[wyocarp]

The latest "research" by the fish and wildlife might get us hunting wolves again.


Idaho Fish and Game biologists have established that wolves are the primary cause of death of radio-collared cow elk in the Lolo hunting zone, where cow elk numbers are projected to be shrinking by 13 percent a year.


http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2008/12/07/features/outdoors/24-study.txt

[BP44]

Thats good news, I am glad they are finally looking at the FACTS of what there "reintorduction" is doing:fire:

[Loomis]

13% a year is alot!

I think they'd better do more than kill a few wolves. I'd say this is going to also require them to reduce the hunting tags on elk in the short term. Or at least the ones for females.

[deaconkharma]

and they eat the sick and why oh why would you ever think they present any danger to slower easier prey like humans? :neener:
There now that we got that out of the way.. I feel better
a season to control predator populations... a novel idea.

[rich636]

Humans trying to restabilize a predator / prey relationship destabilzed by loss of home range for both is a tall task. The pendulum will probably swing in both directions a few times before it reaches some natural balance. The answer is usually in the middle of the two extremes, being the "wolf huggers" and the "shoot anything remotely threatening crowd".

[748]

I dont know about hunting them. Trapping and poisoning is how they took care of the wolf problem first time around.

[7.62X25mm]

It's about habitat. You want to "fix" the problem start shooting humans. :neener:

[Treo]

So what's the legal question here?

[wyocarp]

Treo, the whole issue is a legal one. Without the legal side of things, we would be shooting wolves in Wyoming right now. But because of some do-good people who don't care about the people who actually live and recreate in the areas surrounding where the wolves are living, we have this legal battle over the issue of how many wolves we need and how to control them now that their habitat is smaller than it was before and with many more people crowding in all over.

This isn't an issue for you, living in Colorado. Not yet anyways. You are having an explosion of coyote though. Which isn't nearly an issue.

[Treo]

There actually have been some wolves ( Mexican Greys) re-introduced into Colorado. Same issues on a somewhat smaller scale.

I'm all for managing the population but as some have said the answer is in the middle.

[cassandrasdaddy]

how are the wolves impacting the yote populations?

[cassandrasdaddy]

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/jul/22/local/me-25176


http://prizedwriting.ucdavis.edu/past/2004-2005/groen.htm

[LaEscopeta]

Humans trying to restabilize a predator / prey relationship destabilzed by loss of home range for both is a tall task. The pendulum will probably swing in both directions a few times before it reaches some natural balance. The answer is usually in the middle of the two extremes, being the "wolf huggers" and the "shoot anything remotely threatening crowd".+1.

In general predator and prey populations run in cycles. A large prey population leads to good eating for the predators, whose numbers increase, leading to overhunting until the prey population drops and eating ain’t so good any more for the predators so their numbers drop, allowing the prey population to bounce back. It is generally not possible for the predators to wipe out their prey. How do we know this? If it was possible there would be no more predators or prey. Wolves have been hunting elk in North America for a lot longer than man, and they have managed to keep the balance. Man, on the other hand… (passenger pigeons, dodo birds, tasmanian wolves, etc.)

[Art Eatman]

I'll leave this here and open, if folks will address the legal structure of the World Of Wolves, and the specirfic problems.

Otherwise, so far it's mostly off-topic.

[7.62X25mm]

I have colleagues who work with federal fish / wildlife, in "endangered species." Typically, and here's an example, the Fed. Govt. tries to pin the blame on some sort of wildlife population / predator issue rather than addressing the issue of diminishing habitat.

A prime example is Arctic Terns on the mouth of the Columbia River eating salmon smolts. The Terns are NOT the reason for the decline in salmon runs. The reason is the hydro-electric dams on the river. Any biologist will explain that to you.

Decline in elk population is not about wolf predation. It's about diminished habitat -- which comes from human encroachment.

Hunting the predators further encroaches on the habitat. It's a more complex issue than is going to be addressed with posts in a forum like this.

