Bear Hunting Trip: Need a new rifle

I've got a Savage 110 in 30-06 that is a great gun, I just don't like it. It kicks hard (because it's light), the scope sucks, and I've been dying to replace it.

I just signed on to a black bear hunting trip in May up in Canada, and am thinking this is the perfect time to buy a new rifle/scope combo that will last me quite a while.

I want a caliber big enough for bear, maybe elk someday, but small enough to whitetail hunt and not blow my shoulder off when a .243 would do.

I'm thinking .308 because it's been described to me as .30-06 power with less recoil. Exactly what I want...

What's a good rifle/scope combo to start out looking at?

Thanks

what kinda budget?
A kimber montana with a leupold vx-III 2.5-8 in 308, 7mm-08, or 260 would fit the bill nicely IMHO

I'm a little out of touch with gun prices lately, but maybe $1200-$1500 for rifle and scope.

I plan to keep it awhile (forever). Also, left handed bolts actions would be great, but not required. Although some type of ambi safety would definitely be nice.

Rifles in 308 are short actions and somewhat lighter than 30-06 sized gun, so the recoil may end up being more or equal in a lighter rifle. I would recommend .270 Winchester in a moderate rifle. I would strongly avoid a tikka, my buddies light weight tikka .270 kicks as hard as a 300 WSM in a weighing 2lbs more. Meanwhile my .270 weighing about 8.5lbs scoped and slung has a very timid recoil.

You want to put the Bear down fast, so you need power. I'd buy this Ruger in 7MM and put a Leupold 4X12 and a Sling on it. It's a great caliber that doesn't kick too hard.

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/176L.jpg

M77® Mark II Sporter bolt action rifles are available in both right- and left-hand models and feature:

** Rugged, weather-resistant laminate stocks and stainless steel barreled actions.

** One-piece bolt that has proven to be one of the strongest on the market, standing up over the years to such magnum cartridges as the .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, and .458 Lott.

** Non-rotating, Mauser-type controlled-feed extractor, the most positive case extraction system ever invented, and a fixed blade-type ejector that positively ejects the empty cases as the bolt is moved fully rearward.

** Patented floorplate latch, mounted flush with the front of the trigger guard, that secures the hinged floorplate against accidental dumping of cartridges, yet allows quick unloading of the magazine by simply pressing from the outside of the guard.

** Patented integral scope rings that attach directly to the receiver's precision-machined mounting surfaces, eliminating a potential source of looseness and inaccuracy in the field (included at no extra cost).

** Easily accessible three-position safety that allows the shooter to lock the bolt, or to load and unload with the safety engaged.

** Studs for mounting sling swivels.

Caliber: 7mm Rem Mag
Barrel Length: 24"
Stock: Brown Laminate
Rear Sight: None
Suggested Retail Price: $ 837.00

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdResults?function=famid&famid=31&variation=Sporter&bct=Yes&type=Rifle

id go with:7mm08 ,243, 6.5x55 swiss

As long as it is Black Bear we are talking about there is probably no need for a Magnum rifle of any kind and that is the same for if you ever do go elk hunting.

That being said your choice of a 308 is a good one. As is the 270, and 30-06. 7mm-08 and 280 Remington would work as well. The 308 being relatively common is good. Savage tends to have good selection of lefty rifles though being a lefty myself I tend to avoid lefty rifles as much as I can. But you say you plan to keep it forever so you might as well get the one you want.

I like Savage rifles best as far as price and quality is concerned. They dont skimp on the details either. Rugers are also excellent with lots of caliber offerings and lefty options available as well. They will cost more than the Savage. Anyway there are millions of options.

CDOGG...

You will barely be able to tell the difference in recoil between the .308 and the .30/06, if at all.

The very heaviest calibers you should consider are the .270 or 7mm/08. The .260 Remington and the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser are even better chioces.

