[Redlg155]

Just curious..given the choices out there, do you guys want Arnold? If no..then who?

I was looking at Arnold's website and it seems that he supports gun control, but he also states he supports the 2nd.

http://www.joinarnold.com/en/agenda/arnoldsviews.php

Where do you stand on gun control?

I am a strong supporter of the second amendment. The U.S. constitution allows for law-abiding citizens to own a firearm.

I also believe that there are responsibilities that gun owners must follow in owning a firearm. I support the Brady bill, I support the current assault weapons ban and I believe that guns must have safety devices or be stored as to prevent accidental discharge.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


oops, don't worry about the above post. I think I answered it myself by a bit of reading. :D Should have read a bit first!

Good Shooting
Red

[Mark Tyson]

Revolting. The man doesn't know jack about the 2nd amendment. I don't think he knows too much about the others either. He's another Hollywood elitist. He's got money and fame, now he wants power.

[QuickDraw]

Given the choices, do Cali THR members want Arnold?

I don't!
I'm voting for McClintock.
If Davis retains his throne(as in toilet :D ) or Bustamonte wins,
I'm going to start looking for another state to live in.:mad:

QuickDraw

[Jim March]

I'm withholding my vote until the last minute. If Arnold survives the coming slimestorm Davis (and possibly Bustamente) are going to throw at him, and Tom can't get anymore traction, then I'm going to vote for Arnold as the only choice over Busta.

If however Tom has *any* chance going into the finals, he's getting my vote.

Call it unprincipled if y'all want, I call it tactical.

[Cal4D4]

I'd call it pretty realistic.

[jims98z28]

I will be voting for Arnold. I wish McClintock could win, but he can't and Bustamecha would be much worse for this state than Arnold would.

[Jim March]

Caution now: you DON'T know Tom can't win yet.

There's two weeks left for Arnold to stick his foot so far down his mouth he chokes on it. Or for Davis to find something to strangle him with.

Polls right now show that if ARNOLD pulls out in favor of Tom, Tom would win.

Hold fire until you get a clear shot here.

[swifter]

The redoubtable Mr. March, as usual, said it very well. I'm still looking for a new home. The policies of the demoRats - shortsighted vote buying grubs that they are - have done more damage to this state than can be straightened out in my lifetime:cuss: So I'm leaving, regardless of who wins. I don't have many years left, but I'll not spend 'em in a socialist utopia, not even one that's getting enemas 'til clear!:what:
Tom

[yy]

I'm voting libertarian. that cigarette seller. Hope one day a libertarian candidate will win and be fringe no more.

[railroader]

I'm for Mcclintock but if he doesn't come up in the polls I'm going to go with Arnold because I can't stand Bustamonte. I did hear Arnold today saying that cali didn't need more gun laws but we need to enforce the ones we have. As for Bustamonte, if the bullet tax comes up again I could see him signing that in a heartbeat but maybe Arnold wouldn't. I shoot quite a bit and I can't afford $200 to $300 in tax every time I reload a 1000 rounds. Mark

[jims98z28]

Well, I'm not sure most of Arnolds supporters would go to Tom. He seems to attract the people that would be more likely to vote for Cruz than Tom, IMO. But yes you are right, he can win, but its very unlikely.

[GW]

I'm voting McClintock
He is the best man for gunowners in CA
If all of us gunowners stick together and vote for him he can win
I for one am sick of voting for the lesser of 2 evils
For once, there is a candidate I'm willing to donate to and willing to promote and thats him
Compromise is how we let things get so bad in CA
Arnold is a compromise and when he signs the next piece of "sensible gun control", all those who voted for him will have reaped what they have sown.
Vote for McClintock
He is our last best chance

[Jim March]

Let me be clear here: I'm not down on anybody voting for Tom regardless.

If we get a situation where Cruz wins because an obvious pro-freedom vote won't tolerate anything less than great, that's not a bad thing.

The only downside here is that because Tom is..."pro life", a lot of the vote that goes to him will be thought of as "religious right/anti abortion" rather than "pro-freedom, fiscal responsibility" which is the part of what Tom is that matters.

The one thing Cruz and those like him won't do is convert against "pro choice". Ain't gonna happen.

[Gordon Fink]

I am a Libertarian—yes, with a big L—but Tom McClintock is a Republican I can support … at least nine times out of 10. If he is still in the race on Oct. 7th, I will probably vote for him. If the top choice is between only Schwarzenegger and Bustamante, I may as well throw my vote to Mr. Roscoe. (Even Davis said he wouldn’t sign any new gun-control bills while he was first running for governor.)

However, if McClintock clearly can’t win on the eve of the election, he should withdraw gracefully. This would position him favorably to run for the U.S. Senate next year or in 2006. Otherwise, the Republicans won’t owe him any favors.

Where does McClintock suffer? During his closing remarks at this week’s debate, he said that he “supports the entire Bill of Rights” … right after saying that he is “pro-life” (i.e., anti-abortion). He must clarify this ideologically inconsistent position. It really shouldn’t be that difficult. He can continue to despise abortion, while recognizing that it falls under the veil of the Fourth Amendment. Until then, he will alienate voters (especially women) who use this polarizing issue as a political litmus test.

~G. Fink

[Zedicus]

Mark Tyson: Revolting. The man doesn't know jack about the 2nd amendment. I don't think he knows too much about the others either. He's another Hollywood elitist. He's got money and fame, now he wants power.
Well put!

