FFL Question


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cbrgator
December 30, 2008, 03:22 PM
If I wanted to ship a firearm, AR lower, etc. to someone out of state, I know I have to ship to an FFL. I myself do not have one. Why do some FFL's only accept shipments from other FFLs?

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Kurt_D
December 30, 2008, 03:45 PM
CYA move on their part.

nalioth
December 30, 2008, 03:47 PM
CYA move on their part. A completely useless CYA on their part.

I've not heard an excuse for this practice yet that makes any kind of sense to me.

mgkdrgn
December 30, 2008, 05:31 PM
A completely useless CYA on their part.

I've not heard an excuse for this practice yet that makes any kind of sense to me.

Until some non FFL ships them:

1) A stolen or illegal firearm. Now the FFL either has stolen/illegal goods on his books, or has a firearm that he does not own -not- on his books.

2) A firearm meant for someone who, for whatever reason, can't have that firearm in their state. Now he's stuck with a firearm he can't sell, and can't ship back to the sender, and has no way to recover his costs if he ships back to another FFL for the seller.

More than one FFL has been caught in this trap and kissed their FFL adios. Make sense now?

nalioth
December 30, 2008, 06:12 PM
1) A stolen or illegal firearm. Now the FFL either has stolen/illegal goods on his books, or has a firearm that he does not own -not- on his books.If he doesn't have any money in it, he's not gonna lose anything when the law tracks it down and recovers it. If he doesn't know it's stolen, how is he in trouble? If he sells it on, he shows the cops his bound book entry and 4473 and they go talk to the buyer. I'm not sure how this can cause trouble.
2) A firearm meant for someone who, for whatever reason, can't have that firearm in their state. Now he's stuck with a firearm he can't sell, and can't ship back to the sender, and has no way to recover his costs if he ships back to another FFL for the seller.Federal law allows shipment back to the owner w/o the services of an FFL on the original senders end. It's covered under 'repairs'. Whether this happens is between the receiving FFL and the seller.

Bubba613
December 30, 2008, 06:28 PM
It's just a matter of dealing with someone who supposedly knows what he's doing. Not that all FFLs know what they're doing, but most do.

I'll personally take a transfer from an individual but I've rethought it many times.

NavyLCDR
December 30, 2008, 08:14 PM
A completely useless CYA on their part.

I've not heard an excuse for this practice yet that makes any kind of sense to me.

+1. Even those excuses for this practice posted above. Just my humble opinion.

mgkdrgn
December 30, 2008, 09:59 PM
If he doesn't have any money in it, he's not gonna lose anything when the law tracks it down and recovers it.

Ya ... tell that to the FFL who had an individual ship to him an AR that had been altered to full auto. Guy wasn't even in his shop when it arrived, hired help opened the box and put it on the bench.

Friendly ATF agent walks in for a surprise visit, full auto gun with no paperwork, no more FFL and a nightmare of legal expenses to try and stay out of jail. (this is from a previous thread about the case here on THR)

nalioth
December 30, 2008, 10:16 PM
Ya ... tell that to the FFL who had an individual ship to him an AR that had been altered to full auto. Guy wasn't even in his shop when it arrived, hired help opened the box and put it on the bench.

Friendly ATF agent walks in for a surprise visit, full auto gun with no paperwork, no more FFL and a nightmare of legal expenses to try and stay out of jail. (this is from a previous thread about the case here on THR) Yeah, I've heard this story, too. When I heard it, it was not an AR. The whole juxtaposition of alleged events (no matter what weapon is involved) spells S-E-T-U-P to me, anyway.

Bubba613
December 30, 2008, 11:07 PM
The whole thing sounds fishy. A guy sends an altered AR to an FFL? The ATF just "happens" to walk in at that moment? The agent just happens to notice that it is full auto, I guess by the sign marked FULL AUTO on the gun. I dunno. I'm not buying it.

mgkdrgn
December 31, 2008, 12:43 PM
In any case, to accept arms shipments as an FFL from a non FFL (we are talking here about an individual about which you know next to nothing) strikes me as a real "pig in a poke" deal.

Will it be OK most of the time? Probably. Will that one "bad time" really ruin your day, put your FFL, your business, your bank accounts and your freedom in jeopardy? Youbetcha.

Worth the risk? Up to the individual FFL.

Yeah, I've heard this story, too. When I heard it, it was not an AR. The whole juxtaposition of alleged events (no matter what weapon is involved) spells S-E-T-U-P to me, anyway.

nalioth
December 31, 2008, 02:01 PM
In any case, to accept arms shipments as an FFL from a non FFL (we are talking here about an individual about which you know next to nothing) strikes me as a real "pig in a poke" deal. This is the problem with society today.

No trust in your fellow man.

A mans word ain't worth the hot air used to utter it.

'nuff sed

CoRoMo
December 31, 2008, 02:06 PM
They lack knowledge, fortitude, and/or motivation.

mgkdrgn
December 31, 2008, 07:28 PM
Hey, I know a guy in Nigeria that could use your help ... he needs someone here to help him move $14.5 Million into the US, and he'll cut you in for 10%!

;-)

If you're willing to bet your livelihood on the word of total strangers .. more power to ya.

This is the problem with society today.

No trust in your fellow man.

A mans word ain't worth the hot air used to utter it.

'nuff sed

MisterPX
January 2, 2009, 02:39 PM
who had an individual ship to him an AR that had been altered to full auto. Guy wasn't even in his shop when it arrived, hired help opened the box and put it on the bench.

Outcome would have likely been the same if it came from a FFL. ;)

mgkdrgn
January 3, 2009, 11:38 AM
Outcome would have been the same no matter what the source ... but how many FFL's would risk -their- livelihood and freedom by shipping a full auto?

The point being, another FFL is a source that has been checked out by ATF and has something substantial to loose if he/she screws up. Accepting shipments from Bubba Joe Blow puts -all- the loss risk on the receiving FFL.

Outcome would have likely been the same if it came from a FFL. ;)

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