[CMT6Shtr]

First off, I just wanted to say this is a great forum. Thank you to all the contributors as I have learned a lot in just searching and reading.

I have put just over 1000 rounds through my .38 special GP100 (first handgun) and I always seem to be just to the right of the target center. After getting a pack of snap caps and really looking at my pull in the mirror and watching the barrel sight closely I found that my trigger pull is not as smooth as it should be.

I am using the lower part of the pad of my trigger finger (I am right handed). Today I really wanted to go slow and put in some good practice. Making sure the web of my hand is as high up on the grip and tight as possible, my wrists were locked, and in a good stance. I started dry firing till the barrel was just moving slightly up rather than to the right. It felt good (smooth), but my forearm was tight and with some discomfort after about 25-30 pulls.

What if any "exercises" besides dry firing will help build up the proper muscles in my hand/forearm to help me stay smooth and straight?

[dispatch]

See if this works for you----http://home.earthlink.net/~potomac008/Pistol%20Wheel.htm

[CMT6Shtr]

Thank you!!!

:)

[krs]

That page is good on technique and this one can help your physical stamina: http://www.bullseyepistol.com/stamina.htm

[BCRider]

As a fellow newbie I'd like to share in how much I found that the trigger finger position on the trigger and how you pull it back makes a difference. In my case most of my issue is that I tend to push the trigger to the left while you seem to be pulling it to the right. I found that where the trigger sits on my fingertip makes a big difference.

Like you I'm also finding that the arm and upper body stance makes a big difference. I like to have some tension in my arms with a push from my strong hand being balanced with a pull on the support hand but not so much that I feel any sign of strain like you're getting.

There's a vid on Youtube by Jerry Miculek (i think it was) on revolver stance where he talks about rolling the elbows out a bit to better place and support the pistol be it a revolver or an autoloader. I found that helped me as well. Now the catch is to "do the zen mantra" each time that I bring up the gun onto the target. It's not easy to remember ALL the stuff. But it seems that like you I just need to stop worrying about shooting as much and worry about placing the gun on target with the correct form first and foremost and to do it with 100% consistency. It's taken me a couple of thousand rounds to get rid of the flinch that occasionally showed up and now, for me at least, it's time to work on the correct and consistent whole body positioning to make it automatic in all respects. I may be reading too much of my own situation into your thread but it seems like you're in the same boat as me.

[sm]

Great points already shared, to which I will add -

Set a dime atop the barrel near front site when doing dry fire practice. In double action only, "shoot a cylinder" without the dime falling off.

This assists in getting the correct basic fundamentals instilled of trigger and sight use.
First get the basics instilled, correctly, going slow and getting more proficient and faster will come.

Hence the reason I suggest folks learn on a .22 revolver, transition to .38spl with mild loads, and using this "dime on the barrel" dry fire suggestion.

These correct basics will transition to a semi-auto platform.

That is why after I do the revolvers in both .22 rim fire, then dedicated .38spl, I use .22 semi auto pistols, and then transition to a 9mm semi auto.
It is best if one uses a revolver in .22 same/similar platforms/makes best can and semi's the same /similar platforms/makes if best can.
Applies to rifles too.

Many a person that started shooting a semi, and had problems, never instilled the correct basic fundamentals.

So if we "unlearn" them, and go back to revolvers in .22 rim fire, and dedicated .38spl, with mild loads and dry fire practice, including the dime, they in fact shoot their semi auto centerfire better.

Always best to build upon a good foundation.

*smile*

[BCRider]

Set a dime atop the barrel near front site when doing dry fire practice. In double action only, "shoot a cylinder" without the dime falling off.


That sounds like the firearm equivalent to the old Kung Fu show scene of "when you can snatch the pebble from my hand Grasshopper...." :D

But I have to admit that if I can do that in DA then I'd be pretty darned happy with my efforts.

Er.... you DID mean set it flat and not on edge right? Flat would be OK but I doubt I could even balance it on edge at all let alone during a trigger pull.

[MrBorland]

I'm a big believer in the power of dry fire practice, and tried a number of "tricks" including the chart above and the ol' coin-on-the-barrel. IMO, during dry (and live fire), you're best off by dry firing while simply looking at the front sight. Really looking at the front sight.

Paul Weston, the famous revolver shooter and pistol instructor, was adamant that one has to look at the front sight. Really look at the front sight. Ask yourself - are you looking at it while pulling the trigger. Really looking at it? At the moment the trigger breaks? Keep asking. Keep dry firing.