[Sergeant Bob]

Well for those who think Arnold will only enforce existing gun laws, I have heard him clearly state on the Sean Vannity show he supports the AWB (define assault weapon, and remember Ca has it's own), Brady Bill, trigger locks (what flavor?) and.... closing the gun show loophole .

He also stated he would only raise taxes in the case of a state emergency. Such as....earthquake (won't have to worry about that in Ca. :rolleyes: ), large fire (don't have those either ;) ) ....... Then Vannity cut him off repeatedly before he (could say state budget deficit of 38 Billion dollars?) had a chance to stick his considerably muscular foot in his pie hole.

He danced all around affimative action.

Complained that only a third of the people eligible for mediCal were signed up for it they need to get the word out to all the people eligible.

Other than that and other things mentioned, he'd sure get my vote
:barf:

[Penforhire]

I want Tom to win but Arnold is the smart money bet. I think Tom was the ONLY RKBA advocate in the leading candidates, and the toughest financial position. If both those guys run and split the vote and Cruz wins, bleh!

[railroader]

Sergeant Bob,
all the gun control measures Arnold favors are already law in cali. There aren't any assualt weapons or gun show loopholes. Trigger locks for gun purchases. You want to buy a gun here and it is through a dealer with waiting periods and background checks. As for Bustamonte, he already is ready to tax the crap out of drinkers and smokers like they are lepers and I can see him going after gun owners too. Mark

[Sergeant Bob]

all the gun control measures Arnold favors are already law in cali.
He's in favor of some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, and that's considered a good reason to vote for him?

There aren't any assualt weapons or gun show loopholes. Trigger locks for gun purchases. You want to buy a gun here and it is through a dealer with waiting periods and background checks.

Are all private sales subject to NICS? Must they be transacted through an FFL? That's what "closing the gunshow loophole" is all about.

"Assault Weapon" is subject to definition. There are those who are trying to define all semi autos as "assault weapons". It's doubtful he'll ask you for your definition.

Yeah, you'd better vote for Arnold.

[rayra]

McClintock might be a better "Politician", but I'll tell you what - I'm not a one-issue voter, and there is no way that McClintock is going to get the most votes. The only thing he can do by staying in the race is pull a 'Perot' on Schwarzenegger. The percentage for McClintock is the margin Ahnold needs to safely beat Bustamante.
Davis is gone, no doubt in my mind that the Recall Yes/No vote will oust him. The only question after that is if we let the MECHa / Aztlan -favoring Bustamante Win.
I'm voting for Ahnold, because ousting Davis / blocking Bustamante is more important than anything else.

[Preacherman]

Speaking as a non-Californian, I'm afraid I regard that state as lost to civilization, no matter who wins. If Bustamante wins, he's got a Left-wing government already set up to back him. If Arnold wins, he will have to fight that same Left-wing government, and make mucho concessions, if he's to accomplish anything. If McClintock wins, he'd be at loggerheads with that same Left-wing government, as it wants nothing whatsoever to do with his (admittedly sane, balanced and realistic) policies.

I'm afraid that if California is headed down the great sewer of Socialism, it may as well do so under Bustamante as under Arnold - neither will be able to stop the rot.

Hopefully, the rest of America will learn from its fate and avoid the same policies... :rolleyes:

[railroader]

Sergeant Bob, just so you know I'm not on the Arnold bandwagon. I have been rooting for Mcclintock all along and I will vote for him if he can come up in the polls. But in reality he isn't close enough to win at this point. So I have to make a choice on october 7th. Having Bustamonte or Davis as govenor on october 8th isn't acceptable. Just in the last month Davis signed bills to give drivers licenses and free college education to illegal aliens plus the wonderful "all new handguns have to have loaded chamber indicators and mag disconnect features bill". I've had it up to my eyeballs with this crap so what are my real world options. If I vote for Arnold it will be a last resort out of desperation. To give you an idea of the government idiots we have to deal with, here's another thread about NRA membership literature being in with new glock handguns the LAPD gets. A couple of the LA city council members are all up in arms now saying that the NRA paperwork shouldn't come with the guns. These kind of politicians get voted in here all the time. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41960

As for private party transfers I think the only ones that can be done without a FFL are C&R rifles. Everything else has to be done with a dealer with background checks, waiting periods and the "new safety test card " you have to have in your wallet if it is a handgun purchase. Anyway wish us luck, we need it. Mark

[yy]

The short answer? NO.

I entertained that thought for only one day. Schwartzenegger was not pro-gun enough for me. The best he could serve my interest is to veto any new laws coming out of the legislature and maybe repealing a bunch of olde ones. I want less government. And less government intrusions.

[Sactown]

I would love to have Mclintock win, but I will vote Ahnold to keep Boostyourmoney out of there, unless Mclintock can pull out a miracle.

[Sergeant Bob]

railroader As for private party transfers I think the only ones that can be done without a FFL are C&R rifles. Everything else has to be done with a dealer with background checks, waiting periods and the "new safety test card " you have to have in your wallet if it is a handgun purchase. Anyway wish us luck, we need it. Mark
Wow, I didn't know it was that bad there. Sorry, and I do wish you guys all the luck in the world. I used to shoot at that range out on Alabama (IIRC?) and always went to the gunshows down at the National Orange Show. I lived in Highland (just off Main Street) for several years. Was stationed at Norton from 1981 - 1990. Used to be gun lover's heaven out there. Hope it can be again.

