AK 47 versus MINI 14


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gunmaker2872
December 27, 2008, 10:45 PM
which one is better?

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atlanticfire
December 27, 2008, 10:46 PM
I'll keep my AK, thank you very much. That is if you get the right AK;)

bensdad
December 27, 2008, 10:57 PM
This contest is so unfair. My kid's football team (he's 6) doesn't have to play against the Chargers. The Mini 14 should not have to be compared to the AK.

One is a battle-tested rifle with hundreds of millions in cirulation... all of which still function. It is a rifle that has been adopted by God knows how many armies. It works in any environment, regardless of condition (old, filthy, parts broken, etc.), no matter what. It shoots MOBG all day every day from now until forever Amen. It is the most widely recognized platform on this earth. It is the one firearm that JMB wishes he had thought of first.

The other is the bastard love-child of army wanna-be and gopher poison. It's only true role in this world is to give people who have too many guns something to complain about.

Sam1911
December 27, 2008, 11:13 PM
Now where is that "Which repeat, hashed-out, tired, beat-to-death, exhausted, AND REDUNDANT old post makes you groan when you see it AGAIN, AGAIN" thread when I need it? :p

Seriously.

Both classic guns. Both well deserving of a place in the great guns hall of fame. One has a track record pretty much unmatched in the history of arms and the other is a neat little plinker.

Better for what? For an average shooter doing average things with average, every day sorts of needs, the Mini-14 might have a slight ergonomic edge over the somewhat clunkier AK. If your needs are different, the answer is different. What's the question, specifically?

-Sam

P.S. - You know, I think the M1895 Nagant is much better than the 1915 CSRG Chauchat, too.

gunmaker2872
December 27, 2008, 11:26 PM
I guess my question is what rifle holds a better resale value, a stainless 2004 mini 14 or a romanian ak,, that and i just wanted to here some pro's and con's of both rifles.

notorious
December 27, 2008, 11:30 PM
Depends on where you are, the AK has ZERO resale value because you can't transfer it without neutering it in accordance with the Kommiefornia Politburo's rulings on private comrade ownership of firearms.

The Mini is a good handy ranch rifle, which is why they call it that. The AK you have is a semi-auto copy of a world famous assault rifle. What do you want it to do?

I prefer my AR to my Mini-30 but only because of superior ergonomics but the AK was not known as the best utilitarian tool either.

Lone_Gunman
December 27, 2008, 11:32 PM
AK's are great if you want an ugly rifle that will shoot 12" groups. They never jam though, and they make a nice loud bang. Lots of folks don't really care if they hit what they are shooting at. You will need to scare the enemy to death with the evil appearance of your rifle and the loud bang though, because you probably wont hit him past 100 yds.

Mini 14's are about the same.

I would probably pick a Mini over a random AK, because you just don't know what you are always getting with an AK. Contrary to what is said on the internet, AKs are not always 100 percent reliable.

flyboy1788
December 27, 2008, 11:32 PM
regardless of condition (old, filthy, parts broken, etc.),

even if the bolt is broke?? even if the fire control group breaks??? wow, i gotta get me one of these:p I knew AKs were rugged and reliable, but I didnt know they were never affected by parts breakage:D sorry, I had to do this, it was too much to resist:evil:

benEzra
December 27, 2008, 11:55 PM
AK's are great if you want an ugly rifle that will shoot 12" groups....You will need to scare the enemy to death with the evil appearance of your rifle and the loud bang though, because you probably wont hit him past 100 yds.
Ummm...no.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=414619&page=3

Some photos from that thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=89895&stc=1&d=1230390295

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l308/MTMilitiaman/Guns/Randomstuff014.jpg

All 100-yard groups from prone or rests.

The AK is not a 1-MOA rifle, but it's not a 12-MOA rifle either. Most will do 4 MOA or better if you shoot it like you actually expect it to shoot well.

AK 47 versus MINI 14
which one is better?
For several years, I owned a Romanian AK (SAR-1) and a 188-series Mini-14 Ranch Rifle. I eventually sold the mini and kept the AK.

Lone_Gunman
December 27, 2008, 11:59 PM
Ummm...no.

I have no doubt that some AK's can do considerably better than 12 inch groups. But I have no faith that the average WASR can. I have a VEPR-K that can probably do 4-6 inch groups at 100 yds with standard iron sights. Showing me small groups shot by modified rifles with optical scopes doesn't really count for much, since most AKs are not shot that way.

benEzra
December 28, 2008, 12:16 AM
I have no doubt that some AK's can do considerably better than 12 inch groups. But I have no faith that the average WASR can. I have a VEPR-K that can probably do 4-6 inch groups at 100 yds with standard iron sights. Showing me small groups shot by modified rifles with optical scopes doesn't really count for much, since most AKs are not shot that way.
My own AK is a Romanian (SAR-1, predecessor of the WASR) with a 1x collimator sight (Kobra). It will do around 4" at 100 yards, which is better than my mini-14 would do. And putting an AK optic on the built-in optics siderail does not constitute a modified rifle, IMO; it just makes it easier to see where you're aiming.

The AK is not a 12-MOA rifle, by any means, although it will shoot 12 MOA if you shoot it like that's all it will do.

possum
December 28, 2008, 12:32 AM
which one is better?
that couldn't be a more open ended question? better at what?

i will take the ak, why? the ability to shoot steel cased ammo, can you do it in a mini? sure but american guns run best with brass cased ammo generally. also the price of mags, and thier avaliability with the ak is much better than the mini. plus the ak is cheaper.

BornAgainBullseye
December 28, 2008, 12:46 AM
modified rifle...... That is about as funny as a 3 band Enfield with a red dot and a flash hider. Kobra's and PSO's are far from "MODIFIED" I hit standard pop ups at 300 with my AK's no problem here

gunmaker2872
December 28, 2008, 12:51 AM
Let me rephrase, Would you trade your stainless mini for an ak 47?

sturmgewehr667
December 28, 2008, 01:00 AM
ak's get the bad accuracy reputation because this represents 80 percent of the people who shoot them today (not including americans)...
http://wallout.com/files/images/dual_wielding_ak47.jpg

in reality, they have all the accuracy they need to do the job they were meant to do

Golden Hound
December 28, 2008, 01:06 AM
That guy's fly is unzipped.

sturmgewehr667
December 28, 2008, 01:15 AM
That guy's fly is unzipped.


he probably has a mag loader in there

probably a tapco too

Rubber_Duck
December 28, 2008, 01:21 AM
^^^^
ROFLMFAO!