But an ideal choice for your bear hunt would be the .30/30. You can get a used Marlin 336 lever-action and put a great scope on it plus a sling for probably less than $500. You will then have an extremely useful and versatile rifle that doesn't beat you up or send you to The Poorhouse.

Good Luck !
:cool:

Personally since you have until may I would consider getting a Mosin M44 cleaning it up all nice and putting a good scope on it. You will need to either get a compatible bolt handle or a long eye relief scope but you will be WAY under budget of any other choice.

I agree with the selection of the 7/08 if you are sensitive to the recoil of the 30/06. I'd look at a Rem. Model Seven or Ruger Hawkeye and top it with a Burris FFII 2-7x35, VXII or Leupold European 30mm 2-7x33, or Nikon Monarch 2-8x32. I'd stay at a low setting under 3X as you will likely be hunting baited bears and having shots that could be VERY close. I'd also recommend a reticle such as a German #4 or Heavy Duplex as they work very well in lower light conditions
Good Luck

If you want to buy another rifle, then 7mm-08 would be a good choice.
Another option could be "managed recoil" ammo for the 30'06 that you already have. Several ammo makers produce the easier shooting rounds in several calibers.

NCsmitty

This is great info. I always though a 7mm was a cannon, even more than a 30-06!

I am looking to buy a new or nearly new rifle as I do plan on keeping it for a long time. I'm really stuck on a .308 and not sure why. I know I want to keep it above .270.

The bears will be baited and probably no more than 50yds away, but I do want to get a scope I can bring back and to deer hunting with just as easily. Something 3x9 or 4x12 maybe? Scopes get real expensive real fast, what are some good scopes worth the money?

Cdogg44;

It's a very good possibility that the percieved recoil you object to from your current .30-06 has more to do with the stock design than the actual energy impulse transmitted from the cartridge itself.

Savages are decent guns, but are more known for cost effective accuracy than high end components, like stocks. Another factor that can easily affect your comfort level is the eye relief of the scope and it's proper mounting to fit your personal relationship with the stock.

T'were me, and it has been several times now, I'd think seriously about upgrading both rifle and glass. The .30-06 is a cartridge that suites your stated needs to the letter. Without going overboard on cost, I can think of several rifles that may very well fit you much better. See if you can find a way to test fire a CZ550, Tikka, Remington 700, Winchester model 70 classic, or Weatherby Vanguard for fit.

For glass, Leupold VX-II, Nikon Monarch, or Zeiss Conquest, are all very good products that I can endorse from personal experience. They all have very, very, good glass that reduces eyestrain to a non-factor and easily provide proper eye relief. Talley mounts, go no farther.

Good luck finding what you want, hope this helps.

900F

Get a slip on recoil pad and shoot reduced loads in the 30-06. Take a look through a Nikon Prostaff or Buckmaster and or a basic Leupold scope next time your at wally world put one of those on your Savage. No need for another rifle.

Savage model 11 in 308...it has a 22 inch barrel that is not pencil thin like the Remington model 7, which makes it heavy enough (but not too heavy) that recoil is light.

It can be had with or without iron sights...I recommend getting the iron sights and see through mounts...I've killed a few blackies and the irons are a nice thing to have in thick cover.

You will like the price...and 308 is as good as it gets for black bears.

EDITED TO ADD: I do not have that rifle...but a friend just bought one and I have shot it...it is a very nice rifle, accurate too.

A good quality 2-7 scope is sufficient for any deer hunting done with a 7/08. Many hunters overscope themselves and their rifles and some suffer the consequences of forgetting to turn it down from 9,10,14X etc., when the shot of a lifetime appears at 35 yds. You will also not suffer one iota at the range either. The same size groups can be shot at 100 or 200yds with a quality 7X scope as with a 9 or 10X scope on a big game hunting rifle. Trust me, no shot will ever be overly difficult with a 7X scope on a 7/08. A .300UM, 7mmUM, or similar is a different story, perhaps.