[ArmedBear]

Decline in elk population is not about wolf predation. It's about diminished habitat -- which comes from human encroachment.

Hunting the predators further encroaches on the habitat.

This isn't true. It might be true in some cases, but it's not true in Idaho, where half the state and most of the elk habitat is public land.

The fact is, there was one variable that was altered, and that was the wolf population (which BTW extirpated the actual local wolf population).

Furthermore, many things have an impact on habitat. Cyclical changes do, also. A few hundred years ago, England was a wine-growing region, for example.

Hydroelectric dams or not, if you want more salmon, then reducing predation will help you get them. It's not the terns' "fault". But tern predation does reduce the salmon population.

If you're suggesting that predator density is not an important variable in local prey population levels, and you know about biology, then you're lying.

It's a more complex issue

This is true.

[MT GUNNY]

#9
Wyocarp Quote;
we would be shooting wolves in Wyoming right now. But because of some do-good people who don't care about the people who actually live and recreate in the areas surrounding where the wolves are living,

Although I do agree with you on the Do gooder Part, and the Idiot Judge who agreed with the do gooders. And No Disrespect to You personally! But Ultimately it was WY's approach to the Conservation of the wolves that gave the DO Gooders Fuel to get them back on the Engaged List. As we speak MT is putting Forth an Effort to Give Our Fish and Game the Ultimate Authority on Conservation for the Wolves.

[MT GUNNY]

ArmedBear;

Are you saying that the explosion Wolf Population is due to "Cyclical changes" ?

The Endangered Species list Brought them Back. I recently ran into a Wolf Pack of 10, in my Favorite Elk hunting area. After that day I didn't see 1 Cow Elk or Bull in that area. I know they didn't eat them all, but they shure ran them out. The Number of packs throughout MT WY ID are Greater than ever Before and Higher than Originally thought Buy Hundreds.

Hunting Season Here in MT was the Worst in Harvest in 2008, Bear was the Only thing that was above yearly average.

[MT GUNNY]

Quote; from 7.62X25mm
Decline in elk population is not about wolf predation. It's about diminished habitat -- which comes from human encroachment.
Hunting the predators further encroaches on the habitat. It's a more complex issue than is going to be addressed with posts in a forum like this


Absolutely Not. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation has Increased the Size of herds and there Roaming area throughout the States. http://www.rmef.org/AllAboutElk/ElkFaring/

Hunting predators is not encroachment on habitat, Housing Development is.
Hunting is why most places are not overwhelmed by Bears and such, like New Jersey. Conservation is Key, and a must.

[caribou]

LOL!!

Hunt them, hell, I do. We aint missing out on Caribou here either...LOL!

http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/index.cfm?adfg=game.wah

Above heres a "Coller" program, and it rather well known that Caribou that have ben collerd have 1/2 the life span that Non-collard Caribou. FnG has no explanation, but its true.
Maby the extra weight slows them down, or wears off much needed calories, or what ever, it documented that Collard animals dont live as long as the others, and being eaten by a Wolf is the last phase of a Caribou 's life.

Only People die in bed.

But , then again, This is Alaska, not "There" and these are my personal obserrvations.

Hey MTGunny!
My Dads a Mountain Brook guy, lake Blain and Swan Junction.... and I lived there for high school....."Flathead Class of 87" :)
Hunted there alot as well, your in some comparable country.

[22lr]

Wolfs, let Alaska and the west keep em.

[IdahoLT1]

wyocarp, with all due respect, the State of Wyoming kinda ruined the whole de listing issue a few months back for Montana and Idaho. Montana and Idaho actaully had mamagement plans, whereas Wyoming had more of a "see it, shoot it on site" mentallity once they were originally delisted. IMO, we cant have that attitude, otherwise the wolves will always remain protected. We have to kinda find a good middle ground on the issue.