In response to the OPs question:

I'll take the AK. It's just a better rifle. As stated, it has proven itself the world over. Bettle tested, and very good at what it does.

The Mini-14 is more akin to a farmers truck gun.

2RCO
December 28, 2008, 01:23 AM
Let me rephrase, Would you trade your stainless mini for an ak 47?

UH no, $%^$ no! God no!

mgregg85
December 28, 2008, 01:24 AM
My mini-14 has always been reliable for me, in the snow and dirt. I've even had the bolt stick on it and I had to do the traditional AK fix of bashing open with my boot, but it still fired immediately after that. Its a reliable weapon for me, not very accurate but dependable.

Travis Bickle
December 28, 2008, 02:49 AM
I'd rather have the Mini, as it's produced by a reputable American company that is well known for excellent customer service and stands behind its products (although you'll probably never even need Ruger to stand behind any of its products, since Rugers are typically built tough as tanks.)

Just about the only advantage I see in going with the AK is that it has the AK cachet going for it and will probably scare and/or impress certain people more. OTOH, I suppose you can probably pimp your Mini with a pistol grip stock and other aftermarket stuff and make it almost as menacing-looking as the AK.

I'd say that ruggedness and reliability are a tie. The AK and Mini are both renowned for being very rugged and reliable.

Accuracy is also a tie. As another poster noted, they're both accurate enough for what they were designed for, which is gut-shooting people and varmints at 100 yards or less.

Travis Bickle
December 28, 2008, 03:00 AM
[The AK] is a battle-tested rifle with hundreds of millions in cirulation

And the Garand isn't? A Mini-14 is basically just a Garand chambered for .223, you know.

Ignition Override
December 28, 2008, 03:24 AM
How about self-defense in a (un)civilian setting, in contrast to offensive?
Not in Monrovia, Liberia, the Afghan hills, but a US city or suburb/'ruburb'.

Other than on farm land, do self-defense scenarios happen at much further than 20-40 yards?
Never having been in a riot or natural disaster aftermath, using 'self-defense' and '50' or '100 yards' in the same sentence (other than in a combat zone) sometimes baffles me.
I'm probably mistaken, but my impressions are that bad guys try to get close to victims before they reveal a weapon, take a shot etc.

HeavenlySword
December 28, 2008, 03:31 AM
Remember, when the S really HTF, then there WILL be cases of large groups of baddies pouring fire through your home at 300 or so M.

Even 1000 M, with baddies with .50s

rhinoh
December 28, 2008, 03:36 AM
"Let me rephrase, Would you trade your stainless mini for an ak 47?"

Uh no..but then when I bought my first stainless mini it costs TWICE what an AK did...

BTW I have an AK, an AR and both .223 and 7.62 Minis...each is optimal for different things...although I'm having a little trouble figuring out what the minis are best at:neener:

If I could only have ONE? Hmmm...that would be a tough decision:cool: probably would have to go with the AR

WardenWolf
December 28, 2008, 03:42 AM
A Mini-14 is effectively an AK that has its gas piston on the bottom, and an offset connector to allow it to clear the magazine and still charge the bolt. They are very similar in core function and performance, although the offset design of the Mini-14 does not lend it to very long-term reliability as the design induces additional stresses and friction. I would say an AK is a better gun for this reason. Less to go wrong.

notorious
December 28, 2008, 07:20 AM
Nothing wrong with an AK or Mini-14 but just don't expect it to drive tacks. As for those denigrating the AK's accuracy or effectiveness, just ask any Vietnam vet who has humped the bush and he'll tell you it's not a joke even in the hands of 3rd world villagers.

LIQUID SNAKE
December 28, 2008, 07:35 AM
AK-47

Lawnman380
December 28, 2008, 08:01 AM
My Saiga's 7.62 x 39 or 223 both shoot 3 inch groups, standing no rest, iron sights 25 yards. Prices are moving back down, paid less than $400 for each a few years ago. Reliability %100...never had a Mini

notorious
December 28, 2008, 08:04 AM
Saiga goes for $600 and up here in Kalifornistan.

SHvar
December 28, 2008, 01:09 PM
I have the mini-14, and have shot AKs.
The mini-14 is certainly worth 4 times the AKs value in cash, the AK has the reputation of being almost Glock reliable, and is also produced as cheap as tin cans. Both are a bit different in design and function.
Years ago LEO and special military units had mini-14s in their inventories, and made use of them (there were select fire mini-14s made for them).
Keep in mind that the mini-14 is not as accurate as an AR-15, but its not that bad either, equivalent to or better than any AK.
It depends what you want, and which you prefer. Ive always preferred the mini-14 over an AK. Firing both makes you appreciate the mini-14 much more.
The mini-14 is a small version of the garand/M1A system, it works, what else can you say about it. The mini-14 will shoot and shoot, and never stop, its reliable, simple.
The AK is a simple cheap battle rifle made to function and fit the purpose for mindless, uneducated, 3rd world hopped up on whatever drug is most commonly available rebels. Keep in mind that its made to fit the purpose because most have no clue that a firearm should be cleaned or cared for.

notorious
December 28, 2008, 02:47 PM
We have the Mini-14 and have had them for years. Ours is the LEO type with stainless 16" barrels, composite stock, flash hider, and ching sling. It works for what we need it for, hopefully nothing.

Shooter88
December 28, 2008, 03:05 PM
The mini-14 will shoot and shoot, and never stop,

The armorers at Gunsite I've spoken with, who have never seen a Mini-14 make it through one of their carbine classes without choking, would disagree with you there. Having a gas piston and looking like a Garand does not a reliable rifle make.

trekgod3
December 28, 2008, 04:01 PM
Shouldn't you be comparing the AK to the mini-30?

benEzra
December 28, 2008, 04:08 PM
The mini-14 is certainly worth 4 times the AKs value in cash
Not anymore, alas...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=118523231

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116884542

That's a WASR for $565 and a mini-14 for $630. I don't think new ones sell for much more than that (Ruger's MSRP is much higher than your typical dealer price).

The AK is a simple cheap battle rifle made to function and fit the purpose for mindless, uneducated, 3rd world hopped up on whatever drug is most commonly available rebels.
No, it was made for the professional Soviet Army. Its reliability and ease of use later led to it being issued to Third World proxies, but that's not who what was made for.

Keep in mind that the mini-14 is not as accurate as an AR-15, but its not that bad either, equivalent to or better than any AK.
Not all of them. My mini-14 (188-series stainless Ranch Rifle) shot worse than my Romanian AK, which was the primary reason I sold the mini and kept the AK.