[greyhound]

that cigarette seller

I almost choked on my Diet Coke reading that!:D

I think the leftists would rather have a pro-gunner in office than a "cigarette seller", though it might be a close call.

(I don't smoke, but I think smokers are right up there with middle class white males as groups its "OK to bash").:barf:

[Gary H]

You folks really make me want to beat my mouse. I also went through the "don't want rolly polly man" and McClintock can't win so vote for Arnold. I now realize that I'm letting the polls make my choice and frankly, many of the polls have an agenda. I'm going to vote for who I want and that is Tom. Well, we now know how to control your vote ...don't we? Yupp:banghead:

[2dogs]

The Democrat slander machine is in full offensive mode. Street demonstrations by outraged women! Oh the horrors- a "REPUBLICAN" who "abuses" women. What could be worse?:rolleyes:

They've tried the "woman" angle, the "Nazi" angle, the "violence" angle- they need to come up with some disabled folks, African Americans and gays who say that Arnold did something horrible to them. That will pretty well cover it.

However, since I believe McClintock is the best man for the job, if I were a Californian I'd be looking for Arnold to bow out and throw all of his support to McClintock, but I doubt that will happen.

[EWTHeckman]

How do you expect to ever get the best man into office if you don't vote for him? How are the parties to put forth quality candidates if you vote against your own self interests?

And think about this: Would it really be so bad if Bustamente wins because Arnold (NOT Tom) split the vote? If Bustamente wins, we can be guaranteed that he will continue the same type of actions that led to this crisis in the first place. The result will be the complete failure of the California Government. While that is a bad thing in and of itself, it would clearly demonstrate just how unworkable liberal policies really are.

I think that if Arnold wins, he is liberal enough that the California Government will still fail. However, because Arnold wears the label of "Republican" (I would not call him one.) the Democrats will be able to scream that Republican policies didn't work either, while conveniently ignoring the fact that Arnold's policies are almost identical to their own.

Only McClintock seems to have the strength of character to make the hard choices necessary to avoid a failure. And even if he is successful, it can almost be guaranteed that he will be unpopular for necessarily cutting a lot of pet programs.

In other words, I think Arnold would be the worst possible choice for governor. His policies most likely will not stop a failure, but his label will allow liberals to escape their well deserved blame.

[hansolo]

I already voted for McClintock via absentee ballot......I think Arnold makes great action films, but don't think that is enough of a resume to be Governor:neener:

Hasta la Vista, Baby!

[pittspilot]

Californian gun rights voters are caught between a rock and a hard place.

Arnold seems to be far from the dream candidate, but appears to have the game in hand, unless this smear take hold. (I doubt it)

Tom is the dream candidate, but I don't think he would be good governor material. He could also throw the race to Cruz.

Cruz is the nightmare. If Cruz wins, the parade of horribles will be breathtaking to behold. And with all due respect to EWHeckman, I don't have the time or the inclination to ride the rollercoaster to the bottom of the dip.

So, unfortunately, it appears that I will be voting for Arnold. The good news is that is he wins, I will have his autograph on my law diploma.

[longeyes]

Politics has been called The Art of the Possible for good reason.
I like McClintock but this is not an election for Philosopher-King but
for Governor. McClintock can't beat Bustamante and there is no way
we can allow Cruz B. to take office in this State. That would be
utterly ruinous for California--and, frankly, for the America as a whole.

Schwarzenegger has the star power to break up the Democratic majority
in this state. Better something rather than nothing. If McClintock is
smart he'll endorse Schwarz'r while he can still get something for
his support.

[Grey54956]

No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No...

No compromises. Not ever. Not even when everything is going to hell. People are always complaining that the NRA is selling them out, which it is. It does so by compromising with politicians. I notice that a lot of people yelp about S&W compromising with Klinton the Klintonian and the gubbmint. And then a bunch of folks say that they will vote for Ahnold because McFlintlock (actually, couldn't resist poking at his name, no disrespect though...) can't win. Shame on all of you, you know who you are, for compromising yourselves.

Arnold is a terrible choice. Terrible. Better to let Bastardmonkey win, screw Kali up even more, and let the inhabitants of that state go down the crapper. Sooner or later, they will smarten up.

If McClintock spoils the race for Arnold over gun control, then the party leadership will learn that a significant portion of Kalifornians truly care about the issue, enough that they need those people to ever have a chance of winning there. Don't vote for someone you can't in good concience see eye to eye with. That's how we got so far down the slippery slope. That's how the NRA has failed us. That's how we failed ourselves and our countrymen.

[Dan from MI]

I'm a Republican, but I wouldn't be voting for Arnold. I don't vote for gun grabbers and Pete Wilsonites(Tax raisers).

<A href="http://www.helptom.com">Tom McClintock would get my vote</a>

[banzaijohn]

I voted for McClintock too. People ask me why I threw away my vote. In my humble opinion I didn't; I voted based upon principles. McClintock is certainly the most qualified and forthright candidate. If Bustamante or even if Davis were to remain in office, so be it...at least I know where they stand. Arnold talks a good game about being a Republican, but he walks and talks like a liberal and plays to the issues of the day like a spineless jellyfish. I think the only way the State of Kalifornia can right itself is through the referendum process. We will have to put to a vote polarized issues like driver's licenses for illegals and other liberal causes. Of course even then, these issues are unsurped by the infamous 9th Circuit Court of Appeals or their ilk, (remember prop 187).

