Should I wait to apply for CCW in Maryland?


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natecade1
December 29, 2008, 02:03 PM
I am currently 20 years old and was reading the maryland gun laws and it does not say you have to be 21.

I was wondering if it would be prudent however to wait a few more months before applying for one?

I couldn't find anything in the text of the law about a wait period after being denied, but does anyone know of one?
Also if you've been denied once, do you know if they're likely to even consider an application from you again?

any insight is appreciated.

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kingpin008
December 29, 2008, 02:17 PM
If there's no age limit specified, go ahead and apply.

However, expect to be denied, no matter how old you are. Maryland is May-Issue, and the wording of the laws in regards to permit issuance are pretty ambiguous, which means that the powers-that-be at the MSP aren't going to hand out permits to any of us little folk if they don't have to.

Basically, you're going to be told no no matter how old you are, or how much danger you're in.

Welcome to Maryland.

If you're interested in fighting it, I suggest you contact the folks over at marylandshallissue.org and talk to them about what you can do about it. They're good folk, and have been working very hard to get our laws changed to something more reasonable.

natecade1
December 29, 2008, 02:29 PM
Ok so it's the folks at MSP that actually issue?
thats good for me.
Also I've been a victim of two violent crimes in Prince George's County and heard that was often a reason good enough for issuance.

rob b
December 29, 2008, 02:46 PM
save your money and time DONT apply
the fee is non refundable and you will be denied

kingpin008
December 29, 2008, 03:06 PM
Ok so it's the folks at MSP that actually issue?

Yup.


Also I've been a victim of two violent crimes in Prince George's County and heard that was often a reason good enough for issuance.

It's not. I'm not saying that to be mean, but in their eyes, it's not going to be enough.

To put it plainly, getting a CCW permit in Maryland is like finding snow in hell. It's just not going to happen.

If you want an idea of how hard it is for a regular citizen (someone who's not a politician, a businessperson transporting large amount of cash, or a current or former LEO) to get a permit, check out http://www.progunprogressive.com. Sebastian has been working alongside the Baltimore PD for years cleaning up his neighborhood and taking it back from the dop dealers, and he just recently (after a HUGE fight) to get a carry permit.

It's not as easy as having a history of prior violence against you. Sad, but right now it's what we have to deal with.

**EDITED TO ADD**

To be clear, I'm not trying to dissuade you from applying - that's not the case at all. I think more people -should- apply. If they did, the MSP would have to start explaining to a lot of people why they don't think the right to effective self-defense applies to them. Maybe then things would start to change.

I'm just trying to show you how much nonsense you're going to have to deal with in order to get what you want - if you even get it at all.

30 cal slob
December 29, 2008, 03:30 PM
i personally would be somewhat reluctant to apply knowing that the odds would be stacked against me because i am (and would be) required to disclose CCW application denials on every forthcoming CCW renewal (in other states).

kingpin008
December 29, 2008, 03:40 PM
I personally would be somewhat reluctant to apply knowing that the odds would be stacked against me because I am (and would be) required to disclose CCW application denials on every forthcoming CCW renewal (in other states).

I've heard that before, but nobody's ever been able to prove that that is a necessity when applying for permits elsewhere. If you could provide cites of such, I'd appreciate it for my own knowledge.

In the meantime, let's assume that you are required to disclose any previous applications in other states - I fail to see how a denial would affect you negatively in the future, if it had nothing to do with your criminal history.

Now, if you applied for a MD CCW permit and were denied because of something like a domestic abuse charge or some other type of felony, I can see that being a barrier to an application in another state - and rightly so. But an denial based on an arbitrary judgement of "need"? Nope. Any other state isn't going to care, since it has nothing to do with you being legally disallowed from carrying, and everything to do with MD's arbitrary permitting system.

00-Guy
December 29, 2008, 04:08 PM
What are planning on legally carrying? Unless it is a long gun, you're out of luck since you need to be 21 to purchase a pistol. Or you have parents with very deep pockets who are willing to assume the liability of you carrying their handgun.

Read about Sebastian at progunprogressive.com. It is a long trudge even when events and circumstances should favor you.