In the end, it's the fundamentals that apply - sight picture, and pulling the trigger without disturbing the sight picture. Getting a good shot off isn't guaranteed if you can simply keep a coin balanced on the barrel. That's a pretty low bar. It's not guaranteed if you satisfy "the chart", either. It IS guaranteed if you apply the fundamentals. Just watch your front sight during dry fire. Really watch your front sight. It's a matter of faith, grasshopper.

[HowardCohodas]

I'm a big believer in the power of dry fire practice

Two suggestions...

My favorite internet training sight is hosted Todd Green. http://Pistol-Training.com/. Lots of great drills there.

The best, and most economical method of developing and maintaining effective trigger discipline that I have found is to add a laser sight. The red dot movement amplified by the 8 to 12ft distances available in my home is great biofeedback. It doesn't take much dry firing to cover the cost of the laser compared to ammo and range fees. My favorite in the Crimson Trace product line. I have a Crimson Trace laser on both my primary carry EDC (M&P 45fs) and my EDC BUG (LCP). Like many muscle and hand eye coordination skills, proficiency diminishes quickly. Therefore, continuous training is required to maintain your proficiency.

[MrBorland]

My favorite internet training sight is hosted Todd Green. http://Pistol-Training.com/. Lots of great drills there.

Neat sight, but IMO, too advanced for someone trying to develop a fundamentally sound DA trigger pull.

The best, and most economical method of developing and maintaining effective trigger discipline that I have found is to add a laser sight.

I think laser sights have their place, and the OP ought to try them if he/she is interested. In my opinion, though, they're best kept for specialty applications, rather than someone trying to develop their fundamentals.

I'll repeat - the fundamentals include focusing on the front sight and pulling the trigger without disturbing the sight picture. Watch the front sight. A laser, IMO, tempts a new shooter to focus on the target, not the front sight. A bad habit to develop.

Maybe I sound like a grumpy old intransient shooter. 'Taint so. I found out for myself what works, what doesn't, and what's a gimmick. The fundamentals work. Gimmicks delay improvement. JMHO.

[MrBorland]

My favorite internet training sight is hosted Todd Green. http://Pistol-Training.com/. Lots of great drills there.

Neat sight, but IMO, too advanced for someone trying to develop a fundamentally sound DA trigger pull.

The best, and most economical method of developing and maintaining effective trigger discipline that I have found is to add a laser sight.

I think laser sights have their place, and the OP ought to try them if he/she is interested. In my opinion, though, they're best kept for specialty applications, rather than someone trying to develop their fundamentals.

I'll repeat - the fundamentals include focusing on the front sight and pulling the trigger without disturbing the sight picture. Watch the front sight. A laser, IMO, tempts a new shooter to focus on the target, not the front sight. A bad habit to develop.

Maybe I sound like a grumpy old intransient shooter. 'Taint so. I found out for myself what works, what doesn't, and what's a gimmick. The fundamentals work. Gimmicks delay improvement. JMHO.

[MrBorland]

My favorite internet training sight is hosted Todd Green. http://Pistol-Training.com/. Lots of great drills there.

Neat sight, but IMO, too advanced for someone trying to develop a fundamentally sound DA trigger pull.

The best, and most economical method of developing and maintaining effective trigger discipline that I have found is to add a laser sight.

I think laser sights have their place, and the OP ought to try them if he/she is interested. In my opinion, though, they're best kept for specialty applications, rather than someone trying to develop their fundamentals.

I'll repeat - the fundamentals include focusing on the front sight and pulling the trigger without disturbing the sight picture. Watch the front sight. A laser, IMO, tempts a new shooter to focus on the target, not the front sight. A bad habit to develop.

Maybe I sound like a grumpy old intransient shooter. 'Taint so. I found out for myself what works, what doesn't, and what's a gimmick. The fundamentals work. Gimmicks delay improvement. JMHO.

[MrBorland]

My favorite internet training sight is hosted Todd Green. http://Pistol-Training.com/. Lots of great drills there.

Neat sight, but IMO, too advanced for someone trying to develop a fundamentally sound DA trigger pull.

The best, and most economical method of developing and maintaining effective trigger discipline that I have found is to add a laser sight.

I think laser sights have their place, and the OP ought to try them if he/she is interested. In my opinion, though, they're best kept for specialty applications, rather than someone trying to develop their fundamentals.

I'll repeat - the fundamentals include focusing on the front sight and pulling the trigger without disturbing the sight picture. Watch the front sight. A laser, IMO, tempts a new shooter to focus on the target, not the front sight. A bad habit to develop.

