are produced for less than $100 USD.
ummm, what are your sources on this? Lets just say that I'm close to the manufacturing process, and Im intrested to know the details on this:scrutiny:

possum
December 27, 2008, 11:50 PM
$900 good lord that is alot for an ak. you should look into Rifle Dynamics and get Mr. Jim Fuller to build you one.

nalioth
December 28, 2008, 12:06 AM
2) All AKs built in a state factory are produced for less than $100 USD.
ummm, what are your sources on this? Lets just say that I'm close to the manufacturing process, and Im intrested to know the details on thisIt's simple economics.

1) The Kalashnikov factories and all their machinery are bought and paid for.

2) Labor is dirt cheap.

3) They have economy of scale.

You may be close to US "manufacturing processes", but not Soviet, Bulgarian or other former commie satellite's processes.

Sorry, I can't find the direct link, but it has been discussed here before.

MD_Willington
December 28, 2008, 01:41 AM
All I can say is, people in Africa laugh at all of us that pay more than $100US for any AK...

You want a link, I have better, go to Ethiopia and ask around.. I work with people from several African countries...

2RCO
December 28, 2008, 01:46 AM
Genuine Russiam AK47 or AKM =$50 to $75 in subsaharan Africa and that is if you can't bargain.

High Planes Drifter
December 28, 2008, 01:59 AM
Genuine Russiam AK47 or AKM =$50 to $75 in subsaharan Africa and that is if you can't bargain.


You forgot to add air travel fees, passport & customs costs, along with a slew of other fees - not to mention the inherant danger of doing business with an African arms dealer


I'll pay the extra couple hundred bucks and buy from the local gun shop. The owner wont kidnap me and hold me for ransom.

Thin Black Line
December 28, 2008, 09:52 AM
Nalioth, you've heard of things called "official exchange rate" and "state
subsidized industry", right?

I heard the antis use to quote "an AK costs the price of a chicken in
Africa/Asia/Central Whatever". I've never actually seen one bought like
that anywhere, but I would imagine it could have happened in a place
where there was next to no food and some extra AKs on the market.

What kind of market mechanism do you think is at work in a situation like
that? Could it be that everyone is already well-armed, but there aren't
enough chickens to go around? If there were plenty of ARs/FALs/G3s/
other EBRs, do you think they would command a greater number of
chickens than the AK in such an environment?

Naolith, does an AK with a hammer-forged barrel require more expensive
machinery, personnel with different training, and more time to manufacture?

What about countries that had full domestic access to their arms resources
from mining of ore, complete manufacturing of the arms and final marketing?
Russia had better control to everything involved as opposed to the FRY
which could not chrome-line their own bores as a result (and therefore didn't).

Please address these things for us.

All I can say is, people in Africa laugh at all of us that pay more than $100US for any AK...

Sure, and I remember a Pakastani living in the US who LHAO a couple years
ago when he heard G3 copies in the US fetched anywhere between $800-
$3000 depending on make.

As far as outrageous prices in the US for an AK right now, try to buy a can
of beans in Zimbabwe for less than 1gigazillion ZD --or $13USD right now at
their official exchange rate.

ultradoc
December 28, 2008, 10:03 AM
ds92, check out Rapid Fire in Troy,Ohio. They build several differant versions.

nalioth
December 28, 2008, 12:05 PM
Thin Black Line, I believe you are confusing what I said with what follow-up posters have said.

JWarren
December 28, 2008, 12:14 PM
I'll pay the extra couple hundred bucks and buy from the local gun shop. The owner wont kidnap me and hold me for ransom.


HPD,


You haven't been in some of the gunstores that I've been in. Some, I'm not so sure.... :uhoh:


-- John

zoom6zoom
December 28, 2008, 01:06 PM
Here's a page with lots of pictures of different variants. You'll see that they sure don't all "look alike". One of the great things about collecting them!
AK variants not 56K friendly (http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=373)

cuervo
December 28, 2008, 01:19 PM
You won't really be doing anything to a piece of history since none of the AKs coming in are real AKs anyway. At best, they are foreign parts kits on a US receiver or foreign receivers with US parts added to make them legal.