I agree with kingpin008. By all means apply. You might be one of the lucky ones. As for me, I would rather play the lottery. I believe that the odds are better that I might win.

natecade1
December 29, 2008, 04:35 PM
00-guy, I figure if I apply now and get the permit by the time I get it I'll be 21 and would like to carry a compact .40.

thanks for all the info. I think I will probably wait til I'm in law enforcement...
Which could be any day now, I have already passed my polygraph and have a conditional offer of employment from MSP.

mljdeckard
December 29, 2008, 04:41 PM
When you do turn 21, the age seems like no big deal anymore.

And when you do, I would apply for non-resident permits from states like Utah and Florida, whose non-res permits are honored in 34 states, last I checked. You may be ood-scray in MD, that doesn't mean you never go anywhere else.

I would also very much agree with the above in being active to push your leaders to look at the state's gun laws realistically.

CoRoMo
December 29, 2008, 04:49 PM
I've been a victim of two violent crimes... and heard that was often a reason good enough for issuance.
__________________
Proud to be an American!

Quite the dichotomy there.

natecade1
December 29, 2008, 04:52 PM
well one of them was kinda my fault. Of course I should have known better than to get gas at midnight. /sarcasm

Carl Levitian
December 29, 2008, 04:59 PM
I've been a resident of Maryland for most of my life. I've never seen anyone I know have any luck getting a permit.

May as well buy lotto tickets with the fee. You'll have better luck, maybe.

MAKster
December 29, 2008, 05:38 PM
If you are on the verge of becoming a Maryland State trooper then you don't need a concealed carry permit. Your police credentials will allow you to carry in every state in the U.S.A.

natecade1
December 29, 2008, 05:45 PM
If you are on the verge of becoming a Maryland State trooper then you don't need a concealed carry permit. Your police credentials will allow you to carry in every state in the U.S.A.

I thought that the LEO Safety Act just said other states have to recognize the LEO's home state permit. So I would still have to get a permit to if I wanted to drive up to my friends in NY and keep a handgun with me.

That was my understanding, but I'm no lawyer so I'm not sure, although I have completed an undergraduate legal studies major.

mgkdrgn
December 29, 2008, 05:46 PM
Well, you have two choices:

1) You can apply now and be denied and be out the application fee

2) You can wait until you are 21, be denied and be out the application fee

Bottom line, unless you are "connected", or -maybe- if you walk around with wads of cash on a daily basis, you are going to be denied. Can't take a chance on you doing some harm to the criminals out there just trying to make a living.

Maryland is one of the most 2nd amendment unfriendly states in the nation. (one of the reasons I moved to SC).


I am currently 20 years old and was reading the maryland gun laws and it does not say you have to be 21.

I was wondering if it would be prudent however to wait a few more months before applying for one?

Landric
December 29, 2008, 05:48 PM
If you are in the hiring process with the State Police, I would strongly suggest that you NOT apply for a CCW in Maryland. Such an application in an anti-gun state like MD might actually decrease you chances of being hired. They might, after all, decide that you are only interested in being a trooper so you can carry a gun.

I thought that the LEO Safety Act just said other states have to recognize the LEO's home state permit. So I would still have to get a permit to if I wanted to drive up to my friends in NY and keep a handgun with me.

Not true at all, so long as you meet the statutory requirements (which you would as a MSP Trooper), you do not need a home state permit, just your badge and ID (and IIRC, only the ID is required by LEOSA, not the badge).

MAKster
December 29, 2008, 05:53 PM
Under the LEO Safety Act, if you are a qualified LEO you are exempt from all state concealed carry laws. All you need is your department issued photo ID.
http://www.leaa.org/218/218text.html

CoRoMo
December 29, 2008, 06:01 PM
Should I wait to apply for CCW in Maryland?

Nope. Use that money to move to a more RKBA friendly state.

kingpin008
December 29, 2008, 06:19 PM
Nope. Use that money to move to a more RKBA friendly state.

Right. Because running away from a problem is always the best way to handle things.

