M1A Scope Mounting


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myhandle87
December 28, 2008, 05:48 PM
I heard a while back that mounting a scope to an M1A may be difficult. I have third generation scope mount and a Springfield scope. Anyone got any good tips?

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cuervo
December 28, 2008, 06:00 PM
Buy an ARMS or Smith or similar mount. I was never able to get the Springfield mount to stay in place. Do a search and you'll see many people had similar problems.

lipadj46
December 28, 2008, 06:20 PM
SEI has a weaver mount in the discontinued section that is $125. I think this is the best deal available for a steel mount and mounts the scope pretty low (I own this mount btw and highly recommend it). The ARMs mount is good too and gets the scope down low too. Sadlak also makes great mounts (same design as the SEI). Bassett Machine mounts are good 2 point mounts and do not require removing the stripper clip guide and remount without losing zero.

Unfortunately the SAI 3rd generation mount is one of the lower rated mounts. I have seen some that work but you generally hear bad things about them (not sure if they still do, but wacking the mount with a hammer used to be part of the installation instructions so no thanks). I know that there is an exact copy made by someone that is about $28 and pretty much the same thing. The problems mounting scopes on the M1A is not the mounts but the actual receiver. SAI has a bad reputation of having receivers that are badly out of specification and the mounts do not fit them. I know with the SEI mounts you have to tell Ron Smith it is for an SAI M1A and he has to machine the mount so that it will fit the M1A (as opposed to a real M14)

Jason_G
December 28, 2008, 06:30 PM
If you want a rock solid mount (which you really need for an autoloading .308), you ought to look at Sadlak, Smith, and ARMS for a start.

Jason

30Cal
December 28, 2008, 06:40 PM
The 3rd Gen mount has a reputation for generally not working well after more than a handful of shots without a lot of fuss.

Coronach
December 28, 2008, 06:42 PM
The answer is "Sadlak."

Mike

H2O MAN
December 28, 2008, 06:59 PM
Another option is a SAGE EBR stock with a LaRue SPR-E mount reversed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/CTinNV/Oct0101.jpg


Or a detachable cantilevered sight base from SAGE and your choice of rings.
http://www.athenswater.com/images/M14HDW.my_weapons.jpg

Jason_G
December 28, 2008, 07:15 PM
Another option is a SAGE EBR stock with a LaRue SPR-E mount reversed




Or a detachable cantilevered sight base from SAGE and your choice of rings.


I doubt anyone would want to spend that much money just to mount a scope. If you want the stock that's one thing, but if I'm reading the OP correctly, he just wants to put glass on his rifle. I could be wrong though.

I have to agree with Mike on the Sadlak. If I wanted optics on my rifle, this is the way I would personally go. They'll even send a kit to ensure that the mount fits perfectly on a (possibly out of spec) SAI receiver. Hard to beat that. I think the Smith would be my next choice, followed by the ARMS. JMHO, YMMV.

Jason

coyotewillie
December 28, 2008, 08:42 PM
It's general opinion that the Springfield M1A scope mounts are junk and will not hold up, because of the metal they're made of.....aluminum. No one feels the mount tightens up completly and that it flexes enough from both the firing heat/recoil, that it loosens even more. While a good share of M1A shooters won't scope their rifles, those that do, will at least go with a "good quality" steel mount. Greg

lipadj46
December 28, 2008, 09:47 PM
If I had the extra cash to burn I would get the Sadlak Titanium mount. The SEI and Sadlak mounts are more or less the same design and quality though. Sadlak is good if your receiver is out of wack as they have a customization kit. Smith will also customize a mount but you have to send in your receiver. The Sadlak Airborn mount is also pretty nice as any effort to lighten an M14 is welcome.

I still prefer the SEI mounts for whatever reason maybe because they offer the $125 weaver mount or maybe it is just the first mount I really wanted badly. Also I have gotten real good treatment from Smith, bought my mount used and he machined it to fit my M1A and reparked it for free.

Oh yeah that reminds me the SEI mounts need to be modified to fit on the SAI M1A so if you order one and they do not ask you make sure you say. Pretty much they have to make the mount a little thinner so the bolt threads stick out a little further to screw into the M1A receiver. Not sure if this is the case for Sadlak or not.