New-production mini's (580-series and up) are reported to be considerably more accurate than the older ones, and are comparable to the best AK's accuracy-wise. If I were in the market for a mini, I would definitely look to get one of the new ones, rather than rolling the dice on an old one and not knowing if it will shoot 2" groups or 6" groups at 100 yards.

The mini-14 will shoot and shoot, and never stop
Only if you use grease, like you would with a Garand, rather than oil like Ruger recommends. Oil is fine until the rifle gets really hot, then the oil evaporates and the rifle seizes up.

I used Rem Oil for years on my mini until I noticed galling on several contact surfaces (with no failures, but I never got mine really hot), then switched to grease and had no issues after that. But the design is not very forgiving of lack of lubrication, though it may be somewhat better than an AR in that regard due to the high-energy gas system.

John Farnam reports mixed results with mini's in his classes, probably due to differences in how people lubricate them. If you get one, I'd highly recommend grease on the bolt contact surfaces and the trackway on the right side of the receiver that the bolt carrier handle runs in, and a non-volatile oil on the recoil spring (Militec or Mobil-1 or somesuch).

theotherwaldo
December 28, 2008, 04:22 PM
If I were someone who sold guns then I would probably sell my mini-14 before I would get rid of my WASR-10.

There's not that much difference in their operability or accuracy. The AK clone comes to shoulder better than the mini originally did, though I bought a cheap stock extension and sanded most of the curve out. Not much difference now.

No the big problem is the magazines. I'm tired of messing with Mini-14 mags that don't work.

notorious
December 28, 2008, 06:07 PM
For people to compare an AK to a Mini-30, first you have to find people who bought a Mini-30. From what I see, there's not many of them out there.

I have a Mini-30 because I wanted a bigger cartridge than the AR and I have 2 mags that work and 1 that doesn't. I don't even know what happened to my original factory 5 rounder.

atlanticfire
December 28, 2008, 06:09 PM
A Mini-14 is basically just a Garand chambered for .223, you know.I love my Garand and consider this blasphemy!

woodfiend
December 28, 2008, 06:22 PM
A Mini-14 is basically just a Garand chambered for .223, you know.

The only "forces" that have ever adopted the Mini 14 are some police units and the world renowned "Bermuda Regiment". No effective fighting organization would dare to draw Mini 14s in full-on combat. The Mini 14 is NOT a combat rifle. It wasn't designed to be a combat rifle. Why do you think that Ruger calls it the Ranch Rifle? Sure, it looks like a tiny M14, but that doesn't mean it is one.

black_powder_Rob
December 28, 2008, 06:23 PM
"No, it was made for the professional Soviet Army. Its reliability and ease of use later led to it being issued to Third World proxies, but that's not who what was made for."

Which at the time was made up of poor ignorant farmers. Watch any special with M. Kalashnikov in it, he himself said he the army wanted something simple in design that even a idiot couldn't break.

as for which the ak or mini, they both are close to the same page on reliability and accuracy. BUY American.:D

woodfiend
December 28, 2008, 06:24 PM
I love my Garand and consider this blasphemy!

I completely agree.

notorious
December 28, 2008, 06:31 PM
The only "forces" that have ever adopted the Mini 14 are some police units and the world renowned "Bermuda Regiment". No effective fighting organization would dare to draw Mini 14s in full-on combat. The Mini 14 is NOT a combat rifle. It wasn't designed to be a combat rifle. Why do you think that Ruger calls it the Ranch Rifle? Sure, it looks like a tiny M14, but that doesn't mean it is one.


Agreed that no military force would take the Mini but why would they when they are not restrained and can have battle rifles or carbines developed for their purposes?

However, we field Mini-14s and none of us feel undergunned if we needed it in an urban situation... which is not full out war, except on certain weekends and nights of the year, in da hood up ta no good, yay yayeee!

woodfiend
December 28, 2008, 06:34 PM
However, we field Mini-14s and none of us feel undergunned if we needed it in an urban situation... which is not full out war, except on certain weekends and nights of the year, in da hood up ta no good, yay yayeee!


I can fully agree on that, I just can't stand it when people compare a firearm designed for civilian use and none else, to a military assault rifle that was designed to spread communism globally.

notorious
December 28, 2008, 06:41 PM
I can fully agree on that, I just can't stand it when people compare a firearm designed for civilian use and none else, to a military assault rifle that was designed to spread communism globally.

So... how do you feel about the Maxim machine gun (military) versus the Mini-14 (civilian)?

Seriously, the AK that people are talking about here is not, I repeat, NOT the military assault rifle!

Don't fall into the gun grabbers' rhetoric that the civilian AK is anything like the military AK. It is in appearance only and it functions like any other semi-auto weapon.

In that manner, all we are comparing here is the different functioning mechanisms of 1 semi-auto design versus another. That's it.

Imagine some uninformed people who read these versus threads and think that we really have military AK and AR rifles for sale to the public and then they go running in a panic to their politician and point to this as evidence that the evil guns are really out there and we, the owners, agree.

FlyinBryan
December 28, 2008, 06:42 PM
AK's are great if you want an ugly rifle that will shoot 12" groups. They never jam though, and they make a nice loud bang. Lots of folks don't really care if they hit what they are shooting at. You will need to scare the enemy to death with the evil appearance of your rifle and the loud bang though, because you probably wont hit him past 100 yds.



lol, its refreshing to see someone not tiptoe around the touchy subject of just how bad the ak's really are.

ive never personally seen one group well enough to even shoot on the hundred yard line, unless hitting the paper is good enough.

at 200 and up, forget about it.

i would pick the mini out of those two, but its no tack driver. it is a more accurate rifle than an ak though.

out of the hundred or so ak's ive been next to at the 100 yd line, ive never seen one group better than 12 inches.

maybe ive only seen "bad ones".

notorious
December 28, 2008, 06:46 PM
OTOH, the AK is fun on full-auto even if you just light up dust clouds all around the target at 100 yards and nothing else. It will give him a heart attack and maybe kill him from that, unless he is a zombie, in which case, he will continue to advance until you put 1 in the head.

lionking
December 28, 2008, 06:50 PM
My experience with AK style rifles is that ammo selection has a pretty huge difference in group sizes,with iron sights.Mini 14 performs decent with most ammo.Using stock iron sights on both as they were made the Mini 14 is more accurate overall.

I bought my Mini back in 1990 for $300 when at the time a AR was double in price,for those on a budget that wanted .223 semi auto fun and liked the egronomics of it the Mini was a viable option.

Don't know if Mini prices have been effected by the panic buy but before Obama a AR was a little more than a Mini price wise so a Mini became less appealing against a AR in more recent times.