No, let's not invest some time and money into pro-RKBA groups in the states where the fight is the most urgent. Let's all just pick up and run with our tails between our legs to somewhere that doesn't show us any opposition. After all, those pesky anti-gunners won't follow us, nope...

natecade1
December 29, 2008, 06:24 PM
Maryland is pretty hunter friendly though. Especially the western counties. I just absolutely love living in western MD, although if I do get into MSP they will put me where ever they want, most likely Baltimore area.

Thanks MAKster for the link,

mgkdrgn
December 29, 2008, 10:41 PM
Think it not as running away from the problem as it is "voting with your feet" and running towards the solution.

No matter what you or I think or do, Maryland will -still- be an anti 2nd amendment state long after we are dead and gone.


Right. Because running away from a problem is always the best way to handle things.

usp9
December 29, 2008, 10:56 PM
Maryland State Police require you to have a reason for being issued a permit. Mine was issued because I carried deposits to the bank daily. The permit had the restrictions right there, which basically stated I could CC to work, at work and back home. Find a reason they will accept and you will get one for that reason. FWIW, I was issued my first permit when I was 22 years old ('70s), so it is possible for a young guy to get one.

Have a reason, Personal safety is not a reason unless you are a Maryland personality or lawyer. Wait until you are 21 and can own a handgun.

I immigrated to Virginia several years ago and now enjoy the Constitution much more.:D

kingpin008
December 30, 2008, 12:06 AM
Think it not as running away from the problem as it is "voting with your feet" and running towards the solution.

But it is running away. Maryland may not be a great place 2A wise, but we've got a hell of a lot of good people fighting to keep it from getting worse. Leaving doesn't help us, it hurts us. Which, in case you didn't realize, hurts all of us. What gets passed here, and in other states where gun rights are on the ropes, gets proposed nationally.

And how long do you think escaping to a more friendly state will be a "solution"? As I said, the anti's don't just want Maryland. They want the entire US to be rid of guns. You can't run forever. At some point, you're going to have to man up and fight back. Might as well do it sooner than later.

Think it not as running away from the problem as it is "voting with your feet" and running towards the solution.



No matter what you or I think or do, Maryland will -still- be an anti 2nd amendment state long after we are dead and gone.

Well, if we all had that sort of attitude ("why even bother trying, it'll never change!") you might be right. Fortunately, there are quite a few of us who actually believe that we can do something about the way things are, and take action to make it happen. Maybe one day you'll see fit to lend a hand too.

chris in va
December 30, 2008, 01:01 AM
You won't get a CC permit in MD, sorry. Unless you're in a high-risk profession or know the elite.

mgkdrgn
December 30, 2008, 09:52 AM
I was -in- Maryland for better than 25 years, and no matter what I did or thought or voted for, the situation never got better, only worse. And it got more crowded, and more expensive. Then the ADIZ came and pretty much gutted general aviation, so I sold my plane while I could still get something for it and got the hell out.

I use to travel a lot for work, and often not to the best of places. Wife told a friend of mine that worried her sometimes, and his response to her was that I wasn't the "victim type". Too young, too big, to fast, and to aware of what was going on around me. I'm still too big, and hopefully aware, but young and fast are gone now.

Maryland tells me "well, that's just too bad son, you'll just have to cower in your house, we can't have you protecting yourself from criminals, you might hurt them." Oh, and here is your (massive) tax bill ... have a nice day!

So, sold the 1500 sq' TH in Columbia MD with no parking (which paid for my 2,000 sq foot single family with garage and in-ground pool here twice over), and moved to a state that recognizes my 2nd amendment rights. THEY get my tax $'s now. And with no ADIZ, I don't have to ask anybody permission to go fly. I have my CCW, and am working on an FFL.

Let the Anti's have NY, MD and Kommiefornia. Once enough of them get mugged maybe they'll finally get the message ... but I don't have to wait for them to do so.

But it is running away. Maryland may not be a great place 2A wise, but we've got a hell of a lot of good people fighting to keep it from getting worse. Leaving doesn't help us, it hurts us. Which, in case you didn't realize, hurts all of us. What gets passed here, and in other states where gun rights are on the ropes, gets proposed nationally.

