[Peter M. Eick]

I was out at the range yesterday with some of my early 38/44's. I had out an April 1930 HD with service grips and yes I have not worked out how to shoot service grips well yet. Here is the results of 50 rnds at 15 yrds.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/lowsn_1.jpg

Not my best shooting as the gun was flopping in my hand. I just can't get a good grip on it.

I next worked on my 6.5" 1936(?) HD shooter. Excellent gun but a very tight cylinder. Again, I have not yet mastered the service grips yet.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/65hd_shooter.jpg

I shot about 700 rnds out of these guns yesterday and have not yet worked out a good hold with them. I know some will say get a grip extender but to me that defeats the purpose of trying to shoot these guns in original form with original power level loads.

Oh yeah, just to show that I can shoot with the right equipment. Here is 50 shots at 15 yrds with more modern hardware:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/41_target1.jpg

I definately need more range time with both types of guns.

[MrBorland]

I know some will say get a grip extender but to me that defeats the purpose of trying to shoot these guns in original form with original power level loads.

Nice guns & good shooting.

I have trouble with those little bitty service grips, too. I had the same idea that I ought to be dead accurate with the original grips. I had to experiment to get my grip to accomodate the narrow top of the grip. Some days, it felt better to tighten the bottom 2 fingers (pinkie and ring) and relax my middle finger, whereas on other days I felt I got more control by doing the exact opposite.

I felt with enough practice I could've figured it all out, but that would've been a LOT of practice, and given there are grips that fit much better, I left it as a romantic notion and decided all that practice would be best put to more productive use.

I still shoot my M10 with service grips occassionally, but I don't demand much of myself with it. I've got other stuff that fits much better.

BTW, a blatant plug for sure, but check out my Fun Shoot. Right up your alley.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=416582

[wcwhitey]

Very nice! My compliments as the owner and shooter. Grip adapters like the Tyler T grip have been around for a very long time. I am not completely up on their history but they were invented for the very problem you are having. I don't think that they would considerably distract from the historical correctness of the revolvers if you used them.

[Deanimator]

Get Tyler "T-Grips" for them. They, or similar products, go WAY back. In fact, the purists on the S&W Forum consider them quite "traditional". I have one on my late '40s M&P. It's an entirely different gun with it on.

[Old Fuff]

Part of your trouble is caused by the N-frame’s bore line being higher in the hand, which causes more upward torque. Also if you move out further then 15 yards the point of impact/point of aim may be closer to center.

Do keep in mind that knowledgeable shooters were buying and using stocks made by Walter Roper during the 1930’s and later. ;)

[parisite]

Nice shootin.
Don't worry about shooting it as is. Get some grips that are comfortable and put the originals up.
All my Smiths have Hogue rubber grips on them. Very nice for extended range time.

[Master Blaster]

I bought a used model 22 a couple years ago, this is the TR reproduction of the 4" blued 22 that S&W never actually made in the old days.

It looks alot like your 4" heavy duty. Anyway it came with tiny exotic wood service grip reproductions. I found it impossible to shoot the gun DA without it twisting in my hand and messing up my accuracy. SA was little better as the recoil from .45 acp with these grips was unpleasant :eek: and would make it twist in my hand as well. I suspect that is why the first owner traded it in a month after he bought it.

I put a set of hogue wood finger groove grips on it, huge difference.

[BCRider]

I think you're protesting too much. :D

For a gun with the grip and sight issues you've got I'd be more than happy with that sort of grouping at that range.

I'm guessing that a lot of it has to do with the sights. Mount that fancy red dot (magnifying?) scope on the .38 and you'd likely be able to zero the groups in that much better. Mount nicer grips and again it would close the groups down.

But then where would the challenge be, right? Sounds like you'll have some fun coming to terms with these old pistols.

[AJMBLAZER]

Nice old Smiths.

Target looks good and dead to me.

[rishooter]

I had the same problem with my 22-4.I put some Pachmayrs on it -problem solved:)

[rishooter]

to mention that S&W has a reproduction of the 1917 45 ACP revolver and they are also calling this one the Model 22-4.:confused:

[Oro]

Do keep in mind that knowledgeable shooters were buying and using stocks made by Walter Roper during the 1930’s and later.

yep, and S&W invented grip adapters in the mid-30s, too, to deal with "service" style grips.