AK and Mini are both fun and reliable in my experience blasting away with them,for a normal person that isn't going to go to war in Iraq,Afghanistan or somewhere a Mini probably will serve well as a range gun,defense gun,ranch gun,plinker.

notorious
December 28, 2008, 07:00 PM
My only gripe with the Mini family of weapons is the long exposed barrel. I have a nice big patch of skin which does not match the rest of my arm thanks to an accidental contact with a Mini-30 barrel after I let off 30 rounds on a hot summer day.

briansmithwins
December 28, 2008, 09:18 PM
Mine does a little better than 12MOA. Target was shot at 100 yards with iron sights. The grid is 1". The post-it was the aiming point but the rifle wasn't zeroed for the muzzle device that was on the rifle at the time, hence the change to POI. The rifle is an Arsenal SLR107FR.

As far as comparing the AK to the Mini-14 or Mini-30, answer these 2 questions:

1) How expensive are reliable standard capacity magazines?
2) How expensive are commonly broken spares, like extractors and firing pins?

BSW

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/briansmithwins/threadprotector.jpg

HOLY DIVER
December 28, 2008, 09:46 PM
thought ruger re-tooled all threre machines to improve there accuracy?my new mini's barrel looks allot different than my old mini

benEzra
December 28, 2008, 10:06 PM
Which at the time was made up of poor ignorant farmers. Watch any special with M. Kalashnikov in it, he himself said he the army wanted something simple in design that even a idiot couldn't break.
Might want to read up on your Russian World War II history a bit. The WWI Russian Army under the czar was indeed largely uneducated-peasant. The Soviet Army in 1947 or 1949 most assuredly was not.

FWIW, would you consider Vasily Zaytsev, Simo Häyhä, and Carlos Hathcock "peasants"? All three were from rural areas in their respective countries, but none of them were uneducated, and they all darn sure knew their way around a rifle.

I'm sure Mr. Kalashnikov did want the rifle to be idiot-proof. There was, and is, a percentage of idiots in the Russian military, just as there is in the U.S. military. But that doesn't mean idiots are anything but a small minority in either case.

lol, its refreshing to see someone not tiptoe around the touchy subject of just how bad the ak's really are.

ive never personally seen one group well enough to even shoot on the hundred yard line, unless hitting the paper is good enough.

at 200 and up, forget about it.
You've never shot one, I take it.

The AK is an easy rifle to shoot badly, partly because the can't-stay-on-paper-at-200 myth is self-fulfilling (if you don't shoot it like you expect to get 4 MOA out of it, then you most assuredly won't), and partly because the iron sights truly aren't as good as those on an AR or a Garand (although they are better than the factory sights on the pre-580 series Ranch Rifles, IMO).

But if you take a solid position (NOT resting on the magazine or the barrel), focus hard on the front sight like you're supposed to, take your time like you're supposed to, squeeze the trigger like you're supposed to, and follow through like you're supposed to, an AK will shoot like a Winchester M1894, which it ballistically resembles. And sticking an optic on the built-in optics siderail (that's what it's there for!) makes the issue sights a non-issue anyway; the irons are just BUIS on my carbine.

http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/forums/uploads/1168567538/gallery_260_23_6447.jpg

OTOH, the AK is fun on full-auto even if you just light up dust clouds all around the target at 100 yards and nothing else. It will give him a heart attack and maybe kill him from that, unless he is a zombie, in which case, he will continue to advance until you put 1 in the head.
Most of us won't be using full-auto, because most of us don't have $17,000+ to drop on a transferable pre-1986 NFA Title 2 restricted AK-47.

A civilian semiauto AK can make head shots on zombies at 100 yards, though...

Mine does a little better than 12MOA. Target was shot at 100 yards with iron sights. The grid is 1". The post-it was the aiming point but the rifle wasn't zeroed for the muzzle device that was on the rifle at the time, hence the change to POI. The rifle is an Arsenal SLR107FR. BSW
Briansmithwins, what ammo were you using, and what was the muzzle device?

Small Arms Review had an article on AK accuracy in the December 2008 issue, and they found the slant brake increased group size by 50% or so, IIRC.

thought ruger re-tooled all threre machines to improve there accuracy?my new mini's barrel looks allot different than my old mini.
They did. The new-manufacture 580-series mini-14's are reported to be considerably more accurate than the older models. (My 5.5-MOA Ranch Rifle was a 1989-ish 188-series.)

NC-Mike
December 28, 2008, 10:25 PM
I've owned both at one time. A WASR 10 and 183 series mini.

I sold the mini and now have 4 AKM type rifles. My Romak-1 will outshoot a mini all day and the barrel won't droop after I shoot 10 rounds. :D



Mini-owners, can you say Vertical Stringing?



I knew you could... :neener:

briansmithwins
December 28, 2008, 10:35 PM
Ammo was Yugo M67 ball and I had a thread protector on. I also tried the AK74 brake and flash hider (24mm threads). The brake was a little worse than the nut, while the flash hider was the worse.

Changing muzzle devices did cause a significant change to the POI. BSW

AK74 brake(bored out to ~10mm)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/briansmithwins/brake.jpg

Flash hider.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/briansmithwins/flashhider.jpg

FMJMIKE
December 28, 2008, 10:37 PM
The AK is a better battle rifle. The Mini-14 is a better hunting rifle. I own both!!!
:D

lionking
December 28, 2008, 10:47 PM
Did this at 100yds a couple years back before I started using SR1 targets.I guess each square on that Hoppes target is a inch?Is it as accurate as a AR? typically no although a couple weeks ago I had a bad day with a Colt H-Bar that didn't show better groups than this but it was a bad day because I have gotten much tighter groups with the AR-15 before although using the small peep is better.

AK?I did 5 shot groups that with more premium brand ammo produced 5 to 6 inch groups while bargain brand ammo was spread all over.I am planning on redoing a AK ammo test with 10 shot groups to come toa more definative conclusion.

Krokus posted his AR in 7.62x39mm which produced pretty tight group but not as a good as 5.56mm can do based on the one photo he submitted.As far as my target below showing the Mini 14 I am satisfied with that,If I can nail a empty propane tank at 100yds consistently with it that is all I can ask for.