Idaho had a wolf population before they were re-introduced in the 90's. Ive known families who had property near stanley and over in Latah county where they had seen wolf tracks. Pencil pushers in DC would tell you otherwise but these were the natural/native grey wolves and the Canadian grey wolves drove them out and/or killed them off.

Idaho F&G has stated that Idaho's habitat could sustain roughly 200 wolves. Thats our own state officials with their numbers and figures and not figures from the Defenders of Wildlife members living in California. Im fine with some wolves being here, but we have well over 800 right now in our state, which is way too many. We have been lucky with some good snow seasons, which prevent drought. But if we get a bad season and ungulate numbers plummit(which happens cyclically) ranchers and farmers will see the worst of this. Hopefully no humans will become targeted if this happens.

[MT GUNNY]

+1 Idaho LT1

Have you heard about the wolf attack that was kept Hush Hush just over the Boarder in Canada. Ive tried to find Info on it, But some people don't want It Known.

Posted on diferent Thread here at THR
Quote;
Quote:
I'm all for reintroducing wolves and thus restoring our full indigenous species spectrum to the North American eco-system, PROVIDED THAT there are reasonable laws allowing culling by humans; i.e. (1) that a rancher or other person can shoot them without being charged with anything, if they are attacking livestock or people, (2) that each state's wildlife department has the right to regulate their numbers as they see fit, by establishing hunting criterion: season dates, numbers killed, etc.

I agree to this also.

[IdahoLT1]

Youre talking about the Kenton Joel Carnegie case where 2 of his friends friends encountered wolves that acted agressivley 4 days before Kenton was found dead outside their camp, killed and mostly consumed by wolves. Other people in the area had also encountered wolves that werent afraid of humans and acted agressivley. These wolves were completely healthy and had no signs of rabies after they were shot after the incidents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenton_Joel_Carnegie

In India, in the last 28 years over 160 people(most children younger than 13-14) had been killed by wolves. There were times in the eastern part of rusiia, between 1870-1887 over 14400 people were reported to have been killed by wolves. In India, under British colonization, in 1878 over 620 people were killed by wolves.

Source for the Russian attacks is found in the book "Wolves in Russia: Anxiety throughout the ages" by Will Graves, p.222

The source for the attacks in India is http://www.hinduonnet.com/2001/05/08/stories/1308017f.htm

[Ankeny]

But Ultimately it was WY's approach to the Conservation of the wolves that gave the DO Gooders Fuel to get them back on the Engaged List. Yup, and for the life of me I don't understand how that seems to be a secret.

[cassandrasdaddy]

"Have you heard about the wolf attack that was kept Hush Hush just over the Boarder in Canada. Ive tried to find Info on it, But some people don't want It Known."


its been to court twice his parents have a website and i found multiple stories using google whats your definition of hush hush?

[Sagetown]

quote LaEscopeta:

In general predator and prey populations run in cycles. A large prey population leads to good eating for the predators, whose numbers increase, leading to overhunting until the prey population drops

As I read your post to this point my mind said - - and then the predators (wolves here) turn to livestock (if any in their territory), then pets and humans. I would think their survial instincts would overwhelm their desire to perish because of lack of natures food chain. JMO

[waffentomas]

There was serious predation going on in an area I hunt in Idaho because Canadian Gray's were there instead of the smaller Timberwolves. I had a run-in with the pack in 2007. Idaho FG killed the mating pair.

Elk were thriving again last Oct.

Glad to see they were on top of it.

[IdahoLT1]

if you think wolves dont kill for fun, look at these pictures. I wont post them in this thread because they are gruesome(albeit part of nature) but heres the link. http://rliv.com/pic/Orogrande%20slaughter%202008.pdf

18 dead elk were discovered in an 11 day period. The area is part of a territory occupied by a pack of ~6 wolves. Some of the elk only had bite marks on them but succumbed to their death from the wound or the elements.

[caribou]

European and Asian Wolves are different species and behave differently.Thats a well known fact.

