[jahwarrior]

.....and it's not a good thing.

after being out of work for a few months, i finally landed a forlklift operating gig with a local shipping company last week. like so many other businesses, they don't allow their employees to carry weapons on the property; that means, not even locked in my car.

my second day on the job saw me working on the floor, with a few others, trying to get an order out in a hurry. one of the guys strikes up a conversation, about the Penn State/USC game. i said that i wasn't much of a football guy, and that i was a more of a hoops kind of guy.

"oh yeah? well, me too, but it's not like we gotta a lot of choice at the work center."

that's not exactly what i expected to come out of his mouth.

during the course of the day, i discovered that over 75% of the guys working there are felons who are either on parole, on work release, or have done their bid. and it's not like these are just child support deadbeats, or shoplifters, or kids who got busted with a bag of weed; i found out that most of them were in for violent felonies: assault, attempted murder, rape, armed robbery, etc.

it gets better. these guys are walking around with boxcutters.

if finding a job wasn't so hard in this area, i would have walked out. listening to their lunchtime conversation, most of them aren't penitent in the least. most of the conversation consisted of how they couldn't wait to get home, so they could pop some vicodins/score an eightball/get some rock/find the dude who snitched/go to the bar and get hammered/etc, etc, etc.

i understand that every man deserves a chance to be forgiven, but while i put their pasts behind me, i'm keeping my gun right next to me, while i drive that forklift.

in the meantime, i'll continue to send out my resume, so i can get the hell outta there ASAP.

[John828]

Just keep your head. I've spent plenty of time around felons and never really felt skeerd. The last thing you want to do is escalate a situation where cooler heads would have prevailed.

[expvideo]

i understand that every man deserves a chance to be forgiven, but while i put their pasts behind me, i'm keeping my gun right next to me, while i drive that forklift.

in the meantime, i'll continue to send out my resume, so i can get the hell outta there ASAP.

Sounds like a good plan. I wish you luck in your search.

[General Geoff]

Your life is worth more than a temp job company policy. Deep concealment for the win.

[JImbothefiveth]

Watch your back, they are felons after all. AND DO NOT LET THEM KNOW YOU haVE GUNS! Keep them concealed.

[mbt2001]

errrr

Keep talking sports and weather. Don't mention guns or anything, if you have a nice watch, get a cheap one and talk about it. Talk with your boss and tell him that your wife has been being harrased by an ex boyfriend and that you would like permission to keep a peice in a lock box in your truck for the drive home. Maybe you have to pickup your wife... Maybe your not married, well then say it is your sister / mom so on and so forth... If that doesn't fly:

Pepper spray ring
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/personal_safety/stunningring.php

Neck Knife
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/Neck-Knives-p-1-c-385.html

Various Hidden knives
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/Hidden-Knives-p-1-c-387.html

Regular pepper spray as well

I don't know how else to say it, but RESPECT means a lot to these people, if you give it to them and do not get to personal, maintain discipline, you will earn it from them.

[ahpd1992]

Been there, but this was way before CCW was even being considered in the 80's. I worked with all walks of life, ethnicity, race, religion what have you. To make matters "tense" most everyone I worked with knew I was attempting to become a police officer. Except for a few minor disagreements, most of these guys were working stiff's trying to pay their bills like you and I. They pretty much ignored me, but I did give them a wide berth. You hafta realize if they can hold down a job, their ahead of 99% of the dirtbags your worrying about. At least you know they can show up to a job and take direction from a boss. That is a HUGE deal, most of these guys do their criminal behavior and keep it separate from work. Use caution, but if you mind your business, they will probaly mind theirs.

Of course you can find yourself in a bad situation, I would without a doubt be prepared (yes CCW against company policy) just in case.

BTW working these jobs really was good training when I became a police officer, I pretty much knew how these guys ticked, and was a lot more at ease around "the element" than most new guys

Tom

[jahwarrior]

one of the funny things that happened at work was one of the supervisors saw a knife i was using to cut open boxes; it was a Spyderco karambit. he warned against me using it, saying the bosses didn't like knives like that; they're too scary looking. meanwhile, everyone is walking around with boxcutters and bandwire shanks.....

[TRGRHPY]

i found out that most of them were in for violent felonies: assault, attempted murder, rape, armed robbery, etc.



Oh, so you went to work on Capitol Hill? You know how those congressmen can be...

[Big Bill]

I worked with a felon one summer hauling hay when I was 17 and by the time the summer ended we were good friends. I'm 60 now and we're still great friends.