And how long do you think escaping to a more friendly state will be a "solution"? As I said, the anti's don't just want Maryland. They want the entire US to be rid of guns. You can't run forever. At some point, you're going to have to man up and fight back. Might as well do it sooner than later.

Think it not as running away from the problem as it is "voting with your feet" and running towards the solution.




Well, if we all had that sort of attitude ("why even bother trying, it'll never change!") you might be right. Fortunately, there are quite a few of us who actually believe that we can do something about the way things are, and take action to make it happen. Maybe one day you'll see fit to lend a hand too.

The Foo
December 30, 2008, 10:21 AM
I know people who've gotten a MD permit with ease. As said before, it takes knowing the right reason to ask for one.

mgkdrgn
December 30, 2008, 12:36 PM
In other words ... they lied. :evil: (or at least stretched the truth)

I know people who've gotten a MD permit with ease. As said before, it takes knowing the right reason to ask for one.

CoRoMo
December 30, 2008, 01:05 PM
Let's all just pick up and run with our tails between our legs to somewhere that...

...allows law abiding citizens to protect themselves and their families.

...doesn't pick and choose which law abiding citizens are eligible to exercise their 2nd Amendment right.

...views gun owners as responsible.


No state is going to tell me when, where, and how I am allowed to protect myself and my family, and then not expect me to move to another state that allows me that basic right. That is more important than a futile effort to change the hearts and minds of libs with no common sense.

CoRoMo
December 30, 2008, 01:10 PM
I was -in- Maryland for better than 25 years, and no matter what I did or thought or voted for, the situation never got better, only worse. ...so I... got the hell out.

That's good advice for all RKBA believers living in CA/NY/MD/IL/NJ/MA/etc.

wrxguyusa
December 30, 2008, 01:29 PM
My past research into MD permits seemed that they are really for protecting commerce not people. Carrying money and high value goods etc. are the only reasons I could find.

I moved to VA.

natecade1
December 30, 2008, 01:52 PM
hmm well if I say I frequently escort extremely high value (we're talking in the millions of $$$) items around the state then maybe they'd give it to me. lol

toivo
December 31, 2008, 03:32 AM
I personally would be somewhat reluctant to apply knowing that the odds would be stacked against me because I am (and would be) required to disclose CCW application denials on every forthcoming CCW renewal (in other states).I've heard that before, but nobody's ever been able to prove that that is a necessity when applying for permits elsewhere. If you could provide cites of such, I'd appreciate it for my own knowledge.

New York State's pistol permit application form asks if you've ever had a permit denied or revoked anywhere. I'm pretty sure they'd hold it against you--otherwise, why would they ask?

kingpin008
December 31, 2008, 03:40 AM
I'm pretty sure they'd hold it against you--otherwise, why would they ask?

Because they'd love to have any reason to deny you a permit?

My point is that a denial for a legal prohibition due to a criminal record (which is almost certainly what they're looking for) is quite different from a denial due to failure to meet an arbitrary and state-specific stipulation (ie - "good and substantial reason, as the MD law states)

Since a denial based on "good and substantial reason" is done on a purely judgement basis, and not a legal basis (no law was broken) I can't see how it would matter. Put simply, you're either legal to carry, or not. A denial that isn't due to a violation of a law does not preclude one from being legally allowed from owning a firearm, and since the conditions required for one to CCW are virtually the same as being able to buy/own a gun in the first place, it should stand to reason that CCW is not affected by a denial based on non-legal events.

That said - if anyone is able to provide actual proof of an incident where an individual who was otherwise completely legally eligible for a permit in a particular state was denied due to a previous denial in another state based upon the arbitrary and undefined language of that state's law, I'll gladly admit to being wrong.

toivo
December 31, 2008, 04:46 AM
My point is that a denial for a legal prohibition due to a criminal record (which is almost certainly what they're looking for) is quite different from a denial due to failure to meet an arbitrary and state-specific stipulation (ie - "good and substantial reason, as the MD law states)

Agreed. But any criminal record should already have been disclosed in the specific questions about criminal history and should show in the background check that they're supposed to do. Basically, that question just gives a dishonest applicant one more opportunity to lie. You wonder why they include it. Maybe a "yes" answer triggers a deeper level of background check or something.

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