Actually, the Wolves of Europe are well noted for their agressivness, hence the Fairy tales and BS that followed the europeans who migrated over from those places .:rolleyes:

Wolf tracks and thoes of Ferral Dogs are exactly the same in apperance.
Many city folks have no idea what a Wolf is supossed to look like and confronting an aggressive wild ferral dog, gets the "Wolf!! Cry.
Here in the land of ice, snow, dogs and wolves, Ferral dogs attacking people is such a problem, that Eskimos in general shoot all loose dogs, eveb in town. The last wolf attack here was in 1938 and Punekok Sampson died or the Rabies tha Wolf gave him.
I once laughed my ass off at the airport in Kotzebue when a lower 48 "Hunter" was showing off his Wolf hide, and I showed him by looking at its hair tips that he had a Husky!!! No wonder it walked into his camp:rolleyes:
Nothing like an FnG Trooper to get in on the laughter, but it sure wasnt illegal, just not a Wolf.

If you dont interact, talking Wolf is like talking Shooting. You have to make the shot, not read about it.

Seems theres alot of Fairytales being told here as well.:scrutiny:

Now if 160 people from Indiana were being killed, then I would giove creid here.
Inda is a prime examlpe of habitat loss, and human pressure.

If wolves are attacking livestock, I support all and any methods of stopping that, just like cattle rustler should be shot as well.
I know that livestock are $$$$ and people will say and do anything they can to stop the $$$ from being lost.
I support Wolf Hunting. I dont support BS.
Now my question;
who here is any sorta biologist?
How many here, HONESTLY, have seen, hunted, or interacted in any natural way with a Wolf, other than myself.:confused:

Got Pictures? I do, as well as 25 years of folowing and hunting Wolves. I have first hand seen their hunting and eating habits, and its no "Slaughter", it just compatition with us humans.
we just need more here than third hand dribble from various speculative newspaper accounts, and some seriously exagerated examlpes, being bent to fit this argument.???

The internet, where everyone is an expert ....who'da thought?

:D What a Thread!!!!:barf:

[Art Eatman]

caribou, I guess a summary comment might be that when any predator is a threat to a person's livlihood, it's a tad different from when a livlihood is not threatened.

So, ranchers would naturally have a different point of view than folks who don't have to cope with predators in the course of earning enough money to pay the school-tax man. Never forget that the school-tax man doesn't care if a rancher eats or makes a profit. He wants the ad valorem taxes on the rancher's house and land--"or else", which "else" means a sheriff's sale.

I sold out of the cow business about five years back. At the time, just plain old Herefords brought about $800 for a cow and about $400 for a calf at the livestock auction. You wouldn't have to lose very many of them to feel just really irate. Poorer, too.

[DarkCharisma]

Rumor has it wolf hunting will open back up here in Utah soon.

[Sagetown]

How many here, HONESTLY, have seen, hunted, or interacted in any natural way with a Wolf


Hey caribou: I can honestly say that I haven't. ;)

But I would think that any alaskan wolf :cool: pulled out of his invironment of freedom, and placed in the lower 48 states that are seperated by private owned lands with crossfences, cattle herds, sheep and goat herds, would find it difficult to stay out of trouble. :evil: And that seems to be where the rubber meets the road.

[d2wing]

I am of the kill them all school.

[Big Bill]

Me too d2! Our ancestors had a good reason for killing them all.

[indoorsoccerfrea]

all of wildlife has its place. obviously we cant have overpopulation/trouble animals, so i say let them be unless they are eating livestock or actually disturbing the peace. other than that, lets not ruin nature.

[Big Bill]

so i say let them be unless they are eating livestock or actually disturbing the peace. other than that, lets not ruin nature.By this statement, I would judge that you are anti hunting?

[indoorsoccerfrea]

oops, good catch bill. i am not anti-hunting, i mispoke. i was talking to the people who are of the "lets kill them all" crowd. i have no problem with hunting, and if wolves were put back on the ok-to-hunt list i would be out there hunting 'em. i do however think it irresponsible to want to wipe them off the planet. they have a place here, as do we.