H2O MAN
December 28, 2008, 10:17 PM
Jason_G

I doubt anyone would want to spend that much money just to mount a scope.

It's an option that the OP and others may not have been aware of.

lipadj46
December 28, 2008, 11:36 PM
Another option is a SAGE EBR stock with a LaRue SPR-E mount reversed

It looks like that puts the scope pretty far forward though. Are you able to get the proper eye relief without craning your neck too far forward (even at higher magnifications)? I never actually used a sage so I don't know but that is a problem with some M14 mount/scope combinations, getting the scope low and back far enough, especially with the back sight in the way.

10X
December 29, 2008, 11:34 AM
Get a Smith Enterprise (SEI) Weaver mount for $125.
This is a rock solid steel mount that is as good as it gets at a great price.

Kingcreek
December 29, 2008, 11:43 AM
The OP already HAS a Springfield III gen mount and scope. it costs him nothing to try it before spending more money on another.
The SA mount has worked pretty good for me. You need to pay attention and mount it properly the first time. use consistant pressure on the mounting screws and torque them in gradually and evenly. Maybe I am a minority, but I've had no problems.

H2O MAN
December 29, 2008, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Another option is a SAGE EBR stock with a LaRue SPR-E mount reversed

lipadj46

It looks like that puts the scope pretty far forward though.
Are you able to get the proper eye relief without craning your neck too far forward (even at higher magnifications)?

Good question! I have not read of any eye relief problems with from users of this combo.
That said... I will soon be putting a Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x20mm MR/T M2 Illuminated SP Reticle in a LaRue mount.
This scope has a 30mm tube and up to 4.40" of eye relief.

I'm not certain, but I think this combo would work on a standard M14 with an UltiMAK hand guard installed.

http://www.leupold.com/_images/more_views/mark-4-1-5-5x20mm-mrt-m2-illum-reticle-angle.jpg (http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-4-mrt-riflescopes/mark-4-1-5-5x20mm-mrt-m2-illum-reticle/)

10X
December 29, 2008, 12:00 PM
Kingcreek, sure the OP should try the Springfield mount.
If it works for him, then great. I know I tried the mount and did not have good luck with it. The M1A has a lot of vibration when firing. The mount shot loose in a very few rounds with or without epoxy. I also felt the aluminum flexed. The M1A receivers are not all that spec consistent in the scope mounting areas sometimes it takes a high dollar/quality mount to work on these rifles.

All I can say is that the SEI mount is trouble free. It stays put, no flexing and no loosening.

lipadj46
December 29, 2008, 01:02 PM
This scope has a 30mm tube and up to 4.40" of eye relief

With that much eye relief yeah you should be fine.

The OP already HAS a Springfield III gen mount and scope. it costs him nothing to try it before spending more money on another.

Yes definitely try it but just be aware some have found it troublesome and the SEI Weaver mount is a high quality steel mount available for not much more money. If the OP has issues with the SAI Gen III mount he can dump it on Gunbroker for $80 and get the SEI mount and not take a bath in the process.

Coronach
December 29, 2008, 01:14 PM
The OP already HAS a Springfield III gen mount and scope. it costs him nothing to try it before spending more money on another.Define "costs".

If you mean it costs him no money to put it on and look at it, you are correct.

If you mean it costs him no money and time to put it on, look at it, sight it in, use it for a while, and suddenly discover (at an inconveninent time, perhaps) that the zero is shifting, and then fiddling with it for several more repeats of the zero-use-rezero procedure, I will respectfully disagree. You can waste a lot of time and money fiddling with something that is almost certain to fail eventually during regular use.

Mike

natescout
December 29, 2008, 01:58 PM
Are Springfield gen 3 mounts really that bad ?

Coronach
December 29, 2008, 06:21 PM
Bad enough.

I've never seen one go loose, but I've talked to enough people shooting Sadlak and SEI mounts who had Gen3 SAI mounts to do the math.

Smart people learn from their mistakes. Wise people learn from the mistakes of others.