Maybe I sound like a grumpy old intransient shooter. 'Taint so. I found out for myself what works, what doesn't, and what's a gimmick. The fundamentals work. Gimmicks delay improvement. JMHO.

[sm]

Yes, I agree, one should focus on the front sight.

Here is the deal with me, and mine for clarification.
We did a LOT with single ladies, single moms, kids, elderly and physically limited.

I mean if you are guy, you have testosterone, and by default this means you are already John Wayne, Mario Andretti and Cassanova. *smile*

There were no gun schools back when I was coming up, unless one went into the Military, or entered the Police Academy.

So my role if you will, and that of some others, were assisting the aforementioned folks because my Mentors did this.

Sure, we had males, that wanted "it" and had a willingness to learn, and many grew up with a dad, or male relative that passed forward. Others that did not have a male role model came to us, or we invited them.

Some of these aforementioned folks were battered ladies, rape victims, sexually assaulted, abused, and kids included incest victims and abused kids.
Physically Limited and Elderly may have been victims, or were afraid being so, being more a easy prey.

You get a single mom that has been shot, knifed, and raped, and her kid was tossed across the room after being burned with cigarettes, and gets a cracked skull and busted leg...
You have a different type of student that "wants it".

One thing I learned early, assisting Mentors, is some ladies do not want a lady to assist them.
For one, they are ashamed, and feel dirty.
Another is, they do not want to hear one more cliche or adage or religious belief "anything".

Now Mentors & Elders included both men and women, and the flip side happens when a male gets victimized too, especially if a female shot them while in bed, or stabbed then while they were taking a nap.
They want a lady to assist them.

This all sounds odd, still this has been my experience and observation, and I was born in the mid 50s.

So some of us males have "earned" being able to assist a lady, and some ladies have "earned" being able to assist a male.
In the old days we did not worry about all the PC stuff, or getting sued, still we had a member of same sex as student to assist.
Just out of respect and courtesy.

The coin on the barrel assists while they focus on front sight.
Each student is different.

The lady I mentioned earlier, had cuts on her hands and some fingernails damaged to where they had to be pulled, and allowed to grow back.

Physical Therapy for her to dry fire. Heck at first it was just being able to hold a gun, and dry fire it - period.
She had other PT, still she was physically limited.

Many new shooters do not have the hand / wrist strength and stamina and they have obtain this.

Take a lady as I am speaking of, and she is starting out at lower level than most new shooters.

Or the person that lost part of a finger or some other serious matter in fighting to survive a living hell.

Not everyone is male, and between the ages of 21 and 30 and full of piss and vinegar.

Mentors & Elders did what they did, and passed onto me and others like me, so that is where I and mine chose to assist those that most never give one iota of thought to.

I grew up into a Hi-Risk life thing and the real deal folks used Gold Bead front sights for serious carry guns.
Bone stock guns, except for that gold bead.
WE still prefer this gold bead.

Now we get a new person, such as I have described, and they have detached retina , or have undergone back, neck, shoulder or other surgeries that the Doctor, Surgeon and Physical Therapist, have NO RECOIL orders.

I am not going to have a person lose eyesight, or become paralyzed or anything else.
I earned being where I am with such folks and they know, I will keep their safety as a top priority.

So I break it down to the most simple for the person that wants "it".

Some years ago we had some gals that had never touched a gun until a few years before and then one day they were Dieity's gift to woman and shooting.

I still think I should have taken a hickory axe handle to one of these 'Instructors" , my Moral Code says I would have been within my right to do so.
Oh this gal knew the English Language, and could write, edit and talk down to you, and you would not realize it, I mean she had been "published" and all.
One of my kind, a lady damn near lost a eye , with this lady instructor and her lessons.
She told her so many times she had a detached retina...No Recoil and the lady instructor...
She also was the reason for a follow up surgery for wrist and shoulder for another lady.
Again she was Deity's gift to woman and shooting.

The front sight is focused on.
Many a gun we gave to such persons aforementioned we had a Gold Bead added.
This assists with that focus.

Now we may start out really basic to some folks, still we do so for a reason.
It may be just being able to pull the trigger, period.
Shoot one dry fire time and not have that coin fall off.

We might have primer only cases, as noise adds another dimension.
Speer Plastic Training Bullets from a dedicated .38spl adds noise, and a "bullet" hitting that target.
This can be done in a ventilated indoor setting, such as warehouse, barn or other setting.
This allows lessons for those having trouble getting out, or when the weather is bad.

Serious lessons , focused on front sight, and we have fun.