[mokin]

I've sort of found myself in a similar situation--that is, working around convicted felons. All of us have all sorts of knives on us. My boss doesn't trust a lot of the guys we work around and often carries openly so I guess guns are not a problem. I carry concealed and let no one know I'm packing. I don't even talk much about guns around work. And yes, some of these guys are great and seem rehabilitated and working around them and getting to know them is a great way to find out how they think.

[HeavenlySword]

good luck man.

[LightningJoe]

You may not be in any danger, but they don't sound like the kind of people you'd want to be around. What if you were promoted to a supervisory position? Sounds like adult daycare.

[John828]

Tell you what. Just be yourself, give them some "respect," and you'll be fine. Carry if you want, but I can almost promise, it will never be necessary. If they are showing up for work, they have at least a little self-respect.

I lived in the "'hood" for three years in Minneapolis where drugs and prostitution were the major industries, gun shots were at least a weekly event, and I only felt threatened once or twice. I walked or took the bus everywhere at all hours. At first, I was always looked at as a cop because I had a real clean cut appearance and really did not fit in with the environment, but after a while, I was just who I was: a neighbor. I never approved of what they did, but if the police could not control them, could I? Hell no!

I say, work your job, get another one if/when you can if you want, and just be yourself. Their definition of respect may be a little off kilter, but when you learn it, you can get away with a lot with that stereotypical population.

[Grassman]

I'm in a little different situation, I am the boss/owner. I have employed felons, in fact I have one working for me right now. He seems to have turned his life around, I also had ones that worked for me that went right back to jail. Some will turn it around, and some will never turn it around and continue to be a burden on society.

[Hardtarget]

One thing you can do is be the same every day. Speak to and be on good terms with everyone. Don't blend in with talk about drugs /tough guy talk ect. They will see you as a "I don't do that" type...and they will just leave you out of that part of the day to day chatter. You'll be fine. Don't be condescending or "holier than thou". Just be you and let it be.

Mark.

[yongxingfreesty]

you will be alright! just be aware of your surroundings

[notorious]

You know, it's not a prison so these guys aren't going to be punking you out or trying to shank you at every moment on a shotcaller's orders.

Relax. Concentrate on work. Don't disrespect these guys just as you wouldn't disrespect anyone else. Felons are a different bunch but if you're cool with them, they have better things to do than mess up their parole and job for you when it doesn't get them anything.

Just think of it in terms of what is in it for them. It's instant gratification for these guys, so just don't give them a reason. Keep your guard up but you don't have to be more paranoid than usual. I've worked with regular Joe Schmoe citizens that I wouldn't trust to turn my back on either. At least with cons, you know where they're coming from.

[Big Bill]

Make friends with your co-workers, maybe you'll learn something.

[ferretray]

I absolutely disagree with Big Bill's advice. You do not want to become friends with these guys.
I wouldn't want them to know one thing about me or spend one minute with them that wasn't work related. I never invite unnecessary drama into my life.

[FatGeek]

Make friends with your co-workers, maybe you'll learn something. I agree with this in the context that HardTarget put it:...be the same every day. Speak to and be on good terms with everyone. Don't blend in with talk about drugs /tough guy talk ect. They will see you as a "I don't do that" type...and they will just leave you out of that part of the day to day chatter... Don't be condescending or "holier than thou". Just be you and let it be. Bringing up firearms with anyone at work IMO immediately puts you on the radar those around you that you are inclined to carry with or without permission. Bringing it up around management in most jobs can jeopardize staying employed. Let it remain unspoken.

[notorious]

The point of carrying CONCEALED is that it is CONCEALED, from being physically seen carrying to letting people know you are carrying. It's a total package. If people know you're carrying because you talked about it... it's not concealed anymore.

[shdwfx]

Mbt2001 and John828 have good advice.
These guy's life and language revolve arround the (granted fuzzy) concept of "respect."
It's a wierd psychology, but it's their oxygen. They crave and demand it. I think a large factor in this is the abscence of loving male parenting for most of them.

[notorious]

Pick your cliche... their mothers held them too much or not enough, that sneaky uncle with the midnight visits, etc.

[Kind of Blued]

As long as you aren't breaking the law, go for it. Just make damn sure it stays concealed unless you are 100% sure that your other option is death. Shooting a co-worker is a not good for the resume. :eek:

Tin foil hat time:
How many other recently employed, non-felon, forklift-operating men there are in Scranton, PA? Be careful with the details, or don't. I would.