[hvengel]

If everyone that says "I think McClintock is the best man but he can't win so I will vote for Arnold" voted for McClintock he would win. Almost everyone I have talked to who says they are voting for Arnold has told me they prefer McClintock. Sad story that we are so blinded by the leftist media that they can twist us into voting for "the lesser evil" Alen Keyes said the voting for the lesser evil is still a vote for evil and I for one beleive he is correct.

[longeyes]

"And think about this: Would it really be so bad if Bustamente wins because Arnold
(NOT Tom) split the vote? If Bustamente wins, we can be guaranteed that he will
continue the same type of actions that led to this crisis in the first place. The
result will be the complete failure of the California Government. While that is a
bad thing in and of itself, it would clearly demonstrate just how unworkable liberal
policies really are."

This might surprise you but those of us who now live in California
don't require further demonstration of how unworkable liberal policies
really are. We know, better than you. And, yes, it will "really be so
bad" and not just for us, but for you too, though way too many of the
posters on THR seem to live in a cocoon that encourages them to believe
that California is a far-away alien nation that does not reflect wider
trends.

If you think Bush's policies are that different from Bustamante's, look
more closely, you might be surprised. Yeah, in most ways, Bush is
a flaming liberal on almost everything that matters.

[4v50 Gary]

Absentee ballot casted for McClintock. He won't win, but he'll know there's supporters out there.

[joe4702]

Voting for Tom. Only major candidate that would certainly veto the .50 cal ban and ammo tax bills that will likely end up on the governors desk next year.

[ambidextrous1]

I havealready voted via absentee ballot, for McClintock. I do not find it possible to do anything else.

It's a lot better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.

[Desertdog]

Not who in your party the "polls" says might win.
Remember, it is the VOTES that count, not the polls.
How many times has the polls been right in the past 10 years?
The pollsters have been so far off that their "winner" lost by a wide margin.
If there is enough true republicans who vote their conscience, McClintock will win.

[Sergeant Bob]

The mudslinging against Arnold has only just begun!

Arnold's Love Child (http://www.drudgereport.com/as4.htm)

TV presenter 'groped' by Schwarzenegger may sue (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=450105)

[Bill Hook]

I'm afraid that if California is headed down the great sewer of Socialism, it may as well do so under Bustamante as under Arnold - neither will be able to stop the rot.

Two points:

A) Cruz doesn't want to stop the rot, as the rot creates greater "need" for the leftist agenda (even though it will ultimately burn itself out as it utilizes the resources of an ever shrinking number of producers). These are the same folks who think that anschluss with an impoverished corrupt third world country and/or the adoption of its political and legal practices will somehow lead to prosperity and economic gain for those who are immigrants, or their descendants, from this same country.

B) Arnold will, by association, make the Republican Party take the fall with him WHEN (notice not "if") he fails to implement spin-recovery for Kalifornia.
When this happens, the leftists will get a new lease on life and get 2-3 elections worth of blame for the worsening situation to dump upon the Republicans and beg for a little more time to get things recovered from the "Republican mess."

[gunsmith]

now do the right thing!
like DR Laura said!

[gunsmith]

and if boostyourtaxes wins I don't care anymore!
I hope he makes it so damm unlivable my girlfriend will
want to move home to AZ!
It's allready so bad we really need a 2nd American Revolution!
To bad the troops are occupied in Iraq,the USA needs to invade DC and
allmost every State Capital and hang the treason mongers by the neck
untill they stop spreading STD's (socialist transmitted disease)

[EWTHeckman]

longeyes wrore:
This might surprise you but those of us who now live in California don't require further demonstration of how unworkable liberal policies really are. We know, better than you.

It's pretty clear from what you wrote that you are well aware of just how bankrupt liberal policies are. Unfortunately, the fact that Cruz has a good chance of winning proves that there are far, far too many people who still haven't gotten that idea through their thick skulls. What is it going to take for them to see the light? Maybe nothing more than a full blown spectacular failure will do the job.

Because you are aware of where things are headed, you have an advantage over the blind ones who refuse to see the truth. You can make plans to survive or escape while the willfully blind are "surprised" by the devastation caused by their ill-conceived short-sighted policies.

[longeyes]

What is wrong with this recall Election is that it is not a
Hydra-headed recall of the key radicals in the CA legislature.
THEY are the real problem. To the recall we need to add impeachment
of various and sundry Federal judges who block the will of the people.

The best Arnold or Tom could do is use the veto power. We all know
that by itself can't stop this Titanic from going to the bottom.

I have said before and still believe that it will get worse before
it gets better and that Warren Buffett will buy the joint back at
five cents on the dollar in ten years.

And, yes, I do have an escape plan.

[JeffS]

One thing I've learned is to stick to my values and principles when faced with making decisions in a murky situation. Politics and politicians are generally as clear as mud.

Since my political values are: small government, less taxes, and freedom; I have no choice but to vote for McClintock which is what I will do. However, the first question of whether to recall Davis depends upon whether McClintock can win. I will vote NO if not. The why is simple. If Davis stays, he will have a tough time in the next election cycle. The advantage is we will not be voting for one office but several other state-wide offices as well. There is a much better chance to recall more than one at that time.