I'm with TNHUNTER - a 2x7 is plenty. I just bought a Nikon ProStaff 2x7 - under $150 and it's great !

Today's new hunters way overscope their rifles.

:cool:

This is great info. I always though a 7mm was a cannon, even more than a 30-06!

I am looking to buy a new or nearly new rifle as I do plan on keeping it for a long time. I'm really stuck on a .308 and not sure why. I know I want to keep it above .270.

The bears will be baited and probably no more than 50yds away, but I do want to get a scope I can bring back and to deer hunting with just as easily. Something 3x9 or 4x12 maybe? Scopes get real expensive real fast, what are some good scopes worth the money?

the 7mm is basically a 300 win mag necked down to a .270 caliber. The .270 winchester is basically a necked down .30-06. I would also keep your rifle. You can buy an extra recoil pad for your stock and use the $500-$700 you would spend on a new rifle towards some excellent optics. A very decent Leupold scope will run ~$400.

Another option would to replace your Savage barrel with heavy/bull barrel chambered in the same cartridge. It should weigh at least 1lb more and be more accurate at longer ranges. My 10FP .308 weighs 8.5lbs, which is 1lb heavier than the regular model 10. You could also have the barrel glass beaded to add a bit more weight. At 23 years old and in decent shape, i think my rifle is on the heavy side for packing around during 3-4 mile hunts, granted i have a 8-24x 50mm scope on it. But i do hunt ground squirrels with it and have shot ~110rds in a 3-4hr period with no problems at all. and i weigh all but a buck 60

the 7mm is basically a 300 win mag necked down to a .270 caliber.
Actually .284


Another option would to replace your Savage barrel with heavy/bull barrel chambered in the same cartridge. It should weigh at least 1lb more and be more accurate at longer ranges.
certainly an option, but why would he want a heavy barrel gun for bear hunting at 50 yards? or even deer hunting? Heavy barrels and glass bedding are great, but probably more hindrance than help to a guy hunting bears in maine and an occasional deer hunt.

I'm really stuck on a .308 and not sure why
Because it is extremely versatile;-)
The good thing about it beyond your immediate concern of deer and bear are that you can step up to something like a speer 180 gr grand slam bullet and be more than adequately armed for elk or moose.

Why don't you just get a recoil-managed 30-06 load and a Limbsaver pad? With the money you save, you can easily afford to replace your scope. You could even contact Magnaport and have a Magnabrake installed on the gun. That'll make it extremely pleasant.

Granted, I want a Savage .308, but I don't also own a 30-06. If I were you, I'd see about fixing the gun you've got rather than changing to one that's very similar.

You should be able to find a rifle in one of these two chamberings. I have a .260 Remington that has very little recoil with 140 grain loads. The 6.5 Swede is its ballistic twin. The 140 grain bullet has a good sectional density and very little recoil. The 160 grain has even better sectional density and some recoil, about like a 150 grain 06. This is my personal choice as a minimal chambering for an elk gun. Both cartridges work very well on deer and black bear with either the 140 or 160 grain bullets.

Actually .284


certainly an option, but why would he want a heavy barrel gun for bear hunting at 50 yards? or even deer hunting? Heavy barrels and glass bedding are great, but probably more hindrance than help to a guy hunting bears in maine and an occasional deer hunt.

Good catch. i messed up on that one. The heavier barrel or glass bedding will add more weight to the rifle and should reduce the perceived recoil. As far as long range hunting, depending on where you live/what the terrain is like, a person may or may not need it. Ive come acoss muleys on a ridge that were ~300yds out. I cant get closer because of the lack of tree's and shrubs. The heavy barrel could make the difference in making that shot.

Before you opt for a new rifle:

Try a wearable recoil pad from PAST, available at Midway. Shoot your rifle more and try a lighter load like 150 gr Remington core-lokt soft point. the more you shoot, the less you'll notice it.