Mike

lipadj46
December 29, 2008, 10:59 PM
I have heard enough bad reviews and with the SEI Weaver mount for $125 why bother taking a chance. I do believe part of the recommended installation of the SAI mount used to include hitting it with a hammer to get the aluminum to form better to the receiver does anyone have the current instructions to confirm this?

Dienekes
December 29, 2008, 11:06 PM
Avoid aluminum.:barf:

I have two SEI mounts; one with Picatinny rail, on my rifle briefly and now off (and for sale) and a later version that is ACOG-adaptable and in use. :) No experience with the other similar steel ones.

I can confirm that the SEI mount will need minor machine work to bolt up to the SA M1A. I sent my mount and rifle in to Smith to make sure it was 100% right--but they claimed (and I believed them) that they could make the alterations without the rifle. Something about relieving the locating lugs .030 for a proper fit.

Would rather shoot and handle the rifle with irons, but finally had to go to optics. In my case the loaded rifle, sling, mount and optic pork it up to about 13.5 pounds, and that is quite enough to throw around IMHO. :scrutiny:

mljdeckard
December 30, 2008, 12:21 AM
What I know, I learned the hard way.

I bought used a M1a Standard with a 3rd gen mount, and dedicated SA optics with the graduated reticle and bubble level. The scope was fantastic for me, I wish I still had it. (I wound up putting it on a Rem 700 VS .308.)

The main problem I had with it, was that it offers so little versatility for eye relief that I couldn't shoot it without having it ding my eyebrow. I realized quickly, that with that mount at least, it's not enough to just get the scope on the rifle. You have to get a raised or adjustable comb so that you can actually get a proper angle when shooting it, a G.I. stock won't do it. I wound up selling it and going back to a bolt rifle.

I wasn't shooting it faster than I would shoot a bolt-action rifle anyway.

lipadj46
December 30, 2008, 12:43 AM
Pretty much all M14 mounts require a cheek piece or comb riser of some sort to raise your eye up to the scope level for a proper cheek weld, otherwise you will have more of a chin weld. I have seen a couple scopes up really far too to the point I can imagine the person would have to crane their neck pretty far forward. This is a limitation of the M14 platform you just kind of have to accept it or buy the LRB receiver with the built in scope rail for big bucks.

Red State
March 31, 2009, 05:31 PM
Does the ARMS 18 mount sit low enough that the iron sights can be used when the scope is not mounted?

For example, you take the scope off with QW rings, can the irons then be used without having to remove the mount?

Gewehr98
March 31, 2009, 06:00 PM
In fact, I'll counter Coronach's bold statement above.

The answer is "ARMS #18" :neener:

You can dismount the scope and rings, and use the iron sights no problem. You cannot, however, use the iron sights at the same time as the scope, because it sits so low that the scope blocks the view underneath.

How low? Here's my M14NM w/ARMS #18 and a Weaver V-16:

http://mauser98.com/m14nmrightreceiver.jpg

Silverado6x6
March 31, 2009, 07:30 PM
I see you have a little pad under the scope, do you think a patch of brushed on Rhino Lining or Herculon that has rubber chips in it would work? I did the bed in my truck with Herculon, great stuff.

trbon8r
March 31, 2009, 07:34 PM
Gewehr,

Your Armscorp receiver sure looks a lot nicer than the one I bought. The one I purchased had every single edge rounded off, especially at the heel of the receiver. It looked like a metal bar of soap. I sold it without building it, because I couldn't handle the way it looked.

Lazuris
March 31, 2009, 07:46 PM
http://www.sadlak.com/si_rifle_parts_sm.html


If someone pm's me on how to post photos i'll post my scope mount setup using the Sadlak mount which is awesome.

lipadj46
March 31, 2009, 09:06 PM
Here is my SEI weaver mount (it is sold out btw, never to return):

The rifle is back in walnut now.

With my ring choice it is probably only 1/8 inch higher than with an ARMS mount (if that). The scope can only get so low before the rear peep gets in the way.

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/IMG_1099.jpg

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/IMG_1104.jpg

Adventurer
March 31, 2009, 09:22 PM
I have a real SA 3rd gen mount, but took it off because I was shooting open-sight matches. If anyone wants it, PM me and make me an offer I can't refuse.

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