[GW]

There's aflaw in your reasoning, Jeffs
First of all, Davis will be term-limited out of office at the end of this term--his second as governor, The other reason to vote yes on the recall is to destroy his political career--to keep him from running for any office again.
If he survives the recall, he'll run for senator to replace Difi If he loses the recall, no one will touch him with a 10 ft pole.
YES ON RECALL
VOTE FOR McCLINTOCK

[DnPRK]

longeyes has it right. The only weapon any Republican Governor has is the veto. He will not get any legislation through the wacky left Democrat-controlled Senate and Assembly.

Those individuals with "principles" who vote for Tom Mc. are probably the same ones who voted for Perot in 1992 due to those same "principles". The result was 8 years of Clinton.

[rayra]

Yes on the Recall to FIRE DAVIS.
Fine to have Arnold for 3 years, he can exercise the hell out of the Veto, and three more years of Dem-led state legislature will make their failures plain for ALL to see.
This time around it's some third of all Democrats in the State willing to fire Davis. Next State Senate and Assembly elections should see a decrease in Dem-eld seats.
Let McClintock come back in 3 years, with a more supportive Leg. and maybe we can get some real decent change in this State.

[EWTHeckman]

What is wrong with this recall Election is that it is not a
Hydra-headed recall of the key radicals in the CA legislature.
You're right about that! I've recently been trying to figure out what kind of penalty should be applied to those who pass laws which are unconstitutional. Maybe automatic removal from office (including a prohibition on holding any public office in the future) for anyone who votes for or signs an unconstitutional law with automatic jail time for anyone who sponsors such a law. I wonder how cautious legislators would be in making sure their laws were constitutional if they knew they could lose everything and even spend time in jail?

[GW]

Laugh at principles all you want
Just don't whine when Arnold screws us all with an "emergency tax" or another "sensible gun control law".
If you vote for a compromise--you'll get compromised.

[rayra]

whatever, bigchoad - have a good time voting for Perot/ I mean Nader/ I mean McClintock. Bustamante the MECHa-man wins, it's YOUR fault.

[GW]

Fair enough and if Kennedy er Wilson er.. Arnold wins and then screws us, then it can be YOUR fault

[rayra]

More than Fair. I accept that charge.

How do you feel about Bush43 and the AWB Sunset - do you have similar Doom & Gloom theories about that (too)?

[GW]

Hey rayra, this will be fun!

First of all Bush is doing a fine job on the war on terrorism, though I'd like to see progress on the economy.
re: The AWB I opposed that from the start as a violation of our second amendment rights. Can I assume you support the continuation of the Assault Weapons Ban since you are backing an avowed supporter of it.
And, in case you've forgotten, whether or not the national AWB sunsets is a moot point here in CA. We have our own statewide AWB. Remember SB23? And do you remember the Roos-Roberti AWB that predated the 1994 AWB by 5 years?
Now since Arnold has already stated that he supports the AWB, what do you suppose the chances are of Arnold backing any repeal of SB 23?

As for the national AWB I fervently do hope for, for the sake of my brother and sister gunowners in less oppressed states that is is allowed to sunset.

I'm not a gloom and doomer by any stretch. Actually I'm rather hopeful. For the first time I have found a candidate that I can support without qualifications. Can you say the same for your candidate?

[GW]

Anybody there?

[twoblink]

The problem with Dems and Repubs shows up clearly in this election.

I vote libertarian for one reason and one reason only: the basic belief less government = more freedom.

Notice I don't bother naming the libertarian candidate? It makes no difference, anybody who's a libertarian believes that, and so I could care less what name is on the ballot.

Contrast that with voting for a personality in the Dems and the Repubs. They are all over the road map. "Hard conservative.. soft liberal.. Left winged. Right winged. Ultra left winged.. etc.." You'd think you were talking about building a plane with all those wings!

Vote libertarian..

Vote your principles and who you believe in. If more people did that, instead of trying to mitigate their losses, the right person WOULD win..

[El Rojo]

The thing people don't understand about California is it is not a logical or rational state. The people here are for the most part stupid. Look no further than the last election. Gray Davis, with horrible ratings and support, still won the election!!! Why do people think that even with a strong McClintock and no Arnold that he would have a chance? This state is liberal. If it came down to McClintock, Bustermante, or Davis, who do you think all of the liberals and the middle votes are going to go to? With that being said, Arnold is in the race. He is a moderate, which like it or not, wins elections. You don't win an election by solidifying your party, you win it by getting as much as your party together and then getting the voters in the middle. McClintock doesn't have the middle appeal that Arnold has.

I decided this morning that I am voting for Arnold. Why? I am voting my conscience. If I vote for McClintock, who in no way is going to pull enough in the middle and left votes to win, my vote goes to the spoiler that takes a vote away from the most likely choice. There is a reason all of the liberals want us to vote for McClintock. A vote for McClintock is effectively a vote for Bustermante. Sorry if I don't subscribe to the all or nothing campaign. We have been going all or nothing in this state for too long. We have nothing. Sure you are going to argue it is because no one votes their principle or whatever. Sorry this is a liberal state. It isn't a conservative state. A hopeless Davis won the last election! What makes you think another good conservative like McClintock, even with a good reputation and a much better campaign is going to be able to get all of those votes when there is a new third liberal choice in Bustermante?