[Big Bill]

If you lived in a state with wolves and saw the way they decimate the elk and deer herds, perhaps you'd think differently.

[indoorsoccerfrea]

very true, if i lived somewhere like that maybe i would have a different opinion. however nature will be nature, and if its not the wolves, its something else. i completely respect your opinion. i do farm, cattle, corn, and hay, so i can see where someone would be ticked off if their produce gets ravaged, but both deer and wolves are a part of nature. more deer = more wolves,and eventually it will be less deer = less wolves

[cassandrasdaddy]

funny how there are still elk in yellowstone after all that "decimation"

[Ankeny]

How many here, HONESTLY, have seen, hunted, or interacted in any natural way with a Wolf I have.

[wyocarp]

But Ultimately it was WY's approach to the Conservation of the wolves that gave the DO Gooders Fuel to get them back on the Engaged List.

Yup, and for the life of me I don't understand how that seems to be a secret.

Well, really that isn't a very fair view but actually shows the lack of knowledge about the state and where the wolves are. Yes, they could have been shot on sight in most of the state, but most of the state isn't where the wolves are for the most part. There were a few wolves shot on the border where they were protected, by ranchers that had been having problems with the wolves. The shootings had already nearly slowed to a stop when the ruling was changed.

They were completely protected in the areas where they mostly living. The problem is that the sheer numbers of them are pushing them further out that what is needed for them to remain viable. It wasn't stopped because of Wyoming's plan. That's a smokescreen. These groups didn't want them delisted even if none of them were shot. I don't understand why anyone would want such a killing machine to keep increasing in multiplying numbers as they are except that they really don't care at all about the other animal populations and haven't seen the carnage.

[wyocarp]

Caribou, while what you say might be true for Alaska, it doesn't apply in the lower 48. I can't show you pictures because that would be illegal. I would expect those who live in Alaska to make the appropriate decissions for Alaska. At the same time, I don't think that people that don't live in these states should have any say in how we regulate our wildlife.

[cassandrasdaddy]

I can't show you pictures because that would be illegal.


???

[IdahoLT1]

funny how there are still elk in yellowstone after all that "decimation"

Yellowstone Elk numbers have dropped 50% since the wolves were introduced in the mid 90's. They went from "16,791 in winter 1995 to 8,335 in winter 2004." The article also says a single wolf kills ~22ungulates a years, 95% of their kills recorded have been elk." http://www.yellowstonepark.com/MoreT...aspx?newsid=10


Thats a big drop in the population.

[cassandrasdaddy]

http://www.nps.gov/yell/parknews/08010.htm

2007-08 Winter Count of Northern Yellowstone Elk





Subscribe RSS Icon | What is RSS
Date: February 26, 2008
Contact: PJ White, NPS, 307-344-2442
Contact: Tom Lemke, MT FW&P, 406-222-0102
Contact: Dan Tyers, USFS, 406-848-7375

February 25, 2008

News Release from the
Northern Yellowstone Cooperative Wildlife Working Group

Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife, & Parks (contact: Tom Lemke, 406/222-0102)
National Park Service (contact: P.J. White, 307/344-2442)
U.S. Forest Service (contact: Dan Tyers, 406/848-7375)
U.S. Geological Survey (contact: Paul Cross, 406/994-6908)

2007-08 WINTER COUNT OF NORTHERN YELLOWSTONE ELK

The Northern Yellowstone Cooperative Wildlife Working Group conducted its annual winter survey of the northern Yellowstone elk population on February 14, 2008. A total of 6,279 elk were counted during good survey conditions. Approximately one-third of the observed elk were located within Yellowstone National Park, and two-thirds were located north of the park boundary. Biologists used four fixed-wing aircraft to count elk through the entire northern range during the one-day survey. The northern Yellowstone elk herd winters between the northeast entrance of Yellowstone National Park and Dome Mountain/Dailey Lake in the Paradise Valley.