I agree with Deanimator. I put Tyler grips or older plastic Mershon or Pachmayr plastic grip adapters on all my guns with Magna or service grips that I shoot very much.

[Peter M. Eick]

Thanks for the comments.

I have a couple of sets of S&W grip adapters, and one came with my Registered Magnum. The problem I have with them is the after market type leaves marks on your grips where you install them and the Registered Magnum type are expensive.

Still this has become a "personal" thing to me. A few years back (maybe 5 or so) I was complaining that I could not shoot Magna's well. I remember the post well. The key advice I got was maintaining a consistent grip and after several years of work I would say I have nearly mastered Magna's. I view the service grips as somewhat the same challenge. I am too old and obstinate to quit now on a challenge like that. It is admitting defeat to say I cannot figure out how to shoot service grips well.

When I shoot Magna's I index the frame with my pinkie and this allows me to maintain a consistent grip. This technique would not work well for me on the service grips so I slid up the frame and indexed off the recoil hump of the frame. This puts the small grip where I cannot get a good bite on it. I will have to keep experimenting and just figure it out.

I have too many (something like 8 now 1930's HD's) revolvers to buy aftermarket grips for. Especially Roper's which make pre-war Magna's look cheap. :)

Anyway, I will keep you guys appraised this year as I sort this out. It is my personal goal this year to sort out shooting service grips and to move back to the 25 yard line. 15 yrds is starting to get too "easy". ;)

[Brian Williams]

Peter, your targets make it look easy. Thanks for another look at a portion of your collection.

[hoptob]

Awesome guns! Thanks for report, Peter.

Generations of shooters tried to warm up to service grips. I mean they look great and they are "right" for the guns. Not everyone succeeded, so good luck with that. :)

Mike

[Onmilo]

Pick up a set of aftermarket grips to use while shooting your revolvers.
Keep the factory grips for when you are admiring the firearms.

You don't want to crack or ding up those hard to replace factory stocks with use anyway.

What kind of loads were you shooting?

[twoclones]

Very nice groups!

[krs]

I shoot my two M1917's with issue grips frequently and the pistol invariably moves in my hand due to the recoil, so I let it. I just take my grip, make my shot, and take a new grip for the next.

I'm not above using my off hand to assist with repositioning the pistol in my hand but I do all shooting one handed in the NRA style, the way they were meant to be fired. ...:)

[MrBorland]

It is my personal goal this year to sort out shooting service grips and to move back to the 25 yard line. 15 yrds is starting to get too "easy".

7 yards ought to be a snap, then. :neener:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=416582

but I do all shooting one handed in the NRA style, the way they were meant to be fired. ...

Good to hear, krs - this Fun Shoot is right up your alley, then, too. Check it out.

[Peter M. Eick]

The loads were just shy of full blown 38/44 loads. They were very hot Unique loads as I am trying to burn up my unique.

[Brian Williams]

If you are trying to burn up your Unique, what are you going to use instead?

[Peter M. Eick]

SR 4756. I found it meters better so I started a whole new stack of ammo on the pile and bought special brass for my real 38/44 high speed loads. My load here was "the" standard unique load for a 158 in the 60's. Now it would be considered +P+ buy a few tenths of a grain on the revised loading suggestions online.

I currently have loaded up a ladder test in SH4756, Unique, 2400, power pistol and longshot. I just need a few hours at the range with the chrono to make sure I am not getting too hot.

My goal of this load is simple 1100 fps with a 158 out of my 5" Heavy Duty and 1150 fps out of my 6.5" OD's or HD's.

[chriske]

My S&W N-frames (28-2 & 624) get almost as much use as my K-frames (14-3 15-3 & 17).
I can shoot none of them with the "service"-type grips your revolvers wear in your photos.
I fitted all of them with Pachmayr gripper pro's.
Getting groups like yours is challenge enough for me, without having to wrestle with an awkward grip.