So if I know my vote is going to split the party and result in a democrat getting elected, how can I call that voting my conscience? If you truly believe you have to vote your principle and vote for McClintock, go for it. I am going to deal with reality and vote for the most likely republican to win, even if he isn't my first choice.

Either way, Davis is leaving tomorrow. I am sure of it. Now who do we realistically want to replace him? Yeah yeah, if everyone voted for their "first choice" McClintock might win. Whatever, there are too many liberals in this state for that to happen. Deal with reality. If Arnold screws us up anymore, it can't be too much worse than what we got now. I say lets give the outsider a shot. Looking at our alternatives, what do we have to lose?

[GW]

Given the folks Arnold has surrounded himself with (Pete Wilson &Warren Buffet to name two) What do you think you'll be electing?
What makes you think Arnold is that much different than Bustamante or Davis?
What has he said that makes you think anything will get better if he is running the state?
As far as I'm concerned a vote for Arnold is a vote for Bustamante and Davis and the status quo.
We conservatives have been losing this state because we have tried to go the middle of the road, not because we have voted our core values.
Look at who the Republicans ran in the last 2 elections
AG Dan Lundgren--no friend to gun owners ran in 1998
and Bill Simon, who ran the most inept campaign ever in 2002
Neither of these were hard core conservatives
Arnold at best is a compromise and conservatives have gotten screwed every time they try compromise. the left sees it correctly as weakness and hammers us every time.
Don't abandon your core values for expediency
Arnold is the spoiler here Arnold is wrecking the chances of getting a true conservative in the governor's office
Don't throw your vote away.
Vote for the best man
Vote for McClintock

[El Rojo]

Neither of these were hard core conservativesWhat wasn't hard core conservative about Simon? Oh I forgot, his fundamental belief in the 2nd Amendment, his belief in pro-life, and his hands off business attitude. I forgot that those are the building blocks of liberalism. Maybe the reason bigchoad doesn't think Simon was a hard core conservative is because his campaign sucked and he blew what should have been the easiest election in history. But was Simon completely at fault? How soon people forget the primary election where the very competant campaigner Grey Davis put all of his energy into defeating Riordan, a moderate republican. Who did the democrats want in the race against Grey? Ah, it was Bill Simon. Why Bill Simon? Because he was way too conservative for California. The same way too conservative for California candidate taht bigchoad says is not a "hard core conservative".

Bigchoad look at reality, this is not a conservative state. It won't be until a bunch of liberal die or move out. We tried electing a "hard core conservative" in the last election. In addition to his horrible campaign, he was still not electible in this liberal state. Now you expect McClintock to suddenly bridge the gap? You think there are enough conservative voters in this state now to split the vote and still come out on top of the liberals who outvoted us by 200,000 votes in the last election?

This fuzzy math boggles my mind. I made the mistake of believing in the people of California last election. I was severely disappointed. No matter how much it made sense to get rid of Grey Davis, there were 200,000 stupid liberals out there that didn't agree. Do you think these liberals suddenly changed their minds and are now passing up the liberal alternate Bustermante, the moderate alternate Schwarzenegger, and voting for the "hard core conservative" McClintock? Am I the only one who sees this theory that Bigchoad and many others are supporting as being completely void of any foundation in the realities of California politics? MCCLINTOCK DOESN'T STAND A CHANCE! Just like Simon didn't stand a chance. They are good people in a horrible state. Davis wanted Riordan out in the last primary just likes he wants Schwarzenegger out in this election. How does he do that? He splits the Republicans by appealling the most likely contender as "too liberal" and not a "true republican". Of course the good conservatives of this state agree and they vote their "principles". And what happens? The same thing all over again. A "hard core conservative" loses because this state is liberal!!! Wake up people. Look where we live. We are not in a good conservative state!!! We are in enemy territory. Learn from our mistakes in the past.

The only chance we have to get any ground in this state is to get moderates to vote for a republican candidate. If you truly believe these crucial moderates and liberal converts are suddenly going to go far right and skip Bustamante and Schwarzenegger and vote for someone that shares nearly none of their social views, you are sorely misled and/or deluded. Schwarzenegger has the moderate appeal to get the conservative vote and the crucial middle of the road vote. McClintock does not. I don't see how it can get much clearer.

As far as Schwarzenegger's policies go, he is advocating the repeal of the car tax and he is not running on a platform for new taxes against the rich and alcohol and tobacco (Bustamante is). Who is more likely to decide that Californian gun owners ought to start paying a 5 cent bullet tax to pay for gun shot victim's hospital bills? A man who says that we need less govedrnment and wants to repeal the car tax or the man who wants to raise taxes and continue to spend that money on illegal aliens? To say there is no difference between Schwarzenegger and Bustamante is completely insane and devoid of any factual basis. We have a chance with Arnold. True he is not the ideal "hard core conservative", but we have seen Grey Davis' voting record in the last month. We know what Bustermante wants to do. When Arnold says he wants to cut out big government, why wouldn't you want to go with that? Why would you say you support going for the guy that has no chance because you don't see a difference in those three candidates? There is no factual support for such a claim. Schwarzenegger is the best choice if you are tired of politics as usual in California. McClintock is the "ideal" choice, but he has no chance of winning here. If enough of us accept this fact and vote for Schwarzenegger today (it is now 1209, October 7), we have a good chance of telling the politicians that we will not accept the status quo.