AK or Mini 14,thry are both fun,and reliable.It is personal taste.If you are looking for a rifle that will withstand real extended mud,sleet,rain and snow conditions and fire 1000 rounds non stop in combat conditions maybe a AK is better suited but for typical needs I don't think a Mini 14 is that bad,except with USA brand magazines.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k246/musicnut_2006/milsurp%205/100_1168.jpg

benEzra
December 28, 2008, 11:46 PM
Ammo was Yugo M67 ball
briansmithwins, you might want to try a box of Wolf 154-grain softpoints, or even some Wolf 122gr JHP (black box) or Wolf Military Classic 122gr JHP (tan box, made in Serbia by Prvi Partizan AFAIK), just to see if your results are the same. That kind of dispersal looks like mine shooting 1980's/early 1990's Norinco.

A lot of people have reported that the Wolf 154's are the most accurate of commonly available ammunition, but I haven't had the opportunity to try any yet. But in my experience there is also a lot of variation in the 122/123 grain stuff. In that weight range, I've had good results with both Wolf and Barnaul.

briansmithwins
December 28, 2008, 11:50 PM
My best group with the Yugo M67 was 2MOA using my SKS. I have gotten better groups with the AK, I just don't have pictures of them.

BSW

notorious
December 29, 2008, 12:06 AM
Most of us won't be using full-auto, because most of us don't have $17,000+ to drop on a transferable pre-1986 NFA Title 2 restricted AK-47.

A civilian semiauto AK can make head shots on zombies at 100 yards, though...

I don't have $17,000 either but I did get to shoot a few mags off a confiscated full-auto AK which was in ATF custody. They had a nice inventory of confiscated weapons and we got to play with some. The full-auto Mac10 was fun too but that cyclic rate was way too high!

Ignition Override
December 29, 2008, 12:13 AM
Other than having large reliable mags, what does a Mini 14 need to become a combat rifle, using only iron sights?

notorious
December 29, 2008, 12:41 AM
Other than having large reliable mags, what does a Mini 14 need to become a combat rifle, using only iron sights?

Reliability comes to mind. Also, a handguard so the soldier doesn't burn his hand on that long exposed barrel like I did.

Ignition Override
December 29, 2008, 01:49 AM
Other than many aftermarket (or Ruger) magazines, what function(s) on the Mini 14 could make it reliable enough to work in combat, or could it have such potential?
I'm not young, but kind of new with guns. Those hot barrels can be viscious and was sorry to finally read about that encounter.

SHvar
December 29, 2008, 01:58 AM
Several special forces units in the US all had mini-14s in their armories, yes in select fire (stainless steel, wooden stock, folding stainless steel wire stock, flash hider, and bayonet lug). These units used them as an option, and relied upon them. Several police departments countrywide since the early 80s have had the mini-14 in use, and have never had a problem with them.
I have had a mini-14 for many years, it was suggested by a friend from my army days who has had 3 of them for many years beforehand, and several ARs.
I dont see how someone who has never owned a mini-14 and experienced its reliability firsthand could come up with any stories against them.
Yes, they are not super accurate on follow up shots at distance, but they will fire and not quit.
I would be skeptical of anyone saying that a mini-14 will not make it through a shooting course, sounds like a load of stinking crap. The only problem that Ive have ever seen first hand with any mini-14 is with the wooden stocks. Some of them had a problem with the trigger assembly coming loose because the stock was not cut or fitted properly, in which case you buy a cheap synthetic stock and the problem is solved.
I hope anyone who is reading this post for the information realizes that there are individuals who post insults and myths about certain firearms based in no factual evidence only because they dont like a certain firearm, no other reason.
I dont like AKs in particular, but I recognize that they are the most widespread automatic rifle the world over, and made to function through almost any torture you can put them through.
I certainly wouldnt make up stories about a firearm I dont particularly like being supposedly unreliable, that would be lies.
Simply put, unless you block the barrel on a mini-14 it will always function. If you oil a few moving parts on a mini-14 it will stay cool, and fire forever, Ive never seen a reason to use anything aside from a little oil, ever.

notorious
December 29, 2008, 03:24 AM
The select fire Mini-14 was made with the folding stock which was a pain to use and from what I recall, it never caught on too well.

It did look very neat though... I think it was called the Mini-14SP or some other acronym.

pgeleven
December 29, 2008, 05:43 AM
That guy's fly is unzipped

busted gazing!

the one thing i have noticed that both of those weapons have in common, is that they are only as reliable as the magazine. my good friend had a mini-14 that jammed almost every 4th round or so, until he bought Eagle mags, and has not had a jam since. when i bought my AK (WASR-10), i was having constant feeding problems, until i bought another mag, now i havent had a jam in at LEAST 600 rounds. they will both do you well, but if you want to go for accuracy, go for the Mini-14 IMHO

cane
December 29, 2008, 07:25 AM
The select fire Ruger Mini-14 was called the Ac-556, with the 13" barrel and the folding stock was the AC-556K.

NC-Mike
December 29, 2008, 08:27 AM
The select fire Ruger Mini-14 was called the Ac-556, with the 13" barrel and the folding stock was the AC-556K.

From what I've read, the reliability of that configuration was in question.

expvideo
December 29, 2008, 11:21 AM
It's only true role in this world is to give people who have too many guns something to complain about.
ROFL. That is one of the most quoteable lines I've seen in a while.

Anyway, I'd take the AK any day. The mini-14 is much prettier, but pretty doesn't make a battle rifle. It's only really around because it is the least "assault rifle" looking semi-auto on the market.

expvideo
December 29, 2008, 11:33 AM
I'd rather have the Mini, as it's produced by a reputable American company that is well known for excellent customer service and stands behind its products (although you'll probably never even need Ruger to stand behind any of its products, since Rugers are typically built tough as tanks.)

That's funny right there, I don't care who you are!

Kalashnikov rifles are argueably the second most reputable product in the world, second only to Pepsi.

H2O MAN
December 29, 2008, 11:33 AM
The Mini-14 is what it is, but given the choice I'll take the 7.62x39 AKM :evil:

ndh87
December 29, 2008, 11:42 AM
I traded my Mini 14 for an AK

Would do it again in a heart beat

briansmithwins
December 29, 2008, 11:46 AM
I'd rather have the Mini, as it's produced by a reputable American company

Is this Ruger we're talking about? The same Ruger that backed the AWB as long as his 'sporting' rifles weren't included? The same Ruger that has consistently refused to sell standard capacity mags for those same rifles to anyone that's not LEO?

I agree that Ruger has a reputation, just not that it's a real good one. Selling Mini-14 mags to us peasants now doesn't make up for their previous policies in my book.

BSW

Dr.Rob
December 29, 2008, 11:53 AM
Every mini I've fired is guilty of vertical stringing after a few shots. After 5 shots that barrel gets HOT.

