1-16 twist .223 ? advice desired....


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hershey
December 28, 2008, 01:23 PM
hi all, i asked before on about a mystery gun i have, i bought a rebarreled savage in .223 24" heavy barrel w/ no markings, the warm weather gave me the itch to go outside and play yesterday. i loaded up 25gr of varget behind hornady 52gr hpbt match bullet and got some respectable groups. 1 1/4" minus the cold barrel shot and one flier.

when cleaning it i fussed around trying to figure out the twist rate w/ the cleaning rod. it is definately at least 1-14, quite possibly 1-16 if such a thing a exists, just looking for your comments on bullet selection, and powder load and your thoughts for my next batch of bullets, i/e increase powder, different powder, lighter bullet ?.....

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rcmodel
December 28, 2008, 01:31 PM
Very likely 1/14.

A 1/16 would be a one of a kind custom barrel, as nobody makes them with that twist rate.

If in fact it is 1/16, it could be a .22 RF bull barrel someone cobbled together on the action.
In that case it would be dangerous, not only from the poorer quality steel used in RF barrels, but from the under-sized bore.

I think it might be wise to slug it and measure the bore diameter just to make sure it is a .224" barrel, and not .223".

If it turns out to be a 1/14 .224" barrel, you will be limited to 55 grain and lighter bullets. And even 55 grain plastic-tip's like the V-Max may be too long to stabilize at .223 velocity.

rcmodel

snuffy
December 28, 2008, 01:39 PM
None of the above! Get a different barrel, that twist is nearly useless.

Be sure you are doing the measurement correctly. A tight patch, on a jag that can't turn in the rod, a jag that won't turn inside the patch, a solid rod, and a means of accurately measuring one rotation of that rod.

Put the rod in a corner of a door jam. Use a sharpie to make a mark all the way down the rod. Then insert it into the muzzle end of the barrel, make a mark on the end of the barrel directly even with the mark on the rod.Then make a mark across the rod even with the muzzle end. Then push the rod into the barrel until the mark on the rod aligns with the mark on the barrel. Then simply measure the distance from the first mark to where you ended up. The twist rate is the distance it took the rod to travel to make one complete turn.

R.W.Dale
December 28, 2008, 01:42 PM
i bought a rebarreled savage in .223 24" heavy barrel w/ no markings,

sounds like an aftermarket barrel to me. Look closely at the breach face, if this tube is a prefit from SSS or shilen the caliber and twist should be eletropenciled there

A 1/16 would be a one of a kind custom barrel, as nobody makes them with that twist rate.

not necessarily, many manufacturers offer a 1/16" twist .224 barrel

None of the above! Get a different barrel, that twist is nearly useless.


depending on the ranges the OP intends to shoot and his intended targets this bbl could still serve well.

this is what shilen offers in this caliber in the way of twist rates
.224 CF
- 8" for bullets heavier than 70gr.
- 8"* Ratchet rifled 4 groove
- 9" for bullets up to 70gr.
- 12: for bullets up to 63gr.
- 14" for bullets up to 55gr.
- 14"* Ratchet rifled 4 groove
- 15"* for bullets up to 55gr. driven 4,100 pfs or more
- 16:* for bullets up to 55gr. driven 4,300 fps or more

*= Stainless Steel only, what is the barrel in question made from?

rcmodel
December 28, 2008, 01:57 PM
- 15"* for bullets up to 55gr. driven 4,100 pfs or more
- 16:* for bullets up to 55gr. driven 4,300 fps or more O.K.!, You got me there.

Probably what I should have said is, A 1/16 .223 Remington barrel would be a one of a kind custom barrel.
I can't see any gunsmith doing it, as 4,300 FPS is pretty unlikely with a .223 Remington!

1/16 is a normal twist rate for the .22 LR however, and I really think he should rule that out by slugging the bore, for safety reasons.

rcmodel

R.W.Dale
December 28, 2008, 02:09 PM
I can't see any gunsmith doing it, as 4,300 FPS is pretty unlikely with a .223 Remington!


but it would shoot the ever livin pee out of 40 and 45grn and maybe 50grn varmint bullets at speed. A 1/16 .223 would be a very appealing proposition to a varminter for inside 300yds

627PCFan
December 28, 2008, 04:41 PM
My current Savage 110 barrel is a 1-14 Adams and Bennet, and it shoots 55grain NBT's 1/4" groups all day long with handloads. When I lighter to 35 grain Hornady vmax's group size goes up, but they are GREAT on groundhogs. Think of them as upsized 17 hmrs :)

Blast away

10 Spot Terminator
December 28, 2008, 06:35 PM
Either way be it 1 in 14 or 1 in 16 you should be able to get 45 0r 50 gr. bullets to fly like the wind . My best bud too has a Savage 110 with an Adams & Benett 1 in 14 and loves the 45 gr pills. Thing to note here is the jackets on some but not all bullets are made to handle really high speed loads. He shoots the 45gr. Sierra Blitzkings and will literally vaporize sage rats with them. at just under 3500 fps.