Californians, if you haven't voted already, make the right decision today. Vote with reality. Schwarzenegger is better than Cruz or Grey. Don't fool yourself to think otherwise. Look at the past, a "hard core conservative" candidate has not taken this state in the last several years, not in the last election, and he will not take it this election. A moderate conservative can. Arnold Schwarzenegger is that moderate conservative. Don't throw away your vote on October 7th.

[Sergeant Bob]

Davis only beat Simon 47% to 42%, despite a poorly run campaign, allegations of fraud against him just before the election (which I believe were proven false, after the election), little support from the Repugnican party (one visit by Bush with a tepid endorsement). On Bush's next visit to Ca., he steered clear of Simon.
I believe a conservative could win California, if most of the starstruck Arnold supporters would just realize he is not a moderate Republican, but a moderate Liberal, and McClintock is a h311 of alot better man than either Simon, or Schwarzenwhatever (Davis Lite).

[Derek Zeanah]

I decided this morning that I am voting for Arnold. Why? I am voting my conscience.Then you're getting what you deserve out of this election, as is everyone else who looks at Arnold and sees a mirror of their conscience. :(

(I lived in Thousand Oaks for more than a dozen years. Thank God I left -- would you believe that even Florida is better than Southern California?!?!?!?!?!)

As long as the focus is on "who can realistically win this," then you'll never elect a good candidate. Throw Stalin, Hitler, and Thomas Jefferson together in an election and the media will produce polling numbers that show that only Stalin and Hitler are "viable." Which do you vote for? After all, you wouldn't want your vote "thrown away." And as bad as Hitler is, you know in your heart that a vote for Jefferson is really a vote for Stalin. Right?

(If I sound bitter it's because I spent a few years fighting in the trenches of local politics in Thousand Oaks and Ventura County. Death threats against my sister, harrassment from the sheriff, phones tapped, recall petitions not certified by the county for months until the time limit had coincidentally run out, bankrupt politicians getting elected then owning 3 houses and a plane by the next election (all outside the county so they didn't have to be reported), developers paying for daily limo services for county supervisors, the editor of the LA Times hanging out with the local political elites and voting as you'd guess, attempted break-ins and vandalism to our cars, ... I used to think that if we could just get good people to run and endure the endless amounts of crap an honest politician needs to put up with to try and bring the system down it would be enough. Now I'm coming to believe it's the people's fault -- when given a solid choice they won't vote in their own best interest. You do know that if Arnold dropped out McClintock has enough votes to get into office, right? I'm guessing you don't care, as long as the Liberal In Charge has a (R) after his name. :( :( :( )

[Sergeant Bob]

I don't think any of these Arnold backers will have a thing to say against the NRA for compromising their principles now will they?

[Skunkabilly]

In a world of compromise...

[Maxinquaye]

Well, I hit the polls on my way to work here in San Diego. I had planned on voting Arnold to "send a message" to Sacremento (as John & Ken put it) despite believing McClintock to be the better man.

But you know...I just couldn't do it. McClintock got my ballot and I've decided that in the future I'll vote for whomever I think will do the best job. To do otherwise cripples Democracy. When you think about it, before the invention of highly accurate polls, no one could *really* know what was going to go down on election day. People really DID vote for the best man.

I think we need to get back to that somehow.

[shooterx10]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-8/45733/P9100034.JPG

[OF]

Polls show that if it wasn't for Ahnold, McClintock would be crushing both Grey-Out and Bustamexican.

There's a spoiler in this election all right...but it ain't McClintock. Ahnold has money and fame, now he's looking for power and CA is about to bend over and give it to him.

- Gabe

[EWTHeckman]

I was just checking out the Fox news site. They're saying that an estimated 5 to 6 percent of the vote going to Arnold is people who would rather vote for McClintock.

:banghead:

If McC loses by less than that margin, there will be some VERY bothered people! :cuss:

[Bill Hook]

Why doesn't that ballot also have Spanish, Farsi, Hindi, and a dozen other languages on it besides Chinese and (horror of horrors) English? :rolleyes:

I'm suing. The election is unfair. ;)

[Dorrin79]

well, I'm not a Californian, but if I were...

I'd take Ah-nold over Davis or Boostamante, McClintock over all three.

[Shalako]

I am right in line with what El Rojo is saying. I'll even take it one step farther. McClintock would only be able to lead half of the state(my half). The other half would hate his guts.

I'm trying to think of the populace of California as my children and I am hiring a governess for them. Most of my kids are kind of spacy daydreamers who need a little room and flexibility to operate. Now do I really want the strict taskmaster of McClintock to hammer them into shape, even though they do need some discipline? I don't think that would be the best approach to these kids. They need a leader that they will follow that shows them how to lead a more disciplined life but enjoying it along the way. That guy is Arnold.

Davis and Bustamonte would be smoking weed with them out in the garage and encouraging putting off potty training for a couple more years.

Arnold is the guy.

[GW]

El Rojo is right that I misjudged Bill Simon's conservative credentials
But, Rojo, I must have missed Bill Simons's pro second amendment speech, (though I do seem to recall a high NRA rating) However, as you said, he lost . What I missed in your commentary, though, was how close he came despite his totally inept campaign. What I'm hoping for is the conservatives, the same ones who have sat out elections in the past because campaigns and candidates like Simon were the best the Republicans could offer, might come out and vote. We shall see if that works out or not.