There are numerous ways to make your rifle 'shoot softer'. One is to put more weight in the stock (by drilling and putting lead shot in the stock) another is toput a thicker spongier recoil pad on it or try reduced recoil ammunition.

If you heart is set on a new rifle, make sure it's heavier than your old one and still use the wearable recoil pad to get used to shooting it.


In the field you can wear it or not, its really no different to me than wearing a heavy coat.

That leaves you a lot of options for upgrading your glass. First off if you have those factory aluminum rings and mounts, ditch them for steel. if you are really likely shooting at 50 yards or so, get the largest objective you can like 40-50 mm and leave your scope turned down on the lowest power. That way you are taking advantage of the light gathering properties of the optics rather than the long range aspect. Practice shooting with your scope set on its lowest setting. (2 x or 3x) Burris is a brand I really like, as is Leupold. Any 3x9 with plex style crosshairs will do.

If you are looking to buy a new rifle, by all means there are a myriad of great choices from Ruger, Savage, Marlin etc. to choose from.

If you want a new rifle then buy a new rifle.

It sounds like all you need though is a better scope and recoil pad for the '06 you already own.

The 30-06 is capable of killing any black bear currently walking the earth. I hunt them with a 30-06 down east in NC where we have some very large bears.

M'bogo

In my experience with savage rifles, the stock design causes them to be the hardest kicking guns per caliber you can get. Why not buy an aftermarket stock and a good 2-7 scope? Problems solved. But then mayber you are like me and posting this for the wife to see. Gives me reasons to buy guns.:D

Wow.....some questionable advice in this thread.

I have spent alot of time hunting and guiding in Ontario and other parts of Canada for bear and big game, as well as in North Carolina and in the Western USA. That being said,...I would laugh in your face if you showed up with a .243, .260, 6.5x55 ect. I usually know a year in advance what my clients are planning to shoot, what loads they will use, and what gear they bring. I check back with them throughout the offseason to ensure they are in shape, studying bear judging, and shooting often. I think for bear (300-600lb live weight) a 7mm-08 is a MINIMUM, and I would prefer that you have a .30 cal with well made heavy bullets. I want that bear down right now!

There is nothing wrong with the rifle you have. Try the 180gr managed recoil loads in your .30-06. You can also have weight added to your stock, and/or add a better recoil pad. If you have a spare mag that you don't mind destroying, pour it full of lead and then load your rifle like a single shot. There are plenty of good aftermarket stocks out there too. McMillen and B&C are two of my favorites.

Got a friend that handloads? Try a good .30 cal bullet at aroung 2400 fps. Mild recoil and still plenty of power to break a bruin down.

You DO need a scope with good magnification as you will want to examine your bear and judge its size prior to taking a shot. However, most shots WILL be at less than 80 yards. I would be just as happy to see you show up with iron sights and good 10x50 binocs as a 4-12x50scope.

If you must buy a new rifle, and it sounds as if you want to anyway, I would get a fairly heavy .308 or .7mm-08, (Ruger Hawkeye, Remington VTR, ect) and put a good optic with mid-range power on it. (3-9X40)

Perhaps the best thing you can do is spend a few hours at the range with a shooting coach working on your form and practicing with the rifle and load you will be shooting. You may find that that .30-06 doesn't kick as hard as you remember. Not to make you feel bad, but my 105lb wife shoots very hot handloads out of a 7lb .30-06. She practices often with a .22lr and lighter loads in the '06. We shoot more than most people due to having a range in our back yard.

I hope you have a great hunt and take a biggin!!!

T2E

tango2echo is right on the money. If you shoot lighter bullet weights for deer like 130-150 you will get less recoil and still have more than enough power for deer. Step up to heaver bullet weight for bear, I think that recoil will be the last thing on your mind if things get dangerous. Don't shoot as much from the bench as from field positions, you get more felt recoil from the bench.

Take it from an old, bear hunter, the main thing is to put that bear down hard, because there is nothing scarier than following a wounded bear's blood trail into a thicket.