hershey
December 28, 2008, 08:27 PM
more comments... i was given 50 rds of loaded ammo w/ the gun, i put one in the bullet puller and it had a 30gr hollow point w/ 27gr of an extruded powder.

the round count acording to the previous owner is several 100 so i don't think the .223/.224 thing is an issue.

how about a few load suggestions? different powder? go to 27gr of varget?

this is new to me, i have always played w/ big heavy 30 cal stuff, i would really like to here what other guys are doing w/ these type of rifles. the only 2 powders i have played w/ are varget and rl-25, so some advice is needed here.

i can also say it is a very tight chamber, i tried setting the bullet out to 2.26(from 2.25) and had a tight bolt face and rifling marks on the jacket.

R.W.Dale
December 28, 2008, 08:32 PM
Is there anything electro penciled or stamped on the breach face of your barrel?

Varget doesn't work too well with bullet weights under 55grns, this powder is a little too slow and therefore too bulky to get light bullets up the the speeds attainable with other faster propellants

hershey
December 28, 2008, 08:57 PM
the breach face is stamped .223rem w/ two triangles positioned to form a diamond shape.

R.W.Dale
December 28, 2008, 09:11 PM
the breach face is stamped .223rem w/ two triangles positioned to form a diamond shape.

intresting? Most aftermarket bbl's I've seen have the twist rate stamped as well. Either way it's a drop in aftermarket tube. Might be a 1/14 twist A&B

Lloyd Smale
December 28, 2008, 09:15 PM
before id consider parting with it id get some 45-52 grain bullets and see how it shot. these are probably the best weights for varmit hunting with a 223 anyway. Faster twists are great in something like an AR that may be feed heaiver bullets like 70-80 grain match bullets but a bolt 223 doesnt have much need for them.

moooose102
December 28, 2008, 09:22 PM
None of the above! Get a different barrel, that twist is nearly useless
*yep, just run right out to wal-mart and pick up a different one.*

i dont know anout you, but i pretty much have to live with whatever barrel is on my gun. if for some reason i dont like it, i sell it and buy a different gun. if barrels were a drop in deal, it would not be such a big deal. but they are not. it takes a gunsmith to do the job, and there is a lot of other stuff involved. if i had a family heirloom that i had shot the barrel out of, i guess that would be a different thing. but for run of the mill rifles, you are just better off selling it and buying a rifle that fits your needs.

R.W.Dale
December 28, 2008, 09:27 PM
i dont know anout you, but i pretty much have to live with whatever barrel is on my gun. if for some reason i dont like it, i sell it and buy a different gun. if barrels were a drop in deal, it would not be such a big deal. but they are not. it takes a gunsmith to do the job, and there is a lot of other stuff involved. if i had a family heirloom that i had shot the barrel out of, i guess that would be a different thing. but for run of the mill rifles, you are just better off selling it and buying a rifle that fits your needs.

I guess you haven't messed with savages much. with a Savage it is actually that simple

You can order bbl for one and with a special wrench install it yourself at the kitchen table in half an hour.

snuffy
December 28, 2008, 10:33 PM
*yep, just run right out to wal-mart and pick up a different one.*

i dont know anout you, but i pretty much have to live with whatever barrel is on my gun. if for some reason i dont like it, i sell it and buy a different gun. if barrels were a drop in deal, it would not be such a big deal. but they are not. it takes a gunsmith to do the job, and there is a lot of other stuff involved. if i had a family heirloom that i had shot the barrel out of, i guess that would be a different thing. but for run of the mill rifles, you are just better off selling it and buying a rifle that fits your needs.

I guess you haven't messed with savages much. with a Savage it is actually that simple

Right on Krochus! Midway, at one time, had barrels that you could buy, along with the barrel nut tool. It DOES require a headspace gauge to set headspace. If you were changing cartridge head sizes, you need a different bolt nose/head, which is as easy to change as the barrel. As long as you stayed with the same basic cartridge size, the feed ramps and mag lips would still work. Like going to a 7-08 from a .308.

Ol` Joe
December 28, 2008, 10:44 PM
I guess you haven't messed with savages much. with a Savage it is actually that simple

You can order bbl for one and with a special wrench install it yourself at the kitchen table in half an hour.

Actually I have watched a guy at the club I belong to switch one out in about 10 minutes while sitting at the bench. Once you break the lock nut loose it is pretty much screw off, screw on with a headspace gage in place.

R.W.Dale
December 28, 2008, 11:01 PM
Right on Krochus! Midway, at one time, had barrels that you could buy, along with the barrel nut tool. It DOES require a headspace gauge to set headspace.

I've done changes with and without headspace gauges. Whilst you can and I have set up the headspace to my die set with a resized case I prefer to use a set of gauges as they provide much more feel when running the bbl in.

Getting the nut broke loose form the factory installation is the hardest step, once that's done bbl's can be swapped out very very quickly.

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