Selling reloads


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Grassman
December 28, 2008, 05:58 PM
Is it against the law to sell reloaded ammo? This may be a really stupid question, but I don't know? I thought about selling some ammo to support my loading habit, or is that a big no-no?

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rcmodel
December 28, 2008, 06:04 PM
Perfectly legal, if you have a manufacturers license from the AFT.
And a butt-load of liability insurance!

And pay Federal Excise, Income, State & Local taxes on the sales.

rcmodel

Birdhunter1
December 28, 2008, 06:09 PM
What if I were to sell a rifle and the ammo I had loaded specifically for that rifle?

I am not planning on doing this but if I were to sell my AR-15 I'd be as well off to sell the ammo I have loaded specifically for that rifle as it won't shoot worth a hoot in my other .223.

rcmodel
December 28, 2008, 06:18 PM
I am not a lawyer.

But I don't believe you would be considered by the ATF to be "in the business" of making and selling ammunition if you sold the ammo with the gun in a one-time transaction.

I might consider getting a signed "Release of Liability" statement from the buyer though.

rcmodel

Geneseo1911
December 28, 2008, 06:26 PM
Once again, I'm not an expert, but I've never been to a gun show where someone wasn't peddling ziploc baggies full of reloads.
It's your property and you can do with it as you please. I also know I've never seen anything regarding it in the IL comb. statutes; not sure about TX.

If the alphabet gang can prove you are in the business however, that -may- be a different story.

I won't be buying your ammo, nor will most anyone else here. Nothing personal, but I would only use ammo I loaded myself, or that loaded by a person or company with deep enough pockets (or insurance) enough to pay for my gun and medical bills if they screw up. Even then, I'd rather not experience a kaboom.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
December 28, 2008, 06:33 PM
I heard that it is a felony to reload for anyone but yourself.

ilbob
December 28, 2008, 06:36 PM
You need an ammo manufacturing license from the ATF to make ammo for sale.

rcmodel
December 28, 2008, 06:40 PM
peddling ziploc baggies full of reloads.Probably some guy selling crack in the parking lot too.
But that doesn't make it legal.

rcmodel

Geneseo1911
December 28, 2008, 07:19 PM
Well, after looking in my conveniently bookmarked "Handbook of Federal Firearms Regulations", I stand corrected. A license is required. I'd like to know how these guys at shows get away with this.
With the way the ATF usually operates, I would think they''d have to prove they didn't load them.

thirdeagle
December 28, 2008, 07:23 PM
I included some reloads in a recent transaction. I don't reload but "my guy" does. He has an FFL so I can only assume he's licensed to make and sell his own ammo, including reloads. He sold them to me and they're as good if not better than any "factory" ammo I can lay my hands on locally.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
December 28, 2008, 07:25 PM
Maybe it's those guys who are doing the selling, or maybe they kind of make it look like anything goes at this show, when in reality, they are watching EVERY MOVE.:scrutiny:

You know, waiting for the BIG ONE!

fog
December 28, 2008, 07:43 PM
you have to have a different ffl license dealing with manufacture of ammo however you can reload for people only if you have one persons stuff on bench at a time (cant do for more at a time) camr directly from my atf agent when he did my inspection

mgregg85
December 28, 2008, 07:54 PM
What about trading with reloads? Or does that fall under the sale law as well?

NavyLCDR
December 28, 2008, 08:54 PM
Just for info, this is what the Federal law defines as manufacturing and engaged in business. You can sell your reloaded without a license only to recover the cost of materials but you can't charge for your labor or make a profit on the materials.

(10) The term “manufacturer” means any person engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for purposes of sale or distribution; and the term “licensed manufacturer” means any such person licensed under the provisions of this chapter.

(21) The term “engaged in the business” means—
(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;

ar10
December 28, 2008, 11:02 PM
Are you telling me that last batch of 100000 reloaded 9mm I sold to some guy from another country at the gun show is illegal:confused::confused::confused:

Thin Black Line
December 29, 2008, 09:53 AM
It's your property and you can do with it as you please.

Last seen printed under a sign also reading "Welcome to Deadwood" somewhere
in the the western territories in the 19th century...

BTW, welcome to 21st century Amerika.

SpecialKalltheway
April 18, 2009, 02:14 AM
"(21) The term “engaged in the business” means—
(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;"

so if it's irregular then it's ok?

I actually searched for this thread not to just crack a joke, but was wondering if anyone knew what it takes to get licensed to sell reloads?

woof
April 18, 2009, 09:17 AM
If you are going to let reloads go with a rifle make the selling price the rifle alone and give the ammo away.

TexasRifleman
April 18, 2009, 10:29 AM
You can sell your reloaded without a license only to recover the cost of materials but you can't charge for your labor or make a profit on the materials.

"In the business" does NOT mean just making a profit.

The ATF definition also includes, besides profit:

a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit

It says "and" profit, not "or". So the elements must both be present, profit AND a principal objective of making a livelihood. This would appear to allow the occasional sale of personal items, even for a profit.

ATF also published a rule, 75-31 that says in part:

Although the term “engaged in the business” is
not susceptible to a rigid definition within 18
U.S.C. §§ 841-848, it is interpreted to imply an
element of continuity or habitual practice;



It would appear from those writings that OCCASIONAL sales of ammo and firearms, even for a profit, is legal.

But then you have to argue about when it becomes "habitual" or "continuous".

But, simply making a profit does not by itself constitute "in the business".

Buck Snort
April 20, 2009, 01:51 AM
There ain't NOBODY buy'n my reloads.

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