UN's definition of "legitimate small arms user"


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Oleg Volk
September 25, 2003, 05:07 PM
http://www.olegvolk.net/newphotos/tn3/owner.jpg
Tried for a bit of a pun for the right-wingers here.

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Skunkabilly
September 25, 2003, 05:11 PM
Oleg, looks great! Maybe you can throw in a citation of the exact UN law that defines this in small small print somewhere on the image just to back it up?

Mark Tyson
September 25, 2003, 05:26 PM
Very nice. Try one poster with only a picture of the Nazi though to see how it looks.

AJ Dual
September 25, 2003, 05:27 PM
However, for a final production version I would just simply have it read "Yet, to the U.N., the only "legitamate arms user" is the state

Anyone dense enough to not get the contrast between the white male SS trooper, and the black female civilian won't be helped by pointing out the "-sanctioned man on the Left"


And yes... capital "L" Left.

Ha-ha! :D

Daniel T
September 25, 2003, 05:55 PM
The capital "L" is a masterful touch.

BTR
September 25, 2003, 06:13 PM
Excellent. I would leave the text the same.

Kaylee
September 25, 2003, 06:18 PM
ordinarily I'd say the Nazi thing had been way Way WAY overdone, and it'd be helped by fiding some stock footage of Stalin's gang instead. BUT... given the MP40 in both frames, the irony is just too delicious. That's almost as good as the Israeli 98ks. :D

good text. good pictures. :)

Oleg Volk
September 25, 2003, 06:19 PM
Commie version coming soon, don't worry.

SAG0282
September 25, 2003, 06:20 PM
UN=axis of evil.

Quartus
September 25, 2003, 06:26 PM
Ever play with cornstarch? If you make a paste of cornstarch and water, you'll find it has some interesting properties. You can drag your finger through it slowly, and it will flow around your finger. Go too fast, and it will act like a weak solid and crack on you.


People are like that - you can't push them too fast. I think this poster could be VERY useful, but it goes too fast. It's too much for the mushy middle.

"That woman has a machinegun!!!!! You CAN'T be suggesting that it's okay for her to have a MACHINE GUN!!!!!"


The average American still believes we have the right of self defense. Telling them (the truth) that we have the right to have full military weapons is a bit too much for most, though. They aren't ready to hear it.

Try it with her holding a nice clean, ordinary (blued, wood grips), revolver. That's probably the least threatening, yet obviously for personal defense (not hunting) weapon she could be holding, in the minds of Joe or Jane Middleground. MOST Americans will react favorably to that image, I think, but will write you off as a kook if you use the sub-gun.


You and I know the truth, and I'm not suggesting we should be ashamed of it. But it's about winning the educational war, and a good teacher knows how to pace his teaching.

Oleg Volk
September 25, 2003, 06:35 PM
Will have versions with a K98 and a S&W M&P, too ;) And if I can find a Beretta 38 or an MP18, I can have a "safe" submachine gun, too...

Wildalaska
September 25, 2003, 06:55 PM
Masterpeice! One of your best!

WildartcriticAlaska

Moparmike
September 25, 2003, 07:41 PM
Its great!

I like it! What version of Photoshop do you use?

I dont know if I am just dense or what, but it took me a sec to realize it was a Nazi stormtrooper. Can you put some sort of swastika or "SS" on his helmet?

ceetee
September 25, 2003, 07:45 PM
Quartus is right... but I think the better contrast yet would be showing the woman with a nice, safe, civilian revolver, against the Nazi holding a Luger. I mean you can show a Luger with nobody holding it and people instantly think "Nazi..."

cracked butt
September 25, 2003, 08:19 PM
Oleg, Are you ever going to put together a coffe table book with your posters? That would be neat.:D

Standing Wolf
September 25, 2003, 09:05 PM
It's very good. I'd tighten the letter spacing and kill the comma after "Yet." I like the contrast between the clearly depicted woman and the vaguely defined soldier.

MeekandMild
September 25, 2003, 10:17 PM
I like it. don't change it too much.! :D

Travis McGee
September 25, 2003, 10:20 PM
Don't get me wrong, it's great as-is: for shooters and the RKBA crowd. But casual observers will be thrown by adding the dimension of race, and the "mahine guns."

To make the same point, I think it's hard to improve on the pictures of grinning Nazis holding pistols to the heads of doomed victims by mass graves, while other Nazis look on approvingly.

Just little bitty pistols, and mass graves.

All made possible by the state monopoly on firearms.

Brian Dale
September 25, 2003, 11:25 PM
Another masterpiece!