Well any rifle gets hot if you're fast on the trigger, but the AK style rifles seem to deal with heat better.

Mini has a better safety and trigger. Good magazines are hard to find.

22lr
December 29, 2008, 11:56 AM
MINI-14. Im not a AK fan at all. They rank bottom in my list of want to have guns.

22lr
December 29, 2008, 11:58 AM
@brian

So um most AKs are made by a communist country that doesn't even allow guns. Fouled logic man. I love Ruger products and as long as they sell guns ill be buying them.

notorious
December 29, 2008, 12:02 PM
Yeah, Bill Ruger's politics aren't the best but I have bought quite a few of his guns lately. What can I say, sometimes you just gotta have that 10/22. I caved in after 20 years of shooting and got one.

benEzra
December 29, 2008, 12:09 PM
So um most AKs are made by a communist country that doesn't even allow guns. Fouled logic man. I love Ruger products and as long as they sell guns ill be buying them.
No current U.S.-imported AK's are manufactured in communist countries, and many of them are NATO members. UNLIKE most of the stuff people buy at Wal-Mart.

And unlike Ruger, the eastern European AK manufacturers are happy to make rifles with bayonet lugs, threaded muzzles, protruding handgrips, and 30-round magazines for the "little people," where we are still allowed to own them.

Ruger has been moving in the right direction on this (they now sell 20-rounders, for example), but they still have a way to go. And they still won't sell you a spare firing pin unless you game the system.

Travis Bickle
December 29, 2008, 05:35 PM
Sure, it looks like a tiny M14, but that doesn't mean it is one.

Well, it is one. Aside from the fact that it's smaller and chambered for .223, there is absolutely no difference that I am aware of, mechanically, between the Mini and M-14.

The only "forces" that have ever adopted the Mini 14 are some police units and the world renowned "Bermuda Regiment".

That's because the AK had already filled the Mini's niche and did it for a fraction of the price, not because the Mini is a poor combat weapon.

briansmithwins
December 29, 2008, 06:05 PM
Well, it is one. Aside from the fact that it's smaller and chambered for .223, there is absolutely no difference that I am aware of, mechanically, between the Mini and M-14.

Differences between the Mini-14 and the M14:

1) Self regulating gas piston on M14 vs Mini-14's fixed piston and moving cylinder.
2) Gas block attached with splines to barrel on M14 vs Mini-14's screws.
3) Gas cut off valve of M14 is missing from Mini-14.
4) USGI M14s have chromed bores. Not an option for Mini-14.
5) M14 has butt trap for cleaning kit. This is made of steel in case you need to break something with the rifle's buttstock. Mini-14 buttplate has no trap and is plastic.
6) Roller on the M14's bolt. Mini-14 is missing this feature.

There are some differences between the 2 rifles.

Travis Bickle
December 29, 2008, 07:12 PM
Differences between the Mini-14 and the M14:

1) Self regulating gas piston on M14 vs Mini-14's fixed piston and moving cylinder.
2) Gas block attached with splines to barrel on M14 vs Mini-14's screws.
3) Gas cut off valve of M14 is missing from Mini-14.
4) USGI M14s have chromed bores. Not an option for Mini-14.
5) M14 has butt trap for cleaning kit. This is made of steel in case you need to break something with the rifle's buttstock. Mini-14 buttplate has no trap and is plastic.
6) Roller on the M14's bolt. Mini-14 is missing this feature.

There are some differences between the 2 rifles.

This may be true, but it does not change the fact that the A-Team used Mini-14s, which means that anyone who does not like them is f***ing lame.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8355/0001ltr9.jpg

Game, set, match.

Pilot
December 29, 2008, 07:20 PM
This may be true, but it does not change the fact that the A-Team used Mini-14s, which means that anyone who does not like them is f***ing lame.



And true to form for a Mini-14, they couldn't hit anything with it either. Every one they ever came up against LIVED.

:D

woodfiend
December 29, 2008, 07:45 PM
I think people give Mikhail Kalashnikov way too much credit. He didn't purposely design the AK 47 to have loose clearances. It was supposed to be cheap! Massive amounts of withering fire, simplicity, and ease of manufacture were the main factors of development. Russian doctrine called for a weapon of that nature. Hence the old Russian proverb: "The best is the enemy of good enough."

The design worked and it worked well. But, when I hear that Mikhail Kalashnikov purposely designed the AK with loose clearances, then I have to say that is BS. The man is full of himself.

That said, it is a good weapon, IF you know how to use it. You must understand its limitations. The same goes for a Mini 14.

expvideo
December 29, 2008, 08:40 PM
The design worked and it worked well. But, when I hear that Mikhail Kalashnikov purposely designed the AK with loose clearances, then I have to say that is BS. The man is full of himself.
He is, but I would say that he's justified in being that way. What have you accomplished that could even hold a candle to creating the most prolific rifle of the 20th century?

Travis Bickle
December 30, 2008, 01:40 AM
And true to form for a Mini-14, they couldn't hit anything with it either. Every one they ever came up against LIVED.

LOL! Touche.

SHvar
December 30, 2008, 03:11 AM
As far as magazines go, Ive had the same few for years. I bought some stainless mags back a few years after buying the mini-14 (I dont remember what year that was now) from a gunshow. These mags cost me about $12-$14 each and functioned flawlessly. The original mags I bought were clear plastic and junk, the stuff broke easy, sometimes did not lock the bolt open when empty, and had feed problems when dirty.
I will admit that the AK feels alot more substantial in your hands over the mini-14, and has more steel in the barrel to deal with heat.
The mini-14 is chambered for 5.56x45 according to Ruger although labeled .223 on the rifle, this is to make use of military ammo safely.
Keep in mind that years ago Ruger bought their barrels from another company that cold hammer forged them, at some time they invested in the equipment to make their own and have made big improvements.
My Ruger target rifle demonstrates this very well.
My 10/22 is accurate and never quits.

notorious
December 30, 2008, 05:22 AM
The AK is shrouded in so much myth and heresay that we'll never know the whole truth. Don't forget, a lot of what we know of its origin is also Communist propaganda made with the agenda to foster a certain thought toward them.

Mikhail in his later years self-aggrandized in interviews on the creation of the rifle, as he should, but that also leaves a lot of room for reasonable doubt as to the full veracity of his tales.

In the end, it is what it is, a ruggedly dependable rifle mass made for a military whose doctrine was based on "good enough" and "as long as it gets the job done". Russian weapons, if elegant and finely made, are purely creations of accident and not intentional, any similarities between Russian arms and finely made weapons are purely concidental and not meant to depict actual events and real persons.

lionking
January 4, 2009, 07:04 PM
OK so today I did a comparison.Based on the conclusion I got today,well take your pick in which you want a Mini or AK cause based on what I did today they are about the same in accuracy with stock iron sights,at least in my hands.I used a rest and shouldered the rifles.