You take a single lady, single mom, kid, elderly, or physically limited person that have been through things one should never have to go through, and one will learn more from them, that they will from you assisting them.

Oh they focus on the front sight, and these folks have smooth trigger pulls.
They earned, they wanted it, and they did it.

Some fun along the way, and these folks all share a common bond.

One thing I did with a kid, who with his mom had been through a bad deal was let her pull the fishing line.
She was not sure about "guys" after that tragic event, still if mom and others said I was "okay" then she sorta let herself accept me in her life.

We were shooting Speer Plastic Training bullets at Tin cans indoors.
She was more into the hot chocolate and marshmellows, which was fine.
She got kick with the tin cans being knocked over and after a bit wanted to help me set this back up.

I had a "secret" and said I was going to tie some fishing line to a can and yank the tin can to see how folks reacted .
See I was raised to not be a "programmed shooter" and I wanted to see how folks did if I moved a target, or knocked one down.

Oh my.
She liked this.
Her mom was just about ready to trip trigger and moved the can and her mom kept focused on the front sight, with tin can and hit it.

Others wanted to try this and this little lady was my "helper".
Bless her heart , this was a big step for her.

My turn to shoot and I could not hit a tin can one.
It seems it was funny to yank all the cans down and behind the hay bails .
It became a bit emotional after she that with everyone.

Later with a water pistol, which we used for training gun, this little lady was explaining to me , I should focus on front sight and press.

I mean she insisted sitting on lap, me holding the water pistol, and pointing at the front sight and watching my trigger finger to make sure it was off trigger and...

She had been paying attention to safety and everything else.
She grew up, and it has been years ...
One of her concealed carry guns is a 9x23 in 1911 platform with a gold bead front sight.

She is also scary with a J frame snub nose revolver, and she has a few with gold on the front sight.

So yes, the goal is "front sight, press", just sometimes it takes what it takes to reach that goal.


There are ways, not "the" way. - Mentors.

[sm]

gremlins in the server

[sm]

gremlins in the server

[sm]

gremlins in the server

[sm]

gremlins in the server

[sm]

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[sm]

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[sm]

gremlins in the server.

[trickshot]

Please explain all the reasons why a gold bead front sight is important.

[Deanimator]

Please explain all the reasons why a gold bead front sight is important.
I'm not sure it's "important", but it's certainly useful to some people. For some people it's easier to pick up visually. Other people use white or silver beads for the same reason.

[techmike]

Please explain all the reasons why a gold bead front sight is important.

I prefer a "big dot" nite sight up front, but if I were a generation older I suspect I would prefer a gold bead. Either one helps me focus on the front sight. On occasion I will spot a pistol with with a gold bead for sale at a gun show and I always think to myself..."I bet that belonged to a savvy old gunner."

[stalkingbear]

I would by all means suggest installing a Wolff reduced pull weight spring kit. They are inexpensive and your firearm will still be TOTALLY 100% reliable. For less than 20$ you can instantly reduce double action trigger pull weight by at least 30% by ordering/installing the kit which offers options of how much weight by including multiple springs with different compression strengths.

[techmike]

I would by all means suggest installing a Wolff reduced pull weight spring kit. They are inexpensive and your firearm will still be TOTALLY 100% reliable. For less than 20$ you can instantly reduce double action trigger pull weight by at least 30% by ordering/installing the kit which offers options of how much weight by including multiple springs with different compression strengths.

I just did this with my 642. Made a nice change in the weight of the trigger pull...it was already smooth from lots of dry firing. Be warned...the rebound slide and spring can be a booger to reinstall. Brownell's has a tool for it that makes it a little easier.

[10 Spot Terminator]

I agree with stalkingbear about a lighter hammer and return spring kit for revolver shooters and I would go on to add a good set of grips. This was the ultimate saving grace for me on a S&W model 66. No 2 persons hand will fit a certain grip the same and for me a set of Safariland grips with a right handed palm swell helped reduce trigger torque immensely. As for the hammer and return spring the same applies for handguns as well as rifle shooting for accuracy. The less you have to pull on the trigger the less you will be pulling off target. My model 66 is deemed to be a combat magnum meaning the triggers are set up with a heavy trigger pull to counter act the adreneline which will arise in a combat situation and to reduce the risk of having the gun go off prematurely. Only those who have been in a gunfight or combat can relate here. In a tough situation I am betting most of us will still tend to yank rather than squeeze that trigger ,,,,:rolleyes:

[AdamSean]

Disassemble that puppy, polish the internal parts and replace the springs with either Wolff or Wilson Combat reduced power springs. You will be pleasantly surprised.