I like that you're doing some with other weapons, as well; I suspect that when a lot of folks listen to news reports about "traffic in Small Arms," they think that it means only machine guns, mortars and military, select-fire rifles. Maybe old military bolt rifles, but not our snubbies. Maybe your Garand, but not my shotguns. We know they're wrong, and I like seeing her with her subgun; I bet she has fire extinguishers at home, too.

I agree with Standing Wolf: I suggest that you kill the comma after "Yet."

I also recommend changing "legitimate arms user" to "legitimate small arms user."

Recommend you delete the words, "state-sanctioned." The audience can see where he's from, and the words flow more smoothly. The simpler phrasing also brings forth a "Huh? But he's a Nazi! What do you mean?" from the reader. It draws the reader in toward the point you're making.

As always, this advice might be worth just what you paid for it.

{edited to add: and if you don't already have a poster with "All made possible by the State monopoly on firearms" as the caption, under the photo that Travis mentions (one or more Nazi soldiers pointing pistols at civilians' heads, at the edge of a mass grave), I think that's powerful. I ADMIT that I MIGHT BE DESCRIBING ONE OF YOUR EXISTING POSTERS here. I remember a bunch of them (how could I not?), but I don't remember them all}

Kamicosmos
September 25, 2003, 11:46 PM
How about instead of the nazi, just show a blue helmeted UN soldier with a fal or something else, and have the woman holding that type of gun as well.

Some people may get confused thinking the UN supported the Nazi's, which of course the UN wasn't around then...

You said a commie version is on the way, so I think a UN...or maybe an ATF/FBI-HRT version too. it could be a series with different color schemes.

vertigo7
September 26, 2003, 12:35 AM
I like it! Could we possibly see a version with the figures nudged slightly left, so we might see the complete SMG our friendly model is toting?

Orthonym
September 26, 2003, 12:52 AM
I don't think they'll catch the point about Nazi standing for National SOCIALIST.

Sean Cloherty
September 26, 2003, 01:17 AM
Quartus is right on the mark and I love the corn starch anaolgy.

If the target audience is an anti or a fence sitter, then it needs to be toned down.

IF the target audience is duck hunters - then maybe I would go with that.

If it is a TFL / THR member, then we want more details on how difficult it is to get your Class III license, how much it costs too feed one of those toys etc. - In other words, we aren't the audience or we wouldn't be on these boards.

My $.02 (What the hell is the ASCII code for the CENTS sign anyway???)

Moparmike
September 26, 2003, 03:28 AM
Sean:

Pressing the button "Alt" plus the numbers "0162" will give you ยข.

Greg L
September 26, 2003, 06:59 AM
You may want to put her into a different colored shirt (something bright). To my (admittedly colorblind) eyes it looks like her shirt is roughly the same color as the grey that the Germans wore.

Greg

geekWithA.45
September 26, 2003, 09:56 AM
I agree that to enhance the point, the woman should have a less controversial firearm. Too many folks won't be able to get over a civilian with an SMG. I'd even go six shooter vs the govt issued smg.


My .02 on the text:


"Governments Murdered 170,000,000 civilians during the 20th Century."

So just why is it the UN defines governments to be the only "legitimate arms users"?

hso
September 26, 2003, 11:12 AM
Gotta agree with Quartus. The civilian should be presented with a home defense type firearm.

Kaylee
September 26, 2003, 12:21 PM
While Quartus and all make a valid point, I have to admit that it was Oleg's positive treatment of ARs, AKs and the like coupled with his reasoning that brought me to TFL -- and hence THR -- in the first place. Basically it said to me "evil black rifles aren't just for kooks."

I think the stand he took then is no different than the one this poster takes now, and I think it DOES have a place. Sure the fence sitter soccer moms might not take to it -- but will they even see it in the first place? The video gamer kids and casual boltgun shooters, the ones just getting started.. they are more likely to see it, and I think it's a good message for them.

However, with those two images, I might take a slightly different tack.. something along the lines of ...



in military hands this weapon was used to kill unarmed civilians.
In civilian hands it visits a target range twice a month
[** alternate -- 'in civilian hands it protects a household' **]

Who can really be trusted to own it?

or somesuch.

Quartus
September 26, 2003, 12:45 PM
and I think it DOES have a place. Sure the fence sitter soccer moms might not take to it -- but will they even see it in the first place?

Well, why not? Let's get this stuff on some billboards!


This is part of the answer to the "What would you do for the RKBA if you were a millionaire?" thread.