This year’s count of 6,279 elk was similar to the counts of 6,588 elk in winter 2006 and 6,738 elk in winter 2007, but substantially lower than the 9,545 elk counted in winter 2005. “This decrease in counted elk likely reflects the continuing effects of predation by wolves and other large carnivores and, possibly, some effects from the severe, long-term drought on maternal condition and recruitment,” according to P.J. White, biologist for Yellowstone National Park.

“It also appears that elk distribution has changed in recent years with elk numbers north of Yellowstone Park leveling off at between 3,200-4,000 elk, while elk numbers wintering inside the park appear to be decreasing,” according to Tom Lemke, biologist for Montana Fish, Wildlife, and Parks. As a result, in recent years over 50% of the counted population has wintered north of Yellowstone National Park. Winter range north of the park occurs at lower elevation and tends to have better forage availability, less snow, and milder environmental conditions. Another possible factor influencing winter elk distribution is wolf distribution. Winter wolf densities are considerably lower on winter ranges north of the park compared to winter ranges inside the park. “Elk may be using several factors, including the presence of wolves, in selecting where they spend the critical winter months. If current trends continue, then the long-term importance of elk habitat north of the park will only increase,” Lemke added.

The State Elk Plan calls for a winter population objective of 3,000-5,000 elk north of Yellowstone with 2,000-3,000 of those animals wintering on or near the state-owned Dome Mountain Wildlife Management Area. In the last six years, an estimated total of 3,200-4,000 elk have wintered north of Yellowstone National Park with 2,100-3,000 elk wintering on or near the Dome Mountain Wildlife Management Area. By the end of this winter, biologists expect elk numbers north of the park to remain within the management objectives. In contrast, during the late 1990s, 5,300-8,600 elk wintered north of the park with 3,500-4,500 elk in the Dome Mountain area. Wintering such large numbers of elk could lead to long-term habitat decline and increase the likelihood of game damage problems on private land.

“From a winter elk management perspective we are currently meeting State Elk Plan population objectives,” Lemke said. “However, elk recruitment remains below desirable levels.” To help address elk recruitment issues, Montana Fish, Wildlife, and Parks dramatically reduced the antlerless elk harvest to an average of less than 75 cows and calves harvested each year during the last three years. “Hunting has basically been removed as a significant factor regulating northern Yellowstone elk numbers,” said Lemke. Late winter recruitment rates have made modest gains in the last two years to 19-24 calves per 100 cows compared to 12-14 calves per 100 cows the previous four years. Elk recruitment objectives for this population are 20-30 calves per 100 cows. This year’s recruitment rate will be determined during aerial surveys conducted in March. “It is unlikely that we will see any significant increase in elk numbers until there is a long-term improvement in recruitment rates,” Lemke added.

The Working Group will continue to monitor trends of the northern Yellowstone elk population and evaluate the relative contribution of various components of mortality, including predation, environmental factors, and hunting. The Working Group was formed in 1974 to cooperatively preserve and protect the long-term integrity of the northern Yellowstone winter range for wildlife species by increasing our scientific knowledge of the species and their habitats, promoting prudent land management activities, and encouraging an interagency approach to answering questions and solving problems. The Working Group is comprised of resource managers and biologists from the Montana Fish, Wildlife, & Parks, National Park Service (Yellowstone National Park), U.S. Forest Service (Gallatin National Forest), and U.S. Geological Survey-Northern Rocky Mountain Science Center, Bozeman.

[cassandrasdaddy]

Recent studies in Yellowstone National Park show that about 70-75 percent of newborn radio-tagged northern Yellowstone elk calves are dead within a year of their birth, mostly due to predation. Predators include primarily bears, wolves, and coyotes-with bears accounting for 55-60 percent of the mortality and wolves and coyotes with another 10-15 percent each

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?id=2286863

[cassandrasdaddy]

ellowstone elk populations decline, but are wolves to blame?
Brodie Farquhar

Yellowstone elk populations have dramatically risen and fallen in recent decades, but researchers are arguing over the relative impact of wolf predation on elk populations.