Tried several ammo in each,with the Mini it was firing high so I zeroed it using Ferderal 55gr value pack ammo.Then when I tested the Mini with Winchester white box and Sellier&Bellot ammo,it shot low compared so much half the groups were off the replacement center target,go figuire.So I did 4 volleys with the Federal ammo in the Mini.

For the Romanian SAR1 AK I used Golden Bear,Barnaul and Fiocchi ammo.I got to say last time I tested ammo in the AK thr groups were wider and more spread than today.I think it has to do with me that then I hadn't fired a AK in a while and I felt more comfortable with it today.Today is the first time I fired the Mini in around 2 years so my comfort zone with it having been away from it for a while *might* have been a factor but I shot slow fire trying to take well aimed shots with both.


http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/lionking_rocks/mini%2014/005.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/lionking_rocks/mini%2014/009.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/lionking_rocks/romaniam%20sar1/015.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/lionking_rocks/romaniam%20sar1/015-1.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/lionking_rocks/romaniam%20sar1/013.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/lionking_rocks/romaniam%20sar1/012.jpg

CrankyOldGuy
January 4, 2009, 07:22 PM
Which Mini? The 580's (not the old tooling design as tested by lionking, you can tell by the thin barrel and sights) are far more accurate and have been available for the last few years. My older mini, was definately not as accurate, unfortunate I sold it and can't do a comparison.

Rested my new 580 (20" barrel with factory flash supressor) mini shoots groups from 1.5-2.5" depending on ammunition with factory iron sights and about 2-3" high at 100 yards with the factory zero. That's pretty darn good for my old eyes.

I love the AK (have owned a few), but I've never come close to that 1-2.5 MOA with one. My son's AKS was close, but people tell me that was a fluke and most don't shoot that well. I can't say from experience so I won't comment on that.

jhco
January 4, 2009, 07:57 PM
I'll keep my AK, thank you very much. That is if you get the right AK

What would the right ak be/what would the wrong ak be?

natescout
January 4, 2009, 08:22 PM
buy a daewoo dr-200 , cheaper than an a mini or ak, probably out shot both by good inch ?

lionking
January 4, 2009, 08:53 PM
Having shot both today,in my opinion my older Mini and the AK style rifles both have too thick of a front sight.Overall the sights on my Mini are easier to aquire a line up on the target,the AK with a slightly thinner front sight would make for better line up on the rear sight.

Was kinda surprised that the Mini didn't do better,the first volley was horrible,in the past it seemed to do a little better than today but that might have been "that day".Then again today is the first time I did several volleys through it to come to some conclusion.Was really surprised how the other ammo brands change elevation impact.But,if I were to shoot it more often performance might improve on my part also.When you go to the range with different guns every time just about it doesn't exactly make you real good with one gun.

The Mini or AK,if you were to engage something at 100yds you would probably hit,the new style Mini may ideed be better accuracy wise,but I'm not going to drop $500 or $600 beans on one to find out.....

CrankyOldGuy
January 4, 2009, 09:10 PM
lionking,

I agree, I also didn't like the old sights on the mini. The new post and ghost ring is a bit better if you like ghost rings. ;)

Unfortunately you had an old mini to test and I no longer have an AK to test against the new mini. My personal experience with the AK and older mini's does mirror your tests and I feel you did an fair test against a pre-580 mini and an AK.

I hope I didn't offend you with my earlier comments, I didn't mean to imply that you were biased or dishonest. You're testing does coincide with my own experience with both the AK and the pre 580-series mini-14s. 4+ MOA was standard for both.

All reliable information is good info, and your testing shows a reasonable and fair comparison with the early mini-14 vs an AK.

This is a good thread as many older mini's are now being sold as people purchase new ones. The first 3 #s in the SN will tell someone what series rifles they are purchasing.

Kindest Regards,
Cranky

greenr18
January 4, 2009, 09:29 PM
My dad would take the Mini-14, he loves them and told me just a few days ago at the gun store while we were looking at a rack with AKs, Mini-14s, AR15s, and other rifles "I love my Mini-14, still think it's the best of all." It all depends on who you are and what you're into. I'm guessing my dad likes Mini-14s because he knows and trusts the proven Garand style operation and it's basically a modernized (because it's .223, lighter, etc) M14 that could easily be used in modern combat. He's also fired the WASR10 and MAK90 I used to have and prefers the SKS over 'em probably because he's never really owned a rifle with a pistol grip and didn't grow up with anything like that. It could be a generation thing I don't know. I've had experience firing many different "assault" and battle rifles so far and I'd still trust an AK over anything else. They're accurate enough, very easy to take down and clean, I love 7.62 x39mm even if it's not the best cartridge out there, it's light enough and it's reliable and definitely proven. The AK though is a mixture of many different designs, including the M1 Garand and the Mini-14 is a derivative of the Garand seeing as how it works on a scaled down Garand action; they're both great rifles though. You can't really go wrong with either, though I can't say I'm a fan of .223, but again I personally would go with the AK.

lionking
January 4, 2009, 09:32 PM
No way to offend me about that,I'm just a little duh today about the differences I achieved with the AK verses last time.Last time the Fiocchi showed better potential yet today the Barnaul and GB ammo was tighter and more center compared to last time.Today I mentally felt better with the AK and really focused hard to try and use front sight focus with trigger and breath control so bad days vs good days so be it.As of today I guess I'll use Barnaul or BG ammo for normal range use and keep a reserve of Fiocchi for sometimes.But then again I tried the Banaul and GB ammo only once today.....

There is also the fact that I take different guns out constantly,which to get good with one you need to shoot that one gun often.Some guns are easier to shoot that others,obviously the AK and older Mini has it's limitations and you got to use it often to know it.For what they were made for accuracy wise I guess they do the job,scoped would probably do better but Im mainly into iron sight shooting and like to see what one can do stock as was made.

Until a couple years ago I was mainly a plinker,set up a empty BBQ tank or freon tank at 100yds and as long as I hit it and heard a ding...than cool.Alot different when you put it on paper,3inch difference on a tank at 100ds doesn't show like it does on a official size target.