Bigchoad look at reality, this is not a conservative state. It won't be until a bunch of liberal die or move out.

Or until conservatives stop appeasing the liberals, stop compromising and stop worrying about "who can win" as opposed to who is the best man.

Arnold knows nothing about economics
Arnold knows nothing about CA gun laws
Arnold has professed his belief in the AWB, Brady bill and other "sensible gun control laws"
Arnold says he is going to get $$ from the tribal casinos, but has no plan and short of putting roadblocks up at the entryway to tribal lands.
Arnold is a puppet dancing to Pete Wilson's tune
I see reality, El Rojo and I see that Arnold is not the man I want to run California.

[Combat-wombat]

NOOOO!!! Arnie won!:cuss:

[El Rojo]

Or until conservatives stop appeasing the liberals, stop compromising and stop worrying about "who can win" as opposed to who is the best man.You can go to the PRK Secretary of State's website and see that 43.7% are registered Democrats and 35.3% are registered Republican. 16% decline to state and 5% goes to the other party. As you can see, 35.3% Republican is nowhere near a majority. We are the clearly the minority in this state. Even if all republicans might have voted for McClintock, we would still have to convince another 15% of the liberals that McClintock is what Californians want. I just don't see that happening.

Regardless of that possibility, we had three major choices today. As I predicted, the majority of these swing voters in the middle were not going to go over to the "hard core conservative" McClintock. They do not agree with his social views and they probably won't agree with his social views anytime soon. Think about your own preferences. Many THR members would not compromise their "principles" and vote for Schwartzenegger. Why do you think these liberals are going to do what you won't do and switch over to the other side? What matters is the middle. And most people in the middle don't have the same principles and resolve that the far left and the far right have. They stay in the middle for a reason. So to expect them to suddenly vear away from the middle and become "hard core" or radicals is unreasonable. They will stay in the middle. Who was in the middle? Arnold was and Arnold has won with resounding support.

For those of you who voted your principle, I respect that. I however was tired of the all or nothing mentality. Today Californians did not get nothing. We didn't get it all either, but we at least have a chance. Some of you don't share my enthusiasm and some of you even see no difference between Schwarzenegger and Bustamante/Davis. For those of you who just watched the acceptance speech, there is a difference. When Schwarzenegger says it is time for responsible fiscal management to return, that is a far change from the status quo. Of course I think he is being a little to idealistic in saying he will represent everyone. He can't represent us and the VPC at the same time. However, we know we have a slight chance and maybe even a great chance than we think than keeping Davis/Bustamante. I personally am very pleased with the results of the election and I am finally happy to get a victory in California. I know some of you won't agree with me and that is fine. The important thing is Gray is gone and now we have a chance at some change.

[GW]

On the other side of the coin it would appear that a lot of liberals got conservative enough to oust Davis.
Equally, in the past I voted as you have done now and reaped a bitter harvest for it, hence my passion to vote for the best man (IMHO).

At any rate, Arnold seems to have won and now we must wait and see what will happen.
I do note with some concern the news report where Arnold's campaign manager said "The first thing Arnold will do is TRY to repeal the car tax hike."

Well, we'll see what happens

[yy]

I'm sure the Democrats will try some kind of gimmick, maybe another recall. I might support another recall. Maybe Arnold if he reneges on campaign promises. Hows that for a message to the rest of the nation?

But let it be said here first...

RECALL FEINSTEIN FOR FIREARM HYPOCRACY

RECALL FEINSTEIN FOR CIVIL (SELF DEFENSE) RIGHTS VIOLATION

[El Rojo]

After the last election, I do got a bitter taste Bigchoad. I was sick that Davis won and who I thought was a good candidate that had a horrible campaign lost (Simon). I think regardless of who we voted for today, Californians can be a little excited tonight to see such a dismal failure such as Gray Davis has been kicked out for his bungling. That he has finally been held accountable for his pandering to special interests and people who don't make up the backbone of the California working class. Hell if nothing else, had it worked out the other way around, Riordan might be governor today. Now I might share some of the people's disappointment with a picture like that. What I like about Arnold is that he has a pretty clean slate. Sure he hasn't really stood for much, but that also means he hasn't completely stood against us. Sure he might end up following the mold and we might lose some. But at least having a chance again feels really good. And yes I will expect your sympathy later if I find out I was wrong. :)

[GW]

Fair enough, El Rojo ;)

[twoblink]

yy..

PLEASE don't get started on a recall for Feinstein, because then, I'd call you a hypocrite if you didn't recall Boxer, Hernandez, Thompson, etc.. The list would stretch for MILES of those who needed to be recalled :cuss:

I've always said, I'm willing to pay for the dump fees if you can get all of them in the dump truck :cuss: :banghead: :fire:

Hmm..

Maybe _I_ should run for governor next time!! Everybody at least knows where I stand on the 2nd Amendment!!

:cuss:

The PRK is no better and now they will say it's because there's an (R) next to the governor's name :cuss: :barf:

[4570Rick]

Recall Fineswine for the desert protection act which bans us from most of the desert now while her hubby's co. makes a fortune mining.



5.



4.



3.



2.



1.



But it's for the tortoise.:fire: :banghead: :cuss: :barf:

[ambidextrous1]

Okay, it's over, and I'm proud of my vote. Can those who voted for Arnold say the same thing?

Don't blame me when things go from bad to worse; I tried...