Off center flash hole ?


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joneb
January 1, 2009, 11:19 PM
Lately I've been working on some(new to me) 9x18 Mak loads. I've reloaded some Federal brass without issue, today I re-sized 200 G.F.L. AKA Fiocchi 9x18 brass :barf: 25% of the flash holes were centered in the primer pocket, 50% were so so and 25% looked like this;
90254
All of this fired although it was not that accurate, I assumed this due to the hot factory loading, but now I am wondering if the off centered flash holes could make a difference ? any thoughts ?

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The Bushmaster
January 1, 2009, 11:23 PM
And another reason (besides oversized primer pockets after one reload) not to use GFL cases...I have usually clasified them just a bit better then A-merc. Now I guess I'll have to put them right next to them...

Sorry...Other then that I have no other thought on GFL cases...

Walkalong
January 2, 2009, 12:58 AM
I have had some GFL range pickups, but none with the bad flash holes.....yet. They certainly are not the best brass out there.

TooTaxed
January 2, 2009, 02:10 AM
Fiocchi brass is rather notorious for uneven flash holes. After having my Lee decapping pin stuck in undersize flash holes to the extent they pulled out of the die, I quit reloading Fiocchi-marked 9-mm Luger cases.

(I still have an A-Merc .223 case with NO flashhole! I'm seen several... the primer just backs out when fired...of course the cartridge doesn't fire. Uneven reports among the ones that do fire. Quality control can't get much worse than that!)

On the other hand, I've not noticed problems with GFL-marked cases. I'll take another look at them, as I do have some sorted.

I doubt that off-center flash holes have any effect on accuracy, as long as the main powder charge is ignited. Variable flash hole diameters are likely to have an effect on primer set-back. But if quality control is that bad, there is likely some unacceptable variation in powder charge and bullets, also.

10 Spot Terminator
January 2, 2009, 05:45 AM
Hi guys !

You were throwing me a curve here with this thead as I was expecting to be seeing something different. I think you ment to refer to the "primer pockets" being off center and not the flash holes ??? The spent primers I see show the firing pin strikes to be off center as would be the case with primer pockets being off kilter. If the flash holes were off center from the primer pockets wouldnt we be seeing some damaged decapping pins here ? I have not been cursed with any bad brass yet but do want to know what to watch out for,,,,

The Bushmaster
January 2, 2009, 10:46 AM
Quite a few firearms hit the primer cup off center. Does not mean the primer pocket is off center.

fguffey
January 2, 2009, 10:48 AM
Jibjab, off center flash holes are not the norm, they are common, I purchased 1,000 LC MATCH unfired 30/06 cases, all had off center flash holes, most because 7X57, 8X57, 7.7 Japanese and 7.65X53 BM, the off center flash hole did not effect primer removal, and when I went to the range I was not telling myself, "I am the only person out here with off center flash holes, everyone else is using cases with flash holes that are centered".:)

F. Guffey

alsaqr
January 2, 2009, 10:54 AM
Jibjab, off center flash holes are not the norm, they are common, I purchased 1,000 LC MATCH unfired 30/06 cases, all had off center flash holes,

This is very common with Lake City Match brass. One of the lots of LC 62 Match ammo that i have on hand has every flash hole off center.

Grumulkin
January 2, 2009, 11:19 AM
In one batch of 222 Remington brass I bought, several flash holes were off center. One was so far off center I doubt a primer could even have ignited the powder.

I don't understand how anyone would say off center flash holes make not much difference in accuracy when some go to such lengths as deburring flash holes, uniforming primer pockets, etc.

I doubt many handloaders even look for off center flash holes. I didn't start looking until the day I tried to deprime a case and put the pin through solid brass since the flash hole was off center. Now, the centering of flash holes is part of my brass inspection process. If the flash hole is off center even a little, that case gets discarded.

I've used a fair amount of CMP Lake City 30/06 brass. I would say 25% to 40% of that brass has off center flash holes and gets pitched. Once I've done that bit of quality control, that brass makes VERY accurate ammo.

The Bushmaster
January 2, 2009, 11:20 AM
Yer kidding...Both of you...I have well over 100,000 preped cases in various calibers and manufacturers and none have off center flash holes. Or none that are visible to the naked eye at any rate. Every time I run into an off center flash hole my decapping pin notifies me of that fact by not decapping that case as the case will not enter the resizing die all the way...

If, on the outside chance, that I find an off center flash hole that case gets pitched in the recycle bin...

Grumulkin
January 2, 2009, 11:25 AM
Yer kidding...Both of you...I have well over 100,000 preped cases in various calibers and manufacturers and none have off center flash holes. Or none that are visible to the naked eye at any rate.

Maybe you should have your eyes checked.

Matt Dillon
January 2, 2009, 11:58 AM
Once I scrounged most of a box of 50 PMC in .38 caliber and most of them had off-center primer holes

The Bushmaster
January 2, 2009, 12:05 PM
Hummm...How did Grumulkin get in between the other two and me. Gotta speed up my trigger finger...:D

My eyes are just fine. And so are my resizing/decapping die pins. Haven't broke on in 22 years...

Walkalong
January 2, 2009, 12:08 PM
Off center flash holes have been a rare bird with me as well.

USSR
January 2, 2009, 01:22 PM
Off center flash holes have been a rare bird with me as well.

Ditto. And I have thousands of Lake City Match brass ('62 - '65).

Don

SlamFire1
January 2, 2009, 02:24 PM
I have thousands of LC69 30-06. That brass has lots of off center flash holes.

The contractor running LC probably got a waiver from the Army to deliver the brass with off center flash holes.

I don't know when McNaruma closed the Government Arsenals, fired the Government workers, and let LC become a Government Owned, Contractor Operated facitily, but it was probably around LC65. By 1969 the Contractors in charge of LC had run the reloading equipment into the ground.

rfwobbly
January 2, 2009, 08:45 PM
I see a lot of brass that LOOKS like it has off-center flash holes after de-capping. Then after tumbling and cleaning they magically move back to the center. So either it's an optical illusion caused by the burn marks, or I have magic Dillon tumblers!

If I saw brass like yours, I would toss them. IMHO, good 9mm brass is simply too common to worry about mis-fires or breaking a de-capping pin by using junk brass.

Just my 2 cents.

joneb
January 2, 2009, 11:02 PM
good 9mm brass is simply too common
:confused: I rarely find 9x18 Mak brass and when I do it's steel. Here I thought I had plenty of brass saved, but most of it is Fiocchi :( I bought a 1K rnds about 5yrs ago for $125.
I don't have a pistol chambered for 9x19 but I have some brass, I guess I've got some trimming to do :D

D. Manley
January 3, 2009, 01:42 AM
Odd. Despite the comments above about Fiochhi/GFL brass, I've had zero problems with it in 9MM, .40 and .45. I only have around a 1,000 or so not currently loaded of each caliber but it's fully cleaned & prepped and I've not run across anything like this. I don't know if it's just the photo but the flash holes look on the big side to me as well as off-center.

Ohio Gun Guy
January 3, 2009, 01:44 AM
See your Doctor! Sounds personal! :eek:

joneb
January 3, 2009, 02:22 AM
I don't know if it's just the photo but the flash holes look on the big side to me as well as off-center.
I have a pin I turned to clean the crud from flash holes it measures .0805" dia, it will not fit these Fiocchi flash holes, they are somewhat smaller. This pin will fit all other brands of brass I have reloaded.

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