And just a rant- bam bam bam bam bam bam!!! A guy using a shorty AR next to me putting out 30 rounds as fast as he can doesn't exactly make me able to focus on my shooting...got to a point that I just waited for him to stop.:rolleyes:It was funny what was wrong with that picture,everY guy with a AK or AR today was bam bam bam! as fast as they could while I was a lonely dude taken slow aimed shots with a AK bahaha!!!!

45B@cav
January 4, 2009, 09:45 PM
Ok your range reports are interesting but if you put any mini against a 5.45ak I will guaranty different result. Those 74's can really shoot. I'm not a fan of the mini but i'm not a hater either. It a good ranch rifle but itIT IS NOT A COMBAT RIFLE.I don't mean to insult anyone sorry if I did.

lionking
January 4, 2009, 09:52 PM
As a matter of fact I used a SAR2 also today briefly but ran out of time.It was shooting way left,got it hitting center now and from what I was able to see based on one volley of firing while not spectacular accuracy it did seem to do better than both the Mini and 7.62mm AK.The SAR2 in 5.45mm report will be coming soon.....

greenr18
January 4, 2009, 09:53 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but was not the Mini-14 designed with a police market in mind? Many police departments have adopted the Mini-14 and it has had a limited military market, it definitely is an adequate combat weapon.

notorious
January 4, 2009, 11:15 PM
It was definitely not intended for military use, but as for police specific, I am not too sure. The AC-556K may be the police variant but the regular rifle was probably intended as a truck rifle for ranchers, hence the improved "ranch rifle" versions.

We have Ruger Mini-14 stainless all weather carbines and they are fine for our purposes as we patrol a congested inner city area.

KBintheSLC
January 5, 2009, 04:16 PM
AK's are great if you want an ugly rifle that will shoot 12" groups.

I made it all the way to post #7 before the brainless and ignorant comments started up.

Weeee.

Back on topic...
I have both, and wouldn't hesitate to use either in battle. However, I wouldn't mind trading the Mini-14 in for a Mini-30...... Cheaper ammo and a consolidated stockpile.

30mag
January 5, 2009, 04:35 PM
What?
Neither one is available in .30-06?
...
Well, I guess I'm not interested.

expvideo
January 5, 2009, 04:44 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but was not the Mini-14 designed with a police market in mind? Many police departments have adopted the Mini-14 and it has had a limited military market, it definitely is an adequate combat weapon.
I think you are confusing "combat weapon" to be the same thing as "patrol weapon". They are different. A police officer will rarely ever need more than 1-2 magazines worth of ammunition in a fire fight. A soldier can use hundreds of rounds in combat.

Generally a patrol weapon is semi-automatic, while a combat weapon is generally select-fire.

A combat rifle is a different beast entirely from a patrol rifle. The mini-14 is marketted as a patrol rifle. The AK is a combat rifle. There is a difference.

benEzra
January 5, 2009, 11:36 PM
What?
Neither one is available in .30-06?
...
Well, I guess I'm not interested.
You can get an AK-ish rifle in 7.62x54R, a Russian cartridge that is their closest equivalent to .30-06.

From EdLaver's thread on his new Romanian PSL (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=417402), here's an utterly shameless pic crosspost:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=90396&d=1231055154

His 300-yard group using a 4x scope and Bulgarian milsurp ammo (147gr light ball), if I read him correctly:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=90455&d=1231183483

...which makes me wonder what it would do with higher power optics and premium match ammo instead of military surplus ball. Darn it, now he's got me wanting one... :D

I believe that in Warsaw Pact doctrine, this was used as what we'd call a "Designated Marksman" role.

politicaldookie
January 5, 2009, 11:53 PM
I have always wanted a Mini and plan on adding a 580 series 223 to the fold...that said the Romanian AK's I find to be great rifles for the $$$. I have three 10/63's and each of them can hit a target the size of a human head at 100 yards and that suits me just fine. They digest everything and are easy to maintain. :)

notorious
January 6, 2009, 12:51 AM
Police officers use 1-2 mags from their patrol rifles? Depends on what mags you are talking about! Even with the factory 5 round mags, that is a lot of shots for a police patrol response unless you're talking about the North Hollywood shootout.

We have 30 rounders for our Mini-14s and I would think nobody would go through more than 2-3 shots at 1 target if it came down to it... unless there were multiple targets or the target did not go down due to armor or something.

We have to be accountable for every single shot so shooting off 10 round equals 10 potential lawsuits.

KnightOfTheOldeCode
January 6, 2009, 02:18 AM
AK if it's decent quality has a lot going on the mini unless you just want a range toy that can double as a close range varmint gun.

expvideo
January 6, 2009, 03:30 AM
Police officers use 1-2 mags from their patrol rifles? Depends on what mags you are talking about! Even with the factory 5 round mags, that is a lot of shots for a police patrol response unless you're talking about the North Hollywood shootout.

We have 30 rounders for our Mini-14s and I would think nobody would go through more than 2-3 shots at 1 target if it came down to it... unless there were multiple targets or the target did not go down due to armor or something.

We have to be accountable for every single shot so shooting off 10 round equals 10 potential lawsuits.
Yeah, I just didn't want to start a flame war by suggesting that 1 mag was more than enough for almost any LEO situation. So I gave the leniency of "1-2", even though we both know that even that is more than a cop would ever need.

My point was simply that the Mini 14 is a patrol rifle and the AK is a combat rifle. That's not to say that they couldn't be used in each-other's role, but they are designed for specific purposes, and patrol and combat are not the same thing.

zombienerd
January 6, 2009, 04:37 AM
The Mini-14 is a semiauto M-14 clone, not an M-1 Garand Clone. Hence the 14 in the name. I know the M-14 was developed off the Garand platform, but they are not the exact same animal.

Detachable magazines, and various other minor upgrades were implemented, making it a completely new weapon. Otherwise they would have just added an alpha modifier, such as M-1(K) etc... as they do with most military gear when it's upgraded.

notorious
January 6, 2009, 04:41 AM
I would actually not pick an AK for an urban rifle role. It's loose tolerances may be good for reliability but I worry about the accuracy. I prefer an AR platform or even something simpler like the old Ruger PC9 which has been discontinued.

Besides, the liberals would have a field day with AK wielding cops... then we would really be called JBTs.

lionking
January 11, 2009, 07:37 PM
tried a SAR2 in 5.45x39mm today.Surprisingly Wolf black box shot the best,it shoots the worst in th 7.62mm one.Worst grouping was the 70gr Wolf military classic,the Golden Tiger shot decent but higer overall impact while the Wolf black box shot overall a tight pattern for a AK in my hands...


http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/lionking_rocks/romanian%20sar2/007.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/lionking_rocks/romanian%20sar2/014.jpg

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