I'd put Oleg's work on billboards and in magazines. And you're right, Kaylee - the poster as is DOES have a place. But not for the general public. With revisions I suggested, I'd put it in Better Homes and Gardens, Ladies Home Journal, Reader's Digest, etc.


'Course, I'd probably have to BUY some of those mags and fire the staff before I could buy the ad space. But that would be A GOOD Thing! :D

JeepDriver
September 26, 2003, 06:12 PM
Oleg, Are you ever going to put together a coffe table book with your posters? That would be neat.

Sign me up! I'll take atleast 3 of them!

blackhawk2000
September 26, 2003, 09:54 PM
IMO I would put the woman in a different colored shirt. It almost looks like some sort of military color to me at first glance. Other than that, good job.

Dilettante
September 26, 2003, 10:02 PM
By the way...I don't think the UN has any rules against state-sanctioned gun wielders on the Right...just no civilians.

Nightfall
September 27, 2003, 01:47 AM
Nicely done.

NukemJim
September 27, 2003, 10:10 AM
People are like that - you can't push them too fast. I think this poster could be VERY useful, but it goes too fast. It's too much for the mushy middle.

I'd put Oleg's work on billboards and in magazines. And you're right, Kaylee - the poster as is DOES have a place. But not for the general public. With revisions I suggested, I'd put it in Better Homes and Gardens, Ladies Home Journal, Reader's Digest, etc.

"Oleg, Are you ever going to put together a coffe table book with your posters? That would be neat." Sign me up! I'll take atleast 3 of them!

As always excellent, powerful, thought provoking awesome images. I am deeply impressed by your work. Thank your for sharing these images.

NukemJim

Travis McGee
September 27, 2003, 12:23 PM
Billboards and coffee table books! Yes on both!

And how about postcards?

They could be sold here on THR, by the pack. Postcards are great for taping or pinning up on cubicles at work, or they can actually be used as post cards and mailed!

mussi
September 27, 2003, 02:35 PM
Thought-provoking, it shows what modern photography is able to do. Oleg, your photos need to tour in European museums. Maybe it will wake up some sheeple, before the last vestiges of freedom are lost on them.

Keith
September 27, 2003, 03:04 PM
Why use the submachine gun? The liberal is going to have a visceral reaction of "I don't want either of these people to have that gun".
Wouldn't pictures of the two people with Lugers or P-38 make the same point?

Keith

Dilettante
September 29, 2003, 05:08 PM
I'm guessing there's a reason why you want them to have similar guns. I think I understand why, but isn't that an unusual gun for a 40ish civilian woman to be carrying, and isn't it a little large for her frame?
When I look at the picture I start asking myself questions like that -- which are probably a distraction from the real point.

Orthonym
September 30, 2003, 12:54 AM
(except when it comes to technical details). We are, after all, a self-selected group. Boy, you need to get yo'self a FOCUS GROUP like all of them there marketers and politicians! (Don't forget the cake and cookies!)

Oleg Volk
September 30, 2003, 09:43 AM
The main reason for the subgun is that I planned to compare and contrast the number of murders committed by US oweners of automatic weapons from the 1890s on up to to today with the record of government activities over just a year or two...couldn't get the phrasing right.

Greg L
September 30, 2003, 10:43 AM
How about: "With all the additional legal hoops to jump through there have been no (or "x" # as I don't know the actual #) murders by legal machine gun owners in the US since 1934. The German govt on the other hand used them to assist in 6 million murders between 1939-45. We don't need gun control we need politican control"

I would use the 1934 date as that is when the additional hoops came into play.

Greg

ReadyontheRight
September 30, 2003, 11:26 AM
Oleg -- nice!

My only suggestions are to match the headline with the subscript -- changing "State" to "Government".

And maybe give her an evil handgun or a good old AMerican AR/M4 rather than a submachine gun.

Picky little stuff. It works well the way it is.

BluesBear
September 30, 2003, 07:33 PM
Well, I guess we could just jump in the old time machine and grab a shapshot of a SS Trooper holding the M16 we had just presented him....

No wait, if you see my time machine then I'd have to erase you.:evil:

I like the symbolism of the two people holding the same weapon.
As for the minor fact that background weapon is most assuradly full auto the one the woman is holding could very well be a legal semi-auto carbine.

I doubt that most Blissninneys and Sheep won't even know. To them it is just a gun. Anyway, IMHO, the images as they appear are very powerful as is the caption. The guns don't really matter. As I said before I like the same gun in post images idea.


Just my Tuppence.

P95Carry
September 30, 2003, 07:38 PM
Kudos Oleg .... strong message.

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