[TAB]

Just a note, if your cuaght with it, your chances of getting another job basicly just went out the window.

Being fired for violating weapons policy is almost as bad as beening fired for stealing.

[sm]

Hardtarget's post number 16 is spot on.

To which I will add:
-Respect.
-Do not divulge anything personal, not by verbal language, or non-verbal language.


Now you do have a great learning opportunity if you play it right.
Street Savvy.

You will learn things from various models of criminals, if you pay attention.
You do not have to do anything illegal, just set your boundaries, and earn some respect from these folks.

Just paying attention, will teach you a lot. If these folks choose to share something, listen, do not eaves drop, or butt in, but listen when they choose to share with you anything.

Reading the room - me


Just start paying attention to how do , or how not do things. Listen to them when they suggest something, there most likely is a very good reason.

NO wannabe behavior, they will con you and take you down.

There is a opportunity here, if this is played right.
Internet is full of 'what if's', armchair rangers, net-ninjas and ...some of these folks have no friggin' idea a real world exists, and their post will get folks hurt, injured, raped, maimed or dead.


Don't look like prey- think like a criminal-mentors-n-me

Some of my Mentors do include Ex-Cons.
I also was allowed to spend time in some small town jails, to listen and learn, as some Mentors were in Police work.

Dead serious.

I was born in the mid 50's, into hi-risk life things, and spent my life in such settings. All legal.

I knew how roll a cigarette using cigarette papers and cigarette tobacco as kid, as folks rolled their own (RYO) back in the day instead of smoking a "hard-rolled" ( store bought cigarettes.

Ex con shared how Bugler was the number one tobacco in jails/prisons, and when the concession came by a con/inmate was only allowed one book of matches.
These matches had to last, as pouch of Bugler came with 40 cigarette papers, and enough tobacco to roll that many cigarettes.
A book of matches only contains 20 matches.

"You split the match into, and now you have 40 matches in that matchbook" - ex con.

Ex cons taught me , law enforcement, and some ladies how to use a carton cutter, box cutter, screwdriver, toothbrush, pen and pencil as "offensive weapons".

"If you know how to take down a mark, then you can defend yourself against being a mark, and be taken down" - ex con.

A rash of bad things were going on, as a "crew" had come to a town.
Now I am not a cop.

Still some serious things were going down and ...I needed to know to protect me and mine and our work.
So went to that part of the country, and asked to be put in jail.
I knew some of the cops, as did our body guards.

I rinsed my mouth out with Wild Turkey, and got some soap in my eyes and was tossed for DWI /DUI, on a Friday night.

I had nothing but my smokes, and matches, but I had arranged to snatch a chrome Cross Pen from the cop.
All planned.
I was "drunk" calling this cop a Pig, and going "Oink" and pissing him and every cop in the jail off, and being cheered by others in jail.

They saw me snatch that Cross Pen, and nobody gave me up.
I was seen splitting matches, and folks took note.

I used lessons from ex cons to stay in jail until Monday morning when I even went to see the Judge.
I darn near got tossed back in the slammer for 10 days for contempt of court.
All staged, still the Judge did not like me suggesting his parents were not married when he was born.

This got me introduced to some "fellas" that invited me into their circle.
Hi-Risk stuff I was doing, and I was part of ( I hate the words "elite" or "special") still I was part of the ones that did things at a more risky level than others.

I got information, valuable information. Me and mine called what we did "Playing the game", sick humor to stay sane.

The "crew" left town.
I was still accepted and was given information about some other fellas I might like to meet, and was spoken for.
This is how I got in with illegal cock and dawg fights.

My vouch allowed an Undercover Cop to become part of this illegal cock and dawg fight ring, and he eventually became a pit boss.

This is why Cops listen to Jailers, and Correction Guards.
So do criminal attorneys.

Oh, I made my "bones" with the illegal cock and dawg fight bunch , by using a single shot , youth, .22 rifle at the back of the knee to "encourage the rest of the money would be paid when due".

I did not really, again a staged deal and even the ER doc, nurses were in on this.
"Just another hunting accident" as the report was written up".
The money was paid, and that person, was later "arrested for outstanding warrants" and sent back out of state.
All arranged, still I needed to make my bones.

I used my skill sets for legit and legal, granted some did not think so, and sometimes the areas look really dark gray.

