What exactly is an AK-47 Type?


PDA






ds92
January 4, 2009, 06:37 PM
Hello everybody,
This is my first foray into the legal seciton of THR. Here in CT, the state legislature has outlawed "AVTOMAT Kalashnikov AK-47 type" (http://www.ct.gov/dps/lib/dps/special_licensing_and_firearms/assault_weapons.pdf)
What exactly does that entitle? I know saigas in .308 and 5.56 are legal here, but would an AK 74 or Ak type in 5.45x39 be legal?

Thanks for looking,
DS
:cool:

If you enjoyed reading about "What exactly is an AK-47 Type?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Dutchman01
January 4, 2009, 06:47 PM
apparently not. :cool:

fun2none
January 4, 2009, 08:05 PM
For whatever it's worth, California has similar verbiage in its assault weapon law. The phrase "AK 47 series" was specified in the law yet not defined. It took a state supreme court ruling (Harrott vs Count of Kings (http://web.mit.edu/~joncox/www/docs/harrott_v_kings.shtml)) to specify the manner in which the state AG office's would identify "series" weapons. The end result is that there is a list of firearms that specifies AK and AR15 series. The list is codified in state regulations and the court ruling stated the AG office must update and publish the official list of "series" weapons by make and model. The DOJ relinquished their court mandated responsibility to update the list. Now Californians can legally own rifles that are not on the current list and that do NOT have any assault weapon features.

Bottom line, is that without clarification from the court or state attorney general office, the phrase "AVTOMAT Kalashnikov AK-47 type" can mean anything the authorities want it to mean. It's as clear as saying all "JEEP type vehicles" will be taxed. What's a "JEEP type vehicle" ?:confused:

The literal translation of "AVTOMAT Kalashnikov" is "Kalashnikov's automatic rifle". The current AK "style" clones are not automatic (i.e. machine guns) rifles and they don't have "Kalashnikov AK-47" imprinted on them.

Consider writing a letter to your attorney general office asking for clarification as the current statute can be interpreted to cover AK-47 automatic rifles, not semi-automatic rifles that bear another name. They might agree with you, not respond, or say each county district attorney can interpret it at their discretion.

MisterPX
January 4, 2009, 08:47 PM
does it look like an AK, run like an AK? then prolly a nogo in CT.

BTW, Automatic doesn't instantly mean MG. Up until a couple decades ago, anyhting that self loaded was considered automatic, hence the name, automatic.;)

7.62X25mm
January 4, 2009, 09:56 PM
BTW, Automatic doesn't instantly mean MG. Up until a couple decades ago, anyhting that self loaded was considered automatic, hence the name, automatic.

The legal distinction between "auto" and "semi-auto" has been around since the "Firearms Act" of whatever . . . circa 1934, which put a tax on machine guns.

adamz
January 4, 2009, 10:30 PM
This is obviously a really poorly written statute.
This issue comes up regularly. The answer seems to be that an AK in 7.62x39 is illegal, but any other caliber is OK. For example, in this thread on a another site
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=26&t=318459

Ctbuilder1 wrote "AK47 type weapons are banned. AK47 specifically refers to AK types (including the Gallil and others) chambered in 7.62x39. Any weapon that has interchangeable parts, magazine and chambered for 7.62x39 is an AK type. AK clones chambered in 5.56x45, 5.45x39, .308 and 12 gauge are good to go."

Interestingly, the CZ VZ-58 looks a lot like an AK-47, and is in 7.62x39, but has no parts in common, so it is legal.

You might contact a reputable shop like Newington Gun Exchange and see what they are willing to sell. Or you could ask the State Police. They might not actually know, though.

fun2none
January 5, 2009, 12:05 AM
does it look like an AK, run like an AK? then prolly a nogo in CT.

What exactly is an AK ? Show me a reference model, a technical drawing, industry standard specifications, SKU or part number, blue prints, controlled document that describes it in detail. Otherwise we are down to "you know what I mean" type of reasoning.

WardenWolf
January 5, 2009, 04:35 AM
You have to understand that all these "assault weapons" bans are really just regulating look and feel, and trying to stymie the natural evolution of firearm ergonomics and design. Because of this, look and feel is what usually matters in most states. The crafters of these bans are also not gunsmiths, so they typically are unable to craft a technically worded document that would clearly define what embodies a particular type of firearm, that would also bar other substantially similar firearms using the same type of action. Invariably, such documents are either overly broad or overly narrow.

Because of this, however, I would be cautious to actually post a technical written definition that would define the core of an AK or any other semiautomatic firearm. I do not want to give antis the definition and wording to use in their next bill. Diagrams can be found in countless locations, but putting it to words is another matter.