Even though it is not really an AK, you might want to look at a VZ58. It looks a little like an AK, but is striker fired and is built like a tank.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/02/04/vz-58-tactical-sporter-and-military-sporter/

Thin Black Line
December 28, 2008, 04:35 PM
Thin Black Line, I believe you are confusing what I said with what follow-up posters have said.

Really?

2) All AKs built in a state factory are produced for less than $100 USD. This includes the bayonet, 4 magazines, cleaning kit, mag pouch, oiler, and sling. The marketing departments of the Bulgarians here in the US have done a very very good job of covering this up (otherwise, why would folks spend $1300 on a >$100 rifle?).

and

It's simple economics.
1,2,3...

No, it doesn't seem that I have. The first two-thirds of my last post still
apply to you. So, again, please enlighten us on how these economic factors
affect the prices of various AK variants from around the world.

nalioth
December 28, 2008, 05:24 PM
Thin Black Line, my apologies. As I said before, I don't bookmark every interesting web page I come across.

The page I read had a rather more detailed explanation of what I said above.

Kymasabe
December 28, 2008, 08:19 PM
To try to answer your question: As someone had mentioned earlier, you need to ask yourself what function this AK needs to fill. If you're just looking for an average plinker, truck gun, SHTF gun, nothing fancy, just 100% reliable, than a Romanian WASR may be the gun for you. Pre-election they were $300-$350 locally but are now in the $500 to $550 range if you can find one. Some people have reported getting some good deals at gun shows or lightly used ones at pawn shops.
There aren'y a whole lot of differences between AK variants. When you take them apart, they all pretty much look and work the same. Different countries of origin named them differently. Hungary has the AMD63, has some different hand guards. There are Egyptian Maadi's, though I haven't seen one in a long time, Chinese Mac-90's...nice guns, some AK's that had slightly different receivers and very specific furniture.

pgeleven
December 29, 2008, 04:20 AM
2) All AKs built in a state factory are produced for less than $100 USD. This includes the bayonet, 4 magazines, cleaning kit, mag pouch, oiler, and sling. The marketing departments of the Bulgarians here in the US have done a very very good job of covering this up (otherwise, why would folks spend $1300 on a >$100 rifle?).

4 mags? i got 2 with mine and one of them was total bunk. plus a bayonet that wont even attach to the damn weapon.

if you have $900, get a WASR, clean the crap out of it, slap on a few plastic and metal parts here and there with a mid-priced red dot and you will most likely never look back. plus you shoud have some change left over for ammo. i have handled a fair share of AKs and to me its like comparing apples and oranges. you wont be plucking out somebodys right eye at 500 yards, or shooting the tits off of a deer tick at 30 paces, but you will have a fun, RELIABLE, economical EBR that can go through hell and back. go WASR if you can find one, take off the rudimentary, splintery furniture its supplied with, and slap on a few aftermarket US parts on it and you will want another.

max popenker
December 29, 2008, 08:36 AM
It's simple economics.
JFYI, Chavez bought brand new AK101s from IzhMash in 100,000 quantity at roughly $370 per kit (gun, mags, bayonet, cleaning kit)

H2O MAN
December 29, 2008, 08:45 AM
AK variants?

I prefer the Chinese (Poly Tech & Norinco) AKMs and MAK90s.

expvideo
December 29, 2008, 08:47 AM
I would recommend a converted Saiga .223. The caliber is very easy to find and accurate. The rifle is a Kalashnikov, built on an actual russian receiver. And since they are built on a Saiga, they are cheaper than a Bulgarian. You should be able to find a converted Saiga for under $900 easily.

ifit
December 29, 2008, 05:26 PM
i have to agree with h20 man, as i have purchased my first ak variant which is a mak90 norinco in .223, sumthin about them chinese ak variants especially when it shoots the .223 sweeeeet:)

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