Heck there are those that still I am really a criminal, that was the Perception, I needed for some things.

Another time a UC was afraid he had been made. I was called, and I drove a couple of hours and went to assist this UC.
Cops were afraid for him, still did not want to blow his cover.
So go to this bar, accuse him of messing with my gal and cold cocked him off a bar stool.

Then the bar keep called the Cops, and we both got OC's and tossed in separate squad cars.
I forget if I was the one wanted for armed robbery or for assault and battery and had skipped bail. No matter, these were the "reasons" we both were out of town as "offisers elsewhere were interested in us".

I also chose to spend time in a jail when a serial rapist was caught, and even got a cell next to his.
This was not easy.

Years later, I would use that experience to assist in catching another serial rapist.
I am not a cop, still some skill sets from what I learned from being around criminals, along with other skill sets I was Mentored , have allowed me to do the right things.

It is still not a good idea for me to be seen in some parts of the country, or have some names I have used, spoken in some circles.

Doing the right things, means gaining some real enemies.
Ironic, some criminals would watch my six against some legit persons, going bad.
Ex con watched my back /gave heads up with a husband and wife ( daughter and son-in-law) of a family business , setting up customers to be robbed, and I became involved when they set up a sales rep I knew and he was shot, during an robbery while on the road.

Trust me, you never want to mess with a Postal Inspector.
This couple went to prison, and they were using US Postal Service to mail the stolen mdse.

There are various models of criminals.
My concerns also were of Professional Criminals.
Those that kidnap, as I was a target of being kidnapped since I was born.
Those that by-pass alarms, locks, safes, walk in vaults, and have skill sets such as using a burn bar.

Street Savvy, runs from tailored suits and five star restaurants, to being a street person, and staying warm with trash can fire, using newspaper for blankets, and sleeping in a cardboard box.

You cannot learn some things, except by doing, and being mentored by those that do things.

To thine own self be true...I did.
I could not be bribed, never lost a package, and never crossed over to the other side.
I have been offered up to $1.5 million to cross over to the dark side, with a percentage of future takes , as I know people, places and things.


Still if a opportunity presents itself, consider what can be learned.

[notorious]

Good read!

I never pass up the opportunity to learn from all sides. There are things in the world that only come from certain sources.

[beatcop]

Don't show anyone your house, guns, anything....You're there to work, that's it. Talk about generalities and mind your own business....don't go to a bar with these guys or loan money out.

It's all good until they tell another skid where they can find a gun, money, woman, scripts, etc.

[notorious]

Don't tell anyone anything that you wouldn't want them to turn to use against you. Just think, would I tell this to the guy breaking into my house and intent on killing me? If not, then don't tell your coworkers either.

[cassandrasdaddy]

don't try to bs em. they are pros at that and will catch you eventually

[notorious]

So getting back to the OP topic... why does his job REQUIRE him to carry? I think it's more accurately that he thinks he NEEDS to carry based on his coworkers.

[ljnowell]

carry-forklift. play on words

[notorious]

Not really... the difference is that my job as a policeman REQUIRES me to carry. If I don't carry, I get fired.

For him, he feels the NEED to carry, but if he does carry, he gets fired.

[jahwarrior]

well, it's a moot point, now. i quit today. it's one thing to have to work around a bunch of violent ex-felons, it's another thing to be talked to like i'm one of them.

despite my reservations about working there, i understand, like many have you have stated, that not all cons are bad people. my last boss is an ex-felon, and we got along great, on and off the clock. he was a hard working man, and a decent man, despite his past mistakes. i also understand that the job market for guys with a record is pretty narrow, and that they get a lot of crap from people, and have to take it, if they want to stay out of prison.

i, however, do not.

as long as i've been able to work, i've never been talked to, or treated, with such disrespect by so-called professionals. as much as i hate my kids' dog, i would never treat him the way they treat people in that place. the only other job i've ever had where people were treated like such garbage was when i was a 17 year old cashier for D'Agostino's Supermarkets, in the Bronx.

it's a surreal experience, finding myself having sympathy for a group of people i normally wouldn't give the time of day.

in any case, i'm done there.

[notorious]

Sorry to hear about the incompatibility situation. Oh well, at least you got out alive.

[cassandrasdaddy]

and it seems you have a rare gift of being able/willing to look outside yourself at how things affect others. might wanna avoid construction jobs and some kitchens. they can be real bad too

[jorb]

Glad you got out of there. Still don't know why that job "required" you to carry.