Prince Yamato
January 5, 2009, 10:22 AM
The CT AWB defines AK-47 type as any gun that is based off of the 7.62x39 Kalashnikov action and readily interchanges parts with the 7.62x39 rifle. You can own an AK in any other caliber, provided it doesn't have more than the standard "2 evil features".

unisonic12
January 5, 2009, 11:44 AM
I live in CT and can answer this definitively. The AK-47 "type" must meet all three of these criteria. This came straight from the SFLU.

1) Does it look like an AK-47?

2) Does if function like an AK-47?

3) Can AK-47 parts be installed in the rifle and it function correctly?

So, my AK-74 fails the first two, but not the third hence it is perfectly legal. I don't even know if AK-47 parts would fit, but you sure as sh^t aren't stuffing a 7.62 down a 5.45 bore.

You can own an AK in any other caliber, provided it doesn't have more than the standard "2 evil features".

Sorry, Charlie...you got that last part wrong. You can only have ONE evil feature if it is a semi-automatic rifle that has the capability to accept detachable magazines.

Straight from the law which defines what comprises an illegal "assault rifle" in CT:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/pub/Chap943.htm#Sec53-202a.htm

" (3) Any semiautomatic firearm not listed in subdivision (1) of this subsection that meets the following criteria:

(A) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:

(i) A folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) A bayonet mount;

(iv) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

(v) A grenade launcher; or"


Here's my AK-74 and SKS. The only ONE evil feature on my 74 is the pistol grip. The muzzle device is a muzzle brake and NOT a flash suppressor, which is listed as an "evil feature". My SKS is legal and can have all the "evil bling" on it because it does not use detachable magazines. Do NOT go giving out into that could put people in jail, OK?

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/AlbertD/Mk-74.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/AlbertD/SKS.jpg

unisonic12
January 5, 2009, 11:51 AM
The thing that does make me uncomfortable about owning anything "AK related" in CT is the definition of the AK-47 "type" is not actually written in the laws anywhere. The SFLU (state firearms and licensing unit) makes up the rules for that and the only place I've ever seen it in writing was in a email from SGT Bastura, the XO of the SFLU. And, I keep a printed copy of that email exchange in my range bag should I ever be questioned on my AK-74.

So, what's to prevent them from just saying that if it looks like an AK-47, then it IS a "type" thereby throwing away the other two criteria? I wouldn't put it past them in this commie libtard state. :rolleyes:

The whole CT AWB is just plain stupid. Can't have an AK in 7.62, but an SKS converted to use AK mags in 7.62 is perfectly legal if it only has ONE "evil feature" and is in compliance with 922r regarding foreign parts count. Still gives you the same firepower and capacity as an AK-47. Hmmm...for some strange reason, SGT Bastura failed to address that point when I brought it up.

LKB3rd
January 5, 2009, 04:21 PM
I have had trouble tracking down a hard copy of this, but apparently Aty Gen. Blumenthal defined an "AK type" as:
Uses the operating system of an ak
Interchangeable parts with an ak
Shoots 7.62x39
This is why you can get Saiga's in .223 and .308. I have also talked to shop owners who said they got and sold AK74's here.
I know another shop owner who still won't handle Saiga's because he doesn't think it is concrete enough to be safe.
I got my .308 Saiga at Hoffman's and called them to get in writing whatever justification they have for considering them legal. The guy took down my number, but didn't call back. I want to get something in writing to keep with the rifle to be safe.

unisonic12
January 5, 2009, 05:03 PM
If you want, I could forward you a copy of the email that Sgt. Bastura, the XO of the SFLU sent me. Better than nothing and I keep a printed copy in my range bag should I ever be questioned.

I bought my AK-74 right here at a gun show in Waterbury. Another "mind easer" was he also told me that the SLFU looks at every thing the sellers have each day before the show opens to the public. And, they constantly have plain clothes officers roaming the shows after they open to make sure someone doesn't put something illegal on a table after the morning search. So, it's pretty much impossible to buy anything CT "illegal" at a CT gun show. I also keep copies of the receipt and the registration form from that transaction in my range bag to prove I didn't bring it in from out of state and that it was legally purchased in CT from a CT FFL dealer.

Gunnerpalace
January 5, 2009, 05:34 PM
Semiautomatic Bolt-Action Rifle.....No that was not a joke


In all seriousness for the most part they base it off of the ATF MSAR findings,
And or what the did in the 94 ban which was thumbing though a gun catalog choosing what looks "scariest".

RioShooter
January 6, 2009, 09:42 PM
Any gun that looks evil.

If you enjoyed reading about "What exactly is an AK-47 Type?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!