For example, Yellowstone's famed northern range elk increased from about 4,000 head in 1968 to some 20,000 by 1988, due to a combination of factors: elk colonized new winter range in and north of the park, wet summers resulted in better plant production, winters were mild, and the fires of 1988 opened forests allowing more ground cover to grow. With the reintroduction of wolves into the ecosystem in 1995, elk populations held their own from 1995 to 2000 (17,000), before they dramatically dropped by 50 percent to 8,335 in winter 2004.

At the same time, researchers note both high human harvest levels and seven years of drought at the same time wolf numbers were growing throughout the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem.

http://www.yellowstonepark.com/MoreToKnow/ShowNewsDetails.aspx?newsid=12

[elkman06]

From a different standpoint some very important issues have been left out or mis represented in this discussion.
1: Wolves were becoming a huge issue prior to delisting. Government trappers were spending entire summers trapping and or killing same in the Pinedale area for 2 full yrs prior.
2:I applaud the State of Wyo for playing a more aggressive role in this. The Feds shoved this one down our throats. Seldom do individual states take a stand in a different manner other than the Fed model.
3:funny how there are still elk in yellowstone after all that "decimation"
..A substantial predator base has been reestablished in the area, why wouldn't they have an effect?
4:hence the Fairy tales and BS that followed the europeans who migrated over from those places .
..BS eh? Do you belong to a family that immigrated from any of those places? I do...Not BS.
5:Absolutely Not. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation has Increased the Size of herds and there Roaming area throughout the States... While the RMEF has contibuted extensively in setting aside easments to protect said habitat, I wonder how it is the States managed to grow their herds for 70yrs prior to their involvement. No need to anoint them with oil just yet.

Lastly, this is a clear States' rights' issue. I would be willing to be that at least 95% of the people here will go nuts if all of their fears become realized w/ the new administration and will be screaming "States' Rights'" at the top of their lungs. I will be. But I also believe that the Fed and bunny hugging public had no right to shove wolves up our collective backsides. Personally, I think we need to reintroduce Beavers back into the Potomac so that when I visit the area that I will be able to see their marks on the tree stumps aroung there.
elkman06

[IdahoLT1]

Lastly, this is a clear States' rights' issue. I would be willing to be that at least 95% of the people here will go nuts if all of their fears become realized w/ the new administration and will be screaming "States' Rights'" at the top of their lungs. I will be. But I also believe that the Fed and bunny hugging public had no right to shove wolves up our collective backsides. Personally, I think we need to reintroduce Beavers back into the Potomac so that when I visit the area that I will be able to see their marks on the tree stumps aroung there.
elkman06

Exactly. its the 10th ammendemnt which gives the states the rights to manage their own wildlife. This is the problem people of Wyoming, Montana and Idaho should have with the wolf re-introduction. If a Senator or Congressman from California wants to see wolves in wild, re introduce them into their state lines.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

[Mt Shooter]

If a Senator or Congressman from California wants to see wolves in wild, re introduce them into their state lines.


Wolves in Central Park.

[Art Eatman]

Pollution would keep beavers from surviving in the Potomac.

[cassandrasdaddy]

the potomac is no longer a cesspool we have beaver

[MT GUNNY]

Finally Common Sense Prevails!!! Thanks to All who Poured on the Emails!!

http://fwp.mt.gov/news/article_7815.aspx

[usmc1371]

That is great news now I hope the antis don't throw a bunch of misguided money at a law suit based on emotion rather than good scince. I pray oregon gets its act togather and implements a managment plan befor we have a bunch of wolves.

[therealdoublel]

i think the old timers got rid of wolves back in the day for a reason, too bad some newfangled folk had to come into Wyoming from some other part of the country and do all this 'good' :banghead: i guess i'll probally thank them eventually when i have a nice mounted wolf, not sure if i want it to be above my mantle or mounted sitting up. :D