[Badger Arms]

Try it out. I think this one is fairly simple.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=505527

[Gabe]

Singapore SAR-21 flattop.

You know their current issue rifle is a desendent of the AR-18. Wonder why they're moving to a bullpup, long stroke piston no less.

[M67]

Wonder why they're moving to a bullpup, long stroke piston no less. I had the opportunity to fondle some variants of this contraption last week. The sales rep I talked to described the mechanical design as "simple, functional, based on known technology" or words to that effect. I have no idea why that should make it better than the SAR 80. Maybe the same reason some people are changing from M16 to M4. Make a shorter gun, divide the model designation roughly by four...

[Badger Arms]

I think that my picture (pulled from the internet) is from that Norway display. Now, I ask you, when has an Asian weapon EVER made any impact on the European market? I can only imagine that they were looking for other Asian, South American, or African buyers there. Still, I want one.

One interesting thing to note about the layout of the new weapon is the charging handle. There is a slot on the side of the gun, but I can't see a bolt handle. Is it possible that the charging handle is on the left, but they made slots on both sides? Could they have made a model that, like the AUG, has the ability to convert to true left-handed operation. Their marketing for the SAR21 suggested that ejection was satisfactory for lefty users shooting it from their left shoulders.

[M67]

Badger Arms, that Norwegian display was not an international trade show, it was a Norwegian Defence Forces thing. No Asians or South Americans there except maybe the odd military attaché and such. It was a bit odd though - I'm only in my mid 30's, but I'm still old enough to find it a bit strange to run into NATO officers in Polish and Hungarian uniforms...

Norwegian forces are currently looking for a pea-shooter to replace the current service rifle - whatever you think of the G3, at least it's chambered in a grown-up caliber.

Singapore Technologies entered the SAR 21 in the selection process. They did not make the short-list, which is currently down to the HK G36, Diemaco (it apparantly took a Canadian company to make a decent M16 :) ) and the FN F2000 (which looks like - and IMO feels like - it was designed by an eight year-old crack smoking Star Trek fan :D ).

If I remember correctly, the SAR 21's charging handle was on the left side, but I don't think it could be converted to "true" left hand operation. If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. Maybe ejection is "satisfactory" for left hand shooters, but I would still be uncomfortable with a gun that ejected hot brass close enough to my face to burn nosehair...

When you mention it, your picture probably is from the exhibit I was at, I remember those little numbered stickers on the guns. Small world - here I handle a gun at a local exhibit in Norway, and a couple of days later an Alaskan posts a picture of the very same gun on the Internet. :)

BTW, where do you think the selector switch on that SAR 21 is located (note that I call it switch, not lever)?

[Badger Arms]

Hmmm, well I'd heard it was in a bad place, but nobody mentioned where it was. There's that button on the front of the triggerguard... Is that it? I had an older article laying around, but I'd rather not dig that one up right now.

[Gabe]

http://world.guns.ru/assault/sar21_3.jpg

This is from fellow forumite Max Popenker's site, you can see the charging handle from the other side. Also I believe the selector is in the buttstock.

[Badger Arms]

Gabe, I don't think that's the same gun. Notice the subtle differences in the barrel-mounted swivel and lack of a bayonet lug. I think that both of these guns are pre-production models and modifications are being made as they go. I don't think that a finalized Export model is necessarilly going to be set in stone until (and unless) a large order materializes. It's a shame, I'm a righty. Despite the fact that I am against the Bullpup as an infantry weapon, that doesn't mean I don't like them for personal use. :D

At any rate, it makes more sense to locate the charging handle in the same place as on the AUG. The gap in the above photo (that below the scope rail) does not appear in the Norway photo. It also appears that they've simplified the operating rod housing by removing all of those oblong holes and replacing them with a long slot, but the pictures aren't quite good enough. Anybody have access to better pictures or a hands-on account of the weapon that they'd like to share?

[M67]

Gabe, the selector is indeed the button you can see in the picture you posted, half way between the magazine well and the buttplate.

Really awkard if you have to use the gun one handed while hanging upside down from the landing skid of a helicopter, trying to save the beautiful she-spy with your other hand... ah, I see my reality check bounced - again. But I still found the selector a bit awkward or at least very unfamiliar.

Badger Arms, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a civilian version. I asked a sales person from the manufacturer if there was such a thing, and he looked at me like I had suddenly turned green, sprouted antennae and asked him to take me to his leader. He said gummint sales only.

I don't have any hands-on experience with the gun beyond fondling, and I was looking at a lot of other stuff that day, so there was a bit of "sensory overload" and blurred impressions. I do remember that there were several versions of the SAR-21 present, with different types of rails and sights and such. I think all of them had the integrated laser sight, though.

[max popenker]

Gabe, I don't think that's the same gun.
Badger, it IS the same gun, but in diferent configuration.
It is available for gov't users in USA via VT Systems, see'em here: http://www.vt-systems.com/land_weapons_products.asp

some details also available at my website, see http://world.guns.ru/assault/as31-e.htm

Note that the RIS version has side-mounting charging handle, while standard version has top-mounted one.

BTW, your picture shows SAR-21P (Picatinny rail) version of the basic weapon.

[Badger Arms]

Max:

Thanks. We agree. I was saying that it wasn't the same gun, not that it wasn't an SAR-21 but that it wasn't the same model. I'll look at the web site. I saw the SAR-21 written up in a gun rag a while ago so I'd imagine police sales are welcomed.